So a super fast, physical, and aggressive front 7 is the key...

[DrPJax]

51 minutes ago, biggerdaddynj said:

Beane failed with his d-line moves this past off season (and he had a lot to invest—thankfully he was smart and can get us out of most of the bad deals).  I appreciate what he’s done but he’s gotta own the bad along with the good.  
 

It all starts up front with the d-line  and has a domino effect—that pressure was always how you beat Brady—ask the Giants’ teams.  
 

Hope Beane can make something happen but with the Covid cap issue and not having a surplus of picks, it’s going to be hard.  That’s why I agree—a couple more years.  
 

We did great this year and are on the right track looking back (I personally think ahead) so let’s not all get negative.  Having arrived sooner than expected puts pressure on us too, this offseason will be very important.  

Not sure about this arriving sooner than expected. Too many teams , like TB , have shown with the right moves you can turn things around in a season. I mean the browns , fins , both made great progress this season. The browns look better on D and they have a better running game than we do.  We have josh,  diggs who bailed us out. Beane has been a master on the O with finding our QB, good receivers in FA & the draft.  However , he has also missed on tight end , our rbs appear avg at best , our interior o line was a mess except for Morse who was still solid.

 

Beane has missed significantly on the d  ( Murphy, Addison, really all the FA on d.  Norman ?  Wallace as our second corner.  Epenesa is marginal, esp given rushing the qb is supposedly an easy thing for rookies to pick up ,   Our lbs looked best when Klein got hot , but then he was benched and never used appropriately after Milano got back. ). and look how we got beaten by KC and how TB beat them; pressure on the qb and stopping the run while also pressing the tight ends and receivers from KC.  We play 7-8 yards off receivers all year except against Denver and Pittsburgh I believe. TB managed with pressure and also playing physical to neutralize Kelce and hill and mahomes had his worst game as a pro.  Beane and Mcd better learn from this blueprint.  Need to run more next year , just like TB did to keep the d s honest. Get out of zones dropping corners so far off and dropping the lbs ( esp edmunds who almost always drops 7-9 yards off the Los on any passing down ) so we quit giving up unimpeded routes to tight ends and crossing Wes and backs.    The d scheme tonight for TB was amazing.  Tb didn’t panic when they didn’t score right away either. Stuck to mixing in the run. It wasn’t even a gsme tomignt just like the afc championship game. We can turn this around tho with good draft , better coaching along the lines , and fixing the run game while we begin rebuilding our d front 7. 

[Da webster guy]

58 minutes ago, streetkings01 said:

The return of Vita Vea really put that defense on another level. I focused on him a few times just because it seemed like every play he was walking an olineman 5-10 yards backwards.

He's awesome.

Tampa played the 2018 draft well, trading back with us to 12 from 7, picked up a pair of 2nd round picks and still got Vita Vea who was a monster in there for these playoffs.

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, ScottLaw said:

Well Barrett, Suh, and David are FAs. Maybe we can lure one or two of em. 
 

 

Would be nice.  Too bad we didn’t have them this year when the chiefs started their OL B team

 

i think it could cost billions to get them to leave TB.  
 

carlos basham anyone? ? 

[The Frankish Reich]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That DL is a wrecking crew backed by the best 1-2 LB unit in the league. The secondary is aggressive and physical.  I don’t think it’s possible for us to build that kind of front 7.  Suh, barret and jpp are all premier pass rushing demons and Vea is a force of nature 

Yeah, this is kind of a "let's put together a super group for one last concert tour" thing. Suh was the most dominant interior defensive lineman in his prime. JPP one of the best pass rushers. Shaq Barrett is a current Pro Bowler who just keeps getting better. All veterans, all still with enough physical talent to turn it on again for one epic playoff run. I'm not sure that's something anyone else can copy.

[Cray51]

The Bucs just ran a similar concept to the Bills in their approach against the Chiefs.  High safeties to take away the deep ball and keep Mahomes from breaking the game in one play.  The difference was at the D line and Linebacker positions.  Lavonte David played great coverage on Kelce in the first half.  White brought physicality and swarmed anything on the perimeter.  He was able to track guys like Hill and hardmen.

