Offseason Primer Position Group: WR/TE

[MAJBobby]

WR/TE – AS good as the WR group was the TE group was just blah.  Also, by the time that we got to the playoffs we were Injured deeply in WRs and it showed, Only Diggs, McKenzie and maybe Brown (not sure because his play did fall off a cliff even after being on IR) healthy.  Bease playing on a fractured leg and Davis wasn’t healthy either.  I think they messed up a bit and should have elevated Stills but once game not going to second guess and this is the offseason now.  However, as a group I do think the WRs were the best on the offense, and maybe best position group on the team (could still argue the Secondary was).  Either way I am super excited the Buffalo Bills FINALLY have a top weapon group for Modern NFL Football.  They think that I don’t like about our WRs at this time they feel very specialized when we start getting to the depth, like McKenzie, Roberts.

 

Bills UFAs:

 

Andre Roberts, 33 yrs, ST/WR, 2020 AAV 2.3M, SPOTRAC Market Value: N/A – I think this is the hard one for me, while he is an excellent returner, offers nothing in terms of WR value.  While that is normally ok it showed in KC not being able to really go to another healthy WR.  Maybe he takes below market value contract.  There is some evidence that he would, he was cut before the season and despite other offers and bigger money from other teams he honored his handshake deal and re-signed with Bills, blowing off the other teams and offers.  But I do think we have McKenzie that we could re-sign for returning and offers more value because of his play on the offense as well.  I think because of that I would sign McKenzie and let Roberts walk.

 

Isaiah McKenzie, 26 years, WR, 2020 AAV: 962K, SPOTRAC Market Value: N/A – He has his role and plays that role well.  I think there is opportunity here to consolidate the two UFAs and sign one, that would be McKenzie, he keeps his role on the offense and expands his role into the return game.  I know we would be moving on from an All -Pro return man, but his age is getting up there and we must start consolidating roles a bit, KC game showed when we start getting injured at WR we don’t have more complete WRs to compete.  McKenzie on offense capability gives me more value than a ST only Roberts IMO.  So, I am going with McKenzie giving him first shot at returning as well as keep his roll on offense.

 

Tyler Kroft, 29 yrs, TE, 2020 AAV 6.25M, SPOTRAC Market Value: N/A – The professional inactive 6.25M player.  That alone tells me that he is walking, and he should.  This experiment (much like the Murphy experience) failed, never came back from the foot issues, and still even had more foot issues.  So, IMO he walks there is already better players on the team, and I think the Bills see that too with the amount he as inactive on Sundays. 

 

 On Contract WR:

 

Stefon Diggs, 27 yrs, WR, Cap Hit 12.26M, Savings 6.25M:  Diggs made me eat my words.  I remember the 2019 trade deadline when trading for him was discussed I did not view him as a player that could be a true NO 1 WR and someone that could carry the position group.  Boy was I wrong.  I always knew he was an elite route runner, but I saw a different part of his game that I did not know he had with his physical play and immediate chemistry with Josh.  He obviously is not going anywhere but needs to make sure there are other options as KC game showed when there is nothing else (injury) the offense struggled.  He had a Career year with the Bills setting his personal bests in almost every stat:  TGTs 166, Rec 127, Yards 1553 (all career bests) YPR 12.1, 8 TDs, 76.5% catch rate.  Diggs is a Stud and glad the trade was made, and my eyes opened.  He is a key to this offense and does drive it, I am more than happy having him under contract and in his prime at this point.   

 

John Brown, 31 yrs, Cap Hit: 9.52M, Savings: 7.931M – I liked Brown in 2019, but this looked like a different John Brown, and more like the one that was with the Ravens, Injured and Ineffective.  I think Davis as a 4th round cost-controlled rookie outplayed him and with that big savings number and a tradeable asset I would move on from him personally.  However, I think that move happens in or after camp, unless they need the space for something working with in UFA.  And unlike in the past a lot of times when releasing a player for the Bills opened a hole, I don’t think that hole exists with Davis rookie performance, I think he has shown he can be your WR2.  So, I think I am moving on from Brown this offseason.  His numbers TGTs 53, Rec 33, yards 458, TDs 3, 63.5% catch rate.  When you look at those numbers that is where about he has been his entire career, except for 1 year in AZ and 1 year in Buffalo. 

 

Cole Beasley 32 yrs, Cap Hit: 7.368M, Savings: 4.368M – I didn’t watch Beasley much when he was in Dallas, but I know when stationed in Ft Hood, Dallas fans would rave about how he was uncoverable.  And his two years in Buffalo I see it.  He is so good in and out of his breaks and creating separation.  Not a complaint on him as much as on the offense, it would seem there would be stretches he would not be targeted but also then heavy targets, usage was a little weird, but glad he is on the team and very valuable to the offense.  I wish he were younger because he is getting near the tail end of his career.  Much like Diggs he set his career bests this year. 107 TGTs, 82 rec, 967 yards, 4 TDs, 76.6% reception Rate, all but TDs were Beasley’s career marks.  With Diggs and Beasley there are your top 2 WRs, the rest augment these two. 

 

Gabriel Davis, 22 yrs, WR, Cap Hit: 955K, Savings: 430K – Lets start with the Rookies Numbers, 62 TGTs, 35 Rec, 599 yards, 7 TDs, 56.5% catch rate.  As a 4th round rookie with limited offseason work these are IMO great production, already at No 3 WRs numbers when you look at Diggs and Beasley before him, that are only so many footballs to go around.  I really like his 7 TDs that as a rookie getting in the endzone, there was also some more that were dropped or incomplete.  What I am a bit concerned with was his completion rate.  That is on the lower side I would rather that number be above 65% so there is some work there for the rookie to improve.  However, his play to me has made John Brown a tradable asset at this point.  Looking forward of the future with him, I think there is the high end No 2 WR is his ceiling, I also think he may be trending to prove me wrong as well because I thought Isaiah Hodgins would have been the better of the two that we drafted, early returns have me thinking I was wrong there as well.

