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Josh Allen's Running Ability


KzooMike
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It's weird the things fans forget.

 

The issue of his surprising running ability was a big topic early in his career..........he DID use a trainer to get MUCH faster right before and then after he was drafted...........the trainer was Ryan Flaherty.  Nike’s senior director of performance. 

 

He increased Allen's stride length by getting his heels much higher off the ground like an olympic sprinter.

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2 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Josh has turned out to be an elite running QB. It's a huge part of his game and has given us some incredible moments over the years with his hurdles and running over defenders.    

 

I guess the question is, did the Bills know what he was capable of outside of some mobility? This isn't mobility, this is the best running QB in the NFL. 

 

Josh ran an unofficial, 4.76 and in college  had 767 yards on 237 carries, a 3.2 average

 

Lamar had an unofficial 4.34 and in college had 4,132 yards on 655 carries, a 6.3 average 

 

Would anybody considered passing on Allen if they knew his ability to run was this strong? As far as arm talent, he was a consensus #1 in the draft. We haven't seen a prospect with top arm talent and elite running come out of the draft since Michael Vick. Running ability as a QB seems to be an area that teams don't really miss on in evaluation. It's shocking we have a guy who didn't flash it to this extent until his pro career.

 

Did anybody really know? Thoughts?

FIFY!!!

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4 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

The issue of his surprising running ability was a big topic early in his career..........

 

Allen literally put up the greatest six game stretch of rushing a QB had ever given the NFL by the end of his rookie year. Not Vick, not Newton, not Kaepernick, not Cunningham and not even Lamar Jackson up to that point. In terms of what Allen did with his legs in those six games (back to back to back 100 yard rushing games and then some) it was a massive surprise what Allen was able to do with his legs. And imagine, if he were a limited passer in some ways like Jackson, Allen's career rushing numbers would probably be very close to Jackson's. 

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I think about this a lot. No one who scouted Allen, even his supporters, thought he would be an elite runner. I bet even Beane would admit be didn't expect this.

 

For a long time I have thought that one day a QB would come onto the scene who was an elite passer AND runner, and would take the league by storm. It's why I supported Tyrod his first couple years here and was higher on Lamar Jackson pre-draft than most on here. Turns out we were lucky enough to end up with that unicorn.

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2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

Josh was the rare athlete who was continuing to develop physically well into college and beyond.  His running ability has simply and improbably improved post-college.

 

2 hours ago, KzooMike said:

That is how I see it, it just couldn't have been missed in this obvious of a way. I see him growing into being even more athletic in the Pro's and then combining that with his competitive nature and a need to survive. I think he just was forced to try it more when he was a rookie and then built a ton of confidence in his ability likely starting with the leap in Minnesota.   

You’re both right. Josh was a late bloomer. That pic of him and Carr at a QB camp in their mid-teens is stark by comparison. Carr looks fully matured except for eventual height. Josh looks like a jag. The inches and pounds came quickly afterward and he’s still figuring out what he can do on the run. Even at Wyoming, he was thinner and just finishing his physique. He took everyone -including himself- by surprise. Even Anthony Barr (his 1st NFL Leap Victim) said “I didn’t know he was THAT fast”.
Neither did Josh.

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56 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

It's weird the things fans forget.

 

The issue of his surprising running ability was a big topic early in his career..........he DID use a trainer to get MUCH faster right before and then after he was drafted...........the trainer was Ryan Flaherty.  Nike’s senior director of performance. 

 

He increased Allen's stride length by getting his heels much higher off the ground like an olympic sprinter.

Every pre draft scouting report mentions his athletic ability and that he could run in the NFL 

 

Sure he got faster but thats the job of a professional.. he didn't magically become gifted running tho .. and if memory serves he worked with Flaherty pre combine too

 

He always had it ... 200 yards rushing in a juco game is insane from the QB spot.. he just needed some training

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6 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

You’re both right. Josh was a late bloomer. That pic of him and Carr at a QB camp in their mid-teens is stark by comparison. Carr looks fully matured except for eventual height. Josh looks like a jag. The inches and pounds came quickly afterward and he’s still figuring out what he can do on the run. Even at Wyoming, he was thinner and just finishing his physique. He took everyone -including himself- by surprise. Even Anthony Barr (his 1st NFL Leap Victim) said “I didn’t know he was THAT fast”.
Neither did Josh.