 

At the D line, their front 4 was able to push the pocket back.  You saw how often Mahomes broke the pocket, and by the third quarter he was LOOKING to do so.  Mahomes was actually rattled this game.  The first time in his career he was rattled.  He looked like a rookie Josh allen in there.

 

They played soft zone more in the second half, but kept everything in front of them and their dline was able to bring pressure.

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, streetkings01 said:

The return of Vita Vea really put that defense on another level. I focused on him a few times just because it seemed like every play he was walking an olineman 5-10 yards backwards.

A friend of mine was asking how big it was that he was returning against Green Bay and I tried to explain to him that he was playing like one of the best DTs in the league already. Their GM still gets ***** on all the time for taking the K in the 2nd round (which is indefensible even if their history of kickers is laughably bad), but he’s really done an excellent job in the draft. Vea, Wirfs, White, Davis, Winfield, Godwin, all studs. Cant remember if he’s also the one that took Ali Marpet but he is too. They have some old players like Brady and JPP, but this is a young and extremely talented team and they have the cap space to keep all their talent too. 

Edited February 8, 2021 by DCOrange

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Yeah, this is kind of a "let's put together a super group for one last concert tour" thing. Suh was the most dominant interior defensive lineman in his prime. JPP one of the best pass rushers. Shaq Barrett is a current Pro Bowler who just keeps getting better. All veterans, all still with enough physical talent to turn it on again for one epic playoff run. I'm not sure that's something anyone else can copy.

And the guys in back of them are Devin White and Lavonte David.  
 

david could be a hofer now and white looks well on his way to be the league next dominant mlb, if he’s not already:  

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

We are sadly 2 offseasons away

...😢😢😢 We are severly undermanned.

Well you can’t just snap such a thing in to being. The Bills managed to land a top-3 QB and an all-pro cornerback in 4 years. Maybe see what the team does now before doomposting.

 

Tampa lucked into Brady after building its defense. 

[The Frankish Reich]

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

And the guys in back of them are Devin White and Lavonte David.  
 

david could be a hofer now and white looks well on his way to be the league next dominant mlb, if he’s not already:  

True. "Let's do what Tampa did with its front 7" is easier said than done.

Steve Young just pointed that out - high-powered offenses can be shut down when 4 guys are sufficient to bring pressure. But the examples of that happening were the Giants in 2012, Ravens in 2013, Broncos in 2015. And no team in the rest of the past decade.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Average starters with an average heavy rotation along the defensive line. Get rid of the heavy rotations and bring in some actual studs along the front four. McD needs to change his philosophy a bit. Can’t win it all with your QB carrying the team and basically JAGs everywhere else. 

To be fair to McD, he ran an elite defensive line in 2013 that had freaking 60(!!) sacks. They were second in both points and yards allowed that year, but were arguably the best D in the league. That said, it’s worth noting that their best pass rusher by far was a legit criminal: Greg Hardy.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

2 hours ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

We are sadly 2 offseasons away

...😢😢😢 We are severly undermanned.

 

All depends on who we get to fill those spots, the DTs are fast and aggressive , Hughes is solid, if we can get a top DE opposite him we can get after the passer better. Maybe JJ Watt becomes available.

 

We really got after Lamar jackson pretty good, we needed to employ the same strategy with Mahomes.

 

 

[jahnyc]

Just seems to me that Tampa has a lot more talent than we do overall, particularly with their o-line, d-line, linebackers, running backs and TEs.  We have a lot of guys who are a bit above average or above average, but not many blue chip players at these positions.  Edmunds continues to be the biggest mystery to me.  He gets a lot of tackles and gets votes for the various all-star teams at his position, but his instincts seem to be off.  It becomes more noticeable when you watch TBs linebackers play.

[Norcalbillsfan]

2 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

agree we are undermanned in the front 7.  I thnk a real MLB, move Edmunds outside helps the LB issue, getting Tomlinson in FA helps the DL temendously.  Need a legit pass rusher in FA as well (Yannick?), then draft a RB and OL.  I think we trade back in the draft to acquire all these parts.  We can do it in one offseason.  