 

Isaiah Hodgins, 23 yrs, WR, Cap Hit: 819K, Savings: 700K – Red Shirt year for him, so there is nothing really to talk about this year with him but will mention some of the stuff from his scouting report.  Wonderful body control, balance ball skills, hands, and adjustments. Has a natural feel for tracking the football and he catches everything. Makes acrobatic catches look easy in addition to handling the routine stuff. Does well to find space in zone coverage to make himself available. A true technician as a route runner and he is fairly refined. Forces his share of false steps from corners and he has some deception to him. Long and tall with a massive catch radius and he does well to extend it vertically. Outstanding skills along the sideline. The most natural hands in the class.  Issues he has had are Wont break tackles offers little to nothing after the catch, slow release off the line and ability to beat tight press is questionable.  Route Running is what has allowed him to create separation.

 

Jake Kumerow, 29 yrs, WR, Cap Hit: 920K, Savings: 920K – I just want to put his numbers as to me they are funny.  1 tgt, 1 rec, 22 yards, 1 TD, 100% rec rate.  TD Jesus needs to be a NO 1 WR with those numbers if you project them LOL.  In all seriousness I do not expect anything from him with Hodgins coming back healthy they are the similar skills with body control, etc.  Likely gone after camp.

 

Duke Williams, 28 yrs, WR, Cap Hit: 850K, Savings: 850K – I know there are Duke Truthers, but another time to move on. Might make it to camp, but time to move on from him as well, our top end WRs are just too good for him to break out on the roster as well.  I guess there is a chance but (Diggs, Davis, Beasely, Hodgins) I only see two spots on the roster for WRs.  I wish he would have transitioned to a TE, but it is too late in his timeline to do that now.

 

Tanner Gentry, 27 yrs, WR, Cap Hit: 780K, Savings: 780K – Only thing I got on him is hasn’t seen the active field since 2017 but gets a shot at least through camp due to his friendship with Josh.  End of the day I expect him cut. 

 

On Contract TE:

 

Lee Smith, 34 yrs, TE, Cap Hit: 2.25M, Savings: 2.25M – What can I say about the OT playing TE at this point, other than he will likely be here next year for the final year of his deal if he doesn’t retire.  I know there is talk about considering retirement, but I don’t see anything official yet.  He cleaned up his penalties in the run game and blocking and offered a little bit of leaking ability in the endzone.  I am fine with him retiring or sticking for one more year, he fills a role.  And I have never been a big Lee Smith person never understood why he was brought back, but I have been ok with his play.

 

Dawson Knox, 25 yrs, TE, Cap Hit: 1.085M, Savings: 675K – Knox is SO Frustrating to me.  I see the talent there at times, but then he disappears a lot as well.  I would be fine making him the TE2.  But IMO TE is a major need on this team.  I don’t need multiple top end TEs like Baltimore, but I know I need better than Knox.  When you play a game like KC where you have some injuries outside at WR, you need a TE that can fill that gap, and your TE1 should be able to handle that role.  I am not sure if I go in UFA and try and get it or draft at this point, but I want multiple TEs brought into the team this offseason.  Out of the group Knox is the only one IMO that has shown enough to at least stick, the rest there is some potential with but that is it.  Knox’s numbers have been similar both years 44 TGTs, 24 Rec, 288 yards, 3 TDs, 54.5% catch rate.  I am sorry I need better numbers from my TEs.  However, I do know there is an argument that we don’t use the TE that much, so that question always brings to me why? Is the offense designed not to use the TE or the lack of a top end TE keeping major sections of the playbook from being used?  We haven’t suffered much here because IMO a Slot WR and a TE are similar in terms of helping a QB.  If you have a good slot (Beasley) you don’t need a top end TE.  However, ONCE you have both your offense really takes off IMO.

 

Tommy Sweeney, 26 yrs, TE, Cap Hit: 875K, Savings: 825K – I know there are some Sweeney truthers out there.  I describe him as still an unknown after 2 years still not sure what we have here.  I think it is cheap enough for him to come to camp and see if we actually see something from him in year 3.  I am not counting on anything from him though at this point. 

 

Nate Becker, 25 yrs, TE, Cap Hit: 660K, Savings: 660K – I think he is likely a camp cut but could be slotted as that blocking TE if Lee Smith retires.  That is what he was mostly in college as well.

 

Reggie Gilliam, 23 yrs, TE/FB, Cap Hit: 786K, Savings 773K – I think there is something there with Gilliam.  I am not saying that he is going to be an elite TE, because on the smaller side 6-1 I don’t think he will ever be there, but as a TE/FB I think there is value for him on the team.  But as mentioned with Knox I really want some real competition brought into this group in the offseason.

 

Possible UFA TGTs (go with my top 4 or top 5)

 

I don’t think I am going to sign a WR during UFA, if anything I would look for Speed and value, but I still would draft one later, or maybe UDFA.  We are not old in that group at all but the aging depth could be worked on, even if that is with those 1 year vet deals Bills like to give out it seems.  With Josh as a QB I also think that will help us bringing in those 1-year VET WRs looking to put up numbers to land another contract.  The issue is we are pretty good in our top 4 (top 3 if you move Brown) so not sure a vet looking at this situation says yeah let’s go there to try to put numbers for a year.  TE though is a different story.  I would like to see one drafted and maybe one signed.

 

WR:  (there are a lot more but I don’t see money being used here)

 

AJ Green, 33 yrs, WR (Likely 5M AAV) – Does he want to try for a Ring???

Curtis Samuel, 25 yrs, WR (likely 10M AAV) – Want a more talented McKenzie type?

Rashard Higgins, 28, 27 (Likely 5M AAV)

 

TEs

 

Hunter Henry, 27 yrs, TE (Likely 10.5M AAV)  - This is the signing I am after.  Landing him gives me that elite TE.

