With Allen, can the Bills de-emphasize skill positions?

[Success]

With Brady retiring, it got me thinking of how the Pats were when he was QB there.  We hate them, rightfully, but it's okay to look at success and try to figure out if what worked there could apply here now.

 

The Pats blueprint was actually kind of simple:  you get a franchise QB, and you build a big O-line to protect him, and a great defense to help him win championships. Because he's such a great QB, you put receivers way down the list of priorities, because he can basically make anyone a star.

 

The only exception they really made was getting Moss.  1 time in a 20 year career.  And it didn't get them a Lombardi.

 

The opposite is what we saw w/ Marino, or even Stafford when he was w/ the Lions - the QB is so good, we have to get him the best weapons before other priorities.

 

I love Diggs and the fact that we've put a high priority on getting quality wideouts for Allen.  But is it necessary?  Does a championship formula lie more in the counter-intuitive approach?

 

[Nextmanup]

I would not want to de-emphasize skill positions, and Josh isn't Brady.  They have different skill sets despite both being great QBs.

 

I think Josh needs good WRs more than Brady did.

 

I would continue to pump assets at improving the offense, especially at skill positions.

 

 

[Brand J]

I’m content going into next year with Diggs, Davis, McKenzie (re-sign), Stevenson, Hodges, and another fast draft pick maybe in the first 3 rounds. Oh and competition for Knox, Gesicki would be a great signing even if he hardly blocks.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, Success said:

With Brady retiring, it got me thinking of how the Pats were when he was QB there.  We hate them, rightfully, but it's okay to look at success and try to figure out if what worked there could apply here now.

 

The Pats blueprint was actually kind of simple:  you get a franchise QB, and you build a big O-line to protect him, and a great defense to help him win championships. Because he's such a great QB, you put receivers way down the list of priorities, because he can basically make anyone a star.

 

The only exception they really made was getting Moss.  1 time in a 20 year career.  And it didn't get them a Lombardi.

 

Wes Welker, followed by Edelman

after Moss, Rob Gronkowski

Then they had a series of 1 year rentals in the 4k range - when you're a perennial championship contender with the GOAT at QB, it's easy to persuade an aging WR who can still play like Brandon Lloyd to come collect 100+ targets and 900 yds for you.

 

They were fortunate to develop Gronkowski  and keep him on a cheap contract for a long time.

 

At the end of his tenure there, I understood "not having enough weapons" was one of Tom's beefs, but they kept the larder pretty decently stocked for him most of his tenure.

 

NE cheaped it a lot on OL.  They had usually 3 really good guys and a bunch of fill-ins.  Their OL coach Dante Scarnecchia, Coach Scar, was a genius at whipping young or journeyman OLmen into shape and teaching them to hold in ways that weren't usually called.

 

My opinion: I live in fear that Brandon Beane will try to do what was done in Carolina, where they figured they didn't need an OL or great WR because Cam.  They rode him into the ground and ruined him.  Hopefully Beane learned What Not To Do.

 

[Niagara Dude]

22 minutes ago, Success said:

With Brady retiring, it got me thinking of how the Pats were when he was QB there.  We hate them, rightfully, but it's okay to look at success and try to figure out if what worked there could apply here now.

 

The Pats blueprint was actually kind of simple:  you get a franchise QB, and you build a big O-line to protect him, and a great defense to help him win championships. Because he's such a great QB, you put receivers way down the list of priorities, because he can basically make anyone a star.

 

The only exception they really made was getting Moss.  1 time in a 20 year career.  And it didn't get them a Lombardi.

 

The opposite is what we saw w/ Marino, or even Stafford when he was w/ the Lions - the QB is so good, we have to get him the best weapons before other priorities.

 

I love Diggs and the fact that we've put a high priority on getting quality wideouts for Allen.  But is it necessary?  Does a championship formula lie more in the counter-intuitive approach?

 

Allen still needs guys to create separation and Davis benefited because the Chiefs lost their best DB and Safety along with the fact they were not going to allow Diggs to beat them.

[Dr. Who]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wes Welker, followed by Edelman

after Moss, Rob Gronkowski

Then they had a series of 1 year rentals in the 4k range - when you're a perennial championship contender with the GOAT at QB, it's easy to persuade an aging WR who can still play like Brandon Lloyd to come collect 100+ targets and 900 yds for you.

 

They were fortunate to develop Gronkowski  and keep him on a cheap contract for a long time.

 

At the end of his tenure there, I understood "not having enough weapons" was one of Tom's beefs, but they kept the larder pretty decently stocked for him most of his tenure.

