[Edit] Jon Gruden resigns over controversial emails discovered in WFT investigation

[BillsShredder83]

1 hour ago, Jobot said:

CRAZY that removing OJ has 1000% been assessed by the Bills and determined that removal of his name would receive PR backlash... The world we live in todaySMH

Honestly I think its one of those things where they just don't want it back in the news cycle, which I disagree with.

 

Just take it down in the off season. No press statement or announcement, just do it quietly and give a generic "it was an in house decision, which we will have no further comment on" and be done with it

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

He certainly was acquitted and, from a legal perspective, that is all that matters. However, there was actual evidence - it wasn't just hearsay. It was clear the acquittal was more a matter of jury nullification than it was lack of evidence.

 

I'm not so sure about that.

 

OJ was my only hero growing up so I followed the trial obsessively.  There were problems with what looked to be planted/tampered evidence and the forensics in general.  The LA police - and Mark Fuhrman in particular - had credibility issues.  Barry Scheck did a masterful job seeding doubt about the forensic evidence and Johnny Cochran brought race up at the right times and delivered the memorable line about the glove: "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit."  

 

All in all, I felt OJ was guilty but wasn't sure I could vote to convict.  The defense - especially, in my mind, Scheck - planted seeds of doubt.  

 

I've never read the book, OJ is Innocent and I Can Prove It, but many who have became convinced that Jason Simpson (OJ's troubled son) was the actual killer.  

 

No murder weapon, no witnesses, faulty forensics...  the prosecution didn't have the strongest of cases.

 

 

Edited October 13, 2021 by hondo in seattle

[uticaclub]

2 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Honestly I think its one of those things where they just don't want it back in the news cycle, which I disagree with.

 

Just take it down in the off season. No press statement or announcement, just do it quietly and give a generic "it was an in house decision, which we will have no further comment on" and be done with it

Big difference between OJ & Gruden

[marky]

Here's the Super Bowl halftime show, going up against the Olympics run by marxists who just murdered millions and is trying to conquer us. I wonder what's going on?
 

Quote

Yo, straight putting it down, getting my scoot on
It's jumping off in Compton so I gots to get my loot on
And come up on me some furniture or something
Got a VCR in the back of my car
That I ganked from the Slauson Swap Meet
And ****** ******* better not try to stop me
'Cause they will see that I can't be stopped
'Cause I'ma #### my Glock and pop 'til they all drop

3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I'm not so sure about that.

 

OJ was my only hero growing up so I followed the trial obsessively.  There were problems with what looked to be planted/tampered evidence and the forensics in general.  The LA police - and Mark Fuhrman in particular - had credibility issues.  Barry Scheck did a masterful job seeding doubt about the forensic evidence and Johnny Cochran brought race up at the right times and delivered the memorable line about the glove: "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit."  

 

All in all, I felt OJ was guilty but wasn't sure I could vote to convict.  The defense - especially, in my mind, Scheck - planted seeds of doubt.  

 

I've never read the book, OJ is Innocent and I Can Prove It, but many who have became convinced that Jason Simpson (OJ's troubled son) was the actual killer.  

 

No murder weapon, no witnesses, faulty forensics...  the prosecution didn't have the strongest of cases.

 

 

 

But Chauvin gets life in supermax/

[hondo in seattle]

6 minutes ago, Neo said:

Not at all disagreeing with you ….  your post inspired a thought in me.

 

Every adult I know can be cancelled.   The instincts to do so are small and petty.   We’ve brought this on ourselves.

 

All three sentences are not inconsistent with “there’s bad stuff in this world that must stop.”  Confront transgressions firmly but with compassion.   If the offender apologizes, if you sense sincerity, move on.   That’s both common sense and grace.

 

And, yes, sometimes the apologies start with denials and rationalizations.  That’s human nature when the lights go on and your hand’s in the cookie jar.

The virtuous mob needs a hand mirror.

 

Ever been in an NFL locker room?  Gruden is Everyman.

 

 

 

 

I spent time in high school locker rooms a few decades ago.  Maybe you would have been right back then.  But not any more.  Not according to Aaron Rodgers:

 

"I know that there's opinions similar to that, but I feel they're few and far between.  The player and the coach of today is a more empathetic, advanced, progressive, loving, connected type of person."