Gerald Everett, 27 yrs, TE (Likely 7M AAV) – Another TE1 sitting there and offers more years left in tank than a Gronk like.

Jonnu Smith, 26 yrs, TE (Likely 7M AAV) – Another TE1 sitting there.

 

Ok to the point of what I would do.

 

I leave WRs alone.  Likely re-sign McKenzie and go into the draft with what we currently have rostered.  I think Bills will be hard to bring other WRs in that are looking to revitalize their career with a 1-year deal in hopes to land a future contract or hit UFA again with better numbers, we just have too much depth, I think.  However, might be able to get like an AJ Green type at the end of their career that would like to be on a team geared up for a run.  Now TEs though I am signing one of the 3 I listed.  Maybe an Everett or Smith is liked more by most little bit less of a talent but more reliable in terms of health.  I also could see going after one of the small fish while the big fish is being fought over.  I am trading or releasing Brown at some point. So you wont see him on my Roster below. Also I am likely drafting or signing some rookie WRs.  I think Smith retires and cutting Becker, letting Kroft walk and Signing Hunter Henry

 

WRs

Stefon Diggs, Cole Beasley, Gabriel Davis, Isaiah McKenzie, Isaiah Hodgins, Jake Kumerow, Duke Williams, Tanner Gentry

 

TEs

Hunter Henry, Dawson Knox, Tommy Sweeney, Reggie Gilliam

 

Next Writeup:  RBs

 

Past Writeups:

 

Full Overview: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/230905-buffalo-bills-offseason-primer-state-of-the-bills/

 

Defensive Line:  https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/230921-offseason-primer-position-group-dl/

 

Linebackers: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/230960-offseason-primer-position-group-lb/

 

Secondary: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/230969-offseason-primer-position-group-secondary/

 

Offensive Line: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/231560-offseason-primer-position-group-ol/

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by MAJBobby

[BuffaloRebound]

Good stuff.  Makes a lot of sense allocating Brown’s money towards an upper echelon Tight End.  We gotta be able to still move the chains when a team gets physical with our WR’s like KC did.  A legit Tight End who can also block makes the running game better too.  

[Gregthekeg]

I like all of these moves, not crazy about Hunter Henry, but injuries concern me.  He has had major injuries to both legs (ACL tear in one leg  and Fibula Break on the other)  If he signs a more incentive based contract with the Bills then I would be all for it.  I expect he will get top TE money this year.  

[MAJBobby]

Just now, Gregthekeg said:

I like all of these moves, not crazy about Hunter Henry, but injuries concern me.  He has had major injuries to both legs (ACL tear in one leg  and Fibula Break on the other)  If he signs a more incentive based contract with the Bills then I would be all for it.  I expect he will get top TE money this year.  

Agree his INJ have concerned me, but last year there was no lingering effects for the most part.  Those injuries though are the reason I almost went with Everett or Smith instead and why I mentioned it might be better signing one of them while letting everyone else battle over the big fish (Henry)

[glazeduck]

There are no easy answers to improving the TE position, right now. Honestly, the biggest development would be Knox making a jump, but it's hard to see that occuring and probably even less likely that this front office relies on that. 

Given our cap situation, the way we've addressed the position in the past and the myriad needs needing filling, I think the more likely and better ROI approach is to sign more of a Rudolph-level TE and roll with more of a 1a/1b approach at the position. I just don't think we have the resources to invest heavily here -- especially for what we'd be getting out of that investment -- and still adequately address our other needs. 

[NewEra]

I posted this in the Dazz Newsome thread that will fade into the abyss soon, so I figured this would be a better place to discuss.

 

I’m hoping that we take at least 1 WR in every draft.

 

I dug into some WR the last few days and after one go round, here are some thoughts.

 

Prospects that I would be ok taking in rd 3, possibly rd 2:

 

Tylan Wallace- I love this kid. I hope he’s our 3rd rd pick but we’ll probably have to use our 1st or 2nd on him if we want him.  (2nd rd, but 3rd would be ideal)

 

D’Wayne Eskeridge-  ❤️ (2nd rd, I don’t think he slips to our pick rd 3)
 

Dyami Brown-  while he hasn’t shown he can run all of the routes due to the system he as in, his footwork precise.  Love watching his release.  And he knows how to get deep.  Great effort as a blocker.  If we cut John Brown, Dyami and Gabe would be nice a nice pairing (3rd rd value)

 

Elijah Moore-  love the way the kid runs.  Effortless in and out of his cuts.  Little chance he makes it to us in rd 2.  Would probably have to use 30 or trade back to get him. (2nd rd value) 

 

Tutu Atwell-  a playmaker that we could use.  Mckenzie-ish, but more explosive imo (3rd rd)

 

Prospects I’d be happy with rd 5+:

 

Seth Williams-might be too emotional for us

Sage Surratt- uses body well

Josh Imatorbhebhe-  so raw.  Big upside
Ihmir Smith-Marsette- rac 

Semi Fehoko-  ball skills can move for a big

Jaelon Darden- burst 😱

Frank Darby- WR version of Fred Jackson 

Austin Watkins-  hand mcgee

Anthony Schwartz- fasted in the draft?

Marlon Williams - not sure is he’s fast enough, but I love his tenacity

 

Prospects that I really hope we don’t draft before rd 5-

 

Amon-Ra St. Brown

Nico Collins

Terrace Marshall (I’d be ok with him rd 3, but not before)

 

Random note that most won’t agree with:  if I had De’Vonta Smith, Jamar Chase and Jaylen Waddle on the board, I’d sprint to the podium with Waddles name on it.  Size might be a problem concerning injuries, but his speed and hands are the real deal.  Best playmaker in the draft imo.  I’d take him over Pitts too.  
 

another random note:  I have no idea how good Rondale Moore is.  Speed speed and more speed, but when I watch him, I don’t see him being THAT fast.  Seems like a rd 3 guy to me.

