Move Tremaine Edmunds to DE next season.

[Not at the table Karlos]

14 hours ago, billsfan714 said:

Always seems to hesitate when he blitzes.    I do worry about our DE's next year though.   Sure not looking forward to Epenesa and his 5.0 plus speed rushing the passer.

He's gotten a lot faster with his body transformation. 

[Rochesterfan]

12 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

I was going to mention this before I saw this post. I thought it was the RB, but you’re right, he was absolutely stone walled, zero power or rush technique to get around or through the guy. It doesn’t just happen with RBs either, he’s pretty easily handled by TEs as well. I don’t know how much strength his frame holds, but it’s not much. If Edmunds was Micah Parsons caliber and that much of a difference maker in the front 7, I think you could pencil us in for the Super Bowl.

 

Can I ask this - what is his coverage assignment when he blitzes like that?

 

I saw him blitz several times in the NE game (and others before) and head right into the RB, but slow down before contact and contain the RB.

 

I am not sure they are always blitzing him for pressure - especially against a guy like Jones.  Jones likes to hit the little dump offs to the backs and by blitzing him up the middle - it keeps the back in.  Then Edmunds on multiple occasions wrapped up the RB to prevent him from block/release routes or screening off routes.  I think the idea is to limit the throws Jones was comfortable making and force him to throw to WRs - where we make plays.

 

He does not play with strength/power at all - he plays with leverage- when he takes on tackles, guards, RBs, TEs, - anything - he typically plays a square up and stays an arm length away - even to the point of backing up.  It is not a normal technique, but for this defense it seems to work.

 

 

[babulator]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

When I think of Edmunds all I think about is he still can get better. He hasn't peaked yet.

 Plateaued is the word I would use.

 

I think about how dominant we could be if we had a MLB with better run stopping instincts and/or better pass rushing skills. 

 

It really just feels like he is soo much better suited to play outside, side to side, in the flat etc.  Hell, he could then over run every play (like he does now) and force things back inside. That would be better than the constant whiffs and gaping holes we have up the middle now.

 

2cents.

 

[Canadian Bills Fan]

He cant even shed blocks now with a running start....

[HIT BY SPIKES]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Man, I've never seen fans hate on an everydown LB of a #1 defense as much as Bills fans hate on Edmunds.

 

HE'S 23! He's a freak. He's played 4 years. The Bills defense ranks 2, 3, 14, and 1.

 

We don't have A DL that dominates the line of scrimmage or eats blocks. 

 

When I think of Edmunds all I think about is he still can get better. He hasn't peaked yet.

 

 

 

 

Maybe we should look at Edmunds as a 1DT whose job it is not to actually make tackles and sacks but rather overrun plays to allow other Bills players to make the tackles.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

50 minutes ago, babulator said:

 Plateaued is the word I would use.

 

I think about how dominant we could be if we had a MLB with better run stopping instincts and/or better pass rushing skills. 

 

It really just feels like he is soo much better suited to play outside, side to side, in the flat etc.  Hell, he could then over run every play (like he does now) and force things back inside. That would be better than the constant whiffs and gaping holes we have up the middle now.

 

2cents.

 

Such a terrible evaluation. Plus Edmunds length takes up so much space in the passing game that it makes up for any shortcomings you think he has in the run game.

[Solomon Grundy]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Such a terrible evaluation. Plus Edmunds length takes up so much space in the passing game that it makes up for any shortcomings you think he has in the run game.

They need a boogeyman 

[CSBill]

I would love to see him as an outside LB'er, but that would mean we need a true run-stopping Middle Linebacker, and a switch to a 4-3 scheme. I don't see either happening. But we did use a 3 LB'er set on several plays against the NE this past weekend.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

25 minutes ago, CSBill said:

I would love to see him as an outside LB'er, but that would mean we need a true run-stopping Middle Linebacker, and a switch to a 4-3 scheme. I don't see either happening. But we did use a 3 LB'er set on several plays against the NE this past weekend.

This is a passing league. Meaning base 4-3 defense is basically a sub package defense now. 

