The January 6th Commission To Investigate The Insurrection

[Tenhigh]

Maybe I am just cynical, but to me this is about 95% political theater.

[Doc]

4 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

Maybe I am just cynical, but to me this is about 95% political theater.

 

Of course it's 100% political theater.  If the FBI couldn't uncover anything in the past year and a half, what makes you think a bunch of Congresscritters can? 

 

No one really cares about this because most realize it was a protest that got out-of-hand and that the government was never in any danger.  The only ones who care and believe it are those on the left who can't admit that Biden's been a disaster and need anything they can get to hopefully stave-off the massacre that's coming in November.  It doesn't really matter when they hold this dog-and-pony show, but they are holding it way too early.

[Orlando Tim]

8 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Investigations take time. Especially when witnesses don't cooperate.

 

Taking the time to do a thorough investigation is better than rushing through it. That being said, there's a hard stop they need to account for because the GOP will shut down the committee in January in the very likely event that they take the House.

When you have all the video that they have there is limited need for testimony. But you are new I ask again- what is the purpose of this "investigation"? 

[ChiGoose]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

When you have all the video that they have there is limited need for testimony. But you are new I ask again- what is the purpose of this "investigation"? 

There was an attempt to overthrow an election result based on conspiracies and a wild misreading of the law. The point of the investigation is to determine what exactly happened and how it can be prevented in the future. 
 

The video is good for going after the people in the crowd but it is important to know if there was an actual plot to storm the Capitol, and if so, who was involved. That takes more than cameras. It takes investigation, interrogations, charging the small fish to get them to roll on bigger fish, etc.

 

I’m not going to pretend to know if there was some grand conspiracy that rolls up to Trump (“We finally got him!” -Some Libs for the 20th time…) but we exist as a nation because of the peaceful transition of power. People tried to prevent it in 2020 and it would be good to know how to shut that down in the future. 

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

There was an attempt to overthrow an election result based on conspiracies and a wild misreading of the law. The point of the investigation is to determine what exactly happened and how it can be prevented in the future. 
 

The video is good for going after the people in the crowd but it is important to know if there was an actual plot to storm the Capitol, and if so, who was involved. That takes more than cameras. It takes investigation, interrogations, charging the small fish to get them to roll on bigger fish, etc.

 

I’m not going to pretend to know if there was some grand conspiracy that rolls up to Trump (“We finally got him!” -Some Libs for the 20th time…) but we exist as a nation because of the peaceful transition of power. People tried to prevent it in 2020 and it would be good to know how to shut that down in the future. 

To prevent in future have extra guards at the Capitol when there is a known protest in town. If they wanted to know about the conspiracy then we would need to speak with Nancy Pelosi to determine why she refused extra security. Or mayor Bowser to see why she rejected the National Guard. Also we already tried Trump for causing it in Congress, so unless everyone who voted to impeach is admitting they did so for dishonest reasons there is no reason for this sham. Lastly we have seen enough pictures to know this was not some grand conspiracy of Trump people, this is 100% political and you know it 

[ChiGoose]

10 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

To prevent in future have extra guards at the Capitol when there is a known protest in town. If they wanted to know about the conspiracy then we would need to speak with Nancy Pelosi to determine why she refused extra security. Or mayor Bowser to see why she rejected the National Guard. Also we already tried Trump for causing it in Congress, so unless everyone who voted to impeach is admitting they did so for dishonest reasons there is no reason for this sham. Lastly we have seen enough pictures to know this was not some grand conspiracy of Trump people, this is 100% political and you know it 

I think there are still some unanswered questions (what was Trump doing during the attack?) and I’m curious to see what is in Mark Meadow’s texts. 
 

I am not going to draw any conclusions until we see the evidence but it’s surprising to me that people wouldn’t want to know what the committee has found. 

[Orlando Tim]

1 minute ago, ChiGoose said:

I think there are still some unanswered questions (what was Trump doing during the attack?) and I’m curious to see what is in Mark Meadow’s texts. 
 

I am not going to draw any conclusions until we see the evidence but it’s surprising to me that people wouldn’t want to know what the committee has found. 