13 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

There are no easy answers to improving the TE position, right now. Honestly, the biggest development would be Knox making a jump, but it's hard to see that occuring and probably even less likely that this front office relies on that. 

Given our cap situation, the way we've addressed the position in the past and the myriad needs needing filling, I think the more likely and better ROI approach is to sign more of a Rudolph-level TE and roll with more of a 1a/1b approach at the position. I just don't think we have the resources to invest heavily here -- especially for what we'd be getting out of that investment -- and still adequately address our other needs. 

Hopefully Rudolph or Jared Cook will take a little less to compete for a title.  
 

The Bucs signed 15 free agents last year.  14 of them were one year deals, mostly taking less to play for a ring. The only multi year deal was Brady.

 

maybe Josh can bring a few free agents into the fold on cheaper deals.

[glazeduck]

24 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Prospects I’d be happy with rd 5+:

 

Seth Williams-might be too emotional for us

Sage Surratt- uses body well

Josh Imatorbhebhe-  so raw.  Big upside
Ihmir Smith-Marsette- rac 

Semi Fehoko-  ball skills can move for a big

Jaelon Darden- burst 😱

Frank Darby- WR version of Fred Jackson 

Austin Watkins-  hand mcgee

Anthony Schwartz- fasted in the draft?

Marlon Williams - not sure is he’s fast enough, but I love his tenacity

 

Prospects that I really hope we don’t draft before rd 5-

 

Amon-Ra St. Brown

Nico Collins

Terrace Marshall (I’d be ok with him rd 3, but not before)

 

Random note that most won’t agree with:  if I had De’Vonta Smith, Jamar Chase and Jaylen Waddle on the board, I’d sprint to the podium with Waddles name on it.  Size might be a problem concerning injuries, but his speed and hands are the real deal.  Best playmaker in the draft imo.  I’d take him over Pitts too.  
 

another random note:  I have no idea how good Rondale Moore is.  Speed speed and more speed, but when I watch him, I don’t see him being THAT fast.  Seems like a rd 3 guy to me.

Hopefully Rudolph or Jared Cook will take a little less to compete for a title.  
 

The Bucs signed 15 free agents last year.  14 of them were one year deals, mostly taking less to play for a ring. The only multi year deal was Brady.

 

maybe Josh can bring a few free agents into the fold on cheaper deals.

Surratt and Fehoko are both too slow and not agile enough for me. Great contested ball catchers and good body control, but we already have that in Hodgins, I think. 7th rd or UDFA, sure, but I hope we don't waste a draft pick on him. 

 

Jonathan Adams Jr. is one to check out, should definitely be on your 5+ list. Dude is a baller.

 

I think I like Chase over Waddle, but just barely. Waddle comes next and Smith is a distant 3rd for sure.

 

What do you have against Collins? With as late as our 2nd rd pick is, I wouldn't hate that pick at all.

 

Agree on the TEs, we need to find a quality player to take a good-for-us deal. Other option that I've mentioned elsewhere is moving up to take Pitts. Most don't like the idea, but if you can do 1, 2 and 3 for Pitts and two day-3 picks, I think that's a win for us, because I trust our FO to turn at least one of those late picks into something, and the bust rate of players in the 2-4 rds will likely be higher than normal this year anyway.

[MAJBobby]

35 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I posted this in the Dazz Newsome thread that will fade into the abyss soon, so I figured this would be a better place to discuss.

 

I’m hoping that we take at least 1 WR in every draft.

 

I dug into some WR the last few days and after one go round, here are some thoughts.

 

Prospects that I would be ok taking in rd 3, possibly rd 2:

 

Tylan Wallace- I love this kid. I hope he’s our 3rd rd pick but we’ll probably have to use our 1st or 2nd on him if we want him.  (2nd rd, but 3rd would be ideal)

 

D’Wayne Eskeridge-  ❤️ (2nd rd, I don’t think he slips to our pick rd 3)
 

Dyami Brown-  while he hasn’t shown he can run all of the routes due to the system he as in, his footwork precise.  Love watching his release.  And he knows how to get deep.  Great effort as a blocker.  If we cut John Brown, Dyami and Gabe would be nice a nice pairing (3rd rd value)

 

Elijah Moore-  love the way the kid runs.  Effortless in and out of his cuts.  Little chance he makes it to us in rd 2.  Would probably have to use 30 or trade back to get him. (2nd rd value) 

 

Tutu Atwell-  a playmaker that we could use.  Mckenzie-ish, but more explosive imo (3rd rd)

 

Prospects I’d be happy with rd 5+:

 

Seth Williams-might be too emotional for us

Sage Surratt- uses body well

Josh Imatorbhebhe-  so raw.  Big upside
Ihmir Smith-Marsette- rac 

Semi Fehoko-  ball skills can move for a big

Jaelon Darden- burst 😱

Frank Darby- WR version of Fred Jackson 

Austin Watkins-  hand mcgee

Anthony Schwartz- fasted in the draft?

Marlon Williams - not sure is he’s fast enough, but I love his tenacity

 

Prospects that I really hope we don’t draft before rd 5-

 

Amon-Ra St. Brown

Nico Collins

Terrace Marshall (I’d be ok with him rd 3, but not before)

 

Random note that most won’t agree with:  if I had De’Vonta Smith, Jamar Chase and Jaylen Waddle on the board, I’d sprint to the podium with Waddles name on it.  Size might be a problem concerning injuries, but his speed and hands are the real deal.  Best playmaker in the draft imo.  I’d take him over Pitts too.  
 

another random note:  I have no idea how good Rondale Moore is.  Speed speed and more speed, but when I watch him, I don’t see him being THAT fast.  Seems like a rd 3 guy to me.

Hopefully Rudolph or Jared Cook will take a little less to compete for a title.  
 

The Bucs signed 15 free agents last year.  14 of them were one year deals, mostly taking less to play for a ring. The only multi year deal was Brady.

