Coffeesforclosers Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: Not surprised so many have been abandoned, fuel is hard to get shipped during war. The French had more tanks than the Germans in 1941 but just couldn’t drive them. They destroyed many themselves because their logistics sucked Indeed! The French equivalent of a panzer division, the Division Legere Mechanique (DLM) actually got to fight the Panzer divisions head on in Belgium and stopped them cold... But they couldn't redeploy to Sedan/Meuse fast enough to seal off the German breakthrough, or coordinate counter attacks to cut off German spearheads. Then the French leadership completely imploded into backstabbing and defeatism and that was that. Sorta the opposite of Ukraine so far. *I'm going to be typing "so far" a lot, because I can't see into the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 4 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said: I agree that Putin completely underestimated his ability to unite the west. I never thought I’d see the day where republicans and democrats and all of the western world was united on a cause. However, when it comes to the bolded, there’s really no way to know that yet. We don’t have accurate casualty figures, just propaganda from one side or the other. It took the US 3 weeks to capture Baghdad and that wasn’t an embarrassing military performance. Forces, no matter how superior, take time to move and capture land against inferior forces. If Ukraine is still holding on in a months time, it would absolutely be an embarrassing failure for the Russian military. I am commenting based on my experience, which is seven years of planning against them, the last two and a half an an adversary pilot, studying their tactics and weapons and presenting them to US fighters and other air forces. The US performance in Iraq was military nearly flawless. This is a a strange non use of capability, terrible planning and poor execution. The lack of a professional NCO group is obvious, but their Air Force sitting on the sidelines is puzzling. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 1 hour ago, sherpa said: I am commenting based on my experience, which is seven years of planning against them, the last two and a half an an adversary pilot, studying their tactics and weapons and presenting them to US fighters and other air forces. The US performance in Iraq was military nearly flawless. This is a a strange non use of capability, terrible planning and poor execution. The lack of a professional NCO group is obvious, but their Air Force sitting on the sidelines is puzzling. Perhaps they wanted to save their AF in the event they actually face off against NATO? And now that it looks like NATO won't intervene directly, I wonder if they ramp up their AF use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 It is time to get real close to China. We know what Russia and Putin are. We need China to be actually neutral or leaning to the west. IMHO, a pre emotive strike will be required, by year end. Moldova, Romania, Poland. Where is the line? Does the west value freedom, or only our freedom? 1938 is here folks, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherpa Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: It is time to get real close to China. We know what Russia and Putin are. We need China to be actually neutral or leaning to the west. IMHO, a pre emotive strike will be required, by year end. That isn't going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 28 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said: It is time to get real close to China. We know what Russia and Putin are. We need China to be actually neutral or leaning to the west. IMHO, a pre emotive strike will be required, by year end. Moldova, Romania, Poland. Where is the line? Does the west value freedom, or only our freedom? 1938 is here folks, again. If China were to be made priority number 1 then offering to not interfere in any Taiwanese issues would probably be quite the olive branch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&C Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 I'm no expert but I have to wonder why this forty mile line hasn't been taken out yet... they've been sitting there like sitting ducks for days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 13 hours ago, sherpa said: The lack of a professional NCO group is obvious, but their Air Force sitting on the sidelines is puzzling. Yeah...why do you think that is? The other thing is why the hell is 1st Guards Tank Army deployed near Kharkiv, rather than leading the drive on Kyiv or Mariupol? It's supposed to be Russia's A Team in terms of gear, training, and quality of leadership. But it's doing a fixing/screening mission against Ukraine's best units instead of trying to win the war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 22 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said: I agree that Putin completely underestimated his ability to unite the west. I never thought I’d see the day where republicans and democrats and all of the western world was united on a cause. However, when it comes to the bolded, there’s really no way to know that yet. We don’t have accurate casualty figures, just propaganda from one side or the other. It took the US 