Bills restructure Diggs contract; create 7.8. Mill in cap space

[rayray808]

so it wasn't for Julio...

 

what's the next player/trade to take over my twitter feed?

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Waiting stinks, seems like Eagles are playing hardball

[Punching Bag]

59 minutes ago, rayray808 said:

so it wasn't for Julio...

 

what's the next player/trade to take over my twitter feed?

 

Well Bears fans would be real unhappy if Packers traded for Mitchell Trubisky to handle QB duties until Love was ready.

Start that rumor.

[BarleyNY]

14 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Waiting stinks, seems like Eagles are playing hardball

Their leverage is that they can wait until cut down day to release Ertz for cap purposes.  The only problem with that is that don’t want him in the building where they’d be on the hook for his salary if he got injured.  So the likely endpoint for this is just prior to the start of training camps on July 27th.  

[Einstein's Dog]

15 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Waiting stinks, seems like Eagles are playing hardball

Or the delay could be with Ertz/his agent and the Bills.  They may have negotiated a 4th or 5th for Ertz already dependent upon Ertz signing a contract with the Bills.

 

Determining a fair contract is a nightmare.  And if the Bills are trying to get more than one year, the terms are even more complicated.  Fair Market Value for Ertz is tough to figure, such a huge possible range.

[Boxcar]

On 6/7/2021 at 10:47 AM, Einstein's Dog said:

Or the delay could be with Ertz/his agent and the Bills.  They may have negotiated a 4th or 5th for Ertz already dependent upon Ertz signing a contract with the Bills.

 

Determining a fair contract is a nightmare.  And if the Bills are trying to get more than one year, the terms are even more complicated.  Fair Market Value for Ertz is tough to figure, such a huge possible range.

What if this isn't even Ertz?

This waiting is driving me crazy

[4merper4mer]

On 6/7/2021 at 10:47 AM, Einstein's Dog said:

Or the delay could be with Ertz/his agent and the Bills.  They may have negotiated a 4th or 5th for Ertz already dependent upon Ertz signing a contract with the Bills.

 

Determining a fair contract is a nightmare.  And if the Bills are trying to get more than one year, the terms are even more complicated.  Fair Market Value for Ertz is tough to figure, such a huge possible range.

Another possibility is that the Bills have zero interest in Ertz because he blows.

[FireChans]

Just now, 4merper4mer said:

Another possibility is that the Bills have zero interest in Ertz because he blows.

Kim Jung TE

[Einstein's Dog]

46 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Another possibility is that the Bills have zero interest in Ertz because he blows.

Zero interest is pretty much out.  But like JJ before him, the Bills FO probably has a set price range and draft capital and won't move much from it.

 

And don't be fooled whatever amount the Bills are thinking, it is the most the Bills have ever paid for a TE.

[4merper4mer]

31 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Zero interest is pretty much out.  But like JJ before him, the Bills FO probably has a set price range and draft capital and won't move much from it.

 

And don't be fooled whatever amount the Bills are thinking, it is the most the Bills have ever paid for a TE.

Why is zero interest out?  Because a bunch of reporters and fans are speculating?  One thing I’ve noticed about Beane is that he doesn’t typically target whiny crybabies who have not only been unproductive lately but have also been injury prone and detrimental to team chemistry.  But hey, there are exceptions to every rule so maybe.

[Einstein's Dog]

10 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Why is zero interest out?  Because a bunch of reporters and fans are speculating?  One thing I’ve noticed about Beane is that he doesn’t typically target whiny crybabies who have not only been unproductive lately but have also been injury prone and detrimental to team chemistry.  But hey, there are exceptions to every rule so maybe.

Pretty far fetched to think the Bills haven't been checking Ertz out.  Not only multiple reports/leaks but Beane said we didn't have the elite type TE that required game planning.  Vegas odds put the Bills as the most likely landing spot.

 

Beane does his own due diligence and determines if there is a fit, this wouldn't be an exception - see S Diggs.

