Bills sign Brandon Beane to contract extension!!!

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I'll chime in, because I was going to write something similar.   

 

I don't study posters, so I don't presume to have a full take on their personalities or whatever.  I don't remember what most posters have said from week to week.  However, after a while, when I get the sense that a poster regularly posts knee-jerk negative, I put them on my ignore list.  I've never ignored Bado, although I will admit that the thought has crossed my mind a few times.  

 

Why don't I ignore him?   Because as you said, "He is here to talk about the Buffalo Bills which are his passion. While doing so, he bestows knowledge, insights,  history, and well thought opinions about football which are often not that easy to obtain."   I think he's too negative, and he has an edge to what he says, but the fact remains that although I often don't agree with him, he knows what he's talking about.   I often choose not to respond to him, because things often turn into a tussle rather than just a conversation, but that's okay.  All of that is okay, because he knows what he's talking about and he can justify his opinions.  

This is all on point from my perspective.  Where I run into a problem with him is his inability to admit that his take wasn’t the best.  He’s literally “always right”.  It’s not just a difference of opinion, it’s he’s right and everyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. 
 

In hindsight, was letting Mike Gillislee go to the pats for a 5th rd pick the right move @BADOLBILZ?

Now watch how he manipulates the question.  Did we screw up by not tendering him higher?  A situation where we wouldn’t have Matt Milano and instead have Mike Gillislee.  A RB, dime a dozen position, that had some the best advanced stats in the history of football......while also being out of the league less than 2 years later after averaging 3.7 and 2.7 ypc.

 

I liked Gillislee, a lot.  Was sad to see him go, but I thought getting a 5th for him was a fair return.  Turned out to be spot on.  

 

 

[Doc]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The Bills are already up tight against the cap in 2021 even before Allen hits the $25M-$30M salary cap figure in 2022 though.

 

Williams, Feliciano and Milano are UFA's this winter..........Diggs is going to want a new deal very soon.........Beasley and Brown are entering walk years.........Edmunds option for 2022 will be over $10M if they don't extend him before that.    

 

Beane has his work cut out for him.

 

There's talk of the cap going up $10-15M.  I'd put good money on it happening because a) there will be a lot of teams forced to make cuts they won't want to make and b) the vaccines are coming meaning fans should be back in attendance, maybe as soon as next pre-season.  We'll know about it well in advance of FA.

 

If it doesn't happen, I mentioned in another thread about cuts the Bills can make without significantly depleting the talent, so as to keep Williams and Feliciano, who are the priorities since they protect Josh.  As for Milano, I think they let him walk if his contract demands are high.  And a lower cap helps keep re-signing salaries lower.

 

Diggs just had his contract redone in August so he won't be seeing a new one for at least another season.  Beasley has 2 years left at around $7.5M/year and is having a career year.  Brown is a possible cut since he would save $8.15M, but they need a speed guy to replace him.  Hopefully they approach him about a pay cut.  Edmunds is still cheap next year. 

 

Again it's 2022 that will be the issue.  But a lot of GMs with expensive QBs will have their work cut out for them.  And I suspect Beane will perform his 2nd greatest feat (after drafting Josh) as GM of the Bills: convincing Josh that taking a below-market deal will be in the best interest of everyone.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Doc

[C.Biscuit97]

Never got the idea of rushing his extension like he was going to leave or something. I wanted to see a team that was a legit contender and see the development of Allen.  Well, they killed it this year and it’s a well deserved extension. Props to Beane.

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, QLBillsFan said:

He sets up his FA contracts up for easy exist by the Bills. He’s fully aware of who on the current roster is due contracts and who they should keep. But he’s got about 30M availability if they release some non productive contracts that others have noted. Pretty smart guy, fairly confident he’s got a plan. Certainly agree that he’s got his work cut out for him. He built this roster wisely he’s not gonna tear it down he will adjust. 

And it's the same problem all GMs, at least GMs of good teams, have.   Good teams are always making decisions that result in some good players leaving their team.  How do you think Hyde and Poyer ended up in Buffalo?   Precisely because their former teams were looking at the cap, the contracts of their players, and the needs of the team.  They decided that they could make their team better by letting the guy go and getting a couple of cheaper, younger players in their place than they could by keeping the guy.   Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't.  

 

Beane's actually talked about this.   He and McDermott have said they want to keep all their good players.   They wanted to keep Philips and Lawson.  The realities of running a football team are that you can't afford to keep all the guys you want to keep, because then you won't have enough money left over to fill the rest of the positions.  So you make decisions.  They aren't easy decisions, and you don't make them all correctly.  Coach and GM talk about it.  I'm sure McDermott told Beane whether he thought he could survive the loss of Philips and Lawson.  I'm sure he's telling Beane whether keeping Milano is mandatory or just nice if you can find a way to do it.  That's all part of the job they have to do.  

 

Beane absolutely has a plan, and the plan changes weekly.  The plan changed when the doctors told Eric Wood he had to retire.  The plan changes when the Eagles call and ask if you're interested in LeSean McCoy.  (Yes, I know those weren't Beane calls.)  The plan changeswhen you can get a Diggs.  The point is it's not just about what talent you bring in; it's necessarily also about what talent you let go.   Sometimes you have to let talent go that you'd like to keep.  And you don't always get it right. 