3 weeks to capture Baghdad and that wasn’t an embarrassing military performance. Forces, no matter how superior, take time to move and capture land against inferior forces. If Ukraine is still holding on in a months time, it would absolutely be an embarrassing failure for the Russian military. I would spin your first sentence that he overestimated his campaign to sow division. It’s worked to divide the US but not Europe as much as he hoped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All_Pro_Bills Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, Niagara Bill said: It is time to get real close to China. We know what Russia and Putin are. We need China to be actually neutral or leaning to the west. IMHO, a pre emotive strike will be required, by year end. Moldova, Romania, Poland. Where is the line? Does the west value freedom, or only our freedom? 1938 is here folks, again. Prior to Russia's attack U.S. representatives shared intelligence on Russia with China in an effort to get them on-board to discourage Putin from taking miliary action against Ukraine. They declined and immediately forwarded the intelligence information on to Russia. That's all you need to know about where China stands. Unlike Russia, China has a lot of supporters and advocates among America's elites and corporations through what they call "elite capture", infiltrating US academic and research institutions, and the cultivation of lucrative business and personal relationships with US entities and individuals that keep the pro-China propaganda flowing while domestically discouraging criticism of Xi and the CCP. Hollywood for example, won't even dare to put out a film or TV series that might anger or insult the Chinese leadership. They're all bought off to betray America in the service of China. Russia is basically a top-tier 3rd world economy with nuclear weapons supported by an autocratic ruling class. In a conventional war it's likely the U.S. military could wipe them out in a matter of weeks. China is a bigger threat than Russia. But its a threat of our own making in a trade off for cheap consumer goods and a market for US debt instruments. A deal with the Devil that surprisingly (I gest because its not a surprise) went bad. Advanced under the faulty theory of constructive engagement. Right now they sit back and patiently watch for the time where opportunity to act presents itself. We can trust China as far as you can throw an Elephant. Edited March 6, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 19 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said: Prior to Russia's attack U.S. representatives shared intelligence on Russia with China in an effort to get them on-board to discourage Putin from taking miliary action against Ukraine. They declined and immediately forwarded the intelligence information on to Russia. That's all you need to know about where China stands. Unlike Russia, China has a lot of supporters and advocates among America's elites and corporations through what they call "elite capture", infiltrating US academic and research institutions, and the cultivation of lucrative business and personal relationships with US entities and individuals that keep the pro-China propaganda flowing while domestically discouraging criticism of Xi and the CCP. Hollywood for example, won't even dare to put out a film or TV series that might anger or insult the Chinese leadership. They're all bought off to betray America in the service of China. Russia is basically a top-tier 3rd world economy with nuclear weapons supported by an autocratic ruling class. In a conventional war it's likely the U.S. military could wipe them out in a matter of weeks. China is a bigger threat than Russia. But its a threat of our own making in a trade off for cheap consumer goods and a market for US debt instruments. A deal with the Devil that surprisingly (I gest because its not a surprise) went bad. Advanced under the faulty theory of constructive engagement. Right now they sit back and patiently watch for the time where opportunity to act presents itself. We can trust China as far as you can throw an Elephant. Excellent summary. I believe the west will have to step in the way of Putin unless his own supporters do it first. Before stepping in we must understand China's reactive position. Does the relationship of Putin and the CCP run deeper and is there an underlying plan for communists to own the globe, as we all suspected in the 50s, 60s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) 7 hours ago, B-Man said: What do you think of the author's essay? I read it and it's the sort of sneering, elitist alphabet soup you'd expect from some Ivory tower egg head spinning his pet theory like it's scripture. Edited March 7, 2022 by Coffeesforclosers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) Will Kyiv even contemplate this offer? If they decide to hold out, and the Russians can squeeze their capital and starve them out, the terms could get much worse. Meeting of the Foreign Ministers Thursday in Turkey. Could we see a negotiated end by the end of the week? On 3/6/2022 at 6:10 AM, All_Pro_Bills said: Prior to Russia's attack U.S. representatives shared intelligence on Russia with China in an effort to get them on-board to discourage Putin from taking miliary action against