[4merper4mer]

4 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Pretty far fetched to think the Bills haven't been checking Ertz out.  Not only multiple reports/leaks but Beane said we didn't have the elite type TE that required game planning.  Vegas odds put the Bills as the most likely landing spot.

 

Beane does his own due diligence and determines if there is a fit, this wouldn't be an exception - see S Diggs.

Vegas odds.  Lol.

 

It is understandable Beane would want an elite tight end.  If he wanted an elite car do you think he’d be hanging out at the Kia dealership?  Do you think he’d buy a used Kia that had a flat tire and bad brakes?  At least cars can’t have crap attitudes like Ertz.  At this point in his career he requires the same amount of game planning as the kid who runs onto to the field to pick up the tee after a kickoff.

 

Shirley you can’t be serious comparing Ertz to Diggs.  That’s a joke right?

[Rockinon]

8 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Vegas odds.  Lol.

 

It is understandable Beane would want an elite tight end.  If he wanted an elite car do you think he’d be hanging out at the Kia dealership?  Do you think he’d buy a used Kia that had a flat tire and bad brakes?  At least cars can’t have crap attitudes like Ertz.  At this point in his career he requires the same amount of game planning as the kid who runs onto to the field to pick up the tee after a kickoff.

 

Shirley you can’t be serious comparing Ertz to Diggs.  That’s a joke right?

Cars can have crap attitudes. I can attest to that. BTW, ever read the book Christine or watched the movie?

[Einstein's Dog]

12 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Vegas odds.  Lol.

 

It is understandable Beane would want an elite tight end.  If he wanted an elite car do you think he’d be hanging out at the Kia dealership?  Do you think he’d buy a used Kia that had a flat tire and bad brakes?  At least cars can’t have crap attitudes like Ertz.  At this point in his career he requires the same amount of game planning as the kid who runs onto to the field to pick up the tee after a kickoff.

 

Shirley you can’t be serious comparing Ertz to Diggs.  That’s a joke right?

For someone who disregards all evidence of the Bills interest in Ertz, it's ironic that you're so quick to buy into the theory that Ertz has a bad attitude.  What sources do you have for that?

 

Much like with JJ, this is not interest related, but price related.  Sounds like you wouldn't be on board for Beane to go north of $13M for Ertz.  Normally I'd ask what you would be willing to pay, but you don't seem rational on the subject.

 

And don't kid yourself, getting an upper tier TE, Ertz, is the biggest upgrade the Bills could do for the Offense (over RB, over JJones, biggest).

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Zero interest is pretty much out.  But like JJ before him, the Bills FO probably has a set price range and draft capital and won't move much from it.

 

And don't be fooled whatever amount the Bills are thinking, it is the most the Bills have ever paid for a TE.

 

What did the Bills pay for Clay?

[716er]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What did the Bills pay for Clay?

 

Average salary was around 7.5 mil from what I remember

 

FWIW I think the best move is to save the space and wait until training camp to use it.

 

We will have an injury eventually.

Edited June 9, 2021 by 716er

[H2o]

Still waiting to see what this cap space was cleared out for. But the longer it sits unused, the more it seems like it is for someone who is currently on another roster at the moment. 

[Einstein's Dog]

5 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

What did the Bills pay for Clay?

Looks like Clay got 5yrs for $38.5M. 

 

So I stand by my comment, got to pay Ertz over $8 - K Pitts is getting $8.5M and J Smith got over $12M.

[H2o]

1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said:

Looks like Clay got 5yrs for $38.5M. 

 

So I stand by my comment, got to pay Ertz over $8 - K Pitts is getting $8.5M and J Smith got over $12M.

The Pats overpaid for two TE's. I hope Beane doesn't even take their stupidity into account if/when we make a move for Ertz and sticks to his guns about what he's willing to pay. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, 716er said:

 

Average salary was around 7.5 mil from what I remember

$10M signing, $10M roster bonus the following year, total $24.5M guaranteed.  Only $5M cap hit the first year, but $13.5M the second year.$38M overall

 

 

So I guess it depends upon how you look at the question “most the Bills have ever paid for a TE”

[Frat-Train]

I’m old enough to remember when Ertz to Buffalo was a “done deal”.

