MasterStrategist Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 Maybe this has already been said, but if you want to to shut down a running game then go with a 5 man dline. That puts a lot more pressure on the secondary and LBs, as well as limiting coverage options/blitz schemes. But it's a possibility, closest thing I've seen us do is move our 3rd LB to "on" the ball over the TE or 9 technique. We shall see what adjustments are made, but I'm confident in Mcd and Frazier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 4 hours ago, MJS said: The Bills are top 5 against the run already. Statistically They don’t pass the eye test And we all know in reality, elite backs — Darrick Henry and Jon Taylor — run wild 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said: Really? disagree they gave up at halftime Klein would be our 3rd choice at LB Klein was already in because Edmunds was out. That is the point. So to play a 3rd linebacker and a 4-3 base meant taking a top 5 or 6 nickel corner in the league out to put either Andre Smith or Tyrel Dodson (4th and 5th choice) in. 8 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said: Maybe this has already been said, but if you want to to shut down a running game then go with a 5 man dline. That puts a lot more pressure on the secondary and LBs, as well as limiting coverage options/blitz schemes. But it's a possibility, closest thing I've seen us do is move our 3rd LB to "on" the ball over the TE or 9 technique. We shall see what adjustments are made, but I'm confident in Mcd and Frazier. They did a bit of that in San Fran last year with the bear front looks and Edmunds lining up on the edge on early downs. I really think Edmunds being down against Indy played in to their decision just to play their normal nickel base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenigmusx Posted November 28, 2021 Author Share Posted November 28, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Nextmanup said: Since we're proposing new ideas to help the team here... How about Josh Allen returns all punts? Also, how about Josh Allen play QB and WR on the same play? Crazy? Or brilliant? 🤔 This kind of sarcasm is frustrating… I was not once suggesting that we play one cornerback. I was suggesting that Siran Neal at corner on the outside might more sense than Dane in a true 4-4-3 package or a 4-3-4 package. This is not a suggestion that this should be a permanent base defense but rather a package or look that gives a size advantage and the ability to deal with a run first offense. Obviously the Nickel package will still be a big part of what we do. That said we never show a true 4-3-4 base and that is a bigger more aggressive or downhill look for a physical offense. I am pretty knowledgeable when it comes to X/O’s these lightweight nickel base defenses are a construct of the modern pass first NFL. To suggest a 4-3 base is outlandish seems to throw out a ton of historically great defenses. 3 WR set means a nickel but a heavy package warrants a heavy D. If the Colts line up with two TE’s we shouldn’t counter it by run blitzing a 180 pound safety. Come on size warrants size and creates favorable match ups. I prefer the 4-3 to the 5-2 because it gives the LB’s the ability to come down hill and fill gaps reading as long as the down lineman hold gap integrity. Edited November 28, 2021 by Lenigmusx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 6 hours ago, delirious said: Terrible take. When that stat actually mattered against forealz run heavy teams (Titans and Colts), they were no-shows. you think that's a terrible take, it's a fact, but no comment on a 4-4-3 defensive alignment? 3 in the secondary will take away the run, but of course there will be a lot of passing yards surrendered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billzgobowlin Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 The only thing that will improve it right now is a run stuffer like Star. The defense is solid 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirious Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 12 minutes ago, klos63 said: you think that's a terrible take, it's a fact, but no comment on a 4-4-3 defensive alignment? 3 in the secondary will take away the run, but of course there will be a lot of passing yards surrendered. It's a fact with no context. It doesn't explain the Bills really easy schedule and it doesn't explain the terrible QBs the Bills have been fortunate to play against. The reason it's a terrible take is because it was said as if there is no issue at all with the defense. I've said it elsewhere, what I think can help the run defense get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 Just now, delirious said: It's a fact with no context. It doesn't explain the Bills really easy schedule and it doesn't explain the terrible QBs the Bills have been fortunate to play against. The reason it's a terrible take is because it was said as if there is no issue at all with the defense. I've said it elsewhere, what I think can help the run defense get better. What are your thoughts on a 3 DB alignment? With Neal being one of them, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenigmusx Posted November 28, 2021 Author Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, klos63 said: What are your thoughts on a 3 DB alignment? With Neal being one of them, Only in a very specific package when we see a two TE two back offense. Obviously it depends on what the opposition has personnel wise. Indy ran this grouping several times with only on WR on the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirious Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 1 hour ago, klos63 said: What are your thoughts on a 3 DB alignment? With Neal being one of them, I'm for trying anything this season. I think the bigger issue is at least getting a bigger younger 1Tech in the upcoming draft. I personally also like bigger defensive ends, almost 5tech worthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockinon Posted November 28, 2021 Share Posted November 28, 2021 I say give the young CB a chance and get Star back in the lineup, we're good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo ill Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 9 hours ago, delirious said: It's hyperbole, if you'd like me to use a more descript name, then fine. They struggled. Satisfied? Nah. Saying they were "no shows" against Tennessee and Indianapolis is spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 11 hours ago, dma0034 said: The Bills definitely game plan for each team and whomever they meet in the playoffs will have what they do best challenged. Not a doubt in my mind if the Bills play the Colts or Browns in the playoffs they'll load the box and make Wentz and Baker beat you. i hope you are right, but odd they didn't do this the first time we played the colts? 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: Klein was already in because Edmunds was out. That is the point. So to play a 3rd linebacker and a 4-3 base meant taking a top 5 or 6 nickel corner in the league out to put either Andre Smith or Tyrel Dodson (4th and 5th choice) in. They did a bit of that in San Fran last year with the bear front looks and Edmunds lining up on the edge on early downs. I really think Edmunds being down against Indy played in to their decision just to play their normal nickel base. good analysis, but it was insane not to try so something different as the game went on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 7 hours ago, klos63 said: What are your thoughts on a 3 DB alignment? With Neal being one of them, I thought the Bills tried playing Neal on the boundary in preseason, and while he didn’t suck, the results weren’t good either 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 4 hours ago, RyanC883 said: good analysis, but it was insane not to try so something different as the game went on. They actually had a really good chat about this on the UK coverage of Green Bay and the Rams last night. Dante Hall was in studio and he was lamenting the Rams staying in zone while Rodgers carved them up but admitted coordinators just do not like going to something they haven't practiced all week. He was saying as a general rule coaches say that tends to cause too many obvious execution break downs from players unprepared for the wrinkles and that is why even when it doesn't look to be working coaches are often reticent to make big scheme adjustments if they are not big adjustments that they have practiced. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 22 hours ago, delirious said: Terrible take. When that stat actually mattered against forealz run heavy teams (Titans and Colts), they were no-shows. Terrible take. They were down 2 key defenders versus the Colts and did a good job versus Henry with the exception of 1 run, where 3 Titans were holding our defenders. The rest of the season they stuffed the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 The Bills D got steam rolled against the Colts. To some extent the Titans game can be explained away, the stats are skewed by a 76 yard TD run that if removed he had 19 carries for 67 yards and 2 TD's. Now the long run happened, we know that but as been pointed out there was some clear holding on that play so if the zebra had thrown the hanky that game likely flips to a bills win and the running numbers don't look as bad. If they get Star back and have Edmunds we should be good against the run vs NE, its just the play action and short/intermediate passes they also need to shut down.....without Tre Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirious Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 4 hours ago, auburnbillsbacker said: Terrible take. They were down 2 key defenders versus the Colts and did a good job versus Henry with the exception of 1 run, where 3 Titans were holding our defenders. The rest of the season they stuffed the run. Terrible take. Easiest schedule playing crap QBs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 On 11/28/2021 at 1:44 PM, Just in Atlanta said: Statistically They don’t pass the eye test And we all know in reality, elite backs — Darrick Henry and Jon Taylor — run wild …when AJ Klein is starting and having a historically awful