Anyone else watching other games & daydreaming about how much easier their QB's have it???

[Simon]

1 minute ago, YattaOkasan said:

I guess. Trying to dissect this a bit is hard. First thing in my mind is his time to throw has stayed high. I think we also still run a ton of option routes which are not anticipation throws.
 

I actually don’t consider a criticism. Having the ability to wait until peeps have separation shows the ability to have great arm strength. Allows adjustment to post snap coverage changes. Lastly I think it’s how he can convert 3rd and Josh Allen’s. Hard to anticipate 3rd and long plays versus short plays

 

Yeah, that's why I put quotation marks around it. Just because it might not be the most optimal way to go about it doesn't necessarily make it a full blown "criticism".

As for the original question, I think this awful OLine and its frequently blown up passpro has him throwing off platform at odd angles so often that it probably really affects his accuracy and the YAC potential.

[YattaOkasan]

Just now, ScottLaw said:

Similarly to games they’ve lost last year and this year… Offensive line getting blasted throughout the game and Josh getting beat up in the process. 
 

Both the Miami and Jets loss the offensive line was putrid and contributed to their poor offensive performance. 
 

Think back to the Chiefs playoff game from last season, if Josh wasn’t a magician in avoiding the rush of Ingram who destroyed Brown for much of the game, there isn’t a 13 seconds to begin with. 

I put Miami on several misses from skill players. Dirting a throw to McK that gives us the lead. Even the strip sack was singeltary not being able to lock holland. 
 

jets was clearly interceptions. Yes josh got out of the pocket for one of them but it was clearly on him at that point. The second was from a clean pocket. Also tackling. Nah. I don’t pin those losses on the OL

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

Yeah, that's why I put quotation marks around it. Just because it might not be the most optimal way to go about it doesn't necessarily make it a full blown "criticism".

As for the original question, I think this awful OLine and its frequently blown up passpro has him throwing off platform at odd angles so often that it probably really affects his accuracy and the YAC potential.

I see thanks. 
 

just check the stats on awful OL. I think it’s a similar “criticism”. Carried over from years past. Pressure rate is down a third this year. We were good at sack last year but bad at hurried pressure and hits. We’re now middle of the pack for all of them.  I think he’s getting a cleaner pocket. 
 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/advanced.htm
check the pressure tab

[Heavy Kevi]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

The Bills passing offense is not what maybe we want it to be but its pretty good.   The Bills score the second highest points per game in the league as an offense.  You are seeing "greener grass" but if you switched you would end up with a 500 team or one that is not close to making the playoffs.  Enjoy the ride this team is giving you is my advice!  Its a great ride...it is ok to talk about how they can improve but in this case you are kind of cherry picking.

 

Not really though.

 

Bills are 24th in the league in YAC. 

 

Bills lead the league in drops by WRs

 

Josh does have to do it all himself, and many other QBs have it MUCH easier. They have run games, decent Olines, more than 1 decent WR. It's not all that uncommon.

 

It's okay to admit things like this. The problems don't cease to exist just because the Bills are really good right now. Imagine how much better they could be with competent WR play. 

 

You know it's a real issue when your franchise QB on a really great team tells the GM to go sign practice squad players to contribute on GameDay (Beasley, Smoke) when your receiving corps isn't even banged up.

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

just check the stats on awful OL. I think it’s a similar “criticism”. Carried over from years past. Pressure rate is down a third this year. We were good at sack last year but bad at hurried pressure and hits. We’re now middle of the pack for all of them.  I think he’s getting a cleaner pocket. 
 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/advanced.htm
check the pressure tab

 

I've seen that and have a really hard time reconciling it with what we're actually seeing live on Sundays.

I think Allen has such a great pocket presence that he sees pressures and avoids them before they actually become pressures, resulting in a very deceptive (and subjective) number that places the Bills around 10th in the league. If you look at the number of times Allen has been forced to scramble on pass plays, the Bills are suddenly 3rd worst in the NFL, with #4 being significantly far behind them.

[Charles Romes]

I think most opposing fans are envious about the soft shells Josh constantly forces the defenses into. 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again watching TB & seems Brady has all day and receivers running open.  Stidham throwing for 360 vs. SF and Adams making great catches.  Mahomes a ho hum 330 yard game and again a lot of easy passes.  Goff and Prescott too.