Yeah I swear in one of his postgame interviews early on he was surprised he could still run around so well at this level. One thing that has remained the same I guess is he's hurdled someone at every level.

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10 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

 

You’re both right. Josh was a late bloomer. That pic of him and Carr at a QB camp in their mid-teens is stark by comparison. Carr looks fully matured except for eventual height. Josh looks like a jag. 

 

That was a Fresno State QB camp I believe. Carr was the Fresno State QB in that picture... he's a full 5 years older than Allen. Allen was a teen, Carr was probably at least 20. 

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Michael Vick may have had a strong arm, but he was not a great passer like Josh is. Vick was not an efficient passer at all. Career completion percentage of 56.2% and a 2.7 INT percentage, which isn't great. His career passer rating is 80.4. He was definately below average as a passer, yes, he did have a strong arm and could sling it deep.

 

Allen said once his nickname in high school and/or college had something to do with him being slow. So he wasn't always this fast and elusive as a runner.

 

My hypothesis is that he was a late bloomer physically and that once professional strength and conditioning experts got ahold of him, and also getting some lessons in the 40 yard dash leading up to the draft, that everything clicked.

 

The thing that makes Josh special is he is a great passer and an elite, top 5 QB even without his running ability. His elite running really puts him over the top. And I think he loves running it because it helps him feel like he is playing football and taking the game into his own hands when he wants.

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3 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

Allen is not "fast for a QB", he is simply fast.  Dude runs away from DLineman like they are standing still and most LB's have issues keeping up with him.

 

I honestly don't think his 40 time is a good measure of his game speed.

 

I think he has another gear he hits when the adrenaline is pumping during the game. To back that up, he's been clocked over 20mph on runs, which is damn near the top speed of the fastest players in the league.

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3 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Josh has turned out to be an elite running QB. It's a huge part of his game and has given us some incredible moments over the years with his hurdles and running over defenders.    

 

I guess the question is, did the Bills know what he was capable of outside of some mobility? This isn't mobility, this is the 2nd best running QB in the NFL. 

 

Did anybody really know? Thoughts?

 

Terry Pegula did.  He went to scouting check on Allen with coaches and he was #1 QB he wanted.

 

Oh yea I forgot that is meddling same as providing his plane for trip and for Josh to go to Buffalo.

 

Damn meddling owner!

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9 hours ago, MJS said:

Michael Vick may have had a strong arm, but he was not a great passer like Josh is. Vick was not an efficient passer at all. Career completion percentage of 56.2% and a 2.7 INT percentage, which isn't great. His career passer rating is 80.4. He was definately below average as a passer, yes, he did have a strong arm and could sling it deep.

 

Allen said once his nickname in high school and/or college had something to do with him being slow. So he wasn't always this fast and elusive as a runner.

 

My hypothesis is that he was a late bloomer physically and that once professional strength and conditioning experts got ahold of him, and also getting some lessons in the 40 yard dash leading up to the draft, that everything clicked.

 

The thing that makes Josh special is he is a great passer and an elite, top 5 QB even without his running ability. His elite running really puts him over the top. And I think he loves running it because it helps him feel like he is playing football and taking the game into his own hands when he wants.

 

 

One thing Allen and Vick have in common is that they both have/had to throw the ball with a low trajectory to excel.  Neither has/had displayed the consistent touch that you see with some QB's.    

 

Allen has a stronger arm and he's a much larger player so his relatively low arm-angle trajectory throws aren't nearly as much of an issue as they were for Vick.

 

Having such a strong arm allows Allen to throw passes on a line that almost any other QB has to arc over the defense to complete.   The only downside is that touch and RAC yards often go hand-in-hand.  Good example was the deep throw to Diggs last game..........if Allen can lay that ball over the top and drop it in the bucket Diggs is gone for 6 instead of having to slow down and leave his feet to catch a relative fastball.    Those Jim Kelly to James Lofton bombs with lot's of RAC really don't exist in this Bills offense but to me that just means there is more upside to Allen eventually when he develops that touch.