[Mr. K]

Damn i want a Process #100% jersey

[Solomon Grundy]

Mr. Beane, I hope you are paying attention to Jaret!!

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, SWATeam said:

Wow, what a gem this thread has turned into!

 

How I wish to cultivate a football intelligence even approaching @BADOLBILZ

 

Lets recap some of the G.O.A.T's greatest hits-

 

Of course we have to start with that incredible Shady McCoy take.  The call that Shady will be doing radio by 2016, that you somehow have claimed victory on, is definitely my favorite.  Buffalo Barbarian has trade Mario for Skelton, this one is your Picasso. 

 

A close second has to be McDermott being Jauron 2.0.  We can tie that in with the huge mistake not to hire an offensive minded coach, like Anthony Lynn, because that is how you win in today's NFL!

 

And lets not forget the HUGE mistake letting the Patriots poach Mike Gilllisee and his 5.7 yards per carry!  😂 😂😂

 

Definitely the G.O.A.T of something!  We would all do well to develop some of that self confidence, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.  

 

 

Congrats, Beane! 

 

 

 

 

I know you remain a Whaley/Rex defender but as I said at the time.......unnecessarily extending McCoy into 2018 and 2019 was dumb.   His Eagles contract ran thru 2017.......and that's where ANY of his usefulness as regular NFL RB ended.   He was SHOT by 2018.  I know at the time you said he was the "Tom Brady of running backs" who could play great into his late 30's.......that take was hilarious.😆

 

And no I never declared that McDermott was going to be Jauron 2.0.    

 

In the summer of 2017 when you and others were vehemently insisting that McBeane were trying to tank and get a very high draft pick.....I said no way.........their intention was to Jauron-ball the team into contention.   There was no way they were going thru all that culture building to totally undermine their message by tanking.   And Jauron-ball was exactly what they played.   Protect the ball, play a defensive style to prevent big plays and shorten games and hope that your opponent made more mistakes than you.    It worked out.......particularly in road games at Carolina, Atlanta and KC where QB's made late mistakes to secure Bills upset victories.   Dick Jauron went 13-3 with that style once.    It can work sometimes but it also puts you in position to GET BEAT as often as anything so that's why DJ was always around .500.      

 

I did say that I thought they should have tendered Gillislee a $2.3M one year contract.   He lead the NFL in ypc and short yardage conversions in 2016.  That was the extent of it.

 

You thought the Bills rush offense would still be just as effective with Mike Tolbert and Dennison as they were in 2016..........you couldn't have been much more wrong.   They were terrible.  Dennison could have tried to keep the same system in place or just run more inside zone at least............he did not.........he got fired immediately after a playoff season with years left on his contract.       

[Buddo]

One of the things I like most about Beane (and McDermott), is that they tend to both learn from their mistakes, and also look to put them right asap.

 

They have by no means been perfect, yet much like the team, they are progressing at a decent clip.

 

It's easy to forget that neither of them had truly been in their respective positions before, Beane as GM (the temporary deal at Carolina doesn't really count, in all honesty), and McDermott as HC.

 

There's a general assumption, that in building a competitive team, you need at least the following to be able to get it somewhere - QB, LT, CB. That is admittedly a very short list, but I would argue that the other 'essentials' are going to be scheme specific, dependent on style of defense.

 

Allen won't be going anywhere in a hurry. When they get him inked will be a cap and timing issue. Dawkins and White are already re-signed. Otherwise known as your building blocks for a team are in place, and will not be going anywhere soon.

 

Diggs is also signed through 2023.

 

The FO are going to have to get creative this off-season, if they want to bring back some of the guys I think they should - especially Feliciano and Williams. Based off of Beane's PC, I think they will be trying to do just that. One of the last things Beane talked about, was trying to make sure that Allen had the necessary toolsaround him to succeed - which is why he went and got Diggs. I think he will see keeping that O-Line intact, as a priority.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

There's talk of the cap going up $10-15M.  I'd put good money on it happening because a) there will be a lot of teams forced to make cuts they won't want to make and b) the vaccines are coming meaning fans should be back in attendance, maybe as soon as next pre-season.  We'll know about it well in advance of FA.

 

If it doesn't happen, I mentioned in another thread about cuts the Bills can make without significantly depleting the talent, so as to keep Williams and Feliciano, who are the priorities since they protect Josh.  As for Milano, I think they let him walk if his contract demands are high.  And a lower cap helps keep re-signing salaries lower.

 

Diggs just had his contract redone in August so he won't be seeing a new one for at least another season.  Beasley has 2 years left at around $7.5M/year and is having a career year.  Brown is a possible cut since he would save $8.15M, but they need a speed guy to replace him.  Hopefully they approach him about a pay cut.  Edmunds is still cheap next year. 

 

Again it's 2022 that will be the issue.  But a lot of GMs with expensive QBs will have their work cut out for them.  And I suspect Beane will perform his 2nd greatest feat as GM of the Biils (after drafting Josh): convincing Josh that taking a below-market deal will be in the best interest of everyone.

 

Having $30M in cap space isn't much.........so getting $10M-$15M wiggle room isn't much, Doc.