 

www.nfl.com/news/aaron-rodgers-no-place-in-the-game-for-opinions-jon-gruden-expressed-in-emails

[BillsShredder83]

10 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Big difference between OJ & Gruden

I meant the taking down of OJ in case I did a crap job of conveying that 

[Neo]

3 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

 

I spent time in high school locker rooms a few decades ago.  Maybe you would have been right back then.  But not any more.  Not according to Aaron Rodgers:

 

"I know that there's opinions similar to that, but I feel they're few and far between.  The player and the coach of today is a more empathetic, advanced, progressive, loving, connected type of person."

 

www.nfl.com/news/aaron-rodgers-no-place-in-the-game-for-opinions-jon-gruden-expressed-in-emails

 

Maybe those hundreds of emails the NFL has were between Gruden and my high school teammates, sent decades ago.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

And OJ didn’t say this about the team’s owner: ‘He also asked [Bruce] Allen to tell Bryan Glazer, whose family owns the Buccaneers, to perform oral sex on him. Allen reportedly responded that Glazer would “take you up on that offer.”’

 

Yeah. It's obvious that Gruden didnt get ousted for the bigotry.

 

The League released the emails because he insulted Goodell. The Bud removed him from the Ring because he insulted the owner.

 

He likely resigned because he knew that as a Head Coach, he could not properly do his job when all the bosses were pissed at him, and he would forever be their target.

 

Typical NFL. Absolutely nothing new for the brand.

[hondo in seattle]

18 minutes ago, beavis said:

Here's the Super Bowl halftime show, going up against the Olympics run by marxists who just murdered millions and is trying to conquer us. I wonder what's going on?
 

 

But Chauvin gets life in supermax/

 

Look, I respect all of America's good cops.  Chauvin wasn't one of them.  He killed a man, brought shame on the uniform, and deserves his time in jail.

 

The big difference is Chauvin was caught on video.  OJ's criminal act doesn't have any witnesses at all.

 

One of the tenets of American justice is known as Blackstone's Ratio: "It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

 

And that's why OJ's free.  Because he just might have been innocent.  

[UConn James]

24 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

Honestly I think its one of those things where they just don't want it back in the news cycle, which I disagree with.

 

Just take it down in the off season. No press statement or announcement, just do it quietly and give a generic "it was an in house decision, which we will have no further comment on" and be done with it

At this point, it would most likely be that they just leave it up at the Ralph and then as you say, without fanfare, just don’t put it up in the new stadium in whatever way they’re going to display ROH names/numbers. Fewer news cycles to be a distraction for the team.

[hondo in seattle]

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Yeah. It's obvious that Gruden didnt get ousted for the bigotry.

 

The League released the emails because he insulted Goodell. The Bud removed him from the Ring because he insulted the owner.

 

He likely resigned because he knew that as a Head Coach, he could not properly do his job when all the bosses were pissed at him, and he would forever be their target.

 

Typical NFL. Absolutely nothing new for the brand.

 

Gruden was cooked by his own unkind words.  He lost credibility with his black and gay athletes with his remarks.  Hell, after reading what he wrote, I wouldn't want to play for him and I'm white and straight.  

 

You might be right about how the emails got released, though.  Hard to know.

[Bob in STL]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

He had it coming right?

No.  Of course not. 

[uticaclub]

22 minutes ago, BillsShredder83 said:

I meant the taking down of OJ in case I did a crap job of conveying that 

I get it, but what OJ accused of was forgiveable and understandable, what Gruden did is completely disgusting and we must also ban the Chucky movies from all streaming services, while we are at it. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by uticaclub

[Tenhigh]

Just now, Bangarang said:

Well Big Ben raped women and Tyreke Hill beat his pregnant girlfriend and broke his son’s arm. Riley Cooper was still playing after his racist remarks.

 

Maybe if the league was actually consistent with its discipline and attitude towards certain behavior then I wouldn’t care about Gruden getting singled out. This is a joke and people are pandering.

 

My guess is that if everyone's secrets were exposed, we'd have no one left to do ANYTHING.  

[hondo in seattle]

1 hour ago, Bangarang said:

Well Big Ben raped women and Tyreke Hill beat his pregnant girlfriend and broke his son’s arm. Riley Cooper was still playing after his racist remarks.

 

Maybe if the league was actually consistent with its discipline and attitude towards certain behavior then I wouldn’t care about Gruden getting singled out. This is a joke and people are pandering.

