Slot Recievers - McKenzie / Cole

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I do think he has backed himself into a corner somewhat. Will be interesting to see what happens. 

Wasn't there an article few days ago that said MCD spoke to him about it and it "would be fine" or something? I honestly just kinda skimmed through it. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Wasn't there an article few days ago that said MCD spoke to him about it and it "would be fine" or something? I honestly just kinda skimmed through it. 

 

I hope he plays. The Bills will be better for him being out there.

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I hope he plays. The Bills will be better for him being out there.

Yeah would really catch me off guard if he doesn't. But yeah for sure Bills need him on the field. If he isn't it will be a very noticeable difference...

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

This may be a really bad take-- but I think the surprise WR cut (if there is one) will be E. Sanders. 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

This may be a really bad take-- but I think the surprise WR cut (if there is one) will be E. Sanders. 

No way. Very hard for me to see that. Why do you think that?

[Boxcar]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have never thought McKenzie was on the bubble. 

You don't think a guy making around the vet minimum is on the bubble when guys like Breida, Hodgins, Stevenson etc. are around? He'll probably make the team but he certainly isn't a lock.

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, Boxcar said:

You don't think a guy making around the vet minimum is on the bubble when guys like Breida, Hodgins, Stevenson etc. are around? He'll probably make the team but he certainly isn't a lock.

I disagree. I would consider him to be a lock. Unless major injury of course.

[Boxcar]

4 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:

The Bills are not cutting Cole friggin Beasley.

The media saying it is one thing, they love nothing more than mounting that high horse and shouting at all the little people, but Bills fans? Were they even watching the games last year?

[Shaw66]

3 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

 

McKenzie in a way is like our current #2 CB, always in competition for his job, and always winning the position, I would not count him out, as it were.

 

 Go Bills!!!

That's a good way to look at him.  Every season, people are counting him out, and every season he's there in September. 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

The media saying it is one thing, they love nothing more than mounting that high horse and shouting at all the little people, but Bills fans? Were they even watching the games last year?

It's just one of those things where they try to make something out of nothing. They are just trying to make a story about it just for the sole purpose of what Beasley said.

Just now, Shaw66 said:

That's a good way to look at him.  Every season, people are counting him out, and every season he's there in September. 

Yup, I stated upthread about the last 2 or 3 seasons there wasn'tmuch to him. He made it back each season. Now with the season he just had and add in that Daboll seems to have figured a way to use him better and get him the ball, No way he isn't on the 53. 

[Shaw66]

26 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Wasn't there an article few days ago that said MCD spoke to him about it and it "would be fine" or something? I honestly just kinda skimmed through it. 

I'm not the most up to date, but I don't recall seeing anything about Cole.  My eyes glaze over with the press trying to make news of the COVID stuff.   I found it hard to understand what Beasley was saying with his tweets that caused the uproar in the first place.  Still, I expect he'll be on the roster and playing in September, either vaccinated or living with whatever COVID restrictions there are.  

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Boxcar said:

You don't think a guy making around the vet minimum is on the bubble when guys like Breida, Hodgins, Stevenson etc. are around? He'll probably make the team but he certainly isn't a lock.

 

I think a guy who has proven he can do a number of things the Bills value who they have brought back two offseasons running is going to make the roster. Lock? No. But he is in the middle category of guys who very much have a job to lose. Bubble guys are guys who need to win a job. The three guys you mention are all bubble guys IMO. For McKenzie not to be the Bills 5th or 6th receiver both Stevenson and Hodgins will have to overtake him. I think that is a long shot. 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

I'm not the most up to date, but I don't recall seeing anything about Cole.  My eyes glaze over with the press trying to make news of the COVID stuff.   I found it hard to understand what Beasley was saying with his tweets that caused the uproar in the first place.  Still, I expect he'll be on the roster and playing in September, either vaccinated or living with whatever COVID restrictions there are.  

I recall seeing that article on yahoo. I just assumed someone posted it here. Although I haven't seen it here, yet anyway. I guess I should have posted it when I saw it.

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

No way he isn't on the 53. 