 

Allen and Daboll have seemed to just embrace what Josh CAN do and not waste downs on touch throws that he is very inconsistent on.     I do expect over time he will develop better touch because you know he will work on it.     

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10 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Every pre draft scouting report mentions his athletic ability and that he could run in the NFL 

 

Sure he got faster but thats the job of a professional.. he didn't magically become gifted running tho .. and if memory serves he worked with Flaherty pre combine too

 

He always had it ... 200 yards rushing in a juco game is insane from the QB spot.. he just needed some training

 

 

Well of course if you don't have the physical ability then training isn't going to turn you into a star at the highest level.

 

What the training did was allow him to turn his power into open field speed...........it turned excellent scrambling ability at the Division 1 level into NFL playmaker speed.

 

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14 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

I first realized it when he totally embarrassed the dolphins just outrunning everyone a few years ago. I remember thinking to myself, “well, at least this kid is fun” as he burned Kiko Alonso up and down the field 

 

Little did I know he turned out to be electric. 
 

Am I the only one who always yells “No Josh, what’re you— wait, what, alright!!!!

 

I agree 100% 

 

The 'Kyle Williams game' was the first game he absolutely took over the game making amazing plays.

That was the first time I started thinking we may really have something special w/17

 

And he's huge, but Josh also has this incredible ability to make the first guy miss

(even free rushers)

 

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12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

It's weird the things fans forget.

 

The issue of his surprising running ability was a big topic early in his career..........he DID use a trainer to get MUCH faster right before and then after he was drafted...........the trainer was Ryan Flaherty.  Nike’s senior director of performance. 

 

He increased Allen's stride length by getting his heels much higher off the ground like an olympic sprinter.

 

Never saw that mentioned.  In any case, as I mentioned earlier, it didn't look like he was trying to run all-out at the Combine, just hard enough to get a respectable time and not hurt himself.

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17 hours ago, KzooMike said:

He's a passing scrambler, which is pretty rare. A few have existed. Probably the most comparable in ability to do both in my eyes would be Steve Young, but Josh is clearly much different than Steve Young. Both are passing scramblers but Young was like a symphony and Allen is like a Metallica concert. Young was much more refined. Allen is just a savage. Russell Wilson also has a similar game, but again, just much different. Any comp you can think of needs a touch of amphetamine, 3 inches, 30 pounds, and some uncle Rico.    

There’s a couple of great analogies there!!

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Not sure if you all caught it but on Pat McAfee today, Josh pretty much confirmed my suspicion.  He has added about 10lbs since Wyoming, now weighing in at 245, yet has managed to get faster.  As Pat likes to say, Josh is a WAGON!!!

Edited by butch rolle
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On the McAfee show Josh mentioned in highschool he was tortuga or turtle. He said the bigger he has gotten, the faster he has gotten. I think that’s why his running ability wasn’t really considered in the draft process. Scouts knew he could move well in the pocket but no one expected him to lead the league in yards per attempt.

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One personal opinion I’d like to add.

He likes to hit people, make ‘em look bad so they know who’s the Alpha.

He’s not only tough, he wants everyone to know, they’re on his block.

 

Most dynamic football player I’ve seen since Bo. 

When you’re a kid that loves football and you’re about to fall asleep, that’s what is in your head.

Being the best ever.

 

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On 1/17/2022 at 10:07 PM, Buffalo716 said:

 

I would break this down to a few things 

 

First some players play faster than their 40 time.. the juice and adrenaline of a game hype you up 

 

Second the offenses that Josh and Lamar Jackson were running were completely different.. Lamar got the benefit from a college offense that ran a spread option 

 

Josh was also under center a lot more which makes it harder to run effectively... They weren't running standard read options like is typical in college ball 

 

On the flip side.. Josh Allen's JUCO rushing stats were amazing 

 

In 8 starts he had 660 yards and 10 TDs  5.5 average

For college QBs, sacks and the lost yardage count as rush attempts so that 5.5 ypc average is likely closer to 7 on actual runs/scrambles.

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