 

And yes, it's a big issue in 2022.........but in 2021 they will no longer have the options they had in the past two offseasons with $80M in cap space..........things like letting two $10M players go at a position and replacing them with three $8M players...........they are actually going to have to start bringing up depth players to replace proven guys like Milano and Williams and finding some diamonds.   Their OL has basically 5 veteran free agent level paid players........their 3 man WR corp are all big dollars........and their starting secondary are all $6M plus players.   That kind of excess is not sustainable.    They aren't even paying the QB yet and they are up against it so as @Coach Tuesday said........they are going to have to get more efficient. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by BADOLBILZ

[Nihilarian]

5 hours ago, SWATeam said:

Or how about the HUGE mistake of hiring the HC before the GM!  That will never work!  😂 😂

 

The thing is, no one cares if you get things wrong.  We all do.  It's the ridiculous clinging to getting everything right, and then claiming superiority that rubs people the wrong way. 

 

We get it.  It's been a bull market for questioning the Bills organization for 20+ years.  Congratulations on riding that wave @BADOLBILZ.  But it looks like you might be holding that short position a bit too long.

I used to point out every misdeed by Jauron...who never got his Tampa two defense right by never finding the players to run it. Not that he didn't try...hello Aaron Maybin...#11 overall.  My complaining endlessly about the OCs and O lines. Turk Schonert, Alex Van pelt to Nate Hackett with his run play calls right up the middle. 

 

I pointed out endless Buddy Nix's / Chan Gailey gaffes / miss steps. Gaileys choices for DC's in George Edwards, Dave Wannstedt. Trading away Marshawn and drafting a "waterbug"...when the team was desperate for a LT. (isn't Jason Peters still playing 12 years later?) trading up for TJ Graham. The Whaley pick for QB in EJ.

 

Other posters used to comment on my posting and my complaining about what the FO is always doing wrong. Mostly what I read here was that the current roster for whatever year was the best we've had in the longest time. From HC's like Jauron, Gailey, Marrone, Ryan. From GM's like Marv Levy, Russ Brandon, Buddy Nix, Doug Whaley.  Great drafts, great rosters, great players. Yeah, sure. 

 

I think I received the most grief from other posters about my calling out Rex Ryan after his second game as Bills HC. This after Buffalo dominating the Colts and Andrew Luck with a relentless pass rush in his first game, week one 2015. The very next week the defensive game plan against NE was all wrong and Brady ripped him a new one for it. 38 of 59 for 466 yards, 3 TDs. Instead of allowing the best defensive line in the league do their thing and...you know...rush the passer. He asked them to hold their position and at times drop into pass coverage so the Bills LBers could make plays.

 

Those awesome all pro Bills LBers in Nigel Bradham, Manny Lawson, Preston Brown and Jerry Hughes (who had just arrived in Buffalo because the Colts GM called Whaley as he didn't like Polian's last first round choice in Hughes and wanted him gone. Lucky us. 

 

Anyway, with every post that I made pointing out what Rex Ryan had done wrong... all I got back was how out of touch I was... and Ryan will get the team winning very soon.

Sure, as with all the boneheaded choices for head coaches the last two decades or so. 

 

 

I'm not complaining anymore, at least not about the HC/FO. The offensive line, yes. Still not good enough for me and might never be as I want the #1 unit in the league or darn close to it. (I'll continue to complain, except about #76).

 

Guys, remember!  This regime made the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor at QB in 2017!! Then, this GM got a 3rd round pick for him in trading him away.  My lord, that's some serious awesomeness right there!

 

The Buffalo Bills have FINALLY found a decent HC / GM / QB and some Bills fans simply refuse to enjoy the winning. Week 14, currently 9-3 and in the hunt for a division title since 1995!  I'm ecstatic and enjoying the ride...as with most Bills fans. A great time to be a Buffalo Bill fan!

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

This is all on point from my perspective.  Where I run into a problem with him is his inability to admit that his take wasn’t the best.  He’s literally “always right”.  It’s not just a difference of opinion, it’s he’s right and everyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. 
 

In hindsight, was letting Mike Gillislee go to the pats for a 5th rd pick the right move @BADOLBILZ?

Now watch how he manipulates the question.  Did we screw up by not tendering him higher?  A situation where we wouldn’t have Matt Milano and instead have Mike Gillislee.  A RB, dime a dozen position, that had some the best advanced stats in the history of football......while also being out of the league less than 2 years later after averaging 3.7 and 2.7 ypc.

 

I liked Gillislee, a lot.  Was sad to see him go, but I thought getting a 5th for him was a fair return.  Turned out to be spot on.  

 

 

 

Gillislee didn't pan out with NE but the difference between he and Tolbert's pay was only around $1M.   Tolbert and the Bills offense were a mess.  Gillislee didn't regain his form in NE........but he did drop the dagger TD into the Bills in the 2017 game in NE where the Bills had jumped out to an early lead.    I know.......too emotionally disturbing for most of you to remember.

