McDermott and Beane Have to Go

[CorkScrewHill]

I have enjoyed these last 5 years of football and am happy that we have a tandem that works to ensure the culture and the talent can put the team in a position to win a Super Bowl. For the last 3 years if things had gone differently they were good enough to get the Lomabardi. As Josh stated, only one team feels good at the end of the year and quite often it is not the best team from that year. It is the NFL and things happen, and this year lots happened.

 

It seems only a few weeks ago people on the board where saying no matter what happened they would understand given what the team went through .. apparently many were not of that mindset.

 

My wish list is 1) Improved OLine; 2) Faster reads and throws from Josh. Burrow was not touched in part because he threw it in around 2 seconds on average while Josh was at over 3 seconds. 3) Another DL rusher.

[Ray Stonada]

If anyone thinks the Bills would fire the head coach or general manager after a 14-4 season

 

Where they tied for the best regular season in team history

 

Despite tons of adversity and injuries

 

You are delusional, sorry 

 

 

 

 

[UKBillFan]

My feeling is McDermott and Frasier need to go. The Bills are stuck in the 2000s with a defensive set up when the rest of the NFL has moved on. As Simms said, a lot of blame is understandably directed at Frasier but McDermott is a defensive mind too. Two of three key coaching positions are defensive and they couldn’t work out how to play the game. And this is after the draft has been handed to that side of the ball to supposedly improve year after year.

 

In addition, as I have said elsewhere, the McDermott led Bills have showed up woefully unprepared in all sides of the ball in at least one game a year since he’s arrived. Can’t say the same for the Chiefs. With a QB in place, the same has barely happened to the 49ers. If the Bills want to be the best preparation is the key and, under McDermott, they drop the ball - figuratively and literally - too often.

 

I would keep Beane and Dorsey but with caveats. Beane has to be prepared to let McDermott go, which I’m doubtful about. And saying keep Dorsey is dependent on how a seemingly creaking relationship with Diggs can be patched up. But the focus at OP has been wrong for too long. It has to change.

[John from Riverside]

3 hours ago, Joe Ferguson said:

We should. Eagles are destined to get a ring again.

How many years did it take Joe?
 

[UKBillFan]

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

How many years did it take Joe?
 

If they win it, quicker than the Bills?

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, UKBillFan said:

If they win it, quicker than the Bills?

That’s really not the point do you wanna bust down a 13 and three team hope that it gets better then realize that it’s not going to because they have to learn all new systems and schemes and by the time that it’s over Josh Allen has wasted his youth?

 

The only time that you bust down a team is when they show regression 13 and three team did not show progression. It needs to learn how to win in the playoffs.

[Gregg]

Beane and McDermott aren't going anywhere. Frazier should be gone. Dorsey probably gets another year.

[Bill from NYC]

On 1/22/2023 at 8:28 PM, thenorthremembers said:

Yeah this is just stupid.   They dont "have to go" because they arent going anywhere.    They've made the playoffs in 5 of the 6 years, won a higher percentage of regular season games than any coach and GM combo in Bills history, and drafted a franchise QB.   Pretty sure they arent going anywhere.

Yes, and instead of protecting him they traded up for another first round corner and consistently failed to provide adequate weapons and especially protection for him.

 

I too am for keeping Beane and ousting McDermott. Imo, McDermott is popular imo because of:

 

1) Josh Allen (although McDermott lucked out with Josh after trading the Mahomes pick and drafting a corner). Josh won us lots of games.

 

2) Look at the stumblebums that he followed. My grandmother would look pretty good at head coach if she replaced Rex Ryan, etc. 

 

3) His use of the term "process" (which he stole from Nick Saban) made him sound like some kind of sage, which he is not imo. Fans bought into this jargon. 

 

I for one believe that McDermott has far more control over the team than Beane, and this isn't that unusual. Kirwan on Sirius said that when he was GM, Coach Carroll was his "boss." 

I am NOT saying that McDermott is the worst coach in the NFL. I do however think that replacing him would probably be a smart move for the Bills.

 

As always, jmo.

[BBills_88]

Hmmmmm!!!!

 

What did it look like before they were hired. 

 

Let me think, oh it was a  17 year playoff drought. Bills were bottom feeders,  the highlights of the season was hoping to be NE and the draft.

 

Give them some slack.

Edited January 24, 2023 by BBills_88

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

That’s really not the point do you wanna bust down a 13 and three team hope that it gets better then realize that it’s not going to because they have to learn all new systems and schemes and by the time that it’s over Josh Allen has wasted his youth?