 

maybe Josh can bring a few free agents into the fold on cheaper deals.

I like taking WRs in every draft as well.  Even deeper in the draft Elite WRs can be found late proven over and over again.  Heck even someone like a Stevie Johnson was tremendous value for a 7th.  Colston etc etc.  I think with our current WR group I dont see a 1st or 2nd used in the position this year, but some late round steals I am good with.

 

I am one that thinks you should take a WR and a CB in every draft 

[nato7412]

Im really high on curtis samuel, I think he could do great with us. Id cut brown, and let little dirty(mckenzie) walk to make space, with this id want to draft or get a udfa who can return kicks or bring back roberts for cheap. I like henry a lot but prefer samuel because hes younger and doesnt have all the injury history. With this id also try to target Pat Friermuth in the 2nd or Brevin Jordan in the 2nd or 3rd and a LB or OG in the first

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, glazeduck said:

Surratt and Fehoko are both too slow and not agile enough for me. Great contested ball catchers and good body control, but we already have that in Hodgins, I think. 7th rd or UDFA, sure, but I hope we don't waste a draft pick on him. 

 

Jonathan Adams Jr. is one to check out, should definitely be on your 5+ list. Dude is a baller.

 

I think I like Chase over Waddle, but just barely. Waddle comes next and Smith is a distant 3rd for sure.

 

What do you have against Collins? With as late as our 2nd rd pick is, I wouldn't hate that pick at all.

 

Agree on the TEs, we need to find a quality player to take a good-for-us deal. Other option that I've mentioned elsewhere is moving up to take Pitts. Most don't like the idea, but if you can do 1, 2 and 3 for Pitts and two day-3 picks, I think that's a win for us, because I trust our FO to turn at least one of those late picks into something, and the bust rate of players in the 2-4 rds will likely be higher than normal this year anyway.

Definitely worried about the speed of Surratt and Fehoko and understand why you wouldn’t like them.  I guess that’s what I don’t like about Nico Collins.  I see him as a red zone threat.  I’m not a fan of his route running and worried that he won’t get separation other than being big.....similar to Surratt and Fehoko.  Those guys may not be as fast as Collins (who I suspect will run high 4.5s), but the risk is much less, as they are 6th-7th rd picks.  No slow WRs in the 2nd rd for me please.  
 

I’ll check out Jonathan Adams Jr tonight and report back.  Thanks for the tip.  
 

regarding Pitts.....I just don’t see us trading our top 3 picks + future picks for him.  Love the player, but I think our top 3 picks will be starters for years to come at little to no cap hit.  I think they’re more valuable in bulk.  I’d rather have Zaven Collins, Dylan Radunz, Tommy tremble and next years picks we’d have to trade over Pitts.  
 

I don’t hate the idea....and if we did, I’d be stoked at the possibilities.  I’d just be worried about the salary cap going forward, as thats 2-3 less possible starters on rookie deals.

[glazeduck]

27 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Definitely worried about the speed of Surratt and Fehoko and understand why you wouldn’t like them.  I guess that’s what I don’t like about Nico Collins.  I see him as a red zone threat.  I’m not a fan of his route running and worried that he won’t get separation other than being big.....similar to Surratt and Fehoko.  Those guys may not be as fast as Collins (who I suspect will run high 4.5s), but the risk is much less, as they are 6th-7th rd picks.  No slow WRs in the 2nd rd for me please.  
 

I’ll check out Jonathan Adams Jr tonight and report back.  Thanks for the tip.  
 

regarding Pitts.....I just don’t see us trading our top 3 picks + future picks for him.  Love the player, but I think our top 3 picks will be starters for years to come at little to no cap hit.  I think they’re more valuable in bulk.  I’d rather have Zaven Collins, Dylan Radunz, Tommy tremble and next years picks we’d have to trade over Pitts.  
 

I don’t hate the idea....and if we did, I’d be stoked at the possibilities.  I’d just be worried about the salary cap going forward, as thats 2-3 less possible starters on rookie deals.

To me, Collins has DK Metcalf-like build-up speed. And with regards to his route running limitations, to invoke DK again -- I think there are obvious ways you can win with him . To be clear, I don't think he's DK (I stated numerous times on this board that I would've taken him over Oliver, let alone Ford), but I think the "math" is similar...

 

On Pitts: I agree that we *won't* trade up for Pitts. But we should. In the last 4 years, where we had all the information: tape, workouts, combine, interviews, pro days, etc., we ended up with Ford, Knox, Moss, Singletary, Harry Phillips, Zay, and Epanesa. That's not exactly a murderer's row from your day 2 picks. In that same time period, our day 3 picks that have worked out include: Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, Wyatt Teller (on another team, but he's clearly a good player), Darryl Johnson, Jaquan Johnson, Gabe Davis, Tyler Bass and jury's still out on Hodgins and Jackson (though candidly I'm not optimistic about either). You can argue that that list has performed as well, if not better than the day 2 group. So this year, given all of the additional challenges to the scouting process, 2s and 3s will be closer to 5s and 6s, when all things are said and done. Also (getting a bit pedantic here), no way in hell does Radunz fall to 60, but your point is taken. Taking Pitts kills multiple birds with one stone, is probably the most "sure thing" outside of maybe Lawrence, Sewell and Chase in this entire draft (which counts for a little extra something, in this draft) and strengthens both WR and TE units without using big FA money.

Edited March 4, 2021 by glazeduck

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

To me, Collins has DK Metcalf-like build-up speed. And with regards to his route running limitations, to invoke DK again -- I think there are obvious ways you can win with him . To be clear, I don't think he's DK (I stated numerous times on this board that I would've taken him over Oliver, let alone Ford), but I think the "math" is similar...