 

The Bills are one of the best pass defenses in the middle of the field. Why would we take away the main reason for that?

 

I agree Edmunds at times makes poor reads in the run game but there's a lot of traffic in our run defense to navigate through. We rarely dominate the line of scrimmage in the run game. 

 

I think Edmunds can improve that part of his game. He can also get more help in front of him.

 

NE will never consistently beat us if they have to rely on running the ball to win.

Edited December 30, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[HoofHearted]

1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Can I ask this - what is his coverage assignment when he blitzes like that?

 

I saw him blitz several times in the NE game (and others before) and head right into the RB, but slow down before contact and contain the RB.

 

I am not sure they are always blitzing him for pressure - especially against a guy like Jones.  Jones likes to hit the little dump offs to the backs and by blitzing him up the middle - it keeps the back in.  Then Edmunds on multiple occasions wrapped up the RB to prevent him from block/release routes or screening off routes.  I think the idea is to limit the throws Jones was comfortable making and force him to throw to WRs - where we make plays.

 

He does not play with strength/power at all - he plays with leverage- when he takes on tackles, guards, RBs, TEs, - anything - he typically plays a square up and stays an arm length away - even to the point of backing up.  It is not a normal technique, but for this defense it seems to work.

 

 

The play everyone is talking about was a designed blitz. However, you're not wrong. When we get into our man coverage stuff and he's responsible for the back out - if the back stays in to block then he's an add on to the rush by design, but has to rush through the outside shoulder of the back and push him back into the QB as he's still responsible for that back in man coverage. So all the chip and release stuff or screen game he'd look like a delayed blitzer but is ultimately responsible for going where the back goes.

[oldmanfan]

This stuff on Edmunds is really getting old.  Bills fans since the beginning of the team seem to pick out one player and rag on him unmercifully for whatever reason.  So a few points to consider:

 

1.  He is not truly a middle linebacker.  To have a middle linebacker, you have to have a middle, i.e. two other LBs on either side of you.  We play two LBs who line up at different spots depending on the scheme for that play.  So for those harking back to the type of run stuffing Sam Huff, Dick Butkus style of MLB, we don't have that.  We don't have a defense like that.  

 

2.  They play Edmunds at LB because he can occupy a lot of territory in the passing game.  The Bills D under Frazier and McD is set up to play pass defense.  For run defense, they ask players to do their job and occupy gaps on a given play.  Their run defense is team oriented, it is not meant to funnel the ball carrier to the classic MLB.   So when sometimes we criticize Edmunds for not making a play, we don't know what his assignment is on a given play and it could be he is doing his job in the scheme called for but guys around him are not.  

 

3.  The concern about his anticipation of plays is difficult to ascertain, again because we don't know what his assignments are on given plays.  I would say as you watch him he seems to react a split second early at times, as if he is thinking for that split second vs. reacting to what he sees.  

 

3.  I would agree that Edmunds, when he gets to the point of attack, can be more physical in shedding blockers and such.

 

Everyone wants to see Edmunds become McD's Luke Kuechly for our D.  I expect McD would love that too.  Problem is, Luke Kuechly has a really good chance to be a first ballot HOFer.  Those kinds of guys don't come around very often.  For now, Edmonds fits the bill for what Mcd wants in his defense, a guy with size and range that can cover a lot of ground.  

[Rochesterfan]

19 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

The play everyone is talking about was a designed blitz. However, you're not wrong. When we get into our man coverage stuff and he's responsible for the back out - if the back stays in to block then he's an add on to the rush by design, but has to rush through the outside shoulder of the back and push him back into the QB as he's still responsible for that back in man coverage. So all the chip and release stuff or screen game he'd look like a delayed blitzer but is ultimately responsible for going where the back goes.

 

Yep - in the NE in particular - there were several plays exactly like that where he came through and wrapped up the RB in the backfield.  
 

Without being a part of the team - it sure looked to me like he had a specific job in the game plan and he executed that part perfectly.