 

As for the draft pick........Milano is an excellent player so kudos to Whaley I guess but I'm not sweating not being able to project that Milano would be there and a good off-ball LB 140 picks into the draft.😆    Trading pick #91 in that draft to move up for Zay Jones was foolish though.    I was high on Trey Hendrickson as a developmental DE with that pick in round 3 and sure enough he came off the board shortly after that and the Bills weren't in position to get him.    I am sure you don't know who Hendrickson is but he is one of the leagues very best pass rushers.  Would have killed it in the Bills system.  But hey they did also get "Nate Favre" out of that trade as well.

[NewEra]

52 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I know you remain a Whaley/Rex defender but as I said at the time.......unnecessarily extending McCoy into 2018 and 2019 was dumb.   His Eagles contract ran thru 2017.......and that's where ANY of his usefulness as regular NFL RB ended.   He was SHOT by 2018.  I know at the time you said he was the "Tom Brady of running backs" who could play great into his late 30's.......that take was hilarious.😆

 

And no I never declared that McDermott was going to be Jauron 2.0.    

 

In the summer of 2017 when you and others were vehemently insisting that McBeane were trying to tank and get a very high draft pick.....I said no way.........their intention was to Jauron-ball the team into contention.   There was no way they were going thru all that culture building to totally undermine their message by tanking.   And Jauron-ball was exactly what they played.   Protect the ball, play a defensive style to prevent big plays and shorten games and hope that your opponent made more mistakes than you.    It worked out.......particularly in road games at Carolina, Atlanta and KC where QB's made late mistakes to secure Bills upset victories.   Dick Jauron went 13-3 with that style once.    It can work sometimes but it also puts you in position to GET BEAT as often as anything so that's why DJ was always around .500.      

 

I did say that I thought they should have tendered Gillislee a $2.3M one year contract.   He lead the NFL in ypc and short yardage conversions in 2016.  That was the extent of it.

 

You thought the Bills rush offense would still be just as effective with Mike Tolbert and Dennison as they were in 2016..........you couldn't have been much more wrong.   They were terrible.  Dennison could have tried to keep the same system in place or just run more inside zone at least............he did not.........he got fired immediately after a playoff season with years left on his contract.       

That was the extent of it.  
 

you 

 

 

 

 

never

 

 

 

 

disappoint.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That was the extent of it.  
 

 

 

And you were one of the people rooting for the Bills to tank in the summer of 2017 too.   

 

They had one of the oldest rosters in the NFL in 2017............if they had tanked it would have undermined "the process".

 

Tanking is for teams with a coaching staff on the way OUT...........

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Gillislee didn't pan out with NE but the difference between he and Tolbert's pay was only around $1M.   Tolbert and the Bills offense were a mess.  Gillislee didn't regain his form in NE........but he did drop the dagger TD into the Bills in the 2017 game in NE where the Bills had jumped out to an early lead.    I know.......too emotionally disturbing for most of you to remember.

 

As for the draft pick........Milano is an excellent player so kudos to Whaley I guess but I'm not sweating not being able to project that Milano would be there and a good off-ball LB 140 picks into the draft.😆    Trading pick #91 in that draft to move up for Zay Jones was foolish though.    I was high on Trey Hendrickson as a developmental DE with that pick in round 3 and sure enough he came off the board shortly after that and the Bills weren't in position to get him.    I am sure you don't know who Hendrickson is but he is one of the leagues very best pass rushers.  Would have killed it in the Bills system.  But hey they did also get "Nate Favre" out of that trade as well.

Ok, so you were right about Gillislee?  We screwed up by letting him go and we are worse off because of it?  Our franchise would be in better shape if we had signed Gillislee?  Got it.  Now that you admitted that you were wrong.......oh wait.  Never disappoint.  

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Gillislee didn't pan out with NE but the difference between he and Tolbert's pay was only around $1M.   Tolbert and the Bills offense were a mess.  Gillislee didn't regain his form in NE........but he did drop the dagger TD into the Bills in the 2017 game in NE where the Bills had jumped out to an early lead.    I know.......too emotionally disturbing for most of you to remember.

 

As for the draft pick........Milano is an excellent player so kudos to Whaley I guess but I'm not sweating not being able to project that Milano would be there and a good off-ball LB 140 picks into the draft.😆    Trading pick #91 in that draft to move up for Zay Jones was foolish though.    I was high on Trey Hendrickson as a developmental DE with that pick in round 3 and sure enough he came off the board shortly after that and the Bills weren't in position to get him.    I am sure you don't know who Hendrickson is but he is one of the leagues very best pass rushers.  Would have killed it in the Bills system.  But hey they did also get "Nate Favre" out of that trade as well.

Your insults are laughable.  Yes, I know who Trey Hendrickson is.  I knew who he was in college.  I didn’t scout him and I didn’t have a strong opinion on him......tell me again.....why are you bringing up Trey Hendrickson?  So you can talk smack about the trade up for Zay Jones while patting yourself on the back for scouting a DE?  What does he have to do with the Bills?  He has nothing to do with this discussion.  He is relevant here......only in your imagination.  You only brought him up so you can try and demean me while putting yourself on a pedestal.  Congrats on being right about Hendrickson.  Want a cookie?  Way to go off tangent so you can brag about something that nobody gives a rats *** about.  Get over yourself. It’s embarrassing 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And you were one of the people rooting for the Bills to tank in the summer of 2017 too.   

 

They had one of the oldest rosters in the NFL in 2017............if they had tanked it would have undermined "the process".