As I said above, I wouldn't be so sure.  It's all about competition.  He fought his way onto the roster a few years ago, and he could lose his spot the same way.   

 

If Beasley plays, with Sanders, Davis, and Diggs, there are only two or three wideout spots left.   If Stevenson wins the punt return job and can run jet sweeps, McKenzie could be in trouble - not because he isn't good enough, but because someone else looks better.  

[Patrick Duffy]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think a guy who has proven he can do a number of things the Bills value who they have brought back two offseasons running is going to make the roster. Lock? No. But he is in the middle category of guys who very much have a job to lose. Bubble guys are guys who need to win a job. The three guys you mention are all bubble guys IMO. For McKenzie not to be the Bills 5th or 6th receiver both Stevenson and Hodgins will have to overtake him. I think that is a long shot. 

See I do think he's a lock. Everything you and I have already mentioned but also add in that he may very well be called upon for ST depending on the situation. I think he could be PR/KR if a man goes down.

[Don Otreply]

10 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's a good way to look at him.  Every season, people are counting him out, and every season he's there in September. 

Yup, I counted him out two seasons ago, shows what I know… 😁

[Patrick Duffy]

4 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Yup, I counted him out two seasons ago, shows what I know… 😁

Lol, well I did too to be honest. But that was before we found out how awful K.B, Z. Jones and co. really were. Looking back now, I would take  McKenzie over each and every WR on the roster that year, although he was there, he didn't see many opportunities.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Patrick_Duffy

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

For McKenzie not to be the Bills 5th or 6th receiver both Stevenson and Hodgins will have to overtake him. I think that is a long shot. 

That's where I disagree.  Hodgins already showed promise, and it's easy to see him as a better downfield receiver than McKenzie.  All that has to happen is Stevenson has to win the punt return job.  If he does, he certainly can run the jet sweep. 

 

What McKenzie has going for him is experience.   He knows how to make all the necessary reads, he knows the audibles, he knows the blocking assignments - all better than I'd expect Stevenson can this season.  Still, I wouldn't call it a longshot.   Veterans get cut every year.  

 

 

[Patrick Duffy]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

Hodgins already showed promise,

Where? In camp and practice he has shown promise. Unfortunately that's not enough. He hopefully gets a chance and does well

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

24 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

No way. Very hard for me to see that. Why do you think that?

age. Sanders is like 35, and if the younger guys really shine— like Hodgins, Gentry, McKenzie, and Stevenson— it’s going to be tough to keep an aging vet over these younger guys. 
 

my gut feel too is that Sanders is like right on the edge of jumping the shark. Will be curious what he looks like on camp. 

[Patrick Duffy]

3 minutes ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

age. Sanders is like 35, and if the younger guys really shine— like Hodgins, Gentry, McKenzie, and Stevenson— it’s going to be tough to keep an aging vet over these younger guys. 
 

my gut feel too is that Sanders is like right on the edge of jumping the shark. Will be curious what he looks like on camp. 

I don't know man.....Sanders looked pretty good last season with Saints. I think he will do just fine. I do agree though he is getting up in age, also I think this season may be his last. I don't see any more than 2 more years anyway.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

That's where I disagree.  Hodgins already showed promise, and it's easy to see him as a better downfield receiver than McKenzie.  All that has to happen is Stevenson has to win the punt return job.  If he does, he certainly can run the jet sweep. 

 

What McKenzie has going for him is experience.   He knows how to make all the necessary reads, he knows the audibles, he knows the blocking assignments - all better than I'd expect Stevenson can this season.  Still, I wouldn't call it a longshot.   Veterans get cut every year.  

 

 

Let me see Hodgins separate when defenders can contact him in camp. And then Stevenson has to win a job McKenzie - by Beane's own statement - will have first shot at. 

 

For both of those to happen is, most definitely, a longshot. Impossible? No. Likely? No.

 

EDIT: and ties will go against the Bills retaining two receivers who have never taken an NFL snap before. That does not feel like their MO at all. They know 100% what they get with McKenzie. They get a capable NFL receiver. 

