How bad is it for Lesile Frazier?

[Sierra Foothills]

5 hours ago, BobbyC81 said:

Maybe, like Farwell, Frazier will find another DC job.  😉

 

As you are already aware, that's wishful thinking. In the current climate with the Rooney Rule looming over the early offseason I think it's very highly unlikely that Frazier gets fired.

 

Part of this conversation is anger/disappointment fueled. Because of the heinous loss to the Chiefs there is some percentage of the fanbase that wants their pound of flesh... in this case Frazier's head.

 

A realistic and pragmatic view asks the question whether the Bills will grow/learn/improve from this experience... whether McDermott/Frazier will have plugged the leaks.

[Mr. WEO]

It's pretty good for Frazier.  Bills had the best (statically) D (against the schedule such as it was).  He's not going to be fired ever by McD, no matter how badly the D collapses in the next playoffs again. 

[phypon]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBobs said:

 

It just doesn't make sense though.

 

Everybody struggles with the Chiefs. They're a great team and it's going to be a struggle to contain them, especially in big games. In 11 playoff games they've been held to less than 30 points twice.

 

Saying that the solution to our mixed record in a very small sample against the Chiefs is to take a proven statistical strength and weaken it in the hopes of changing the result against the Chiefs is silly. It's like losing a few hands of blackjack with 20 and saying you know what, I'm going to hit 20 because I can't beat the dealer when they have 21. The odds of weakening our position is just so much higher than the odds that one of these retread coaches improves what is already a strength.

You make a very valid point and I do understand your stance and what you are saying.  I'm not trying to argue with you at all here, just want to say that upfront.  I do think there are two different views on this topic.  I'm in the camp where I've been skeptical of our D and I don't have confidence in the product that has been what we've seen over the last few years.  I don't look at it from a stats perspective in terms of DOVA and I think there are many posters here that feel the same way.  I'm open to seeing a change at DC, one with a different philosophy than we currently run on D.  Could it be worse, yup, it definitely could.  It could also be better.  At this point, I think the D has peaked and we've seen the best we are going to with the current D.  I also think there is room for improvement and that the current philosophy of the D will not get us to where we want to be.

 

The only thing I would say that other posters have pointed out is that it's not just a sample size against KC.  It's a sample size against contenders as opposed to lesser quality teams, coaches, and QB's.  I think that is the point other posters are trying to make.

 

[ndirish1978]

8 pages and no one has asked who Lesile is? Board is slippin'

[HamptonBillsfan]

Leslie wears out his welcome in every place he's been. With"bend don't break" Sean, we need an aggressive, pressure the QB and create turnovers type of guy. Could you imagine a defense that gave Josh short fields and even scored points. That's a SB slam dunk.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Think one of the issues Frazier has to overcome is being in the shadows of McD.  Since McD's background is from the defensive side of the ball he gets some of the credit for the D and takes away from Frazier.  Likely part of the same issue Biemeny in KC is having as in the shadows of Reid.  Also defensive coaches are considered much less sexy than OC's from a hiring standpoint these days.  Likely Frazier isn't up on all the latest buzzwords as some 35 YO DC might be.

 

Could argue that Daboll's success was due to having Allen, but seems the NFL world tends to more give the coach the credit for making the player.  Likely helped Daboll too in that Allen was considered to be a huge risk and not likely to ever become great, so coaching is probably given more value to Allens success than say a Mahomes.

[par73]

Frazier is doing really well, given the circumstances. I'm assuming McDermott signed off on (or called ) the disastrous 13 second defense. Explains why Frazier is still employed.

[Mailman]

On 2/8/2022 at 8:27 AM, Buffalo Boy said:

I’ll make millions on a one year deal to coach any team😎

I would do the same. I have inherent GM leadership skills.  My fantasy football success translates seamlessly...right?😏

[LABILLBACKER]

On 2/10/2022 at 3:20 AM, BobbyC81 said:

Maybe, like Farwell, Frazier will find another DC job.  😉

I'd sure like to say farewell to Frazier. 

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I'd sure like to say farewell to Frazier. 

Or “Down goes Frazier!”?