Ukraine. They declined and immediately forwarded the intelligence information on to Russia. That's all you need to know about where China stands. Unlike Russia, China has a lot of supporters and advocates among America's elites and corporations through what they call "elite capture", infiltrating US academic and research institutions, and the cultivation of lucrative business and personal relationships with US entities and individuals that keep the pro-China propaganda flowing while domestically discouraging criticism of Xi and the CCP. Hollywood for example, won't even dare to put out a film or TV series that might anger or insult the Chinese leadership. They're all bought off to betray America in the service of China. Russia is basically a top-tier 3rd world economy with nuclear weapons supported by an autocratic ruling class. In a conventional war it's likely the U.S. military could wipe them out in a matter of weeks. China is a bigger threat than Russia. But its a threat of our own making in a trade off for cheap consumer goods and a market for US debt instruments. A deal with the Devil that surprisingly (I gest because its not a surprise) went bad. Advanced under the faulty theory of constructive engagement. Right now they sit back and patiently watch for the time where opportunity to act presents itself. We can trust China as far as you can throw an Elephant. I think we should use China's support of this war against the Ukrainian people to turn this around. And it should start with an international investigation into the origins of CV-19. Edited March 7, 2022 by Motorin' 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 14 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said: What do you think of the author's essay? I read it and it's the sort of sneering, elitist alphabet soup you'd expect from some Ivory tower egg head spinning his pet theory like it's scripture. The guy's writing style is clearly that of a pretentious douche nozzle. But he has some valid points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 21 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: The guy's writing style is clearly that of a pretentious douche nozzle. But he has some valid points. If you can boil them down to "wake up sheeple, the (insert his favorite bad guys here) are lying to you", why bother with the SAT word salad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 6 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said: If you can boil them down to "wake up sheeple, the (insert his favorite bad guys here) are lying to you", why bother with the SAT word salad? I agree. He has some intelligent things to say, its too bad he spends so much time posing as an intellectual, it is a drag on his credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) To sum it up, I'd say this: Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a tragedy. The political elite class is wholly controlling the narrative, and it is wholly biased and often bereft of truth. The press is printing that narrative, and demonizing any who question or dissent. This could lead to the downfall of western civilization. Edited March 7, 2022 by Tenhigh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Tenhigh said: To sum it up, I'd say this: Russia's invasion of Ukraine is a tragedy. The political elite class is wholly controlling the narrative, and it is wholly biased and often bereft of truth. The press is printing that narrative, and demonizing any who question or dissent. This could lead to the downfall of western civilization. How? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 3 minutes ago, Tiberius said: How? I could be like your twin, Billsy, and tell you to do your own homework. But here you go: https://unherd.com/2022/03/how-western-elites-exploit-ukraine/ "But wedded to a disturbing, yet ascendant, neo-McCarthyism, the homogenisation of the Western media environment could ultimately prove more ominous than simple government censorship à la North Korea or Iran. At its core, the phenomenon aims to condition public opinion into “correct” acceptable speech patterns in the service of the “noble lie” — using the good heart of most ordinary citizens and their repulsion at human suffering as bait. This noxious development, unless fully defanged and neutralised, could yet tear the very fabric of Western society, unleashing the dystopia of internalised totalitarianism, wherein the public-private boundaries disappear and citizens — even informed ones — can hardly distinguish between planted or socially-reinforced information and their own views. In such a world, the only choice is to virtue signal and self-censor. Gone unchecked, it could amount to mass indoctrination around key national security questions and spell the end of democracy — in spirit if not procedurally. This is the ultimate fog of war.: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Tenhigh said: I could be like your twin, Billsy, and tell you to do your own homework. But here you go: https://unherd.com/2022/03/how-western-elites-exploit-ukraine/ "But wedded to a disturbing, yet ascendant, neo-McCarthyism, the homogenisation of the Western media environment could ultimately prove more ominous than simple government censorship à la North Korea or Iran. At its core, the phenomenon aims to