We know what the committee has found- nothing of importance. There is literally nothing they will find because the few people who could have benefitted are not Trump or any Republican.

[BillsFanNC]

June 4th 2022.

 

Number of Americans charged with insurrection:

 

0.0

[BillsFanNC]

9 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

I think there are still some unanswered questions (what was Trump doing during the attack?) and I’m curious to see what is in Mark Meadow’s texts. 
 

 

 

Yes, it would be great to know what exactly Trump was doing after he explicitly asked people to do this.

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

5 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

I think there are still some unanswered questions (what was Trump doing during the attack?) and I’m curious to see what is in Mark Meadow’s texts. 
 

I am not going to draw any conclusions until we see the evidence but it’s surprising to me that people wouldn’t want to know what the committee has found. 

What is it that you’re looking to know? The event happened, people walked into the Capitol, and then ….went home. No?

[Beach]

23 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What is it that you’re looking to know? The event happened, people walked into the Capitol, and then ….went home. No?

some of us walked around the outside of the Capitol, then went to our hotels and partied in the lobby all night

[ChiGoose]

34 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

What is it that you’re looking to know? The event happened, people walked into the Capitol, and then ….went home. No?

Was there an organized plan to prevent the certification of the election, and if so, who was involved and what role did they play?

 

While most of the people there were likely just swept up into the rally fervor, it is important to know if there were people who actually planned to prevent certification and what actions they took. 

Edited June 4, 2022 by ChiGoose
Typo

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, Beach said:

some of us walked around the outside of the Capitol, then went to our hotels and partied in the lobby all night

Mystery solved…..

1 minute ago, ChiGoose said:

Was there an organized plan to prevent the certification of the election, and if so, who was involved and what plea did they play?

 

While most of the people there were likely just swept up into the rally fervor, it is important to know if there were people who actually planned to prevent certification and what actions they took. 

Sheeesh….yes I’m sure you’re right. The master plan by the evil genius was to send a guy dressed like a bear into the rotunda so as to overthrow the government. Come on now. We ALL saw what happened. There’s real time video. Enough already. 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

Was there an organized plan to prevent the certification of the election, and if so, who was involved and what role did they play?

 

While most of the people there were likely just swept up into the rally fervor, it is important to know if there were people who actually planned to prevent certification and what actions they took. 

 

Obviously there was no plan since no weapons were brought to the Capitol.  The Oath Keepers brought some to DC, but left them in their hotel rooms.  Without weapons (and Joke said it would take F-15s and nukes to overthrow a goverment), there was no threat to our democracy, and everyone left on their own after getting bored.

[ChiGoose]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Mystery solved…..

Sheeesh….yes I’m sure you’re right. The master plan by the evil genius was to send a guy dressed like a bear into the rotunda so as to overthrow the government. Come on now. We ALL saw what happened. There’s real time video. Enough already. 

Well, if that’s all there is, the hearings will certainly be a dud. But if they have evidence of a plot to prevent certification or that those with authority to call in help to stop the insurrection intentionally did not do so, then we should see it. 
 

And that kind of evidence wouldn’t be something seen on Capitol security cameras.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

Well, if that’s all there is, the hearings will certainly be a dud. But if they have evidence of a plot to prevent certification or that those with authority to call in help to stop the insurrection intentionally did not do so, then we should see it. 
 

And that kind of evidence wouldn’t be something seen on Capitol security cameras.

And when exactly was THAT plan supposed to be carried out?  Was it after the guy in the bear suit left the building?  Come on! Enough already.

[Doc]

Just now, ChiGoose said:

Well, if that’s all there is, the hearings will certainly be a dud. But if they have evidence of a plot to prevent certification or that those with authority to call in help to stop the insurrection intentionally did not do so, then we should see it. 
 

And that kind of evidence wouldn’t be something seen on Capitol security cameras.

 

Actually I'd like to know who prevented additional security from being provided and for that person to face some kind of punishment.

[ChiGoose]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

And when exactly was THAT plan supposed to be carried out?  Was it after the guy in the bear suit left the building?  Come on! Enough already.