[Einstein's Dog]

43 minutes ago, H2o said:

The Pats overpaid for two TE's. I hope Beane doesn't even take their stupidity into account if/when we make a move for Ertz and sticks to his guns about what he's willing to pay. 

The Pats are only one piece of setting the market though.  It's expensive.  The rookie K Pitts is getting $8.5M, Hooper $10M, J Smith  $12.5.  Seems like the $8.5 contract for Ertz is a deal and could be used as foundation for a 2 yr deal.

 

I hope Beane is being flexible on this. 

If you want Josh to take the next step - being able to take what the defense gives you - equip him with a smart, experienced, reliable, underneath target.

[BarleyNY]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

$10M signing, $10M roster bonus the following year, total $24.5M guaranteed.  Only $5M cap hit the first year, but $13.5M the second year.$38M overall

 

 

So I guess it depends upon how you look at the question “most the Bills have ever paid for a TE”

Yeah, good catch.  The egregiously bad Clay contract would be bigger any way you look at it. 

[4merper4mer]

3 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

For someone who disregards all evidence of the Bills interest in Ertz, it's ironic that you're so quick to buy into the theory that Ertz has a bad attitude.  What sources do you have for that?

 

Much like with JJ, this is not interest related, but price related.  Sounds like you wouldn't be on board for Beane to go north of $13M for Ertz.  Normally I'd ask what you would be willing to pay, but you don't seem rational on the subject.

 

And don't kid yourself, getting an upper tier TE, Ertz, is the biggest upgrade the Bills could do for the Offense (over RB, over JJones, biggest).

 

 

1. The “evidence” of the Bills interest is similar to the evidence of Ferris Bueller’s impending demise.  Your girlfriend’s cousin’s uncle’s friend heard from a guy.  Maybe this time it is true.

 

2. I witnessed Ertz pouty puss face and lack of effort with my eyes last year on several occasions.  Did you miss it?  He also missed a number of games injured.  

 

3.  It’s not my decision and I’m a Bills fan so whoever Beane signs...I’ll root for that guy.  If it were my decision I wouldn’t be “on board” with signing Ertz for $1.  That is not irrational, it is an opinion of Ertz’ impact on the team.  A sign of a weak argument is calling someone with whom you disagree irrational.  I don’t think you’re irrational.  I just think you’re wrong.  
 

I do agree getting an upper tier TE could help the Bills.  Getting an an always overrated, declining, whiny baby at any position will not help the Bills despite any name recognition or shiny object compulsions it might satisfy.  

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

I only want Ertz for 2 years max.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BarleyNY said:

Yeah, good catch.  The egregiously bad Clay contract would be bigger any way you look at it. 

 

I'd like your response, but "tears" would be more appropriate 😥😬

 

40 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

1. The “evidence” of the Bills interest is similar to the evidence of Ferris Bueller’s impending demise.  Your girlfriend’s cousin’s uncle’s friend heard from a guy.  Maybe this time it is true.

 

2. I witnessed Ertz pouty puss face and lack of effort with my eyes last year on several occasions.  Did you miss it?  He also missed a number of games injured.  

 

3.  It’s not my decision and I’m a Bills fan so whoever Beane signs...I’ll root for that guy.  If it were my decision I wouldn’t be “on board” with signing Ertz for $1.  That is not irrational, it is an opinion of Ertz’ impact on the team.  A sign of a weak argument is calling someone with whom you disagree irrational.  I don’t think you’re irrational.  I just think you’re wrong.  
 

I do agree getting an upper tier TE could help the Bills.  Getting an an always overrated, declining, whiny baby at any position will not help the Bills despite any name recognition or shiny object compulsions it might satisfy.  

