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PFT - Leslie Frazier: It’s discouraging I haven’t had another chance to be a head coach


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20 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that’s fair. The flip side is that teams with stud QBs aren’t usually the ones replacing their HC. It’s a little “chicken and egg.” Maybe a situation like the Chargers, if they underachieve would be possible? The point remains though, if there are 6 or 7 jobs he’s probably only a realistic candidate for 1 or 2. Someone like Daboll would be considered in pretty much every situation. 

 

Yup.  For him to have success, he'd need to go to a team with a stud QB and as you said, those are few and far between,  But it does happen. 

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7 hours ago, Gobills14094 said:

He's 21-32 as a head coach. That record doesn't lie.

Bill Belicheck was 20-28 his first 3 years as a HC.

 

Jimmy Johnson was 19-29 his first 3 years. 

 

Though I feel he wouldn't succeed as a HC if given another shot I do believe he is a decent DC.

 

 

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Very good person, football mind and DC.  Unfortunately his age + his past record as a HC will likely keep him from getting another job.  I wouldn’t hire him if I were a GM based on those 2 things alone.  

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1 hour ago, billsbackto81 said:

Bill Belicheck was 20-28 his first 3 years as a HC.

 

Jimmy Johnson was 19-29 his first 3 years. 

 

Though I feel he wouldn't succeed as a HC if given another shot I do believe he is a decent DC.

 

 

 

 

This gets rehashed a lot.  BB took a 3 win team to 6, 7, and 11 wins and a playoff appearance.  At some point, Vinny Testaverde as your top QB runs out of steam...

 

In 2 of Frazier's 3 full seasons in Minny, his teams had the worst D in the league re; giving up points.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

This gets rehashed a lot.  BB took a 3 win team to 6, 7, and 11 wins and a playoff appearance.  At some point, Vinny Testaverde as your top QB runs out of steam...

 

In 2 of Frazier's 3 full seasons in Minny, his teams had the worst D in the league re; giving up points.

Not saying you're wrong.  A lot of coaches have poor starts before they can right the ship. I'm just saying a poor start to a past coaching career shouldn't be the standard or determining factor on whether a candidate should get another HC gig or not. Like many you learn from mistakes, right? Frazier may have had a 💩 hand dealt to him in Minny but I've seen enough to believe he wouldn't succeed if given the opportunity again.

 

JMHO. Of course I could be wrong.

Edited by billsbackto81
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3 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Bill Belicheck was 20-28 his first 3 years as a HC.

 

Jimmy Johnson was 19-29 his first 3 years. 

 

Though I feel he wouldn't succeed as a HC if given another shot I do believe he is a decent DC.

 

 

Jimmy Johnson? You’re seriously reaching.

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6 minutes ago, vincec said:

Jimmy Johnson? You’re seriously reaching.

The man went 1-15 his first season.

 

19 wins in his first 48 games as a HC then goes on to win 2 consecutive championships.

 

How is that reaching?

 

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7 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

The man went 1-15 his first season.

 

19 wins in his first 48 games as a HC then goes on to win 2 consecutive championships.

 

How is that reaching?

 

They guy took over a terrible Cowboys team and by his third season had them in the playoffs, got them a playoff win, and a regular season win over the Super Bowl champion Redskins. There was never any question that had turned the Cowboys around by the end of his second season let alone after 48 games. To imply that the jury was still out on him after three seasons is reaching.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Gobills14094 said:

He's 21-32 as a head coach. That record doesn't lie.

However,  people like Doug Marrone still got 2nd jobs (Pretty quickly) with such putrid win/losses.

His record was 

Buffalo -  15-17.  and immediately got the JAX job.

Went 23-43 in 4 seasons at JAX. (He was given four seasons for being mediocre).

 

Worst was that Doug was neither good in offense nor defense.

 

On the flip side,  Greg Williams went 17-31 in his four seasons in Buffalo; but never got to be HC again other than an interim stint in Cleveland.

Edited by ganesh
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2 hours ago, vincec said:

They guy took over a terrible Cowboys team and by his third season had them in the playoffs, got them a playoff win, and a regular season win over the Super Bowl champion Redskins. There was never any question that had turned the Cowboys around by the end of his second season let alone after 48 games. To imply that the jury was still out on him after three seasons is reaching.

All I'm implying is that coaches with mediocre records after 3 seasons still can go on to have tremendous success. I just don't believe Frazier is one of them.  In Johnson's case the record is a bit skewed because of the 1-15. We all personally know what they went on to be after that.😪😪

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23 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think that it’s tough to inspire a fan base with the hiring of a 63 year-old DC. I hate to say it like that because Frazier has earned the opportunity. Typically bad teams are looking for “who’s next.” They want the next McVay. They continue to hire, young, creative, offensive minds. The market is narrow for Leslie Frazier. He needs a situation like Jacksonville that was a total disaster and needs an adult in the room to stabilize. I suppose if the Browns blow up this year he might be an option?  I guess that Lovie Smith was an exception to this but those situations are few and far between. I just don’t see, for example, the Jets turning that group over to LF if things don’t work out here. It will be “the next young offensive mind.”


I agree.  63 and a DC who is under a HC who was a DC.  You can’t even know how much of the success on that side of the ball is him versus McDermott.  That’s a tough sell even for a coordinator who is on the “right” side of the ball, and he’s not.  

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:


I agree.  63 and a DC who is under a HC who was a DC.  You can’t even know how much of the success on that side of the ball is him versus McDermott.  That’s a tough sell even for a coordinator who is on the “right” side of the ball, and he’s not.  

I equate it to when the Broncos hired Vic Fangio. There weren’t any Broncos fans that were like, “yes, we got Vic Fangio!!! Watch out world!!”

Edited by Kirby Jackson
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15 hours ago, billsbackto81 said:

Not saying you're wrong.  A lot of coaches have poor starts before they can right the ship. I'm just saying a poor start to a past coaching career shouldn't be the standard or determining factor on whether a candidate should get another HC gig or not. Like many you learn from mistakes, right? Frazier may have had a 💩 hand dealt to him in Minny but I've seen enough to believe he wouldn't succeed if given the opportunity again.

 

JMHO. Of course I could be wrong.

 

 

BB was credited much for the Giants success in SB 25.  Before Minny, Frazier had a fairly undistinguished career as an assistant on a few teams.  He was fired from each of  his 2 Coordinator jobs in Cincy and Tampa after 2 seasons.

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