condition public opinion into “correct” acceptable speech patterns in the service of the “noble lie” — using the good heart of most ordinary citizens and their repulsion at human suffering as bait. This noxious development, unless fully defanged and neutralised, could yet tear the very fabric of Western society, unleashing the dystopia of internalised totalitarianism, wherein the public-private boundaries disappear and citizens — even informed ones — can hardly distinguish between planted or socially-reinforced information and their own views. In such a world, the only choice is to virtue signal and self-censor. Gone unchecked, it could amount to mass indoctrination around key national security questions and spell the end of democracy — in spirit if not procedurally. This is the ultimate fog of war.: We have a homogeneous media environment? I'd have to say no. We have all sorts of media. Very diversified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 So China is going to use this mess to annex Taiwan once and for all amid all the world confusion in Ukraine Maybe that's the end game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 7 minutes ago, TSOL said: So China is going to use this mess to annex Taiwan once and for all amid all the world confusion in Ukraine Maybe that's the end game Putin laying down a sacrifice bunt for China? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Putin laying down a sacrifice bunt for China? Bet they've talked about this. Stick it right up the west's yinyang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/china-says-taiwan-ukraine-issues-are-different-2022-03-07/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 37 minutes ago, Tiberius said: Putin laying down a sacrifice bunt for China? Or swinging away to drive in two?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 57 minutes ago, Tiberius said: We have a homogeneous media environment? I'd have to say no. We have all sorts of media. Very diversified Only to those unwilling to look at the bigger picture. The top story on every one of these sites Fox News: https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-3-7-2022 CNN: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-07-22/h_beb3e2d7acaa726f6a8498ebab1f600e Huff Post: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/russian-arrested-protest-ukraine_n_62259b8ee4b0bd1df76de57e Daily Beast: https://www.thedailybeast.com/vladimir-putins-world-war-z-has-created-a-new-swastika?ref=home Daily Kos https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/7/2084451/-Ukraine-update-Biden-administration-working-with-Europe-on-possible-ban-of-Russian-oil-imports Newsmax: https://www.newsmax.com/politics/russia-ukraine-war-crimes/2022/03/07/id/1060030/ MSN: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/xi-and-putins-no-limits-bond-leaves-china-few-options-on-ukraine/ar-AAUIRV3?li=BBnb7Kz What do these things have in common? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 5 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: Only to those unwilling to look at the bigger picture. The top story on every one of these sites Fox News: https://www.foxnews.com/live-news/russia-ukraine-war-3-7-2022 CNN: https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-07-22/h_beb3e2d7acaa726f6a8498ebab1f600e Huff Post: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/russian-arrested-protest-ukraine_n_62259b8ee4b0bd1df76de57e Daily Beast: https://www.thedailybeast.com/vladimir-putins-world-war-z-has-created-a-new-swastika?ref=home Daily Kos https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/7/2084451/-Ukraine-update-Biden-administration-working-with-Europe-on-possible-ban-of-Russian-oil-imports Newsmax: https://www.newsmax.com/politics/russia-ukraine-war-crimes/2022/03/07/id/1060030/ MSN: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/xi-and-putins-no-limits-bond-leaves-china-few-options-on-ukraine/ar-AAUIRV3?li=BBnb7Kz What do these things have in common? They are all reporting on the story of most interest to a majority of people? ____ The World Health Organization has verified eight more attacks on health-care facilities in Ukraine, doubling the organization’s previous count, officials said Monday. The WHO has now confirmed at least 14 attacks on the country’s health-care facilities and classified two more attacks as “possible.” At least nine people have died and 16 were injured in the attacks. “WHO strongly condemns these attacks,” the organization said in a statement. “Attacks on health care violate international law and endanger lives. Even in times of conflict, we must protect the sanctity and safety of health care, a fundamental human right.