 

NE cheaped it a lot on OL.  They had usually 3 really good guys and a bunch of fill-ins.  Their OL coach Dante Scarnecchia, Coach Scar, was a genius at whipping young or journeyman OLmen into shape and teaching them to hold in ways that weren't usually called.

 

My opinion: I live in fear that Brandon Beane will try to do what was done in Carolina, where they figured they didn't need an OL or great WR because Cam.  They rode him into the ground and ruined him.  Hopefully Beane learned What Not To Do.

 

Ughh, what an awful scenario. Simply can't be allowed, like the entire board should crusade if it starts to look like that is the plan.

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wes Welker, followed by Edelman

after Moss, Rob Gronkowski

Then they had a series of 1 year rentals in the 4k range - when you're a perennial championship contender with the GOAT at QB, it's easy to persuade an aging WR who can still play like Brandon Lloyd to come collect 100+ targets and 900 yds for you.

 

They were fortunate to develop Gronkowski  and keep him on a cheap contract for a long time.

 

At the end of his tenure there, I understood "not having enough weapons" was one of Tom's beefs, but they kept the larder pretty decently stocked for him most of his tenure.

 

NE cheaped it a lot on OL.  They had usually 3 really good guys and a bunch of fill-ins.  Their OL coach Dante Scarnecchia, Coach Scar, was a genius at whipping young or journeyman OLmen into shape and teaching them to hold in ways that weren't usually called.

 

My opinion: I live in fear that Brandon Beane will try to do what was done in Carolina, where they figured they didn't need an OL or great WR because Cam.  They rode him into the ground and ruined him.  Hopefully Beane learned What Not To Do.

 

 

I listened to Beano's presser today. He doesn't sound like a man de-emphasising offense. Indeed he said protecting Josh and solidifying the line was "a priority".

[Dr. Who]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I listened to Beano's presser today. He doesn't sound like a man de-emphasising offense. Indeed he said protecting Josh and solidifying the line was "a priority".

I did not listen, but I trust your take. Does protecting Josh limit to the oline or does it include the skill positions, because I think the latter should still be addressed early rather than later in the draft?

[Niagara Dude]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wes Welker, followed by Edelman

after Moss, Rob Gronkowski

Then they had a series of 1 year rentals in the 4k range - when you're a perennial championship contender with the GOAT at QB, it's easy to persuade an aging WR who can still play like Brandon Lloyd to come collect 100+ targets and 900 yds for you.

 

They were fortunate to develop Gronkowski  and keep him on a cheap contract for a long time.

 

At the end of his tenure there, I understood "not having enough weapons" was one of Tom's beefs, but they kept the larder pretty decently stocked for him most of his tenure.

 

NE cheaped it a lot on OL.  They had usually 3 really good guys and a bunch of fill-ins.  Their OL coach Dante Scarnecchia, Coach Scar, was a genius at whipping young or journeyman OLmen into shape and teaching them to hold in ways that weren't usually called.

 

My opinion: I live in fear that Brandon Beane will try to do what was done in Carolina, where they figured they didn't need an OL or great WR because Cam.  They rode him into the ground and ruined him.  Hopefully Beane learned What Not To Do.

 

This is why the Bills need an upgrade at the RB position,  you cannot continue to see Josh take all these hits.  Singletary played well to finish out the year but I still don't believe he is a starting RB on a title team. Get a 3 down back and limit Allen's runs or designed runs until the playoffs

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Dr. Who said:

I did not listen, but I trust your take. Does protecting Josh limit to the oline or does it include the skill positions, because I think the latter should still be addressed early rather than later in the draft?

 

So he talked about both but when he talked about protection he meant the line in particular. But he talked about weapons a lot as well. 

 

He also said he "expects Beasley back" but only after being pressed having sort of avoided the question twice and saying "Cole can still play in this league." 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So he talked about both but when he talked about protection he meant the line in particular. But he talked about weapons a lot as well. 

 

He also said he "expects Beasley back" but only after being pressed having sort of avoided the question twice and saying "Cole can still play in this league." 

 

When he said, unsolicited, that "Cole can still play in this league".........that was comical.

 

If they bring him back I will be f*cking shocked. 😆

[CincyBillsFan]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Wes Welker, followed by Edelman

after Moss, Rob Gronkowski

Then they had a series of 1 year rentals in the 4k range - when you're a perennial championship contender with the GOAT at QB, it's easy to persuade an aging WR who can still play like Brandon Lloyd to come collect 100+ targets and 900 yds for you.

 

They were fortunate to develop Gronkowski  and keep him on a cheap contract for a long time.