 

On Pitts: I agree that we *won't* trade up for Pitts. But we should. In the last 4 years, where we had all the information: tape, workouts, combine, interviews, pro days, etc., we ended up with Ford, Knox, Moss, Singletary, Harry Phillips, Zay, and Epanesa. That's not exactly a murderer's row from your day 2 picks. In that same time period, our day 3 picks that have worked out include: Taron Johnson, Siran Neal, Wyatt Teller (on another team, but he's clearly a good player), Darryl Johnson, Jaquan Johnson, Gabe Davis, Tyler Bass and jury's still out on Hodgins and Jackson (though candidly I'm not optimistic about either). You can argue that that list has performed as well, if not better than the day 2 group. So this year, given all of the additional challenges to the scouting process, 2s and 3s will be closer to 5s and 6s, when all things are said and done. Also (getting a bit pedantic here), no way in hell does Radunz fall to 60, but your point is taken. Taking Pitts kills multiple birds with one stone, is probably the most "sure thing" outside of maybe Lawrence, Sewell and Chase in this entire draft (which counts for a little extra something, in this draft) and strengthens both WR and TE units without using big FA money.

What is “build up speed”?  DK ran a 4.33 40. Is build up speed the distance past the 40 yards where he excels?  Interesting.  He’s not my guy, but I see why others would want him here.

 

regarding the picks....just because we haven’t hit gold with a 2nd or 3rd rd pick doesn’t mean anything to me. I believe that Beane and crew are some of the best in the business and trust them to hit on some early picks just as they’ve hit on later picks.   Future cap consideration is why they can’t trade 4+ high picks for one guy imo.  They traded multiple picks for a proven weapon last year.  Eventually all the lost picks add up with regards to depth and salary cap.

 
If Pitts fell to 10ish, than maybe, but I see him as a top 6 pick in this draft and should be the first skill position to go.  I’m not saying trading for him would be the right or wrong move.  He very well could win us the SB but if he’s not enough to get us over the hump, it might be a lot harder to win it in the future minus all those picks 

1 hour ago, nato7412 said:

Im really high on curtis samuel, I think he could do great with us. Id cut brown, and let little dirty(mckenzie) walk to make space, with this id want to draft or get a udfa who can return kicks or bring back roberts for cheap. I like henry a lot but prefer samuel because hes younger and doesnt have all the injury history. With this id also try to target Pat Friermuth in the 2nd or Brevin Jordan in the 2nd or 3rd and a LB or OG in the first

No thank you on Samuel.  Good player.  Too much money.  Period

[glazeduck]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

What is “build up speed”?  DK ran a 4.33 40. Is build up speed the distance past the 40 yards where he excels?  Interesting.  He’s not my guy, but I see why others would want him here.

 

"Long speed" is probably what I should've gone with.

 

 

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

If Pitts fell to 10ish, than maybe, but I see him as a top 6 pick in this draft and should be the first skill position to go.  I’m not saying trading for him would be the right or wrong move.  He very well could win us the SB but if he’s not enough to get us over the hump, it might be a lot harder to win it in the future minus all those picks 

 

Guess I should clarify here too -- I'm not thinking anything earlier than 10 either, and agree that it's cost prohibitive to go any higher than that. I don't see him going any sooner than 11 anyway, unless someone trades up. But I think you're going to see at least 3 QBs, 2 OTs, and Chase inside the top 10 for sure. That still leaves Waddle, Lance, Smith, Darrisaw and literally EVERY defensive player, for him to contend with inside the top 10. So we're definitely on the same page there.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, glazeduck said:

 

 

Jonathan Adams Jr. is one to check out, should definitely be on your 5+ list. Dude is a baller.

 

 

Impressive. Looked like a man among boys and has the uncanny ability to come down with ball.  His release looks like it needs work, but you can’t help but love his physical nature and high point timing.  
 

i hadn’t even seen his name mentioned before.  After watching some tape, that’s surprising. I’d def add him to my list.  Wonder what his overall combine will look like. 

[glazeduck]

Just now, NewEra said:

Impressive. Looked like a man among boys and has the uncanny ability to come down with ball.  His release looks like it needs work, but you can’t help but love his physical nature and high point timing.  
 

i hadn’t even seen his name mentioned before.  After watching some tape, that’s surprising. I’d def add him to my list.  Wonder what his overall combine will look like. 

LOVE his game. I kinda hope he doesn't test great to keep him under the radar more. Lower division but love his alpha mentality, and in our WR room, we'd be just fine taking a guy needing some refinement. I think he's worlds better than Hodgins.

[glazeduck]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Impressive. Looked like a man among boys and has the uncanny ability to come down with ball.  His release looks like it needs work, but you can’t help but love his physical nature and high point timing.  
 

i hadn’t even seen his name mentioned before.  After watching some tape, that’s surprising. I’d def add him to my list.  Wonder what his overall combine will look like. 

👀

[NewEra]

34 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

👀

Uhoh.....that may have just ruined our chances of getting him past round 3

[stinky finger]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

I posted this in the Dazz Newsome thread that will fade into the abyss soon, so I figured this would be a better place to discuss.

 

I’m hoping that we take at least 1 WR in every draft.

 

I dug into some WR the last few days and after one go round, here are some thoughts.

 

Prospects that I would be ok taking in rd 3, possibly rd 2:

 

Tylan Wallace- I love this kid. I hope he’s our 3rd rd pick but we’ll probably have to use our 1st or 2nd on him if we want him.  (2nd rd, but 3rd would be ideal)

 

D’Wayne Eskeridge-  ❤️ (2nd rd, I don’t think he slips to our pick rd 3)
 

Dyami Brown-  while he hasn’t shown he can run all of the routes due to the system he as in, his footwork precise.  Love watching his release.  And he knows how to get deep.  Great effort as a blocker.  If we cut John Brown, Dyami and Gabe would be nice a nice pairing (3rd rd value)

 

Elijah Moore-  love the way the kid runs.  Effortless in and out of his cuts.  Little chance he makes it to us in rd 2.  Would probably have to use 30 or trade back to get him. (2nd rd value) 

 

Tutu Atwell-  a playmaker that we could use.  Mckenzie-ish, but more explosive imo (3rd rd)

 

Prospects I’d be happy with rd 5+:

 

Seth Williams-might be too emotional for us

Sage Surratt- uses body well

Josh Imatorbhebhe-  so raw.  Big upside
Ihmir Smith-Marsette- rac 

Semi Fehoko-  ball skills can move for a big

Jaelon Darden- burst 😱

Frank Darby- WR version of Fred Jackson 

Austin Watkins-  hand mcgee

Anthony Schwartz- fasted in the draft?

