Saint Doug Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 hour ago, strive_for_five_guy said: Obviously coming from the St. Doug coaching tree helped too. Obviously 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuntieEm Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said: Its the same as how Josh McDaniels, Adam Gase etc got jobs with all time great QB's. Stupidity. The fact that NFL owners and GM's etc don't see this is beyond me. Give me the guy who takes a below average QB to the playoffs or a coach who get a team less talented to play up over guys who have it easy coaching HOF QB's. What Mike Kafka is doing with Daniel Jones is HC worthy. Lou Anarumo with the Bengals playing top 5 defense without a ton of household talent. Those 2 would be at the top of my list. It is also where the number of HC's hire sons getting them in the system. Some may even be decent coaches having learned from their fathers but there's also plenty of dead weight only collecting a check never earning it. Edited October 25, 2022 by AuntieEm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektowaga Chad Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Convinced he got it strictly so that Rodgers would potentially ok a trade to Denver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ralonzo said: So let me see if I understand what you're inferring: if any member of a race screws up at his job, it impugns the whole race (which everyone knows only helps their own), and we should look to other races for filling that job. It can't possibly be that one guy is just a boob who conned a team into hiring him which has never happened before; no, there's a vast conspiracy to promote inferior candidates based on skin color to ensure that the franchise loses as many games as possible. How obvious, it's been staring us all in the face and we just weren't as enlightened to see it. There’s no doubt that the NFL has a long history of hiring coaches will little experience or who may not be qualified. Some have plenty of experience and are just incompetent. Some succeed, but a lot fail. I guess the question becomes does this happen with black candidates. I’m not so sure and would want to view the data. I’m sure it’s out there. But, I’m certainly am going to outright dismiss race as a factor just because I don’t feel like talking about racism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigK14094 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 I wondered how he got the job when I heard his name. He had to deal with EJ Manual with the Bills, so he was snake bit from the start. But, still....I wondered. BTw, it now appears the Geno Smith/ EJ Manuel controversy is finally over. After 10 years, Gino is a pro finally at Seattle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 49 minutes ago, Rico said: Yep, Hackett and Marrone came to the Bills from friggin’ Syracuse. Thanks, Russ. I’m not a big fan of college coach hires in general, but poaching coaches from Syracuse really is low. I’ll never get over the idea of a Syracuse coach turning around an NFL franchise, unbelievable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralonzo Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Saint Doug said: There’s no doubt that the NFL has a long history of hiring coaches will little experience or who may not be qualified. Some have plenty of experience and are just incompetent. Some succeed, but a lot fail. I guess the question becomes does this happen with black candidates. I’m not so sure and would want to view the data. I’m sure it’s out there. But, I’m certainly am going to outright dismiss race as a factor just because I don’t feel like talking about racism. Yeah, I think that's the strong implication of that in OP, but I edited my post to make it less specific to strictly race as the driver and make the point for any particular {group}, the question being would teams willingly tank just to stay within their group. The interesting flip side when race is involved in the NFL are the already existing incentives driver solely by race and no other purpose (i.e. comp picks). If anything, that is what provides promotion incentives apart from job performance, and indeed is the stated goal per the NFL. As far as Hackett goes, it's no more the Old White Guy Conspiracy than the Bills hiring Rex Ryan or Gregggg Williams or Hank Bullough. It was just plain dumb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rigotz Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 I don't really see this as a race thing as much as it is a network/nepotism issue. Saint Doug found a way to stick around the NFL for way too long and Hackett was his best man... brought him over from Syracuse Offense Coordinator. Syracuse. Offensive Coordinator. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 57 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said: That has way more to do with losing Davante Adams than losing Nate Hackett. Maybe. Not really voting for Hackett. Rather just responding to “ what has he done” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warcodered Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 38 minutes ago, Gugny said: The Doug Marrone Coaching Tree ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 27 minutes ago, bigK14094 said: I wondered how he got the job when I heard his name. He had to deal with EJ Manual with the Bills, so he was snake bit from the start. But, still....I wondered. BTw, it now appears the Geno Smith/ EJ Manuel controversy is finally over. After 10 years, Gino is a pro finally at Seattle! Geno's year may make Seahawks OC Gene Waldron the next hot assistant coach next January. Getting Geno to play quality football in his 10th season is nothing short of wizardry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Rigotz said: I don't really see this as a race thing as much as it is a network/nepotism issue. Saint Doug found a way to stick around the NFL for way too long and Hackett was his best man... brought him over from Syracuse Offense Coordinator. Syracuse. Offensive Coordinator. Sure, technically it is more a nepotism issue nowadays than someone in a 2022 NFL Front Office saying "No Blacks". However, for a loooong time the NFL avoided hiring black coaches. And now, we have a nepotism issue where teams favor hiring the sons/grandsons of coaches from when they DID say "No Blacks". So guess who isnt included in those nepotism hires? Outside races. So it is indirectly and inadvertently a race issue. Nuance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 34 minutes ago, Cheektowaga Chad said: Convinced he got it strictly so that Rodgers would potentially ok a trade to Denver Makes sense - they panic bought in on Wilson. I think the big issue i see there, aside from Wilsons contract and general performance, is: Jeudy is not good. Hamler is not good. Sutton is Davante parker and they just gave him a big extension. Patrick is hurt. They need a new coach but man, everyone expected them all to improve with Wilson and watching them they are just so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albany,n.y. Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 I don't buy the race being a reason Hackett is a head coach as has been suggested. It was all about getting Rodgers to Denver, nothing more than that. The irony is that if Hackett gets the boot during the season his replacement will be DC Ejiro Evero, who will have a good chance of getting the job full time if he turns things around, which once Hackett is gone, is likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 It’s mind boggling he is a HC and Frazier isn’t. What more does a franchise want then what they can get hiring Frazier? He has everything, playing experience, HC experience, DC experience and top defense. He is a respected guy, a leader and can be a face of the franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 So from what I remember this past offseason the idea was Hackett and Rodgers were a package deal. Apparently Rodgers really liked Hackett as his dude calling plays etc.. (I know make the jokes lol) and Denver basically went full court press for Rodgers right down to hiring Hackett as a coach. My understanding from reading NFL media circles is once they didn't get Rodgers it was plan B for Wilson while at the same time internally acknowledging Hackett may not be the best coach if they get Wilson but they literally just hired him and he had good reviews at least from GB. The hype train for Hackett was he managed a middling offense for the Bills, he got more out of Bortles then anyone, and then in GB Rodgers had three incredible seasons including two MVPs. Not saying I agree with this by the way, I 100% think it was a mistake and I never got the hype for him but the NFL media spins things how they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said: I don't buy the race being a reason Hackett is a head coach as has been suggested. It was all about getting Rodgers to Denver, nothing more than that. The irony is that if Hackett gets the boot during the season his replacement will be DC Ejiro Evero, who will have a good chance of getting the job full time if he turns things around, which once Hackett is gone, is likely. Play actions and boot action on early downs would go a LONG way. They seem to run it on 1st down too much. 1 minute ago, corta765 said: So from what I remember this past offseason the idea was Hackett and Rodgers were a package deal. Apparently Rodgers really liked Hackett as his dude calling plays etc.. (I know make the jokes lol) and Denver basically went full court press for Rodgers right down to hiring Hackett as a coach. My understanding from reading NFL media circles is once they didn't get Rodgers it was plan B for Wilson while at the same time internally acknowledging Hackett may not be the best coach if they get Wilson but they literally just hired him and he had good reviews at least from GB. The hype train for Hackett was he managed a middling offense for the Bills, he got more out of Bortles then anyone, and then in GB Rodgers had three incredible seasons including two MVPs. Not saying I agree with this by the way, I 100% think it was a mistake and I never got the hype for him but the NFL media spins things how they want. Adam Gase spun the Manning MVP into 2 HC jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Chandler's Hands Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Beck Water said: He did have the best scoring offense in 2020, and GB was 13-3 during his 3 seasons as OC there Now they also had a sound defense and Aaron Rodgers But I guess the idea was if they landed a different top QB it would work the same? I'm not saying that Hackett was the best choice for the Denver job but I'm not sure how you get the "nepotism" or the "old white boy network" out of this. The trend for several years in the NFL has been to hire guys associated with a hot offense (college or pro as HC) and in particular, who only have 1-2 years as OC or even 0 years as OC. Kliff Kingsbury hot college coach from Texas Tech Arthur Smith 2 years as hot OC for Tennessee Titans Matt Rhule hot college coach for Baylor and Temple Zac Taylor QB and WR coach for LA Rams 2017-2018 (I didn't think this would work but it took them to the 2021 Superbowl.....) Kevin Stefanski almost 2 years as hot OC for Minn. Vikings Matt LaFleur 1 year as Rams OC, 1 year as Titans OC Mike McDaniel 1 year as SF 49ers OC Kevin OConnell 2 years as LA Rams OC That's 1/4 of the head coaches in the NFL fitting that "little or no experience as an NFL offensive coordinator" TBT I think the nepotism/cronyism part more comes in with hiring retreads like Mike McCarthy, Doug Pederson, Ron Rivera. So the rebuttal to an argument about NFL teams hiring the same type of guys is to point to an example of 8 white dudes who were hired as HC's? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Ralonzo said: Yeah, I think that's the strong implication of that in OP, but I edited my post to make it less specific to strictly race as the driver and make the point for any particular {group}, the question being would teams willingly tank just to stay within their group. The interesting flip side when race is involved in the NFL are the already existing incentives driver solely by race and no other purpose (i.e. comp picks). If anything, that is what provides promotion incentives apart from job performance, and indeed is the stated goal per the NFL. As far as Hackett goes, it's no more the Old White Guy Conspiracy than the Bills hiring Rex Ryan or Gregggg Williams or Hank Bullough. It was just plain dumb. It is most definitely more "hire one of our own" than "let's hire a hot new coaching prospect." Hackett was neither hot nor new -- he has been floating around the NFL doing an adequate (at best) job for more than a decade. And as for his "success" in Green Bay...I'd argue both Joe Philbin and Tom Clements had equal (or better) success "coordinating" an offense led by a HOF QB. I think it's equal parts dumb and biased. Edited October 25, 2022 by eball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 9 minutes ago, Bleeding Bills Blue said: Play actions and boot action on early downs would go a LONG way. They seem to run it on 1st down too much. Adam Gase spun the Manning MVP into 2 HC jobs. Basically this ^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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