[Rick 'r Mortis]

On 2/8/2022 at 10:14 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think at times, the glimpses of the steel under the soft-speaking exterior come through.  Like when he was talking about Levi Wallace and how defenses were "picking" on him and he said "Levi needs to make a play.  If he makes a play, then they'll stop picking on him".  He was clearly challenging Levi to step up, and he did.

 

 

I've never gone into an interview without wanting the job.

 

I've sometimes changed my mind during the interview.  One time I got a speeding ticket on the way home.

Interesting.

 

I apply for jobs just to see what happens. It's actually fun. My wife asks why. I ask why not .

[Doc Brown]

On 2/10/2022 at 1:55 PM, phypon said:

The only thing I would say that other posters have pointed out is that it's not just a sample size against KC.  It's a sample size against contenders as opposed to lesser quality teams, coaches, and QB's.  I think that is the point other posters are trying to make.

That's an interesting dynamic.  He's able to feast off the bad to mediocre offenses but struggles as much as anyone when facing elite offenses.  Is it a scheme problem?  Does our scheme make us overvalue the talent of our defense when they look great against poor to middling offenses?  Specifically the LB's and secondary.  I think it's key this offseason to find guys that can generate organic pressure when we do face these elite offenses because the scheme isn't changing as long as McDermott's here.

[Nihilarian]

Everyone touting that #1 Buffalo Bills passing defense...out of 17 games, 9 were against either backups, rookies or scrub QBs. That Buffalo defense lost to two rookie QBs in 2021 in Mac Jones, Trevor Lawrence. 

 

552 yards of offense given up to the Chiefs in that playoff game. Loss to the Steelers, loss to the Colts, loss to the Patriots, loss to the Bucs...in OT with a Brady to Perriman 58 yard TD pass.

Why, because LB Tremaine Edmunds was covering a WR.

 

That 13 seconds by a Frazier defense...the guy will never live that down. Everyone will remember that disaster of a defense in covering the sidelines...while allowing two of the best receivers in the game, Hill for 19 yards, Kelce for 25 yards.  Giving them the whole middle of the field. 

 

You don't jam them at the line, don't double them?... even LB Edmunds 15 yards off the LoS, 6 DBs with 2 safeties deep in a prevent?

 

I like Leslie Frazier, just don't much care for his defense sometimes.

 

 

OTOH, Look at what the Bengals did to stymie Mahomes, Incredible. 

 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

People really want to give Frazier the credit for the 13 seconds. That was all Sean McDermott. He called timeout twice to make sure they were in the defense he wanted.

 

Doesn't make it any better but McDermott owns those defensive calls.

 

Listening to Bruce it sounds like the players were out of position. That's still coaching but what we saw on the field wasn't the plan.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[GunnerBill]

38 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

 

OTOH, Look at what the Bengals did to stymie Mahomes, Incredible. 

 

 

 

Bengals made some good adjustments and they were able to win up front in a way the Bills still struggle to (those struggles are on talent not coaching). But it still needed Patrick Mahomes to make some really poor mistakes and fail to see open receivers to work. The same as when the Bills held Mahomes in check week 5. You can have a good plan, you can execute it well, but to stymie him you need him to be off. 

 

Not taking anything away from the Bengals. But it was much on Mahomes as on them. 

2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

People really want to give Frazier the credit for the 13 seconds. That was all Sean McDermott. He called timeout twice to make sure they were in the defense he wanted.

 

Doesn't make it any better but McDermott owns those defensive calls.

 

Listening to Bruce it sounds like the players were out of position. That's still coaching but what we saw on the field wasn't the plan.

 

Yep. It is on everyone on that side of the ball. They all have to own it. McDermott, Frazier and the players. They had two plays and only needed to execute once ton win the game and failed both times. Questionable calls, mis-communication and poor execution in the biggest moment. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Bengals made some good adjustments and they were able to win up front in a way the Bills still struggle to (those struggles are on talent not coaching). But it still needed Patrick Mahomes to make some really poor mistakes and fail to see open receivers to work. The same as when the Bills held Mahomes in check week 5. You can have a good plan, you can execute it well, but to stymie him you need him to be off. 