Edited July 12, 2021 by GunnerBill

[ngbills]

Would not be completely shocked to see them cut Beasley. A bit more shocking than the McCoy move a few years ago but similar. Bills would save $5M this years and $6/7M next year. If they think McK/Sanders/M Stevenson can > Beasley they will do it. I would prefer to keep him for this year unless cutting him means adding some pieces. But not just to save $ and give other guys a shot. Save that for next year. 

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

I don't know man.....Sanders looked pretty good last season with Saints. I think he will do just fine. I do agree though he is getting up in age, also I think this season may be his last. I don't see any more than 2 more years anyway.

 

I think he looked clearly slowed last year with the Saints. He can still play but he is closer to JAG than difference maker at this stage. Not saying he is a JAG... but he is closer to that end of the spectrum. I don't like the signing despite the fact that I am on record as having been a fan of the player throughout his career. 

[Shaw66]

10 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Where? In camp and practice he has shown promise. Unfortunately that's not enough. He hopefully gets a chance and does well

Of course, but consider the competition.  McKenzie's been in the league for four seasons.  His best season, he caught 30 passes.  He wasn't good enough to win starting time from Beasley with a fractured leg.  Davis needed about half of a training camp to move ahead of McKenzie on the depth chart.  

 

McKenzie simply isn't much of a receiving threat.   Hodgins doesn't have to show a lot be better.  

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he looked clearly slowed last year with the Saints. He can still play but he is closer to JAG than difference maker at this stage. Not saying he is a JAG... but he is closer to that end of the spectrum. I don't like the signing despite the fact that I am on record as having been a fan of the player throughout his career. 

He's clearly a gamble.   At some point he's just not going to be able to do it any longer, and that point could be any day now.  But he's savvy and tough, and even with some diminishing physical skills, he may be able to do more for Allen than Brown did.  He is one smart receiver.  

[Dr.Sack]

Beasley would have to really age to be cut at age 32, regardless of his vaccine stance. It’s more likely Beasley retires than is cut. I think it’s 30/70 retire/play. Sanders is a one year rental at age 34. Do I think the drop off between Beasley and Sanders is huge? No. McKenize even can serve a role, and is capable of doing WR end arounds that Beasley can’t due to the speed factor. I think the Bills should roll with Beasley and give him every opportunity in 2021 despite his potential for being a disruption. We will find out very soon how serious he is about playing. 

[Don Otreply]

16 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Lol, well I did too to be honest. But that was before we found out how awful K.B, Z. Jones and co. really were. Looking back now, I would take  McKenzie over each and every WR on the roster that year, although he was there, he didn't see many opportunities.

No one on this green earth realized how awful KB and Zay Jones would turn out to be, I had up till then not seen receivers who was afraid to catch a pass, hell, if we had it started McKenzie and Duke Williams we would have won two more games that season…, 😁

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Wasn't there an article few days ago that said MCD spoke to him about it and it "would be fine" or something? I honestly just kinda skimmed through it. 

Here it is.

 

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/mcdermott-spoke-with-beasley-following-twitter-rant-confident-players-will-make-good-decisions/

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Agree 100 Boxcar.  I read the article yesterday and was dumfounded.  Beasley has had two great years for us.  The guy is almost uncoverable in the slot.  He is not going anywhere.  Skurski comes off as an amateur marginal reporter.  I long for the days of Allen Wilson (RIP) Bucky, Sully and Gaughn (when he was the lead reporter).

 

if you long for Bucky and Sully you need to raise standards.

[Paup 1995MVP]

11 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

if you long for Bucky and Sully you need to raise standards.

I thought they wrote well and brought great perspective covering Buffalo sports teams for many years.  Everyone can't be Mitch Albom, Dick Schaap or Dr Z.  

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

52 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Here it is.

 

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/mcdermott-spoke-with-beasley-following-twitter-rant-confident-players-will-make-good-decisions/

Sounds like McD is hopeful but no firm commitment that Beasley will abide by the non vaccinated NFL protocols.