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 minute ago, Tiberius said: They are all reporting on the story of most interest to a majority of people? ____ The World Health Organization has verified eight more attacks on health-care facilities in Ukraine, doubling the organization’s previous count, officials said Monday. The WHO has now confirmed at least 14 attacks on the country’s health-care facilities and classified two more attacks as “possible.” At least nine people have died and 16 were injured in the attacks. “WHO strongly condemns these attacks,” the organization said in a statement. “Attacks on health care violate international law and endanger lives. Even in times of conflict, we must protect the sanctity and safety of health care, a fundamental human right.” They are sounding the drum beat that will lead us to war, Tibs. Do you want to fight for Ukrainian autonomy, should your kids pick up a rifle and go over there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 11 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: They are sounding the drum beat that will lead us to war, Tibs. Do you want to fight for Ukrainian autonomy, should your kids pick up a rifle and go over there? They are reporting on a war. That's what they are paid to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 23 minutes ago, Tenhigh said: They are sounding the drum beat that will lead us to war, Tibs. Do you want to fight for Ukrainian autonomy, should your kids pick up a rifle and go over there? i sure don’t…. But it is problematic that thousands are dying because of one man’s ambitions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsgoteam Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 3/6/2022 at 7:10 AM, All_Pro_Bills said: We can trust China as far as you can throw an Elephant. That's giving China way to much credit. I trust them even less then that. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Tiberius said: They are reporting on a war. That's what they are paid to do But answer the question. Do you want to fight for Ukrainian autonomy, should your kids pick up a rifle and go over there? 54 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said: i sure don’t…. But it is problematic that thousands are dying because of one man’s ambitions. I agree with that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 1 hour ago, Tenhigh said: They are sounding the drum beat that will lead us to war, Tibs. Do you want to fight for Ukrainian autonomy, should your kids pick up a rifle and go over there? It’s great that the WHO condemns the attacks. They still won’t condemn China for f&$@$%g up the entire world though. They’ve proven themselves to be a complete joke. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiberius Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 56 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said: It’s great that the WHO condemns the attacks. They still won’t condemn China for f&$@$%g up the entire world though. They’ve proven themselves to be a complete joke. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/world-health-organization-criticizes-china-over-delays-in-covid-19-probe-11609883140 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 36 minutes ago, Tiberius said: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/world-health-organization-criticizes-china-over-delays-in-covid-19-probe-11609883140 Oooooh they criticized them! Ouch, that must really have hurt China. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the word @Boatdrinks used was condemned.....connnnnndemned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Just now, Chef Jim said: Oooooh they criticized them! Ouch, that must really have hurt China. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the word @Boatdrinks used was condemned.....connnnnndemned. "You should let us investigate" is a lot worse than "you killed millions of people with your man-made pandemic", no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&C Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 Its kind of funny how everyone keeps referring to this as a war, its not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffeesforclosers Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 We're suffering from a massive case of the boy who cried wolf. Ever since the forever wars started, we've been fed a line about the next Hitler, mushroom clouds, wmds and whatever. Now when there's an actual maniac who wants to reconquer a dead empire, everyone on all sides of the political spectrum is fed up. It's ***** sad that we've come to this. because everyone is torn between standing up to Tsar Vladimir the Insane and starting ANOTHER war that goes on and on and on and on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted March 8, 2022 Share Posted March 8, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Coffeesforclosers said: We're suffering from a massive case of the boy who cried wolf. Ever since the forever wars started, we've been fed a line about the next Hitler, mushroom clouds, wmds and whatever. Now when there's an actual maniac who wants to reconquer a dead empire, everyone on all sides of the political spectrum is fed up. It's ***** sad that we've come to this. because everyone is torn between standing up to Tsar Vladimir the Insane and starting ANOTHER war that goes on and on and on and on. Fortunately, Russian incompetence and Ukranian mud might take care of Putin's regime without US or NATO intervention. Should Putin not retain power through this fiasco, we just need to hope that whoever/whatever fills the power void is a better option. Recent history has often made us miss the dictator we knew after we were made familiar with the new chaos. One thing is certain, its going to be interesting! Edited March 8, 2022 by Jauronimo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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