 

Not taking anything away from the Bengals. But it was much on Mahomes as on them. 

 

Yep. It is on everyone on that side of the ball. They all have to own it. McDermott, Frazier and the players. They had two plays and only needed to execute once ton win the game and failed both times. Questionable calls, mis-communication and poor execution in the biggest moment. 

Mahomes was seeing so much 2 high safeties that he wasn't prepared for single high and 8 in Coverage. Had Buffalo rushed 3 or even 2 with 13 seconds we win the game.

 

Heck don't rush anyone. Ugh.

[Nihilarian]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Mahomes was seeing so much 2 high safeties that he wasn't prepared for single high and 8 in Coverage. Had Buffalo rushed 3 or even 2 with 13 seconds we win the game.

 

Heck don't rush anyone. Ugh.

That Buffalo defense was 15 yards off the LoS, besides the 4 D linemen!  AND the entire middle of the field was wide open!

 

The first pass to Hill for 19 yards with Edmunds an Teron Johnson making the tackle. This put them at the Kansas 44 yard line. 

 

The second pass when to Travis Kelce over the middle for 25 yards with Levi Wallace making the tackle. Now at the Buffalo 31 for a 49 yard FG.

 

The Bills were in a prevent defense, 7 defenders 15 yards off the LoS, save the D line.

 

The Bengals never went into a prevent, AND never left the entire middle of the field WIDE OPEN.

 

Now, perhaps McD needs to take the blame for that defense.

 

My point is... that everyone will remember it was Leslie Frazier as the Buffalo defensive coordinator. 

 

As for Mahomes taking the blame for that loss to the Bengals. The Chiefs won the toss in OT. Mahomes threw deep to Hill and hit him in the hands...it bounced off his hands and was intercepted by Bell. I don't put that on the QB. Hill catches that ball at the Cincy 40 and its a different game. 

 

 

[Brand J]

9 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

That Buffalo defense was 15 yards off the LoS, besides the 4 D linemen!  AND the entire middle of the field was wide open!

 

The first pass to Hill for 19 yards with Edmunds an Teron Johnson making the tackle. This put them at the Kansas 44 yard line. 

 

The second pass when to Travis Kelce over the middle for 25 yards with Levi Wallace making the tackle. Now at the Buffalo 31 for a 49 yard FG.

 

The Bills were in a prevent defense, 7 defenders 15 yards off the LoS, save the D line.

 

The Bengals never went into a prevent, AND never left the entire middle of the field WIDE OPEN.

 

Now, perhaps McD needs to take the blame for that defense.

 

My point is... that everyone will remember it was Leslie Frazier as the Buffalo defensive coordinator. 

 

As for Mahomes taking the blame for that loss to the Bengals. The Chiefs won the toss in OT. Mahomes threw deep to Hill and hit him in the hands...it bounced off his hands and was intercepted by Bell. I don't put that on the QB. Hill catches that ball at the Cincy 40 and its a different game. 

 

 

I continue to say if the Bills were up by less than 3, you would’ve seen a completely different defense those last 13 seconds. And the shame in this scenario is that’s exactly how they should’ve approached it - same urgency, same reluctance to give up the “game winning” FG.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:12 AM, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

When Lovie Smith, gets a head coaching job over Frazier.  Is Lovie really better than Frazier?  Lovie’s defense was horrible last year except when he played the Jets and Lovie’s tenure in Illinois was something you would not write the books about.

 I know the Kanas City game  was a disaster and it would be hard to sell a fan base on that game but even I think Frazier is better then Lovie Smith. 

 

Somebody had to take the job

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 2/8/2022 at 9:27 AM, Buffalo Boy said:

I’ll make millions on a one year deal to coach any team😎

 

Me too, i could easily make a team tank, id have John Skelton as my OC and frazier as my dc 😉

 

 

On 2/8/2022 at 9:29 AM, ScottLaw said:

Well… he did say he doesn’t like to make adjustments to the game plan this past season …

 

Frazier said this !?!? Do you have a link anywhere