We are in HC purgatory

[Dr.Sack]

DL and OL are 50% of the battle in the NFL. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

10 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said:

My favorites so far are he is in danger of being the next Marvin Lewis, the guy who never won a playoff game.

 

Or stuck with Tony Dungy 2.0- The HOF, Super Bowl Winning Coach

 

or just like Mike Tomlin the Super Bowl Winning Coach...

 

My lord.

Dungy 2.0 of course refers to his inability to win a SB with Tampa and the fact Gruden won the SB first year with the same players. 

Dungy failed for several years with Manning too. It took Manning refusing to leave the field on 4th down when Dungy was going to punt to finally make the SB, where they beat one of the worst SB teams in NFL history.  

[Buffalo03]

2 minutes ago, Blazman11 said:

Yes I would. With Hall and Kelce. Absolutely. But you keep changing your argument. Reid’s 6th season was 14 years ago. Your argument is it takes a coach 20 years on the job to win it all. 
 

‘McDermott has done some awesome things. He was absolutely the right coach at the time he was hired. These guys supposedly put in 80 hour weeks during the season. McDermott has been in football for a very long time. The time for him to learn should’ve ended after the AFC Championship loss. And while he’s improved in many areas he still comes up woefully short in game planning and execution during the playoffs.  

I meant 6th season as Chiefs HC. Pay better attention before telling me I'm changing my argument. My argument is not that it takes 20 years for a coach to win it all. It's that sometimes, even the greatest coaches take longer than others

Edited January 23, 2023 by Buffalo03

[CEN-CAL17]

41 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

We are stuck and there is no way out. Pegula is not going to get rid of Beane and McDermott.  McDermott has done too much for the franchise and the city to be canned. So we will waste another year on Dungy 2.0 only to come up short again. We are now on three years wasted of the best QB play this team has ever had. And nothing to show for it. Next year will be four and the cap situation will only keep getting worse. 

This team needed a teacher and a father figure. Now they need a mercenary assassin. Give Josh Sean Payton or Jim Harbaugh and Bills win the SuperBowl next year. 

Its not going to happen so we had just be prepared for another year of this crap. When McDermott says we will learn and grow from this I hope some reporter has the balls to say when do you stop learning and winning instead?

McD needs to grab Reich or even Greg Roman. Set a standard of being able to run the ball with Play Action.

 

Defensively… it’s just the scheme. Which probably won’t change cause of McD.

 

Lond story short, Josh Allen can’t win in this situation. Offense sucks, scheme sucks, OL sucks, no real weapons outside Diggs. Where it should be the exact opposite. Imagine JA on the 49ers!

[CoudyBills]

1 minute ago, Baba Booey said:

Dude, Seahawks was the chin coaching 

Yep, my bad

[Roundybout]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Dungy 2.0 of course refers to his inability to win a SB with Tampa and the fact Gruden won the SB first year with the same players. 

Dungy failed for several years with Manning too. It took Manning refusing to leave the field on 4th down when Dungy was going to punt to finally make the SB, where they beat one of the worst SB teams in NFL history.  

 

Ok, where is our Gruden wandering around?

[Donuts and Doritos]

He's Marty Schottenheimer, great most of the season, but comes up short in the playoffs.

 

Hopefully we don't wait too long to realize this like the Chargers did when he coaches Rivers & company.

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

44 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

This is 100% correct.  

 

McD is to Bflo as Tomlin is to Pittsburgh.

 

"Good enough" is good enough.

 

You do know that Tomlin has a SB ring and no losing season in 18 years correct? What HC is coming in and beating that? 

[PBF81]

38 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said:

This is 100% correct.  

 

McD is to Bflo as Tomlin is to Pittsburgh.

 

"Good enough" is good enough.

Marvin Lewis with Cinci.  

 

[Buffalo03]

4 minutes ago, Blazman11 said:

Yes I would. With Hall and Kelce. Absolutely. But you keep changing your argument. Reid’s 6th season was 14 years ago. Your argument is it takes a coach 20 years on the job to win it all. 
 

‘McDermott has done some awesome things. He was absolutely the right coach at the time he was hired. These guys supposedly put in 80 hour weeks during the season. McDermott has been in football for a very long time. The time for him to learn should’ve ended after the AFC Championship loss. And while he’s improved in many areas he still comes up woefully short in game planning and execution during the playoffs.  

I acknowledged numerous times it took him over 20 years to win his first, in what way does that make you think I would go back to his 6th year in Philly when he clearly didn't win it then and by the way, if you fired him after his 6th year in KC, you may not get that Super Bowl he helped you win in year 7 or get back to it again in year 8

3 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

He's Marty Schottenheimer, great most of the season, but comes up short in the playoffs.

 

Hopefully we don't wait too long to realize this like the Chargers did when he coaches Rivers & company.