 

"I just hope we continue to move forward in that direction just for the greater good of society and the greater good of our team,” McDermott said. “But again, have to respect everyone’s position either to get vaccinated or not to get vaccinated.”

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think he looked clearly slowed last year with the Saints. He can still play but he is closer to JAG than difference maker at this stage. Not saying he is a JAG... but he is closer to that end of the spectrum. I don't like the signing despite the fact that I am on record as having been a fan of the player throughout his career. 

Yeah he's for sure no spring chicken anymore and all that, but he played well with Brees last season. In any event I think the 1 year he will be here that he fills J. Browns spot just fine. I don't think there will be much of a difference in production between Brown last season and what he brings ( staying healthy) this season

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

Here it is.

 

https://www.rochesterfirst.com/news/mcdermott-spoke-with-beasley-following-twitter-rant-confident-players-will-make-good-decisions/

Thanks. Knew I came across it couple days ago. Didn't see it posted anywhere here so not sure how many have read it...

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Of course, but consider the competition.  McKenzie's been in the league for four seasons.  His best season, he caught 30 passes.  He wasn't good enough to win starting time from Beasley with a fractured leg.  Davis needed about half of a training camp to move ahead of McKenzie on the depth chart.  

 

McKenzie simply isn't much of a receiving threat.   Hodgins doesn't have to show a lot be better. 

I hear ya, and I get the reasoning. Also good point about the competition in practice Hodgins faces. I just think real game is more important. Sometimes in practice the guys don't go full on and will lay off. Not all the time of course, but sometimes you see it. I also believe the word of the other players that said he was impressive and all.

 

When he gets his 1st opportunity I definitely hope he takes full advantage. He was out all year last season. So I'm sure he is very eager to get that chance. In regard to McKenzie though, don't really know much detail about your statement ,"wasn't good enough to win time with Beasley's injured leg". I mean how do we know it was even a competition for that spot since Beasley wasn't going to miss much time at all? Davis was in slot at times, even D.Singletary here and there I believe.

 

You say McKenzie isn't much of a receiving threat but he certainly made a lot of plays receiving last season. Quick too and just seems like Daboll is using him the right way and getting more out of him than in the past.

 

Hope Hodgins does take over a spot soon, but I still think McKenzie is a lock to make the 53. 

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

No one on this green earth realized how awful KB and Zay Jones would turn out to be, I had up till then not seen receivers who was afraid to catch a pass, hell, if we had it started McKenzie and Duke Williams we would have won two more games that season…, 😁

Yup it was the absolute worst group of WR's I honestly think I have ever seen in an NFL uniform. Was painful watching that.

[Augie]

9 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

I assume it would depend on the severity of each injury. 

 

The retired friend/pediatric neuro-radiologist who helped when my kids broke an ankle (hoops) and arm (ulna from soccer collision with keeper) explained it as a range of 1-10 type thing bone bruises and stress fractures meet somewhere closer to the middle while compound fractures are a solid 10. 

 

I had a minor fracture in my lower leg as a junior in football. Hurt quite a bit, but I could function in spurts. I wasn’t missed much.  😪

 

For the record, as @Royale with Cheese mentioned, a bone bruise can hurt like the dickens! 

 

Also for the record, I hope we can keep our best players for what they can do on the field, and I’ll pay little attention to what some writer has to say about it. 

 

 

.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Augie

[Patrick Duffy]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

The retired friend/pediatric neuro-radiologist who helped when my kids broke an ankle (hoops) and arm (ulna from soccer collision with keeper) explained it as a range of 1-10 type thing bone bruises and stress fractures meet somewhere closer to the middle while compound fractures are a solid 10. 

 

I had a minor fracture in my lower leg as a junior in football. Hurt quite a bit, but I could function in spurts. I wasn’t missed much.  😪

 

For the record, as @Royale with Cheese mentioned, a bone bruise can hurt like the dickens! 

 

For the record, I hope we can keep our best players for what they can do on the field, and I’ll pay little attention to what some writer has to say about it. 

 

 

.