I don’t personally know, but potentially to cause enough disruption to prevent certification that day and give people like John Eastman more time to make legal arguments. Or maybe it’s nothing! But it’s insane to not even look into it. 

 

I see no reason to believe the QAnon Shaman was part of a plan. He was likely just another poor mark who got swept up into the fervor. 

 

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Actually I'd like to know who prevented additional security from being provided and for that person to face some kind of punishment.

Agreed. Me too. 

[Warcodered]

 

 

There had to be a smarter way to phrase what he was saying.

[L Ron Burgundy]

1 hour ago, Warcodered said:

 

 

There had to be a smarter way to phrase what he was saying.

Gohmert and smart have never and will never belong in the same sentence unless smart is preceded by the word not.

 

I couldn't believe what I heard even knowing beforehand this orc took the short bus to school. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Actually I'd like to know who prevented additional security from being provided and for that person to face some kind of punishment.

There seems to be no political will to answer this question, probably the very type of question a non-biased political tribunal should investigate.  
 

Instead, we get this crazy carnival game.  It’s an appropriate place to remind ourselves that Biden’s approval numbers, as bad as they are, are certainly better than those of our leaders in Congress.  
 

Very few people trust these numbskulls, deservedly so. 

[Buftex]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

There seems to be no political will to answer this question, probably the very type of question a non-biased political tribunal should investigate.  
 

Instead, we get this crazy carnival game.  It’s an appropriate place to remind ourselves that Biden’s approval numbers, as bad as they are, are certainly better than those of our leaders in Congress.  
 

Very few people trust these numbskulls, deservedly so. 

It's a crazy carnival game because MAGA Republicans are making it that way...people who truly care about this country should be very concerned...we are losing the rule of law...

 

[Doc]

9 hours ago, Buftex said:

It's a crazy carnival game because MAGA Republicans are making it that way...people who truly care about this country should be very concerned...we are losing the rule of law...

 

Yeah, as we saw during 2020. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

9 hours ago, Buftex said:

It's a crazy carnival game because MAGA Republicans are making it that way...people who truly care about this country should be very concerned...we are losing the rule of law...

 

It’s presumptuous to assume others don’t “truly care” about the country when they hold opinions other than yours.  It’s foolish to refuse to acknowledge the inherent bias and manipulative tendencies of a political committee in Washington.  However, kudos to you if you feel that search for the greater good is the common thread running through all these gatherings regardless of which party is in charge.  
 

I look to the appropriate law enforcement agency to investigate issues regarding the “rule of law”.  While imperfect, there are standards of professional conduct and rules of engagement that do not exist in the underworld of Washington investigatory committees.  
 

The interesting part to me is that we likely agree on all this, or will when if the house flips later this year and the subjects/targets of political committees change sides. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

It’s presumptuous to assume others don’t “truly care” about the country when they hold opinions other than yours.  It’s foolish to refuse to acknowledge the inherent bias and manipulative tendencies of a political committee in Washington.  However, kudos to you if you feel that search for the greater good is the common thread running through all these gatherings regardless of which party is in charge.  
 

I look to the appropriate law enforcement agency to investigate issues regarding the “rule of law”.  While imperfect, there are standards of professional conduct and rules of engagement that do not exist in the underworld of Washington investigatory committees.  
 

The interesting part to me is that we likely agree on all this, or will when if the house flips later this year and the subjects/targets of political committees change sides. 

 

It's interesting to hear people who want to "fundamentally transform the country" talking about others not caring about the country. 

[Buftex]

5 hours ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

It’s presumptuous to assume others don’t “truly care” about the country when they hold opinions other than yours.  It’s foolish to refuse to acknowledge the inherent bias and manipulative tendencies of a political committee in Washington.  However, kudos to you if you feel that search for the greater good is the common thread running through all these gatherings regardless of which party is in charge.  
 

I look to the appropriate law enforcement agency to investigate issues regarding the “rule of law”.  While imperfect, there are standards of professional conduct and rules of engagement that do not exist in the underworld of Washington investigatory committees.  
 

The interesting part to me is that we likely agree on all this, or will when if the house flips later this year and the subjects/targets of political committees change sides. 