 

Tanking is for teams with a coaching staff on the way OUT...........

Yep.....I wanted a QB.  
 

guess what......I was wrong.

 

try it some time.

 

you might gain some respect around here.  Respect not based on what you know.  Respect based on who you are.

 

 

[JGMcD2]

39 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Your insults are laughable.  Yes, I know who Trey Hendrickson is.  I knew who he was in college.  I didn’t scout him and I didn’t have a strong opinion on him......tell me again.....why are you bringing up Trey Hendrickson?  So you can talk smack about the trade up for Zay Jones while patting yourself on the back for scouting a DE?  What does he have to do with the Bills?  He has nothing to do with this discussion.  He is relevant here......only in your imagination.  You only brought him up so you can try and demean me while putting yourself on a pedestal.  Congrats on being right about Hendrickson.  Want a cookie?  Way to go off tangent so you can brag about something that nobody gives a rats *** about.  Get over yourself. It’s embarrassing 

Saint BADOLBILZ! 
 

 I really want to know if you have such a stellar record on team building, talent evaluation, player valuation and trade value why haven’t you applied to work in a front office? 
 

I’m being serious, if you’re as good as you tell everyone you are @BADOLBILZ why are you wasting your talents on TBD? 

Edited December 13, 2020 by JGMcD2

[BADOLBILZ]

42 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Ok, so you were right about Gillislee?  We screwed up by letting him go and we are worse off because of it?  Our franchise would be in better shape if we had signed Gillislee?  Got it.  Now that you admitted that you were wrong.......oh wait.  Never disappoint.  

 

 

I didn't advocate a long term contract or a even starting job for Mike Gillislee.

 

It's laughable that folks like you try to cherry pick the tiny fact that I was in favor of placing an earlier round, cheap,  ONE YEAR tender on a very productive RB.

 

We can't unwatch the 2017-2018 Bills offenses.........putrid............for stretches some of the worst offense in the history of the franchise. 

 

Fortunately 4 seasons later we are finally producing on that side of the ball again..........and now a lot of the pro-tankers like you who loved the late game drama of offensively anemic Jauron Ball........are suddenly appreciative of good offensive football. 😆

 

    

[NewEra]

24 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Saint BADOLBILZ! 
 

 I really want to know if you have such a stellar record on team building, talent evaluation, player valuation and trade value why haven’t you applied to work in a front office? 
 

I’m being serious, if you’re as good as you tell everyone you are @BADOLBILZ why are you wasting your talents on TBD? 

He was in the front office in the early 2000s.  He goes by the name of Tom Donahoe.  He knows his stuff, but his ego got in the way.  

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Saint BADOLBILZ! 
 

 I really want to know if you have such a stellar record on team building, talent evaluation, player valuation and trade value why haven’t you applied to work in a front office? 
 

I’m being serious, if you’re as good as you tell everyone you are @BADOLBILZ why are you wasting your talents on TBD? 

 

 

The low pay was and still is a major deterrent to anyone interested in getting into NFL scouting.

 

 

[JGMcD2]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The low pay was and still is a major deterrent to anyone interested in getting into NFL scouting.

 

 

No, not scouting. 
 

You’re the total package. You do it all... cap management, player valuation, pro scouting, college scouting and more. You wouldn’t be a scout, you’d be a front office executive with the near perfect track record you claim to have. 

 

You even said it here when asked about if you’re ever wrong: 

 

“Sure but very rarely on TSW.

The amount of hotly contested takes of import that I've been spot on about on this site over the past 22 years even surprises me.

I'm the GOAT in that regard here and it's not even close.” 
 

If you’re as good as you say you are, you wouldn’t have to worry about low pay. Teams would hand you a blank check. 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Your insults are laughable.  Yes, I know who Trey Hendrickson is.  I knew who he was in college.  I didn’t scout him and I didn’t have a strong opinion on him......tell me again.....why are you bringing up Trey Hendrickson?  So you can talk smack about the trade up for Zay Jones while patting yourself on the back for scouting a DE?  What does he have to do with the Bills?  He has nothing to do with this discussion.  He is relevant here......only in your imagination.  You only brought him up so you can try and demean me while putting yourself on a pedestal.  Congrats on being right about Hendrickson.  Want a cookie?  Way to go off tangent so you can brag about something that nobody gives a rats *** about.  Get over yourself. It’s embarrassing 

Yep.....I wanted a QB.  
 

guess what......I was wrong.

 

try it some time.

 

you might gain some respect around here.  Respect not based on what you know.  Respect based on who you are.

 

 

 

 

1) Your insinuation is that without the Bills getting a 5th round pick for Gillislee they couldn't have had as much success in the draft.......my point is that they totally wasted two much earlier picks on Zay Jones.   A LOTTA things have to happen by the 5th round.    I mean, are you one of those revisionist "what were we thinking drafting Leif Larson with Tom Brady on the board!?" people?  

 

2) Yes you were wrong.   And you got mad and insulted me when you read my opinion.   The proper response to that isn't "guess what.......I was wrong".......it's "I apologize......I was wrong".    Honestly I laugh this stuff off and there really is no better response to false narratives/straw men/misremembered takes than laughing at it.   But if TSW had to donate a dollar to Oishei Children's Hospital for every time a person first made contact with me here to insult me personally for a football take in the past 22 years...........SDS would have a unit named after him.