 

 

So what do you want?    Big Ben may have been a rapist but he was never even criminally charged, let alone convicted.  Do you want the NFL to punish every player who gets accused of something?

 

And the NFL did not discipline Gruden.  He resigned.  Maybe he was forced to resign by Mark Davis.  I don't know.  But his departure was inevitable.  Gruden couldn't effectively lead his players with all this stuff coming out.  

Personally, I've lost all respect for Chuckie.  He got what he deserved.  I wish Big Ben and all the other a-holes in the NFL get what they deserve, too.  But, sometimes, it just doesn't work out that way.  

Edited October 13, 2021 by hondo in seattle

[Bob in STL]

1 hour ago, TH3 said:

You are so wrong on so much. OJ was found liable in Civil court....Ron Goldman was not having an affair with Simpson....and the Simpsons  were divorced...so there is that 

The civil trial was a different trial all together.  You can believe whatever you want about Goldman, obviously he didn’t deserve to be killed whatever his relationship was.  
 

The new stadium will be an opportunity to clean up the WoF. 

Edited October 13, 2021 by Bob in STL

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

My guess is that if everyone's secrets were exposed, we'd have no one left to do ANYTHING.  

Well that’s a terrible response to hitting pregnant woman and raping somebody in the bathroom of a bar…

 

Jesus Christ. I’m actually floored. 

[billsfan1959]

34 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

I'm not so sure about that.

 

OJ was my only hero growing up so I followed the trial obsessively.  There were problems with what looked to be planted/tampered evidence and the forensics in general.  The LA police - and Mark Fuhrman in particular - had credibility issues.  Barry Scheck did a masterful job seeding doubt about the forensic evidence and Johnny Cochran brought race up at the right times and delivered the memorable line about the glove: "If it doesn't fit, you must acquit."  

 

All in all, I felt OJ was guilty but wasn't sure I could vote to convict.  The defense - especially, in my mind, Scheck - planted seeds of doubt.  

 

I've never read the book, OJ is Innocent and I Can Prove It, but many who have became convinced that Jason Simpson (OJ's troubled son) was the actual killer.  

 

No murder weapon, no witnesses, faulty forensics...  the prosecution didn't have the strongest of cases.

 

 

 

OJ was my hero growing up as well and I truly didn't want to believe that he was capable of, or guilty of, such an awful crime. However, the evidence was solid. The verdict was a product of (1) a defense strategy that put the LAPD on trial as a racist organization that would do anything (including planting evidence and other immoral or criminal acts) to convict a black man - during a period of time where there were extreme racial tensions in LA; (2) a prosecution team that was preoccupied with everything but actually presenting their case in an effective manner; and (3) a judge that allowed the trial to be turned into a complete circus, in regard to both the media and what he allowed within the actual trial.

 

IMHO, anyone with any experience in criminal investigations, criminal trials, and criminal law understands the verdict for what it was: Jury nullification.

 

[dollars 2 donuts]

The stuff we talk about sometimes is red herring bull****.

 

OJ, the WoF, Gruden.  All of this should either be paused or just plain flushed down the toilet.

 

 

 

While we piss on each other back and forth on this stuff the NFL, the WFT and Dan Snyder are going to creep out the backdoor, strolling and whistling their way home.

 

I love football, but this is sprinkled with so much horse**** it shouldn't be a "s*** sandwich, with horse*** sprinkles."

 

It is just plain a horse**** sandwich and I don't think they should be allowed to just walk away on this hypocrisy.

 

Don't be a dunce and just quote other instances.  I don't approve of those, either. 

 

However, it is horrible what that man and that organization, and to a further extent what this league has done and you mean to tell me that the fall guy in all this is John Gruden?!  Really?!  So that is the meat on this bone, rah-rah, see you later?!

 

Hardly!

 

 

EDIT:  NFL fans want to start a chant in the stands of every game this weekend?  THIS is what it should be about.  Every stadium.  

Edited October 13, 2021 by dollars 2 donuts

[aristocrat]

The bucs are going for a super bowl run and don’t want the distraction. They don’t want the players to be asked about gruden and all that so they just ended the story there.  It was the absolute smartest thing to do. 
 

Gruden needed and needs a better apology. Own it, apologize, go on some kind of learning tour and maybe he can redeem himself.