Don't forget, Republicans had the chance to have a greater representation on this committee... but in their attempt to further promote their BS narrative that nothing nefarious happened on 1/6/2020, they declined.  

[All_Pro_Bills]

22 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Actually I'd like to know who prevented additional security from being provided and for that person to face some kind of punishment.

Ask the Speaker of the House.  Capitol security reports into the Speaker's office.  I'm sure Nancy will be forthcoming and agreeable in answering all questions about why requests from Capitol Polce on duty that day for additional security were refused and ignored.   

[Orlando Tim]

23 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

Well, if that’s all there is, the hearings will certainly be a dud. But if they have evidence of a plot to prevent certification or that those with authority to call in help to stop the insurrection intentionally did not do so, then we should see it. 
 

And that kind of evidence wouldn’t be something seen on Capitol security cameras.

The best part is you are actually arguing that the FBI couldn't find a shred of evidence to prove this but you think a bunch of politicians will. 

17 hours ago, Buftex said:

It's a crazy carnival game because MAGA Republicans are making it that way...people who truly care about this country should be very concerned...we are losing the rule of law...

 

Ignorance must be bliss, but to watch the summer of 2020 burn down cities without repercussions, ignore laws for how ballots are distributed and collected, and you have this charade after impeaching because Trump riled them up, it must be hard to just see the problems Trump caused. And before you go full stupid, I accept the 2020 election is what it is based on Covid but still would like to improve the future elections so these questions are not asked again 

[ChiGoose]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

The best part is you are actually arguing that the FBI couldn't find a shred of evidence to prove this but you think a bunch of politicians will. 

I am not arguing that at all because I understand the difference between an FBI investigation and a congressional one. 

[Orlando Tim]

1 hour ago, ChiGoose said:

I am not arguing that at all because I understand the difference between an FBI investigation and a congressional one. 

Then I ask again- what do you expect them to find with this hearing? Anything criminal the FBI can find much easier, and is better equipped. There is truly nothing of importance or validity that they COULD find that has not been found by the FBI. 

[ChiGoose]

26 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Then I ask again- what do you expect them to find with this hearing? Anything criminal the FBI can find much easier, and is better equipped. There is truly nothing of importance or validity that they COULD find that has not been found by the FBI. 

 

Once again, there is a tremendous difference between an FBI investigation and an congressional investigation. There are also things that could be bad that don't amount to be crimes. There are things that might amount to crimes but lack sufficient evidence to bring a charge (since the DoJ is only supposed to charge when the believe they will convict, with few exceptions)

 

I don't have any real expectations of the hearings. I do not know what they have. I do not believe this is the final "we got him!" of Trump. I am not confident that actual criminal charges will follow the hearings But I do know that there are things a congressional investigation might uncover and disclose that the FBI never would reveal. And I know that if we want to prevent insurrections in the future, we better have a clear idea of what happened on January 6th, regardless of whether or not it sends people to jail.

 

I find the idea of "it's either actual chargeable crimes or nothing" to be a bright line that does not reflect reality and allows people to take political coverage to defend their own side from bad behavior. It's a handwaving dismissal of potentially real issues that people will claim for their own political interests.

Edited June 6, 2022 by ChiGoose

[Orlando Tim]

28 minutes ago, ChiGoose said:

 

Once again, there is a tremendous difference between an FBI investigation and an congressional investigation. There are also things that could be bad that don't amount to be crimes. There are things that might amount to crimes but lack sufficient evidence to bring a charge (since the DoJ is only supposed to charge when the believe they will convict, with few exceptions)

 

I don't have any real expectations of the hearings. I do not know what they have. I do not believe this is the final "we got him!" of Trump. I am not confident that actual criminal charges will follow the hearings But I do know that there are things a congressional investigation might uncover and disclose that the FBI never would reveal. And I know that if we want to prevent insurrections in the future, we better have a clear idea of what happened on January 6th, regardless of whether or not it sends people to jail.

 

I find the idea of "it's either actual chargeable crimes or nothing" to be a bright line that does not reflect reality and allows people to take political coverage to defend their own side from bad behavior. It's a handwaving dismissal of potentially real issues that people will claim for their own political interests.