 

So basically your evidence of Ertz bad attitude is that you thought he showed a lack of effort and had a pouty face (witnessed at a distance through his helmet and face mask, one assumes)?

 

Or that he was injured?  Being injured is a bad attitude?

 

I'm not on the Woot! Woot! Ertz! bandwagon because I'm concerned about injury history and possibly declining skills, but that seems a bit scant evidence of a "bad attitude".  If the Bills trade for him, I'll assume they did their due diligence on the injury and skills.

[Simon Says]

On 6/1/2021 at 8:17 AM, JGMcD2 said:

Ertz, Nelson AND Short… 

 

They don't have THAT much cap space

[Einstein's Dog]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

1. The “evidence” of the Bills interest is similar to the evidence of Ferris Bueller’s impending demise.  Your girlfriend’s cousin’s uncle’s friend heard from a guy.  Maybe this time it is true.

 

2. I witnessed Ertz pouty puss face and lack of effort with my eyes last year on several occasions.  Did you miss it?  He also missed a number of games injured.  

 

3.  It’s not my decision and I’m a Bills fan so whoever Beane signs...I’ll root for that guy.  If it were my decision I wouldn’t be “on board” with signing Ertz for $1.  That is not irrational, it is an opinion of Ertz’ impact on the team.  A sign of a weak argument is calling someone with whom you disagree irrational.  I don’t think you’re irrational.  I just think you’re wrong.  
 

I do agree getting an upper tier TE could help the Bills.  Getting an an always overrated, declining, whiny baby at any position will not help the Bills despite any name recognition or shiny object compulsions it might satisfy.  

I did not see Ertz's pouty face.  He seemed like a guy having a rough season playing through hard times, injuries, and a dysfunctional, changing team.

 

Saying you wouldn't sign Ertz for $1 is, let me think of another word instead of irrational, how about unusual.  That's pretty much why I didn't ask in the first place.

 

And yes, part of the allure of Ertz is the shiny object component of incredible past performance in an area of need to the Bills.

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

I did not see Ertz's pouty face.  He seemed like a guy having a rough season playing through hard times, injuries, and a dysfunctional, changing team.

 

Saying you wouldn't sign Ertz for $1 is, let me think of another word instead of irrational, how about unusual.  That's pretty much why I didn't ask in the first place.

 

And yes, part of the allure of Ertz is the shiny object component of incredible past performance in an area of need to the Bills.

You weren’t watching Eagles games if you didn’t see the pouty face and attitude.  And don’t excuse Ertz as part of the reason the Eagles were dysfunctional....

obviously it wasn’t all on him but he did not help.

 

I think that Ertz will fail to produce for whatever team he ends up with.  He’s toast.  Your use of the word “incredible” is a little loose.  Above average in the past is about right with an emphasis on in the past.  Antonio Gates had incredible past performance.  Should the Bills sign him?  
 

Are there any players out there who you think simply would not help the Bills in any way?  If so, can you name the players who you’d sign anyway if they were only $1?  

[4merper4mer]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

So basically your evidence of Ertz bad attitude is that you thought he showed a lack of effort and had a pouty face (witnessed at a distance through his helmet and face mask, one assumes)?

 

Or that he was injured?  Being injured is a bad attitude?

 

I'm not on the Woot! Woot! Ertz! bandwagon because I'm concerned about injury history and possibly declining skills, but that seems a bit scant evidence of a "bad attitude".  If the Bills trade for him, I'll assume they did their due diligence on the injury and skills.

My evidence was an utter lack of hustle on a multitude of plays during games I watched.  He looked like Jay Cutler running a route.  Guys with good attitudes don’t do stuff like that.  You might also be aware that players don’t always wear their helmets while on the sidelines.  In those cases, their faces are indeed visible.

 

IMO he is no longer a good player and IMO he would be a detriment to team chemistry, although I’m confident enough it what the Bills have built to not worry that he would ruin anything......he’d just suck.  

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

I think pouty face has been brought up enough at this point to where we need to see some video evidence. IMO of course.