Yeah agreed. Had a small fracture on my already bum hip in 2017 falling off ramp of a Uhaul. Hip always is in pain (reason I'm disabled) and next day wife made me go to E.R. Got x-ray and Dr said was small fracture. Also said he was a little surprised I was still able to do much of anything at all after looking at x-ray because hip is in such bad shape, now adding that small fracture on top....

 

Anyways, my point is I honestly couldn't tell much difference if any pain wise than what I deal with everyday.

[JoPoy88]

7 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

Mckenzie is slot depth and primary returner (you have hyde as punt catcher - and depth KR would probably be Breida), hodgins is likely outside depth.  Stevenson maybe on PS with kumerow/duke/gentry as probably the other one on the PS.  

yes and McKenzie is also the primary guy they call on for those gadget sweeps around the LOS. He’s no longer a “bubble player” in my opinion.

[Royale with Cheese]

49 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

The retired friend/pediatric neuro-radiologist who helped when my kids broke an ankle (hoops) and arm (ulna from soccer collision with keeper) explained it as a range of 1-10 type thing bone bruises and stress fractures meet somewhere closer to the middle while compound fractures are a solid 10. 

 

I had a minor fracture in my lower leg as a junior in football. Hurt quite a bit, but I could function in spurts. I wasn’t missed much.  😪

 

For the record, as @Royale with Cheese mentioned, a bone bruise can hurt like the dickens! 

 

Also for the record, I hope we can keep our best players for what they can do on the field, and I’ll pay little attention to what some writer has to say about it. 

 

 

.

Yes it does.  Got hit by a liner when I was pitching in HS.  Every step I take, every move I make hurt like Hades.

[Doc Brown]

So we’ve gone from fans freaking out when McDermott said “week to week” when describing Beasley’s late season injury last year.  
 

Now to some it’s no big deal if he’s cut because he’s a year older and we replaced Brown with Sanders?  Sorry.  Beasley has been too instrumental to our offense and Josh’s development to let him walk.  
 

Whatever headaches he’s caused with his stupid vaccine comments are minor to deal with as he’s coming off what should’ve been a 1000 yard season.  If he’s not on the team next year it better be because he retired or I’m writing a strongly worded letter to Beane.

Edited July 13, 2021 by Doc Brown

[billybrew1]

13 hours ago, CorkScrewHill said:

Jay Skurski indicate Cole could be a potential cut given our depth of slot receivers and his vaccine stance / his injury issues. To me, the guy is a warrior who played through a broken leg, so being injured but still suiting up and playing well is the whole best ability is availability thing.

https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/cole-beasley-could-be-surprise-cut/

 

USAToday ranked the top slot recievers and A Buffalo Bill placed 7th, but it was Mckenzie not Cole that go the nod from Doug Farrar. I actually found it odd that jarvis Landry was not on this list more than Cole not being on the list, but ...

 

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/lists/nfl-best-slot-receivers-tyreek-hill-keenan-allen-juju-smith-schuster/

 

I Like Isaiah a lot, but when it is crunch time, Josh looks for one of three people to make a play, Stefon, Cole, and himself with his legs).

 

I do not see us letting either Cole or Isaiah go this year. Next year, well maybe next year.

 

I don't either. He really is one of the best slot WRs in the league.

However, Sanders is going to be added to your list very fast. Davis maybe too. I think Singletary becomes more consistent as well. He should be watching Thurman Thomas play and copying a lot of what he did. Daboll should set Singletary up better this year as well....

[BigAl2526]

I don't know that the Bills would decide to cut Beasley over the COVID vaccine remarks, but if Beasley makes good on his threats to flaunt behavior that violates league COVID protocol, the Bills may not have any choice but to plan for life without Beasley.  I agree with Gunner that  the offense's base will feature Sanders in the slot, but it's nice to know the Bills have options, and I think they will use them in order to confuse defenses.  I could imagine Brian Daboll designing players for Isaiah Hodgins in the slot, assuming he makes the 53 man roster.  The challenge of covering him would be very different from the challenge of covering Sanders or McKenzie.  McKenzie I'm sure, will be in the slot for a lot of plays as well through the season.