[BillsVet]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Having $30M in cap space isn't much.........so getting $10M-$15M wiggle room isn't much, Doc.

 

And yes, it's a big issue in 2022.........but in 2021 they will no longer have the options they had in the past two offseasons with $80M in cap space..........things like letting two $10M players go at a position and replacing them with three $8M players...........they are actually going to have to start bringing up depth players to replace proven guys like Milano and Williams and finding some diamonds.   Their OL has basically 5 veteran free agent level paid players........their 3 man WR corp are all big dollars........and their starting secondary are all $6M plus players.   That kind of excess is not sustainable.    They aren't even paying the QB yet and they are up against it so as @Coach Tuesday said........they are going to have to get more efficient. 

 

Not 1 GM in Buffalo during the cap era was successful at maintaining a successfully rebuilt roster.  Because of course, no GM ever rebuilt.  

 

As tough as the former is, the latter may be more difficult.  And that efficiency is gonna mean some players revered on this board will not be re-signed.  

 

Gonna be interesting to see how McBeane are thought of when someone doesn't get that next contract and get replaced by (as the top franchises do) by a cheaper draft picks.

 

It's the way of the NFL and soon it'll hopefully produce on-field results with cap flexibility.  

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Not 1 GM in Buffalo during the cap era was successful at maintaining a successfully rebuilt roster.  Because of course, no GM ever rebuilt.  

 

As tough as the former is, the latter may be more difficult.  And that efficiency is gonna mean some players revered on this board will not be re-signed.  

 

Gonna be interesting to see how McBeane are thought of when someone doesn't get that next contract and get replaced by (as the top franchises do) by a cheaper draft picks.

 

It's the way of the NFL and soon it'll hopefully produce on-field results with cap flexibility.  

 

 

How they BUILT this team is not a method that they will have the ability to sustain.     Beane has spent and spent and spent in free agency the past 3 offseasons and it's gotten them here but now they gotta' make like the Steelers and Patriots have done for a decade.    Find players to fill roles cheaply.    The Steelers do it by drafting and developing at a high level.   The Patriots have done it despite poor early drafting by having unusual success from late picks, UDFA's and cheap free agents.

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) Your insinuation is that without the Bills getting a 5th round pick for Gillislee they couldn't have had as much success in the draft.......my point is that they totally wasted two much earlier picks on Zay Jones.   A LOTTA things have to happen by the 5th round.    I mean, are you one of those revisionist "what were we thinking drafting Leif Larson with Tom Brady on the board!?" people?  

 

2) Yes you were wrong.   And you got mad and insulted me when you read my opinion.   The proper response to that isn't "guess what.......I was wrong".......it's "I apologize......I was wrong".    Honestly I laugh this stuff off and there really is no better response to false narratives/straw men/misremembered takes than laughing at it.   But if TSW had to donate a dollar to Oishei Children's Hospital for every time a person first made contact with me here to insult me personally for a football take in the past 22 years...........SDS would have a unit named after him.

My insinuation is that letting Gillislee go for a 5th rd pick was a good move for the franchise.  You can make up w/e other nonsense you want.

 

I was wrong....and it wasn’t a big deal.  Why? Because being wrong is part of life and I’m ok with being wrong.  I don’t claim to be all knowing.  I live and I learn.  
 

is it an insult to say that you can’t admit when you’re wrong?  You might be insulted by the notion.  Insulted by the truth.  
 

There’s a reason people view you in a certain light. In you’re opinion, it’s their fault. Their fault because they are soft and sensitive.  In reality, it’s yours.  And we all know why.  
 

continue on

[Victory Formation]

32 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Not 1 GM in Buffalo during the cap era was successful at maintaining a successfully rebuilt roster.  Because of course, no GM ever rebuilt.  

 

As tough as the former is, the latter may be more difficult.  And that efficiency is gonna mean some players revered on this board will not be re-signed.  

 

Gonna be interesting to see how McBeane are thought of when someone doesn't get that next contract and get replaced by (as the top franchises do) by a cheaper draft picks.

 

It's the way of the NFL and soon it'll hopefully produce on-field results with cap flexibility.  

Which is exactly why someone like Milano should not be re-signed.. Cost way too much, often injured and McD drafts defense well..

[Warcodered]

 

[Doc]

20 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Having $30M in cap space isn't much.........so getting $10M-$15M wiggle room isn't much, Doc.

 

And yes, it's a big issue in 2022.........but in 2021 they will no longer have the options they had in the past two offseasons with $80M in cap space..........things like letting two $10M players go at a position and replacing them with three $8M players...........they are actually going to have to start bringing up depth players to replace proven guys like Milano and Williams and finding some diamonds.   Their OL has basically 5 veteran free agent level paid players........their 3 man WR corp are all big dollars........and their starting secondary are all $6M plus players.   That kind of excess is not sustainable.    They aren't even paying the QB yet and they are up against it so as @Coach Tuesday said........they are going to have to get more efficient. 