If we find a way to afford Yannick then beane is a wizard

[OrtonHearsaWho]

I think it really shows the difference between having a defensive line with good players vs. a line with great players.

 

The Bills have a lot of good players but none that are great...Tampa has some players that have been great for a couple of seasons.  JPP looks like he did early with the Giants, Barrett is a beast, Suh may have lost a step (go ahead...you tell him that) but can still be a monster and Vea might be one of the strongest players in the league.  Put them on the field at the same time and it is trouble no matter who they face.

 

That leads me to another thought about having a bunch of good guys on the line.  I don't know what the snap count for this game was but it seemed like when the pocket collapsed (and it did often), all of those guys that I mentioned were on the field at the same time.

 

Clearly McDermott values depth and likes to rotate guys but is it better to have a fresh but average group or a less than fresh great group?

 

That oversimplifies it and I know it isn't easy to just go out and find a great pass rusher but I really think it stinks that we haven't been able to pair another great end with Jerry for a few years.  He hasn't had the big sack numbers but he is always near the top of the league at pass rush efficiency.  If another comparable player could be on the field with him (even now...he still had a pretty good year) I think the defense looks a lot different.

[Norcalbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

While the Bills do need improvements in the Front 7, I don’t think they should totally deviate from getting Allen better weapons, and trying to improve the offensive line.

 

This team could use a real TE, RB, an upgrade at OG, and another starting WR.

 

So Beane is going to have to be a hawk in FA and Draft.

Honestly this is what beane and mcd thought they were getting this 2020 season, weapons for josh, and spend a fortune on the D line. Have an elite D and josh only needs to manage and score a few times. Instead it went opposite. On the bright side, I dont really think they can get worse, and look where we got, and star will be back. I hope that an elite LB falls to us at 30, if not go weapon for josh.

[TheBeaneBandit]

8 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

If we find a way to afford Yannick then beane is a wizard

He's not that good.

Remember, the KC B team Oline totally stonewalled our Dline.....this game was a huge measuring stick wake up call.

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

After watching David shut down Kelce tonight i think Milano's agent just lost a tone of leverage,  i have no problem seeing him walk.  Both LB'S from Tampa Bay including David are free agents.  We need more play makers in the front 7 and a real RB.  Fournette is also a free agent,

I would take David over Milano in a heartbeat. Even if it costs more. We need to Immediately jettison a whole lot of DL. We saw tonight what a real front 7 looks like.

[Norcalbillsfan]

9 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

He's not that good.

Remember, the KC B team Oline totally stonewalled our Dline.....this game was a huge measuring stick wake up call.

Completely agree, it's kind of a good thing it's not more known in the nfl that we spent the most on our D line in the league and its one of the worst, pretty embarrassing. So many teams become laughing stock because they spend the most on qbs and wrs and it fails, mean while the bills are flying under the radar with a complete money pit at D line.

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, Niagara Dude said:

Bills cannot be afraid of signing guys who get cut,  Fournette got cut and we went with Moss and Singletary.  Singletary has no business  being a starting RB,  KC used the same defence tonight that they used against us.  The difference is Brady could hand off to Jones & Fournette

The difference is the Bills settled for field goals when being aggressive got them to the championship game.  The offense moved the ball well enough between the 20’s.  Even without a running game.  You want a running bc game we need better offensive line play.   No RB is going to magically run consistently behind the line as it’s constructed.  

[purple haze]

19 minutes ago, TheBeaneBandit said:

He's not that good.

Remember, the KC B team Oline totally stonewalled our Dline.....this game was a huge measuring stick wake up call.

Not totally.  The Bills got to Mahomes a few times and couldn’t finish the play.  They let him escape. The Chiefs were also playing with two back-up offensive linemen tonight.   That said, they need Epenesa or someone to step up across from Hughes.  Star coming back will keep Oliver in proper position.  That will help.