 

Maybe I'm cherry picking, but I seem to see too many great catches & easy throws by QB's, whereas Josh Allen often seems to have to do it all.

 

Am I being too hypercritical of the Bills offense?

 

I do watch other games and see receivers haul in contested balls that I think our guys don't manage, and I do feel envious.

 

On the other hand, it has to be realized that there's some cause-and-effect involved.  Brady and some other QB play in timing offenses, hit your drop, make the throw most of the time.  Since these are often shallow/intermediate throws, it kind of opens up the deep game.

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

I've seen that and have a really hard time reconciling it with what we're actually seeing live on Sundays.

I think Allen has such a great pocket presence that he sees pressures and avoids them before they actually become pressures, resulting in a very deceptive (and subjective) number that places the Bills around 10th in the league. If you look at the number of times Allen has been forced to scramble on pass plays, the Bills are suddenly 3rd worst in the NFL, with #4 being significantly far behind them.

A general theme with the Bills is that Allen is so good, it hides all kinds of deficiencies elsewhere on the team. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

The one guy I always watch and wish he were on the Bills is Austin Ekeler. I swear that he catches 3-yard passes, and every time turns it into a 10-yard gain with a little wiggle, broken tackle, or dive forward. 
 

I thought Hines would be that guy for us, and he has flashed (had a huge third down conversion last game in the red zone where he made a guy miss on a check down), but not with any consistency.  Eckler does that literally every time he touches the ball. 

[UKBillFan]

I love Josh but do think he could make things easier for himself at times. For the most part, we seem to have players open in the check down area but he constantly looks longer. Just would like him to mix it up a bit more in terms of taking what defenses offer. And the more we move the ball short, the defense will have to come up, opening opportunities for deep passes.

Edited January 2, 2023 by UKBillFan

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

Bills are 24th in the league in YAC. 

 

Part of that is, Josh seeks the deep throws and when he does take the checkdown the space has closed around the checkdown receiver.  QBs who get lots of YAC are taking the checkdown early in the play when there's a 10 yd cushion.

 

10 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

Bills lead the league in drops by WRs

 

I don't doubt you, but I'd like to know where the stat on this is 'cuz, can't find.  Link please?

 

10 minutes ago, Heavy Kevi said:

You know it's a real issue when your franchise QB on a really great team tells the GM to go sign practice squad players to contribute on GameDay (Beasley, Smoke) when your receiving corps isn't even banged up.

 

Um....the reason the GM is being asked to sign guys off the couch (not practice squad) is because we have 2 receivers on IR

 

5 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

I thought Hines would be that guy for us, and he has flashed (had a huge third down conversion last game in the red zone where he made a guy miss on a check down), but not with any consistency.  Eckler does that literally every time he touches the ball. 

 

I had hopes for Hines also, but when a guy is buried on the depth chart for a "meh" team (#4 or 5) at both receiver and RB, it doesn't argue that he's Eckler or CMC in waiting.

 

3 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

I love Josh but do think he could make things easier for himself at times. For the most part, we seem to have players open in the check down area but he constantly looks longer. Just would like him to mix it up a bit more in terms of taking what defenses offer. And the more we move the ball short, the defense will come to come up, opening opportunities for deep passes.

 

I would like this 1000x if I could

2 hours ago, Pete said:

That seems to be the case sometimes, but often Josh has plenty of time to throw.  That interception last week for example.  He had 5 seconds and couldn't find any WR with seperation.  That is often the case IMO.  WRs must win their 1 on 1 matchups

 

Which INT last week are you talking about?

Edited January 2, 2023 by Beck Water

[YattaOkasan]

9 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I've seen that and have a really hard time reconciling it with what we're actually seeing live on Sundays.

I think Allen has such a great pocket presence that he sees pressures and avoids them before they actually become pressures, resulting in a very deceptive (and subjective) number that places the Bills around 10th in the league. If you look at the number of times Allen has been forced to scramble on pass plays, the Bills are suddenly 3rd worst in the NFL, with #4 being significantly far behind them.