 

Well the good thing is that the Bills don't have the needs in 2021 that they've have the past 2 off-seasons.  They also have quite a few contracts they can off-load without too much loss of talent.  As an extreme example, the Bills could release Butler, Jefferson, Addison, Matakevich, Brown and Morse and save $37.45M on the cap.  They can pick and choose who from among that list can be cut, asked to take a pay cut or extended.  The biggest question is do you keep Milano, and if not, what do you do to replace him?

 

13 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Which is exactly why someone like Milano should not be re-signed.. Cost way too much, often injured and McD drafts defense well..

 

Yup.  GMs have to make decisions on who to keep and who to let go all the time.  Especially if they have a huge money QB.  It's not limited to just Beane. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Doc

[Punching Bag]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

He was in the front office in the early 2000s.  He goes by the name of Tom Donahoe.  He knows his stuff, but his ego got in the way.  

 

He does look good wearing a paper bag and it is likely as close as he gets to being Tom Donahoe in terms of knowledge and ego.

[NewEra]

5 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I didn't advocate a long term contract or a even starting job for Mike Gillislee.

 

It's laughable that folks like you try to cherry pick the tiny fact that I was in favor of placing an earlier round, cheap,  ONE YEAR tender on a very productive RB.

 

We can't unwatch the 2017-2018 Bills offenses.........putrid............for stretches some of the worst offense in the history of the franchise. 

 

Fortunately 4 seasons later we are finally producing on that side of the ball again..........and now a lot of the pro-tankers like you who loved the late game drama of offensively anemic Jauron Ball........are suddenly appreciative of good offensive football. 😆

 

    

You harped on it quite a bit.  If you didn’t, I wouldn’t bring it up.  I looked for the archive but couldn’t find it on my phone.  
 

anyways,  I’ll buy you a beer at the super bowl if we’re allowed in.  Go Bills!

2 hours ago, Victory Formation said:

Which is exactly why someone like Milano should not be re-signed.. Cost way too much, often injured and McD drafts defense well..

Agreed.  Not at 13+ mill.  I’d take him at 8 though.  

[BillsVet]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

How they BUILT this team is not a method that they will have the ability to sustain.     Beane has spent and spent and spent in free agency the past 3 offseasons and it's gotten them here but now they gotta' make like the Steelers and Patriots have done for a decade.    Find players to fill roles cheaply.    The Steelers do it by drafting and developing at a high level.   The Patriots have done it despite poor early drafting by having unusual success from late picks, UDFA's and cheap free agents.

 

Right....and it'll mean being efficient with picks in rounds 3-4 at the harder to find positions. RBs in the 3rd round aren't going to cut it anymore.  

 

UFA has bought Beane time to develop younger players behind the veterans.  Now the real work for that front office of "future GM" candidates begins.  

 

Whatever the method for remaining competitive, be it the NE or Pittsburgh way, the onus remains on the amateur scouting people.  

 

 

 

[Heitz]

If nothing else this thread proves that TBD is gonna TBD.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Heitz

[BADOLBILZ]

10 hours ago, NewEra said:

You harped on it quite a bit.  If you didn’t, I wouldn’t bring it up.  I looked for the archive but couldn’t find it on my phone.  
 

 

 

I harped on Gillislee being given a few hundred K higher tender the same way I have harped on being OK with extending Beane but thinking he needs to be more efficient.

 

It was basically all in one thread and a bunch of people mincing my words, creating false narratives and straw man arguments because they were outraged that I was being critical of a decision.

 

My logic was that I was thrilled that we had a backfield that averaged 5.5 yards per carry and that trying to turn McCoy back into a 250-300 carry back again was a bad idea.    And it was.   He ended up dropping a stunning 1.5 ypc in production to well below league average per carry.  A good bit of that was on Dennison and his system........but he also took a beating that season that proved to be the end of his usefulness as a semi-regular NFL RB.   It was a truly ugly offensive season.   

[BillsVet]

 

12 hours ago, Doc said:

Well the good thing is that the Bills don't have the needs in 2021 that they've have the past 2 off-seasons.  They also have quite a few contracts they can off-load without too much loss of talent.  As an extreme example, the Bills could release Butler, Jefferson, Addison, Matakevich, Brown and Morse and save $37.45M on the cap.  They can pick and choose who from among that list can be cut, asked to take a pay cut or extended.  The biggest question is do you keep Milano, and if not, what do you do to replace him?

 

Yup.  GMs have to make decisions on who to keep and who to let go all the time.  Especially if they have a huge money QB.  It's not limited to just Beane. 

 

Let's say you cut any of those players mentioned. Now tell us who's coming as their replacement?  McD gotta have his DL rotation and at last count it was 51M in 2020 without most of Star's contract.  OK.  Who replaces Brown at the Z?  Or a new center for Morse?  And don't say they'll find someone in the draft.  That looks awfully similar to the RW years where the draft was used to replace departed veterans and that never worked.  

 

Besides, the UFAs you've noted where all signed since 2019.  Without some strategic changes to roster building and personnel assessment, they'll keep going down the road of finding types that are a bridge to nowhere, i.e. there's no initial contract type player to step in.  

 

There aren't many perennial playoff teams, but the ones who do have an advantage on draft day/UDFA and/or can attract low cost talent in UFA.  Buffalo isn't there yet, but if they hope to be it'll be on the back of one of those other methods not signing veterans to market rate contracts.  