 

The only time that you bust down a team is when they show regression 13 and three team did not show progression. It needs to learn how to win in the playoffs.

Is the OL better? Are the WRs better? 

 

The idea is to protect your future HOF QB John. It would be really cool if Josh didn't have to be the Bills leading rusher, no?

 

McDermott should be held accountable.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

Shiv the mofos?

[Gregg]

Just now, Bill from NYC said:

Is the OL better? Are the WRs better? 

 

The idea is to protect your future HOF QB John. It would be really cool if Josh didn't have to be the Bills leading rusher, no?

 

McDermott should be held accountable.

 

Beane is the one who should be held accountable for the roster. He better address the lines this offseason especially the OL.

[McBean]

The amount of delusion on here is insanity.

 

Eagles stunk 3 years ago and now about to go to the Bowl.

 

Cincy? 2-14 2 years ago and now are a freakin powerhouse with twice the talent as us.

 

Beane and McDermott probably need to both go, but I want McDermott more between the two.

 

I think McClappy has had greater influence on draft picks than Beane…so hard to assess BBB with the clapper next to him 24/7.

[Bill from NYC]

1 minute ago, Gregg said:

 

Beane is the one who should be held accountable for the roster. He better address the lines this offseason especially the OL.

Perhaps but I don't think so. As I said above, I strongly believe that McDermott has control over the draft.

 

As always, jmo.

[Gregg]

 

[Bill from NYC]

8 minutes ago, BBills_88 said:

Hmmmmm!!!!

 

What did it look like before they were hired. 

 

Let me think, oh it was a  17 year playoff drought. Bills were bottom feeders,  the highlights of the season was hoping to be NE and the draft.

 

Give them some slack.

If they didn't luck into Josh Allen (after trading the Mahomes pick for a corner) they would have probably went another 17 years or more.

[BillsVet]

12 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Is the OL better? Are the WRs better? 

 

The idea is to protect your future HOF QB John. It would be really cool if Josh didn't have to be the Bills leading rusher, no?

 

McDermott should be held accountable.

 

After last off-season, if the owners were engaged, I wondered if they might ask McCoach how he was protecting their quarter-billion investment in Josh Allen.  

 

Sadly, I don't think they're engaged given Kim's health and second, because the money is flowing. 

 

Seeing Josh plunge into the line and take off running like he did down the stretch tell me no one is pushing them on what should be a significant concern.  

[BBills_88]

13 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

If they didn't luck into Josh Allen (after trading the Mahomes pick for a corner) they would have probably went another 17 years or more.

What draft pick is a lock to be good, we saw heisman trophy winners, #1 and 1st round draft picks not pan out in the NFL , this front office hit on numerous picks.

 

People act like they new Mahomes was going to be great. He did not have a first round projection. He was drafted by a QB Guru.

[Amorgus]

I have no faith in Beane anymore. For the folks that think Josh will keep us from a drought, he's already had two serious arm injuries because Beane refuses to give him any protection. If they managed to cripple one of the most physically gifted QBs of all time then the while front office should be executed on the 50 yard line. 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Amorgus

[Low Positive]

On 1/22/2023 at 9:37 PM, FrenchConnection said:

You're not wrong. Cincinnati built an actual contender in two off seasons. THEY WERE 2-14 IN 2019!!!. They did it without an actual GM and almost no scouting department. They just drafted proven winners in the skill positions. We are already past the point of no return. The Bills will never win a SB with this group. That window is closed. The Bengals are the class of the AFC because they are full of winners. We've got a bunch of losers with "traits." 

I don’t even agree with myself anymore…

[mannc]

12 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

That’s really not the point do you wanna bust down a 13 and three team hope that it gets better then realize that it’s not going to because they have to learn all new systems and schemes and by the time that it’s over Josh Allen has wasted his youth?

 

The only time that you bust down a team is when they show regression 13 and three team did not show progression. It needs to learn how to win in the playoffs.

This team is not progressing.  Other teams in the AFCE and the conference are.  Poor drafting is catching up with the Bills; they are drafting replacement level guys, while our competition is drafting studs. Without Josh Allen, this team is a bottom feeder, battling it out with Houston.  Of course, without Josh, Beane and McDermott are unemployed…

Edited January 24, 2023 by mannc

[colin]

i honestly think the optimal move would be to replace the whole FO with better people right now.  i don't think that's in the cards, and probably not even possible.

 

next best would be to keep the non coaching FO, and ditch the coaches.  again, i think mcclaps is the boss at one bills drive and no shot they can him.