afternoon lol. 75% of Henry’s yards came on that one play with like 10 blatant holds also. Ten beat us with play action when we overcommitted to stopping the run imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 2 hours ago, delirious said: Terrible take. Easiest schedule playing crap QBs. I dunno. I am interested in what else this One Simple Trick can accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoHuddleKelly12 Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 Our offense taking care of business and forcing such run first teams into a catch-up/shootout type game would be the best “fix” for our D…we have the octane to take it to anybody in this league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted November 29, 2021 Share Posted November 29, 2021 On 11/28/2021 at 9:29 AM, delirious said: Terrible take. When that stat actually mattered against forealz run heavy teams (Titans and Colts), they were no-shows. They were missing their best run defender. Star makes a difference. Look at last year versus this year. Yes, one player can make or break a defense. The 2 most important players to our defensive success are White and Star. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 On 11/29/2021 at 4:10 AM, GunnerBill said: They actually had a really good chat about this on the UK coverage of Green Bay and the Rams last night. Dante Hall was in studio and he was lamenting the Rams staying in zone while Rodgers carved them up but admitted coordinators just do not like going to something they haven't practiced all week. He was saying as a general rule coaches say that tends to cause too many obvious execution break downs from players unprepared for the wrinkles and that is why even when it doesn't look to be working coaches are often reticent to make big scheme adjustments if they are not big adjustments that they have practiced. thanks, appreciate the insight! I get the coaches issue there. But then, shouldn't they practice more than one scheme all week, and shouldn't pro players be able to adapt. Just seems like most coaches are way too stubborn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted November 30, 2021 Share Posted November 30, 2021 1 hour ago, RyanC883 said: thanks, appreciate the insight! I get the coaches issue there. But then, shouldn't they practice more than one scheme all week, and shouldn't pro players be able to adapt. Just seems like most coaches are way too stubborn. I think coaches as a rule are a bit stubborn. It is an asset (being able to ignore the noise) and a flaw. I think the thing is defense especially is a reactive pursuit for the most part in the NFL. Practicing a scheme to play team A who run scheme Y is not the same as using that defense against team B who run scheme X. And coaching multiple different options per week.... I mean ideally, sure. But practice time is limited too. And I say all this as someone who all week in the run up to Indy said I'd rather play some 4-3 against their offense. I am not saying coaches get everything right - they definitely don't - but it is not as easy as just switching up scheme completely mid-game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delirious Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Chalk another one up for Bills getting their mouths smacked against big mauling Olines? Can some of you posters who proposed changes to the defense apply to be the Bills D coordinator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPL7 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 CAN SOMEONE ANYONE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE BILLS NEVER EVER GO 5 DOWN LINEMAN??? Please! I have been asking this for 3 seasons! I don't get why on obvious run downs they refuse to stack the line. It's not a mystery that they are going to get ran on. And wow, wouldn't you know it, the opposing team gets the first down far more times than not. Other coaches must be salivating at running against the Bills. It's so easy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 2 hours ago, JPL7 said: CAN SOMEONE ANYONE EXPLAIN TO ME WHY THE BILLS NEVER EVER GO 5 DOWN LINEMAN??? Please! I have been asking this for 3 seasons! I don't get why on obvious run downs they refuse to stack the line. It's not a mystery that they are going to get ran on. And wow, wouldn't you know it, the opposing team gets the first down far more times than not. Other coaches must be salivating at running against the Bills. It's so easy! They actually had all 179 lbs of Levi Wallace out there on some plays when the Pats were going against the wind and weren't making any pretense of throwing the ball. I'm not saying you have to play all linemen and linebackers, but there is something about adjusting your personnel to what the offense is sending out there and what the game conditions appear to be dictating. On 11/29/2021 at 12:46 PM, ChronicAndKnuckles said: Star makes a difference. Wasn't he pushed back 3 yards on a Mac Jones QB sneak? Sure, he may have been double-teamed some, but he had a truly unimpactful game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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