I agree josh is amazing at pocket presence and it’s not talked about enough. So I think you convinced

me the stats are overstating the OL play.  I would mention though that josh has shown the pocket presence from 2020 so the year over year stats can be used for comparison rather than league wide like I was doing with season ranks.  Josh definitely is choosing to leave clean pockets though making his own angles tough (he so good at tough throws though).  I think a thread on OL might be needed as there’s a lot to talk about it feels. Thanks for the discussion 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, FrenchConnection said:

I wish Josh would learn to take the underneath passes, but it just isn’t in his makeup. He’s got that Brett Favre dog in him. But I do wish that the Bills had a receiver like Jamar Chase that could make contested catches. Watch Burrow tonight. Half of the Bengals playbook are i’ll-advised passes to Chase on the boundary that only work because he makes catches when double covered. 

 

So here's the paradox:  Josh CAN do it.  He did it against Miami Week 3.  He did it against KC Week 6.  And he did it against NE week 13 to the point of making Bill Belicheck look like a fool - his defense was set up to prevent Josh from racking up long runs and to prevent deep throws.  And Josh smiled sweetly, handed off to the RBs, and

 

It's like he does it when it's in our game plan and those are his "marching order" from the start, so we know he CAN do it.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Beck Water

[bmur66]

Touchdowns first. Duh

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yes expect to see that tonight and be cursing the TV.🤣 

Sure then explain away.

 

even your first example.  Brady has been getting destroyed all season behind that O-line, screaming at them all year.   His receivers have been MIA most of the season.  You tune for one game and this is your conclusion?

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

Touchdowns first. Duh

 

I do think that Daboll had an ability to beat that out of Josh that Dorsey and Joe Brady somehow lack.

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

just to specify YAC- yards(plural) after catch, not yard after catch

This is kind of weird. Diggs just isn't a YAC type guy; that's not in his skillset (which is pretty amazing otherwise).

But other guys? Knox: where's that Angry Run we watched a bazillion times from a couple years ago?

McKenzie, and now Hines: these are extremely quick/slippery runners who haven't broken free for any long runs. Cook has shown that explosive potential too, but on runs, not passes (yet). Why not?

Edited January 2, 2023 by The Frankish Reich

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

The one guy I always watch and wish he were on the Bills is Austin Ekeler. I swear that he catches 3-yard passes, and every time turns it into a 10-yard gain with a little wiggle, broken tackle, or dive forward. 
 

I thought Hines would be that guy for us, and he has flashed (had a huge third down conversion last game in the red zone where he made a guy miss on a check down), but not with any consistency.  Eckler does that literally every time he touches the ball. 

Cook seems like he could do that if he doesn't trip over his own feet first. The problem is Josh often doesn't go to him enough maybe because it's his last read or thinks he can fit it in downfield more. 

[Pokebball]

3 hours ago, Pete said:

That seems to be the case sometimes, but often Josh has plenty of time to throw.  That interception last week for example.  He had 5 seconds and couldn't find any WR with seperation.  That is often the case IMO.  WRs must win their 1 on 1 matchups

It isn't just "time to throw". Josh is mostly under pressure when he throws. He does a good job buying time and finding the open receiver but he's doing it after escaping pressure, on the run, throwing while in the air before landing out of bounds. It's important to consider the context.

[Billsfan1972]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

I try to ignore the OP because he just posts stuff looking for attention.  But I am looking at some responses here and am amazed at the negativity.  The Bills are the #1 team in the AFC.  But reading some of you, we should probably just forfeit tonight and turn down being in the payoffs because we’re so horrible.

 

 

Just because the Bills are winning doesn't mean everything is perfect. Just asked the Vikings, their fans and the pundits.

 

I'm glad you wear rose-coloured glasses, good for you.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Billsfan1972

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

even your first example.  Brady has been getting destroyed all season behind that O-line, screaming at them all year.   His receivers have been MIA most of the season.  You tune for one game and this is your conclusion?

Brady is a statue back there and happy to throw his players under the bus. I've watched a lot of Tampa games and often he is getting lots of time and making or missing passes. Take a look at the yards thrown, which is more then Allen.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Billsfan1972