 

next ideal would be to keep mcclap, fore both OC and DC and bring in someone good (reich, roman?) and either have mcd run the d or bring in a new DC.

 

I don't think a HC stays and fires everyone else.  so it kinda leaves us with the perfect scape goat play, mcd fires frazier and keeps dorsey (dorsey might deserve another chance, i dunno).

 

now, the worst possible outcome, because it would be so cowardly, is not standing pat, it is firing the OC and keeping frazier.  that's what rex ryan did when he fired roman after we lost to the jets in an absolute shoot out.

[Joe Ferguson]

4 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

How many years did it take Joe?
 

Less than the Bills that's for sure. How many Super Bowl rings will we get as long as McDermott is coaching this team? Answer....0. 

[Ray Stonada]

It’s funny how everyone agrees Frazier should be fired and Dorsey gets another year, when Buffalo’s defense held the Bengals to their average while the offense scored 10 points. Makes zero sense. 
 

The players lost the game, I don’t think it was in the scheme to leave Chase uncovered or Josh to miss a wide open Diggs for a TD on the first drive, or Gabe to drop the long ball.

 

Sometimes it’s not your day.

 

Edited January 24, 2023 by Ray Stonada

[Jrb1979]

On 1/22/2023 at 9:11 PM, Beck Water said:

 

They got outcoached in the Eagles game.  IMO.

 

Your mileage may vary, that’s fine

McD got outcoached again when it matters.  IMO McD needs to hire new coordinators and let them do their job. 

[clayboy54]

9 minutes ago, Ray Stonada said:

It’s funny how everyone agrees Frazier should be fired and Dorsey gets another year, when Buffalo’s defense held the Bengals to their average while the offense scored 10 points. Makes zero sense. 
 

The players lost the game, I don’t think it was in the scheme to leave Chase uncovered or Josh to miss a wide open Diggs for a TD on the first drive, or Gabe to drop the long ball.

 

Sometimes it’s not your day.

 

I agree. Dorsey's offense was disjunct, inconsistent and underachieving all year long. He failed to keep JA focused and on point in many games. I appreciate the willingness to let the guy learn on the job, but since when do you learn a new job at the highest level first? Plus, I really don't like his arrogance and temper. It started with the time he smashed his Surface tablet, or whatever that was. He was borderline out-of-control after that.

 

I always hate to see a young, promising guy go. (see Wyatt Teller) I also know that you have JA in his prime for only a short number of years. You have to surround him with the best players AND the very best coaches. So, Dorsey needs to take a seat, either here or elsewhere and learn from an experienced OC.

[Jrb1979]

6 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

If anyone thinks the Bills would fire the head coach or general manager after a 14-4 season

 

Where they tied for the best regular season in team history

 

Despite tons of adversity and injuries

 

You are delusional, sorry 

 

 

 

 

Then they better start adapting to the way the league is heading. Winning with defense is an old school way of thinking. The teams left all have offensive minded coaching. 

[Ray Stonada]

1 minute ago, Jrb1979 said:

Then they better start adapting to the way the league is heading. Winning with defense is an old school way of thinking. The teams left all have offensive minded coaching. 

Our team already throws it downfield more than anyone in the NFL. They’re hardly “old school.”

 

We could use a return to fundamentals more than a new offensive scheme. Better blocking, rushing and screen game. 

 

We’re already great at making low percentage plays on offense. Make it easier and try the hard stuff less often.

 

 

[Jrb1979]

2 minutes ago, Ray Stonada said:

Our team already throws it downfield more than anyone in the NFL. They’re hardly “old school.”

 

We could use a return to fundamentals more than a new offensive scheme. Better blocking, rushing and screen game. 

 

We’re already great at making low percentage plays on offense. Make it easier and try the hard stuff less often.

 

 

That's been said for the past few years. What I don't get is the first game of the season they used a lot of short quick passes and it was working. Then they stopped doing it. 

[Rocbillsfan1]

Coming in to say I agree. We’ve hit mcdermott’s ceiling. And it’s more important now than ever to pair Allen with an offensive minded coach and get a system going that works for the next 5 years. it’s time to RIP the Bandaid off now that is this rot in the organization. I get everyone loves McDermott and he’s a great guy but it’s time for him to go. 

[Ray Stonada]

3 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

That's been said for the past few years. What I don't get is the first game of the season they used a lot of short quick passes and it was working. Then they stopped doing it. 

Yup. If you rewatch the “perfect” playoff game against the Pats you see Josh hitting Singletary on checkdowns over and over for 6-10 yards before we open up and go deep. It was unstoppable. 