Marlon Williams - not sure is he’s fast enough, but I love his tenacity

 

Prospects that I really hope we don’t draft before rd 5-

 

Amon-Ra St. Brown

Nico Collins

Terrace Marshall (I’d be ok with him rd 3, but not before)

 

Random note that most won’t agree with:  if I had De’Vonta Smith, Jamar Chase and Jaylen Waddle on the board, I’d sprint to the podium with Waddles name on it.  Size might be a problem concerning injuries, but his speed and hands are the real deal.  Best playmaker in the draft imo.  I’d take him over Pitts too.  
 

another random note:  I have no idea how good Rondale Moore is.  Speed speed and more speed, but when I watch him, I don’t see him being THAT fast.  Seems like a rd 3 guy to me.

Hopefully Rudolph or Jared Cook will take a little less to compete for a title.  
 

The Bucs signed 15 free agents last year.  14 of them were one year deals, mostly taking less to play for a ring. The only multi year deal was Brady.

 

maybe Josh can bring a few free agents into the fold on cheaper deals.

 

Love the idea of drafting a WR yearly. Gotta keep feeding Josh. 

 

I noticed my boy KT wasn't on your list. I'd grab him something swift if he's there. He's gonna be dynamite.

[glazeduck]

1 minute ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Love the idea of drafting a WR yearly. Gotta keep feeding Josh. 

 

I noticed my boy KT wasn't on your list. I'd grab him something swift if he's there. He's gonna be dynamite.

Toney?

[stinky finger]

1 minute ago, glazeduck said:

Toney?

 

yessir 

[glazeduck]

3 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

yessir 

Have a hard time with Toney. He definitely jumps off the screen, but only on occasion, and I don't think that kind of player is worthy of a 1st round pick, even though he almost certainly will be (and he'll DEFINITELY be gone before our 2nd). Could you make a case that he's basically a replacement for Smokey and McKenzie? Probably? Is he Desean Jackson or Curtis Samuel, though? I didn't see enough from him to suggest that he can be a routinely productive player at that level, and I just think his draft price is going to be too high. Now if he fell a lot farther than he's been projected, hell yeah, would love to have a player like him! I'm just not sure the price fits the talent fits the need...

[stinky finger]

9 minutes ago, glazeduck said:

Have a hard time with Toney. He definitely jumps off the screen, but only on occasion, and I don't think that kind of player is worthy of a 1st round pick, even though he almost certainly will be (and he'll DEFINITELY be gone before our 2nd). Could you make a case that he's basically a replacement for Smokey and McKenzie? Probably? Is he Desean Jackson or Curtis Samuel, though? I didn't see enough from him to suggest that he can be a routinely productive player at that level, and I just think his draft price is going to be too high. Now if he fell a lot farther than he's been projected, hell yeah, would love to have a player like him! I'm just not sure the price fits the talent fits the need...

 

I like what I've seen. Seems quite versatile and knows what to do with it and after he catches it.

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, inaugural balls said:

 

Love the idea of drafting a WR yearly. Gotta keep feeding Josh. 

 

I noticed my boy KT wasn't on your list. I'd grab him something swift if he's there. He's gonna be dynamite.

I love KT.  He’s the only WR I’d be happy taking at 30 (other than the big 3).  I just don’t think he’s going to be there.  

[BADOLBILZ]

On 3/4/2021 at 9:53 PM, NewEra said:

I love KT.  He’s the only WR I’d be happy taking at 30 (other than the big 3).  I just don’t think he’s going to be there.  

 

 

Toney reminds me of a less polished version of former Florida State star Peter Warrick.

 

Warrick broke ankles and seemed to have a million body adjustments at his disposal which allowed him great elusiveness and balance thru contact.

 

He was amazing against college tacklers........he went 4th overall.

 

But his lack of actual long speed(4.58) caught up with him in the NFL.    

 

Warrick ended up being an elusive punt returner and similar to what we see now in Cole Beasley as a receiver...........which is OK but not what you want from a first rounder.   

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Toney reminds me of a less polished version of former Florida State star Peter Warrick.

 

Warrick broke ankles and seemed to have a million body adjustments at his disposal which allowed him great elusiveness and balance thru contact.

 

He was amazing against college tacklers........he went 4th overall.

 

But his lack of actual long speed(4.58) caught up with him in the NFL.    

 

Warrick ended up being an elusive punt returner and similar to what we see now in Cole Beasley as a receiver...........which is OK but not what you want from a first rounder.   

Fair comparison with Warrick. I can see that.  He’s a borderline 1st rd talent and we have a borderline 1st rd pick.  I don’t like him as a first rd talent for every team, but I think he fits us well.  Daboll loves his gadgets and he plays that role well out of the back field and on jet sweeps and screens.  Our offense can get stagnant when the opposing D takes away the mid-deep  part of the field and forces us to take the short stuff.  Toney excels in that part of the field and can help us become more efficient.  Beasley can teach him the ropes of the slot like he did mckenzie and we could have ourselves our slot guy for the next several seasons.

 

I understand why you feel the way you do about him.  I also understand why I feel the way I do about him.  I like his fit on our team more than I like his ability as a first rd talent. 

[Victory Formation]

I’d be really happy if we re-signed Tyler Kroft and then brought Kyle Rudolph in. Let them battle it out with Dawson Knox, Lee Smith and Tommy Sweeney. It would be nice to have some depth there and I think it would open up some Twin TE sets and big sets that we could both run and pass in. I think that’d be a good wrinkle for this offense. It would be much easier to run in those formations, which would be great for Moss and Singletary whom I feel are underrated. 
 