 

At the end of his tenure there, I understood "not having enough weapons" was one of Tom's beefs, but they kept the larder pretty decently stocked for him most of his tenure.

 

NE cheaped it a lot on OL.  They had usually 3 really good guys and a bunch of fill-ins.  Their OL coach Dante Scarnecchia, Coach Scar, was a genius at whipping young or journeyman OLmen into shape and teaching them to hold in ways that weren't usually called.

 

My opinion: I live in fear that Brandon Beane will try to do what was done in Carolina, where they figured they didn't need an OL or great WR because Cam.  They rode him into the ground and ruined him.  Hopefully Beane learned What Not To Do.

 

I believe they should do the opposite.  The NE Patriots were able to take this approach because even only 5 years ago the NFL was a very different beast then it is today. IMO the Bills should double down on skill players for the offense.

 

Bottom line is that over the last 4 years KC has been more successful then NE and they  didn't do it by depriving Mahomes of elite offensive weapons. 

 

The Bills only have one elite level skill player and that's Diggs.  Hopefully Knox & Davis might be able to make that jump but as good as Singleterry was at the end of this season he will never be an elite RB. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 2022 by CincyBillsFan

[DrPJax]

6 minutes ago, Allen2Diggs said:

Tampa did not "de-emphasize skill positions"

 

They already had Godwin and Mike Evans (arguably one of the best wr duo's in the league)

 

Then once Brady was on board, they got Gronk, Antonio Brown, and Fournette.

 

They gave him a huge arsenal of weapons to work with, so I don't really understand your point. If anything, we need to keep giving Josh weapons (especially with Sanders and McKenzie likely gone)

 

 

The OP’s point was how THE PATS treated Brady , he only mentioned the Bucs in reference to Bradys retirement.  I think it’s obvious the Bucs were loaded, and was a in direct opposition to Bradys last years with the Pats ! 

[nucci]

why would you de-emphasize the skills positions? If anything you get more...look what happened when KC took away Diggs and Knox...Davis was open

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I believe they should do the opposite.  The NE Patriots were able to take this approach because even only 5 years ago the NFL was a very different beast then it is today. IMO the Bills should double down on skill players for the offense.

 

Bottom line is that over the last 4 years KC has been more successful then NE and they  didn't do it by depriving Mahomes of elite offensive weapons. 

 

The Bills only have one elite level skill player and that's Diggs.  Hopefully Knox & Davis might be able to make that jump but as good as Singleterry was at the end of this season he will never be an elite RB.

 

My point was that the Pats kept Brady with at least 2 premier skill weapons for most of his tenure.

[CaptnCoke11]

I hate the off-season… 

[Brandon]

I don't think that's a good idea. It just puts more pressure on Allen to carry the load himself.  He can't keep it up forever.  

[Scott7975]

No you don't de-emphasize them.  Brady still had Gronk.  Hernandez.  Welker and Edelman are highly underrated here but they were as good as Beasley or better.  Brady always had talent around him.  Were they all superstars?  No but they were still very very good.  Imagine Mahomes without Kelce and Hill.  Imagine Josh with Zay Jones and Kelvin Benjamin these last two season.  Our offense would have still been garbage.

Edited January 29, 2022 by Scott7975

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

When he said, unsolicited, that "Cole can still play in this league".........that was comical.

 

If they bring him back I will be f*cking shocked. 😆

 

The whole thing was typical Beane. Even when he tries to play his cards close to his chest he tells you things without meaning to. His language, his turns of phrase, his tempo, he tells you what he thinks without saying "I think he was good" or "yea he sucks we need to move on." 

 

He is a great listen. His end of season pressers are fantastic as are his pre-draft ones. I picture Sean watching them head in hands thinking "shut up Brandon stop telling them things!" I reckon you could listen to Sean speak to the press for 3 days and get nothing. Beane speaks for 3 minutes he has told you something.

Just now, Scott7975 said:

No you don't de-emphasize them.  Brady still had Gronk.  Hernandez.  Welker and Edelman are highly underrated here but they were as good as Beasley or better.  Brady always had talent around him.  Were they all superstars.  No but they were still very very good.  Imagine Mahomes without Kelce and Hill.  Imagine Josh with Zay Jones and Kelvin Benjamin these last two season.  Our offense would have still been garbage.

 

As good as Beasley or better? Err... yea. They were better. Not close IMO.

[Mat68]

Cb or Wr rd 1.  I feel like Dotson from PSU would fit the offense perfectly.  Idk if he will be there at 25 but could be.