[PepeSilvia]

9 hours ago, Ray Stonada said:

If anyone thinks the Bills would fire the head coach or general manager after a 14-4 season

 

Where they tied for the best regular season in team history

 

Despite tons of adversity and injuries

 

You are delusional, sorry 

 

 

 

 

14-4 against some good teams, some not so good teams and some really poor teams

 

Theyre not beating any great teams the way this roster is presently constructed

 

If they played the Bengals 10 times, we get blown out, man handled on both sides of the ball and out coached all ten times

 

What would the 49ers Oline/dline or Eagles Oline/dline due to the Bills?!

 

too many picks invested on the defensive line with no return

 

not enough invested on the Oline or receivers.

 

6 going on 7 years here. It’s a common theme 

 

[Ray Stonada]

53 minutes ago, PepeSilvia said:

Theyre not beating any great teams the way this roster is presently constructed

 

If they played the Bengals 10 times, we get blown out, man handled on both sides of the ball and out coached all ten times

 

I disagree with you completely on both of these points. We beat Kansas City THIS YEAR, in a game both teams wanted badly. And there is no chance the Bengals beat us 10 out of 10. ZERO chance.

[seattlebillsfan]

5 hours ago, Amorgus said:

I have no faith in Beane anymore. For the folks that think Josh will keep us from a drought, he's already had two serious arm injuries because Beane refuses to give him any protection. If they managed to cripple one of the most physically gifted QBs of all time then the while front office should be executed on the 50 yard line. 

This is the 258 million dollar elephant in the corner that I hope is getting serious attention, starting immediately: how much damage has already been done to Josh Allen’s right elbow, what is the plan for sorting out whether rest alone is enough or if something surgical is required, what are the implications for his off-season depending on which scenario he is in, etc. There is precedent in another sport for a late-blooming super-talent to dominate at super-human levels for a few years and retire at age 30 due to elbow pain; his name was Sandy Koufax….

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, seattlebillsfan said:

This is the 258 million dollar elephant in the corner that I hope is getting serious attention, starting immediately: how much damage has already been done to Josh Allen’s right elbow, what is the plan for sorting out whether rest alone is enough or if something surgical is required, what are the implications for his off-season depending on which scenario he is in, etc. There is precedent in another sport for a late-blooming super-talent to dominate at super-human levels for a few years and retire at age 30 due to elbow pain; his name was Sandy Koufax….

Pitching UCL injuries have almost no relation to QBing UCL injuries. It's an entirely different throwing motion and QBs who have had UCL injuries historically have not required surgery. Allen will be fine. https://www.jshoulderelbow.org/article/S1058-2746(10)00246-6/pdf#:~:text=Conclusion-,UCL injuries of the elbow are uncommon injuries in professional,to return to competitive play.

 

Sandy Koufax is the opposite of a comp.

[MILFHUNTER#518]

I don't know if this has been discussed upthread, if it has I apologize I do not have the time to go through 8 pages but why not Kliff Kingsbury?

 

Young, progressive, offensively minded coach with head coaching experience. Was a QB in college. I would think if they are going to look at change, worth kicking the tires at least no? 

 

I am a Sean Payton man, but Kliff would not require us to cede our #1 pick and he would not cost 20-25 million dollars a year.

[seattlebillsfan]

4 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Pitching UCL injuries have almost no relation to QBing UCL injuries. It's an entirely different throwing motion and QBs who have had UCL injuries historically have not required surgery. Allen will be fine. https://www.jshoulderelbow.org/article/S1058-2746(10)00246-6/pdf#:~:text=Conclusion-,UCL injuries of the elbow are uncommon injuries in professional,to return to competitive play.

 

Sandy Koufax is the opposite of a comp.

 

Hope so!!!

[PauleeeWalnuts]

9 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

Then they better start adapting to the way the league is heading. Winning with defense is an old school way of thinking. The teams left all have offensive minded coaching. 

One of the reasons Rex is on ESPN instead of the sidelines, couldn’t lose that old mentality 

[billsfan3482]

 

 

In all this back and forth, I think to my self. Not if, but how many SB's would Belichick win with Allen and his defensive schemes? Or what would McVay or Kyle Shanahan scheme up with a QB like Allen.   HELL Dan Campbell would of lit a FIRE under these guys on Sunday. His players played hard this year and they  weren't on a path to the super bowl. 

 

We had a chance to go to the superbowl and BOTH sides of the ball didn't show up??? ***** that. No more chances. 

After the first half performance we should be hearing stories of mcdormett at half time  laying into the players and demanding they wake up and player there game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2023 by billsfan3482