 

Marty Schottenheimer was 5-13 in the playoffs. McDermott is 4-5

[DuckyBoys]

lets be honest they are riding the Josh Allen train  With Keenum we win 4 or 5 games with this roster  KC didnt look dramatically diff w Mahomes crippled nor w Chad Henne  There roster is solid and with that O line they could still complete  We have weaksauce defense that gets exposed every playoffs and a offense that is too dependant on the qb to make spectacular plays

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

Sean McShottenheimer 

[bobobonators]

Im fine with McD being our HC as long as Frazier is gone, AND McD acknowledges he is the HC and not the DC of this team. That means he hires someone who may change the DNA of this defense - which is what we need.
 

Part of being a great leader is recognizing what and who to delegate things to. 
 

Im also very unsure of Dorsey. Id be willing to give him one more year. But Frazier has to go. 
 

Beane needs to speak to how we have invested so many resources to the DL and they’re so underwhelming. 

[LABILLBACKER]

8 minutes ago, CEN-CAL17 said:

McD needs to grab Reich or even Greg Roman. Set a standard of being able to run the ball with Play Action.

 

Defensively… it’s just the scheme. Which probably won’t change cause of McD.

 

Lond story short, Josh Allen can’t win in this situation. Offense sucks, scheme sucks, OL sucks, no real weapons outside Diggs. Where it should be the exact opposite. Imagine JA on the 49ers!

Josh on the Niners would be multiple Lombardis. I would love for Reich to take over for Dorsey and we need a new dynamic DC willing to use man coverage more. But like the word purgatory,  nothing will change.  

[jcamm1966]

9 minutes ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

He's Marty Schottenheimer, great most of the season, but comes up short in the playoffs.

 

Hopefully we don't wait too long to realize this like the Chargers did when he coaches Rivers & company.

 

Marvin Lewis clone

[Donuts and Doritos]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Marty Schottenheimer was 5-13 in the playoffs. McDermott is 4-5

 

Right, give it time. There's always next year (AFC game KC dominated), & next year (13 seconds), & next year (Cincy dominates) & next year & next year. By the time you realize that's who he is Josh's best years will be behind him. 

[thenorthremembers]

9 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Dungy 2.0 of course refers to his inability to win a SB with Tampa and the fact Gruden won the SB first year with the same players. 

Dungy failed for several years with Manning too. It took Manning refusing to leave the field on 4th down when Dungy was going to punt to finally make the SB, where they beat one of the worst SB teams in NFL history.  

Explain away but using a Hall of Fame Coaches name to draw a parallel to another coach in a manner of disrespect is not only asinine it also invalidates your argument. 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

The problem is McD is a defensive coach, so even in a world where they find the perfect OC to right the ship, they will inevitably lose him to a HC gig elsewhere and we are back to square 1.

 

McD is a great leader of men. I am not so sure he is a great football mind.

Edited January 23, 2023 by EmotionallyUnstable

[bobobonators]

Just now, LABILLBACKER said:

Josh on the Niners would be multiple Lombardis. I would love for Reich to take over for Dorsey and we need a new dynamic DC willing to use man coverage more. But like the word purgatory,  nothing will change.  

Something has to change on defense. Burrow and Mahomes are not going anywhere. Lawrence will only get better. We cant play bend dont break zone defense vs QB’s like that. 3rd and 10 wont mean anything. They will carve us up and win TOP 9 out of 10 times. It puts so much pressure on our offense to be perfect. 

[HappyDays]

One thing I will criticize this coaching staff for is their gameplans appear to be generic on both sides of the ball, no attempt to attack opponents' specific weaknesses. On defense it is always play back and hope the opponent makes mistakes even when we face an offense that will not make mistakes. On offense it's trust our OL to pass protection long enough for our mediocre pass catchers to get open way downfield even when the opposing DL is getting home. And I think what's happening is that our generic gameplan looks really good against poor teams but falls way short against good teams, and then it's just a matter of Allen either willing us to victory or not. The other remaining teams have more than one way to win. McDermott and his coordinators have to open up their horizons. They cannot afford to be stubborn again because after next season their jobs are no longer inherently safe.

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by HappyDays

[Buffalo03]

1 minute ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

 

Right, give it time. There's always next year (AFC game KC dominated), & next year (13 seconds), & next year (Cincy dominates) & next year & next year. By the time you realize that's who he is Josh's best years will be behind him. 

Who would you rather have, Andy Reid or Mike McCarthy based on track record?