I truly believe you are being honest but when you have to defend each simple concept with three long paragraphs, maybe consider it is just political hackery. As I keep asking what do you think you might find out? Or do you actually think the FBI is keeping secrets to benefit Trump? We know what happens on January 6th, and I fully support arresting those who were violent or broke into the capitol but you keep acting like they are doing an investigation when it is only opposition research funded by the US taxpayer.

[ChiGoose]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I truly believe you are being honest but when you have to defend each simple concept with three long paragraphs, maybe consider it is just political hackery. As I keep asking what do you think you might find out?

 

I think this is the big problem. If you are looking for a prediction or clear marker, I cannot give it to you. I do not know what the hearings will show.

 

But I also know that the standards for a criminal investigation and a congressional investigation are very different.

 

If people don't understand that, then I'm not sure what the point of further discussion is because we'd just be talking past each other.

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

8 hours ago, Buftex said:

Don't forget, Republicans had the chance to have a greater representation on this committee... but in their attempt to further promote their BS narrative that nothing nefarious happened on 1/6/2020, they declined.  

They declined because they knew it was a political tribunal, and that the goal of the committee was to shape the narrative moving forward.  That’s what political parties do. 
 

They also knew that should something nefarious have occurred, gathering evidence of a crime and prosecuting that crime would be handled by law enforcement.    I’m actually surprised that you don’t know that. 
 

Be that as it may…it’s been nearly a year and a half.  What’s the Jan 6th committee uncovered with respect to Donald Trump on a criminal basis as it relates to the actions of the god-awful morons that behaved criminally on January 6?   

[Buftex]

1 hour ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

They declined because they knew it was a political tribunal, and that the goal of the committee was to shape the narrative moving forward.  That’s what political parties do. 
 

They also knew that should something nefarious have occurred, gathering evidence of a crime and prosecuting that crime would be handled by law enforcement.    I’m actually surprised that you don’t know that. 
 

Be that as it may…it’s been nearly a year and a half.  What’s the Jan 6th committee uncovered with respect to Donald Trump on a criminal basis as it relates to the actions of the god-awful morons that behaved criminally on January 6?   

But MAGA's think that law enforcement is in on some conspiracy, when it is convenient for their conspiracy theories. Our political system wasn't always this hopelessly dysfunctional, even when we have had heavy disagreement. When Clinton was impeached, as absurd as that situation was, elected Republicans and Democrats weren't threatening to burn everything down...and they cooperated with investigations.

[Orlando Tim]

9 hours ago, ChiGoose said:

 

I think this is the big problem. If you are looking for a prediction or clear marker, I cannot give it to you. I do not know what the hearings will show.

 

But I also know that the standards for a criminal investigation and a congressional investigation are very different.

 

If people don't understand that, then I'm not sure what the point of further discussion is because we'd just be talking past each other.

I am literally asking what could possibly be found by this hearing, that is not simply opposition research, that the FBI would not find easier and better? We know crimes were committed, so arrest them. If you think there was a conspiracy let the FBI handle it, because we all know politicians lie.

[Doc]

This is a political stunt.  The FBI would be investigating any criminality and would have already uncovered something well before now.  That this needs to even be clarified is amazing.

[ALF]

 

Liz Cheney is by far my favorite very Conservative Republican  🙂        (I did not like her father) 

[ChiGoose]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

I am literally asking what could possibly be found by this hearing, that is not simply opposition research, that the FBI would not find easier and better? We know crimes were committed, so arrest them. If you think there was a conspiracy let the FBI handle it, because we all know politicians lie.

And I am continuing to say that a congressional investigation is not an FBI or even criminal investigation. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. 
 

The committee’s remit is NOT to look for crimes. It’s to understand what happened and recommend legislation to prevent it in the future. Continued deflection to the FBI and saying that nothing went wrong if there was no chargeable crimes is just asinine. 

[Doc]

38 minutes ago, ALF said:

Liz Cheney is by far my favorite very Conservative Republican  🙂        (I did not like her father) 

 

Enjoy her while she's there.  Which won't be much longer. 

 

Joe Manchin OTOH...