At WR, I like the idea of cutting John Brown. I think he’s finished. I’d go after someone like Dede Westbrook to come in and bring speed on a relatively cheap contract. Probably wouldn’t cost a whole lot more than McKenzie and obviously I do think you re-sign McKenzie. I think Diggs, Davis, Beasley, Westbrook and McKenzie is a good looking unit. Hopefully we can bring in a speed guy in the draft that can return kicks and hopefully develop into a weapon for Josh. Some say Elijah Moore, some say Dazz Newsome. I think I’d prefer Moore if he is there in RD3, but Newsome may not be a bad option in RD5. Regardless, I do think WR is a need, may not be an overwhelming need but still a need.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Victory Formation

[billsfan89]

If this staff believes in Knox then go after Kyle Rudolph or a cheaper vet option. If they don’t believe in Knox then you have to go after a bigger fish.

[LyndonvilleBill]

Put this in another thread by mistake. Probably better here.

 

What about Marquez Stevenson? Any idea where he will truly get drafted? I see everything from 3rd-7th round.... But I am thinking 4-5 maybe?

 

[Rc2catch]

Khalif Raymond come on down. Will be dirt cheap, can return and play mckenzies role on offense too and is faster. He a small guy but Tennessee almost never used him as they don’t run too many receivers at all out there. 
He would be a under the radar cheap signing with a lot of potential. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

I’d be really happy if we re-signed Tyler Kroft and then brought Kyle Rudolph in.

 

Can you explain a bit why you feel this way?

 

 

[Victory Formation]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Can you explain a bit why you feel this way?

 

 

Struggled a lot with injuries, veteran TE who has the potential to haul in 30-40 catches as say the #2 option. We should be able to re-sign him for very little guaranteed money, knows the offense, solid camp body that can be cut for no cost. I just figure that between Kroft, Rudolph, Sweeney and Knox that we’d be able to squeeze some decent production out of that group and hopefully run some bigger sets which I think could add balance in the run game and passing game. Obviously we could draft a guy, but at TE, there’s usually a learning curve. 

[Mark Vader]

I would like to see McKenzie brought back and keep John Brown with a pay cut.

 

Don't know who we would target in the draft as this position is not a dire need.

 

Looking forward to how Davis will approach his second year and finally getting to see Hodgins.

[Solomon Grundy]

On 3/4/2021 at 5:12 PM, NewEra said:

Impressive. Looked like a man among boys and has the uncanny ability to come down with ball.  His release looks like it needs work, but you can’t help but love his physical nature and high point timing.  
 

i hadn’t even seen his name mentioned before.  After watching some tape, that’s surprising. I’d def add him to my list.  Wonder what his overall combine will look like. 

Why is there no love for this guy?? I see you're okay with him

Edited March 8, 2021 by Solomon Grundy

[NewEra]

30 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Why is there no love for this guy?? I see you're okay with him

I have love, I just don’t think he’s going to be on the board when we pick.  I’m praying that Micah Parsons falls to us, but I haven’t talked about him because I don’t think there’s any chance he’s on the board.  KD obviously isn’t in the same type of prospect Parsons is, but I just think he’ll be gone before our pick.  
 

the guy I wish I had mentioned is Rashod Bateman.  I think he’s legit and would be amazing opposite 14.  For w/e reason, I just don’t think we pull the trigger on him

[The Jokeman]

On 3/4/2021 at 6:57 PM, inaugural balls said:

 

I like what I've seen. Seems quite versatile and knows what to do with it and after he catches it.

He could be another Percy Harvin or Coradelle Patterson. That said I'm not putting WR as our top pick.

Edited March 8, 2021 by The Jokeman

[glazeduck]

Njoku needs to be in the TE discussion too. There's no long term future for him in Cleveland and he's popped when shown opportunity and healthy. He'd be a phenomenal complement to Knox and shouldn't cost a lot salary or trade compensation-wise... He might be as close to what I'd consider "perfect" a move as there is in the current TE market, actually...

[whatdrought]

Every once in a great while I think about how nice it could be to convert John Brown, Isaiah McKenzie, and Andre Roberts into Curtis Samuel.... 

[The Jokeman]

On 3/6/2021 at 6:34 PM, Victory Formation said:

Struggled a lot with injuries, veteran TE who has the potential to haul in 30-40 catches as say the #2 option. We should be able to re-sign him for very little guaranteed money, knows the offense, solid camp body that can be cut for no cost. I just figure that between Kroft, Rudolph, Sweeney and Knox that we’d be able to squeeze some decent production out of that group and hopefully run some bigger sets which I think could add balance in the run game and passing game. Obviously we could draft a guy, but at TE, there’s usually a learning curve. 

Kroft not being active down the stretch tell me he's gone. I think we could go hard after Gerald Everett as seems like he'd be an upgrade to Knox or if looking for a shorter contract maybe a Richard Rodgers who might not be better than Knox but has a chance to be more consistent.

 

 

 

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, The Jokeman said:

He could be another Percy Harvin or Coradelle Patterson. That said I'm not putting WR as our top pick.

 

I like the comparison to Harvin.

 

 I get WR isn't a "need", but he'd be tough to pass up at 30. He'll go early to mid 20's.

 

I think he'd be a tremendous weapon for Josh and this offense.

[The Jokeman]

16 minutes ago, inaugural balls said:

 

I like the comparison to Harvin.

 

 I get WR isn't a "need", but he'd be tough to pass up at 30. He'll go early to mid 20's.

 

I think he'd be a tremendous weapon for Josh and this offense.

How many weapons at WR do we need? To me we need to improve our OGs, TEs on offense toss in 2nd CB and pass rush and likely replace Milano and could do so with pick 30 before I'd even think of help at WR.