[Blazman11]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I acknowledged numerous times it took him over 20 years to win his first, in what way does that make you think I would go back to his 6th year in Philly when he clearly didn't win it then and by the way, if you fired him after his 6th year in KC, you may not get that Super Bowl he helped you win in year 7 or get back to it again in year 8

Marty Schottenheimer was 5-13 in the playoffs. McDermott is 4-5

I don’t know why you cannot understand this but for the past 3 years the Bills have had as much talent as any other team in the NFL. Bills have been SB favorites all year. And they didn’t show up today again.  I saw Cincy receivers wide open all game. I once again see no stunts on DL. They guessed wrong on blitzes and never got home. they were totally unprepared for what Cincy came with on both sides of the ball.  They got blown off the field at home. This falls on coaching staff. 
 

wake me up the next time Reid calls a defensive timeout. 

[Buffalo03]

1 minute ago, Blazman11 said:

I don’t know why you cannot understand this but for the past 3 years the Bills have had as much talent as any other team in the NFL. Bills have been SB favorites all year. And they didn’t show up today again.  I saw Cincy receivers wide open all game. I once again see no stunts on DL. They guessed wrong on blitzes and never got home. they were totally unprepared for what Cincy came with on both sides of the ball.  They got blown off the field at home. This falls on coaching staff. 
 

wake me up the next time Reid calls a defensive timeout. 

I'm well aware of the talent the Bills have. Some coaches take that talent to a Super Bowl in 5 years some do it in 7 or 8, some in 10 or longer, the great coaches get there. What I would like McDermott to do is fire Frazier and get a new OC but I am willing to give McDermott a couple more year at least

[bills6969]

Super Bowl or bust next year.  If we don’t win it next year,  Beane will blow up the staff.

[Preds]

When will McDermott ever hold himself to the same accountability that he demands of his players?  13 seconds should have been that moment, but instead he hid behind a say no evil speak no evil mantra.  At what point do the players say if McD doesn't hold himself and his coaches to the same standards as he holds the players, then why the F should they bother listening?  

[Donuts and Doritos]

9 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Who would you rather have, Andy Reid or Mike McCarthy based on track record?

Those aren't my only options. McD did not have his team ready today in any way. He took 3 timeouts into halftime & burned his second half timeouts w/ 7 minutes to go, no adjustments, no changes in how the offense operated last week to this one (chuck it deep Josh all the time). After last year's 13 seconds debacle, he should be on the hot seat, period. Otherwise expect more of the same. & I'll take a Zac Taylor, who gets his team to the SB in year 3 & looks on his way to another, possibly a win in his 4th season as head coach. That's the kind of guy we need.

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by Donuts and Doritos

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, buffblue said:

I don’t know if we give him am ultimatum, but this is pretty much what needs to happen.

 

As bad as our loss was today, this might be the least disappointed I've been with McD at a season end. I thought he did a great job this year. But he has to address the coordinators - we went from having one championship level guy to zero

Least disappointed...wow your bar isn't set very high.  I wish you were my boss.

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, Buffalo03 said:

Do you think the Eagles said this every year of Andy Reid's tenure there? What about his first 5 or 6 years in Kansas City? He is a HOF head coached that took over 20 years to win his first Super Bowl. Relax

The Eagles fired him after four straight NFC Championship game appearances. There comes a point.  Tom Landry was fired despite a resume with three super bowl wins.  Sometimes change is better.  Bills fans are scarred because of our history of epically bad head coaches.  

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, Buffalo03 said:

I'm well aware of the talent the Bills have. Some coaches take that talent to a Super Bowl in 5 years some do it in 7 or 8, some in 10 or longer, the great coaches get there. What I would like McDermott to do is fire Frazier and get a new OC but I am willing to give McDermott a couple more year at least

I think he may be insecure. Might be uncomfortable with aggressive young coordinators. I think he's probably negatively impacted the draft as well.. No badass. Just choirboys. I think he's pretty much served his purpose. I don't know that Pegula has the stones to fire him though.

Of course you don't fire anyone unless something better is available to be hired. I don't think there is a Kyle Shanahan out there right now.

[Buffalo03]

1 minute ago, Donuts and Doritos said:

Those aren't my only options. McD did not have his team ready today in any way. He took 3 timeouts into halftime & burned his second half timeouts w/ 7 minutes to go, no adjustments, no changes in how the offense operated last week to this one (chuck it deep Josh all the time). After last year's 13 seconds debacle, he should be on the hot seat, period. Otherwise expect more of the same. & I'll take a Zac Taylor, who gets his team to the SB in year 3 & looks on his way to another, possibly a win I'm his 4th season as head coach. That's the kind of guy we need.

His timeout usage is a problem. Yes, we had a bad day. But he still deserves a couple more chances at least. Allen is here for the foreseeable future so we can give a little more time before giving another coach a shot

[Blazman11]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I'm well aware of the talent the Bills have. Some coaches take that talent to a Super Bowl in 5 years some do it in 7 or 8, some in 10 or longer, the great coaches get there. What I would like McDermott to do is fire Frazier and get a new OC but I am willing to give McDermott a couple more year at least

I absolutely agree with you on firing Frazier. He should’ve been gone after 13 seconds - assuming those defensive calls were his (which honestly I don’t know is a good assumption but whatever). 
 