 

Bold claims being made. We know he has a face, and that’s half of it. But is it pouty? 

[JDubya76]

Depends on what the definition of pouty face is, is

[Logic]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

My evidence was an utter lack of hustle on a multitude of plays during games I watched.  He looked like Jay Cutler running a route.  Guys with good attitudes don’t do stuff like that.  You might also be aware that players don’t always wear their helmets while on the sidelines.  In those cases, their faces are indeed visible.

 

IMO he is no longer a good player and IMO he would be a detriment to team chemistry, although I’m confident enough it what the Bills have built to not worry that he would ruin anything......he’d just suck.  

 

 

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

You weren’t watching Eagles games if you didn’t see the pouty face and attitude.  And don’t excuse Ertz as part of the reason the Eagles were dysfunctional....

obviously it wasn’t all on him but he did not help.

 

I think that Ertz will fail to produce for whatever team he ends up with.  He’s toast.  Your use of the word “incredible” is a little loose.  Above average in the past is about right with an emphasis on in the past.  Antonio Gates had incredible past performance.  Should the Bills sign him?  
 

Are there any players out there who you think simply would not help the Bills in any way?  If so, can you name the players who you’d sign anyway if they were only $1?  

I call BS on......pretty much everything you're saying.

First, with regard to any notion that Ertz has a bad attitude or is any kind of loafer or diva or crybaby: No. Just no. Please find anyone ever saying one bad word about Ertz's character, locker room presence, leadership, or effect on a locker room. He's been a high character player and a team leader his entire career.

Here's a quote from Ertz last year:

"I kind of play with my heart as much as I can. Obviously it’s been frustrating at times, it’s been difficult. I said all along I want to be here for the long run. I don’t know for sure and if that feeling is mutual, but I know I’m going play this year like it is my last year, and I’m gonna leave everything I possibly have in the tank for this team and the city. 

It’s what this city deserves, nothing less. So I’m going into this year that I’m gonna leave it all out there, whatever happens happens. I’ll let the details be with my agent and Howie [Roseman]. But I’m going to do everything I can to give the city what it deserves, and that’s everything I possibly have even if it means playing with that lacerated kidney. Whatever it takes to win football games and do whatever I can to kind of leave a mark on this team and the city.”

Sheesh. Really sounds like a locker room cancer.

Despite being the Eagles' all time leader in just about every major category at the tight end position and setting the all time single season receptions record at tight end, the Eagles lowballed Ertz. He was hurt and disappointed. It's not as if the "Eagles front office is dysfunctional" rumors haven't been in full swing for two years running now. Still, despite the contract nonsense, coaching turmoil, and Carson Wentz's severe regression, Ertz played through multiple injuries and did NOT mail it in or complain. Feel free to post any video or legitimate piece of evidence to the contrary. I don't think you can or will, because I don't think that evidence exists.

And one more thing, according the article at this link: https://phillysportsnetwork.com/2021/04/27/zach-ertz-trade-2/ :  

"...the arguments that Zach Ertz is slowing down are not backed by statistics. According to NFL Next Gen Stats, Ertz’s top speed and separation on routes remained nearly unchanged. In fact, he created more separation on average per route this year than in 2019! This is shocking considering his lack of production and perceived athletic decline. At the same time, Carson Wentz regressed massively."

If you don't want Ertz on the team, that's totally fine. I get it. You're certainly allowed to have that opinion. But to try to justify your position by spouting nonsense about a "pouty face" or Ertz being some kind of washed up malcontent, well...that's just absurd. All of it. He does NOT have a bad attitude, he DID play through multiple injuries, he (at least according to NFL Next Gen Stats) was STILL gaining separation, and he's about to turn 31, not 36 or something. This idea that he magically lost all of his athletic ability overnight -- which seems to be based solely on a down 2020 in which he faced multiple injuries and bad QB play and team dysfunction -- is silly. The idea that he's anything but a smart, savvy, high character veteran are not founded in reality.