 

The play in where everyone seems to be complaining- it looked to be like he and maybe Oliver had a twist going on and he attacked into the RB and was basically taking up space - so the twist could come around.

 

He would then have responsibility for the QB escaping the pocket through the front - so he can’t just blow through because then they lose responsibility.

 

At least that is what I saw from the angles at home.  

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Can I ask this - what is his coverage assignment when he blitzes like that?

 

I saw him blitz several times in the NE game (and others before) and head right into the RB, but slow down before contact and contain the RB.

 

I am not sure they are always blitzing him for pressure - especially against a guy like Jones.  Jones likes to hit the little dump offs to the backs and by blitzing him up the middle - it keeps the back in.  Then Edmunds on multiple occasions wrapped up the RB to prevent him from block/release routes or screening off routes.  I think the idea is to limit the throws Jones was comfortable making and force him to throw to WRs - where we make plays.

 

He does not play with strength/power at all - he plays with leverage- when he takes on tackles, guards, RBs, TEs, - anything - he typically plays a square up and stays an arm length away - even to the point of backing up.  It is not a normal technique, but for this defense it seems to work.

 

 

Vs the pats, 3rd down on the first series where we got the sack, Edmunds rushed and got stoned instantly, but Ed stunted around him and used him to pick the c/g that was blocking him and have an open lane to the qb.  It’s been an effective move for us this season.  I’ve seen milano use dL as picks on more than a few occasions leading to pressure

[stinky finger]

17 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Is this like a freakin' TBD New Years Tradition or something?

 

Seems like we get this every freakin' season.

 

Edmunds is not an NFL DE.  It's not just the 40 time, it's the bend and the agility.

 

 

[babulator]

1 hour ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Such a terrible evaluation. Plus Edmunds length takes up so much space in the passing game that it makes up for any shortcomings you think he has in the run game.

What you call terrible most unbiased and unemotional people see as glaringly obvious. Do you see him as an effective run stopper? pass rusher? Please share.

 

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make about his long arms. Because he has long arms, he doesn't have to be a good run stopper... what? Maybe you could elaborate?

 

I'd watch the tape again. It's very hard to make the case that he's a good or even fair run stopper.

1 hour ago, Solomon Grundy said:

They need a boogeyman 

 Or we could be giving an honest assessment of player and a position that we need improvement at. *shrugs*

[Solomon Grundy]

7 minutes ago, babulator said:

What you call terrible most unbiased and unemotional people see as glaringly obvious. Do you see him as an effective run stopper? pass rusher? Please share.

 

I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make about his long arms. Because he has long arms, he doesn't have to be a good run stopper... what? Maybe you could elaborate?

 

I'd watch the tape again. It's very hard to make the case that he's a good or even fair run stopper.

 Or we could be giving an honest assessment of player and a position that we need improvement at. *shrugs*

The league and the players in the league says differently i.e. pro bowl appearances. **shrugs**

Edited December 30, 2021 by Solomon Grundy

[babulator]

2 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

The league and the players in the league says differently i.e. pro bowl appearances. **shrugs**

The list of overrated pro bowl players and pro bowl snubs is vast. I'm not sure that makes your case he's either an effective run stopper or pass rusher.

 

We clearly disagree. I'm not hating on the person, just wanting an upgrade or a positional change for him and the team.

[Solomon Grundy]

3 minutes ago, babulator said:

he's either an effective run stopper or pass rusher.

Or doing exactly what Leslie Frazier wants him to do. Kinda like we wonder why the DBs play so far off the receivers. I’ve yet to hear the coaching staff complain about his play. 

[babulator]

1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Or doing exactly what Leslie Frazier wants him to do. Kinda like we wonder why the DBs play so far off the receivers. I’ve yet to hear the coaching staff complain about his play. 

The team has alot invested in Tremaine obviously. They're giving him every confidence and some would say more than deserved. I think his next contract talks will be more revealing about how they feel about the position. My vote is to move on. 

[streetkings01]

When Star, Beasley and Edmunds are gone who will become the new whipping boys around these parts?