It’s obvious I will never change your mind and you will never change mine. Believe it or not my pitchfork isn’t sharpened at the ready for McDermott (I’ve been arguing against the length of time it can take when your team is already stacked with talent). As I said earlier he’s done some great things. I can get on board with riding McDermott out as long as Frazier is gone and someone on the sidelines is assigned with tackling McDermott if he ever tried to call a defensive timeout. 
 

 

[LABILLBACKER]

11 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

Something has to change on defense. Burrow and Mahomes are not going anywhere. Lawrence will only get better. We cant play bend dont break zone defense vs QB’s like that. 3rd and 10 wont mean anything. They will carve us up and win TOP 9 out of 10 times. It puts so much pressure on our offense to be perfect. 

We had the exact bend don't break crap during our 90's run.  This is like de ja vu all over again with a better qb.  In our last 4 playoff exits our defense was embarrassing. Stubborn coaches sticking with their worthless zone scheme.  Including today,  how many dozens of times we saw 3rd & long converted. This craziness has to stop.

[Chaos]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

I'm well aware of the talent the Bills have. Some coaches take that talent to a Super Bowl in 5 years some do it in 7 or 8, some in 10 or longer, the great coaches get there. What I would like McDermott to do is fire Frazier and get a new OC but I am willing to give McDermott a couple more year at least

No coach/QB combo since the 1970s has taken more than five years to get to their first super bowl appearance. Some coaches have. But the last time a coach with the same QB took more time was Madden/Stabler.  

[buffblue]

6 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Least disappointed...wow your bar isn't set very high.  I wish you were my boss.

Lol I'm not the guy you should be calling out on this board. The point was with McDermott's staff. I think both Frazier and Dorsey should be let go immediately. Lay off the sauce

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

I think he may be insecure. Might be uncomfortable with aggressive young coordinators. I think he's probably negatively impacted the draft as well.. No badass. Just choirboys. I think he's pretty much served his purpose. I don't know that Pegula has the stones to fire him though.

Of course you don't fire anyone unless something better is available to be hired. I don't think there is a Kyle Shanahan out there right now.

Did you know who Nick Sirianni or Sean McVay were before they were hired?

[Buffalo03]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

The Eagles fired him after four straight NFC Championship game appearances. There comes a point.  Tom Landry was fired despite a resume with three super bowl wins.  Sometimes change is better.  Bills fans are scarred because of our history of epically bad head coaches.  

Tom Landry was fired after 3 straight horrible losing seasons. His prior super bowls 10 years earlier meant nothing at that point. Reid went to 5 championship games in Philly and one Super Bowl. He was still given another 4 seasons after that in Philly and then another 7 in Kansas City before he got it

[Chicken Boo]

1 hour ago, BillnutinHouston said:

This is 100% correct.  

 

McD is to Bflo as Tomlin is to Pittsburgh.

 

"Good enough" is good enough.

 

Except Tomlin has been to 2 Super Bowls and has a Super Bowl win.

[starrymessenger]

3 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Did you know who Nick Sirianni or Sean McVay were before they were hired?

We'll look I said I don't know but hey maybe you do. If guys of that calibre are out there by all means pursue them. Oh and let me know who they are. I'm all for learning.

[Buffalo03]

8 minutes ago, Blazman11 said:

I absolutely agree with you on firing Frazier. He should’ve been gone after 13 seconds - assuming those defensive calls were his (which honestly I don’t know is a good assumption but whatever). 
 

It’s obvious I will never change your mind and you will never change mine. Believe it or not my pitchfork isn’t sharpened at the ready for McDermott (I’ve been arguing against the length of time it can take when your team is already stacked with talent). As I said earlier he’s done some great things. I can get on board with riding McDermott out as long as Frazier is gone and someone on the sidelines is assigned with tackling McDermott if he ever tried to call a defensive timeout. 
 

 

My mind won't be changed simply because you and other people think that all coaches only deserve 5 years with a successful team before letting someone go. Andy Reid, Tony Dungy, Bill Cowher. These are all HOF head coaches that won their Super Bowls later in their tenured but I would take any one of them including McDermott over firing him after just 6 seasons

Edited January 23, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Chaos]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo03 said:

Tom Landry was fired after 3 straight horrible losing seasons. His prior super bowls 10 years earlier meant nothing at that point. Reid went to 5 championship games in Philly and one Super Bowl. He was still given another 4 seasons after that in Philly and then another 7 in Kansas City before he got it

you seem to miss the point.  Landry and Reid actually made it to championship games and super bowls. McDermott is a divisional round playoff guy after peaking three seasons ago.