While he's not a Kittle or a Kelce, the fact remains: Ertz' 2015-2019 stretch would rank as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th all time best tight end seasons in Bills history. Is he an elite game changer at the TE position? No. Is he better than any tight end currently on the Bills roster until proven otherwise? Absolutely. Is all of the stuff you said about him "pouting" based solely on your opinion and unable to be backed up by any facts, quotes, video evidence, or reality-based evidence? Yes.

 

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

We need to see the face

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

 

 

I call BS on......pretty much everything you're saying.

First, with regard to any notion that Ertz has a bad attitude or is any kind of loafer or diva or crybaby: No. Just no. Please find anyone ever saying one bad word about Ertz's character, locker room presence, leadership, or effect on a locker room. He's been a high character player and a team leader his entire career.

Here's a quote from Ertz last year:

"I kind of play with my heart as much as I can. Obviously it’s been frustrating at times, it’s been difficult. I said all along I want to be here for the long run. I don’t know for sure and if that feeling is mutual, but I know I’m going play this year like it is my last year, and I’m gonna leave everything I possibly have in the tank for this team and the city. 

It’s what this city deserves, nothing less. So I’m going into this year that I’m gonna leave it all out there, whatever happens happens. I’ll let the details be with my agent and Howie [Roseman]. But I’m going to do everything I can to give the city what it deserves, and that’s everything I possibly have even if it means playing with that lacerated kidney. Whatever it takes to win football games and do whatever I can to kind of leave a mark on this team and the city.”

Sheesh. Really sounds like a locker room cancer.

Despite being the Eagles' all time leader in just about every major category at the tight end position and setting the all time single season receptions record at tight end, the Eagles lowballed Ertz. He was hurt and disappointed. It's not as if the "Eagles front office is dysfunctional" rumors haven't been in full swing for two years running now. Still, despite the contract nonsense, coaching turmoil, and Carson Wentz's severe regression, Ertz played through multiple injuries and did NOT mail it in or complain. Feel free to post any video or legitimate piece of evidence to the contrary. I don't think you can or will, because I don't think that evidence exists.

And one more thing, according the article at this link: https://phillysportsnetwork.com/2021/04/27/zach-ertz-trade-2/ :  

"...the arguments that Zach Ertz is slowing down are not backed by statistics. According to NFL Next Gen Stats, Ertz’s top speed and separation on routes remained nearly unchanged. In fact, he created more separation on average per route this year than in 2019! This is shocking considering his lack of production and perceived athletic decline. At the same time, Carson Wentz regressed massively."

If you don't want Ertz on the team, that's totally fine. I get it. You're certainly allowed to have that opinion. But to try to justify your position by spouting nonsense about a "pouty face" or Ertz being some kind of washed up malcontent, well...that's just absurd. All of it. He does NOT have a bad attitude, he DID play through multiple injuries, he (at least according to NFL Next Gen Stats) was STILL gaining separation, and he's about to turn 31, not 36 or something. This idea that he magically lost all of his athletic ability overnight -- which seems to be based solely on a down 2020 in which he faced multiple injuries and bad QB play and team dysfunction -- is silly. The idea that he's anything but a smart, savvy, high character veteran are not founded in reality.

While he's not a Kittle or a Kelce, the fact remains: Ertz' 2015-2019 stretch would rank as the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th all time best tight end seasons in Bills history. Is he an elite game changer at the TE position? No. Is he better than any tight end currently on the Bills roster until proven otherwise? Absolutely. Is all of the stuff you said about him "pouting" based solely on your opinion and unable to be backed up by any facts, quotes, video evidence, or reality-based evidence? Yes.

 

That’s a long quote from Ertz with the veiled whining over his contract.  Post quote he went out there in 2020 and produced nothing.  The deep analytics are cute but would be unnecessary if he had actually produced results.  Look, he’s no Aaron Rodgers but there has been more drama around Ertz than the entire Bills team.  No thanks.