 

And if you keep trying that method, as @BADOLBILZ noted, it'll show up eventually in the cap balances because you don't cut your way out of that problem.

[NewEra]

53 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I harped on Gillislee being given a few hundred K higher tender the same way I have harped on being OK with extending Beane but thinking he needs to be more efficient.

 

It was basically all in one thread and a bunch of people mincing my words, creating false narratives and straw man arguments because they were outraged that I was being critical of a decision.

 

My logic was that I was thrilled that we had a backfield that averaged 5.5 yards per carry and that trying to turn McCoy back into a 250-300 carry back again was a bad idea.    And it was.   He ended up dropping a stunning 1.5 ypc in production to well below league average per carry.  A good bit of that was on Dennison and his system........but he also took a beating that season that proved to be the end of his usefulness as a semi-regular NFL RB.   It was a truly ugly offensive season.   

You were critical of the move.  If you were in charge, you would’ve sign Gillislee and not had Milano.  You lose.  Bad decision 

[Coach Tuesday]

38 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You were critical of the move.  If you were in charge, you would’ve sign Gillislee and not had Milano.  You lose.  Bad decision 

This thread seems to have become personal for you.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

Let's say you cut any of those players mentioned. Now tell us who's coming as their replacement?  McD gotta have his DL rotation and at last count it was 51M in 2020 without most of Star's contract.  OK.  Who replaces Brown at the Z?  Or a new center for Morse?  And don't say they'll find someone in the draft.  That looks awfully similar to the RW years where the draft was used to replace departed veterans and that never worked.  

 

Besides, the UFAs you've noted where all signed since 2019.  Without some strategic changes to roster building and personnel assessment, they'll keep going down the road of finding types that are a bridge to nowhere, i.e. there's no initial contract type player to step in.  

 

There aren't many perennial playoff teams, but the ones who do have an advantage on draft day/UDFA and/or can attract low cost talent in UFA.  Buffalo isn't there yet, but if they hope to be it'll be on the back of one of those other methods not signing veterans to market rate contracts.  

 

And if you keep trying that method, as @BADOLBILZ noted, it'll show up eventually in the cap balances because you don't cut your way out of that problem.

 

As I said, it was an extreme example to cut them all.  A more realistic approach is that with Star coming back, they RFA Zimmer and keep Jefferson and lower his $8M cap hit to about $6M or so and save $31.5M.  Matakevich is just a ST'er.  If they think he's worth it, keep him and lower the savings to $28M  I think last weekend's game showed that they can survive and thrive without John Brown.  And on the OL, if they keep Morse, they lower the savings to $23M.  If the cap goes up $15M, that's around $38M in cap room to re-sign Williams, Feliciano and even Milano.

 

16 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This thread seems to have become personal for you.

 

I can't speak to that, but it's the truth.  The pick they got for Gillislee, who flamed out right after being traded and wouldn't have changed the Bills' fortunes one iota, was turned into Milano.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Doc

[Victory Formation]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

As I said, it was an extreme example to cut them all.  A more realistic approach is that with Star coming back, they RFA Zimmer and keep Jefferson and lower his $8M cap hit to about $6M or so and save $31.5M.  Matakevich is just a ST'er.  If they think he's worth it, keep him and lower the savings to $28M  I think last weekend's game showed that they can survive and thrive without John Brown.  And on the OL, if they keep Morse, they lower the savings to $23M.  If the cap goes up $15M, that's around $38M in cap room to re-sign Williams, Feliciano and even Miano.

Thing with Brown is.. I know we need a pass rushing DE more than anything but if there is an elite WR prospect available when we pick, yeah Brown could be expendable.. Typically there’s some really darn good WR prospects available in the bottom of the first.. Same could be said for LB and C too! Morse could very well be gone, as could Milano..

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Thing with Brown is.. I know we need a pass rushing DE more than anything but if there is an elite WR prospect available when we pick, yeah Brown could be expendable.. Typically there’s some really darn good WR prospects available in the bottom of the first.. Same could be said for LB and C too! Morse could very well be gone, as could Milano..

 

There are a lot of ways to go.  But I don't think a WR within the first 3 rounds is a priority given Diggs, Beasley and Davis.  Take a speed merchant in the 4th or later.

[NewEra]

17 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

This thread seems to have become personal for you.

Just trying to see if he can man up admit being wrong. I don’t think I’ve seen it happen after almost 20 years.  Not that he hasn’t, but I can’t remember an instance.

 

He was wrong about Gillislee.  He’s had opportunity to admit being wrong, yet he refuses to.  Just changing the narrative, per usual.  “Straw man, blah blah blah, straw man”

 

same ****, different day

[Victory Formation]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

There are a lot of ways to go.  But I don't think a WR within the first 3 rounds is a priority given Diggs, Beasley and Davis.  Take a speed merchant in the 4th or later.

Most likely.. but you gotta play the hand you’re dealt.. I’m a firm believer in BPA.. Gimme a HOF player at a position that may not exactly be a need for this team over someone who is JAG.

 

TE, WR, C, G, DE, DT, LB, CB, S — Just get me the best player..