Ravens-Steelers now postponed to Wednesday 3:40 pm

[Process]

6 more today. Wow. 

 

They are obviously not playing Tuesday. 

 

 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

55 minutes ago, Process said:

6 more today. Wow. 

 

They are obviously not playing Tuesday. 

 

 

So exactly how many players, plus the two PS elevations, would that leave them to play? I know some of those guys are IRed or on the PS already. 

[chaccof]

Is there any scenario for the NFL where a game is simply canceled and not played?  If so what is the scenario?  

[wjag]

44 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

So exactly how many players, plus the two PS elevations, would that leave them to play? I know some of those guys are IRed or on the PS already. 

18 players means they can’t field a 53 man roster.  

[Bubba Gump]

22 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

They have already admitted that a coach did not follow protocol.  They admitted this was caused internally and disciplined the coach.  The internal spread was caused because they allowed 2 walkthroughs to try to get ready for the Thursday game.  A normal week and no one comes to the stadium Monday and limited on Tuesday and the spread would have been easier to control.  
 

They and the NFL recognize what caused this and now have to determine how to fix it and maintain the season.

 

 

 

 

 

 

These takes are just flat out terrible.  The change in date has nothing to do with Lamar and in reality if they had played last evening as they should Lamar’s results may have been delayed.  Moving the date back makes it more likely that more people test positive and miss the game.  
 

They need to allow 4-5 days from the exposures Monday and Tuesday to catch the people infected on site during the walk through.  That means that Sunday was going to be the first day where if everyone tests negative they could think about getting together.  That is why the Ravens have closed their facility until Monday.  They will meet remotely, but the players can not get together until Monday. 
 

This is exactly what the league needs to do in this situation and is exactly what was expected when the outbreak occurred.  The League is not suddenly Favoring the Ravens - most of these players including Lamar will still not be cleared by Tuesday to play and there is a chance even more people become positive.

 

 

 

Tell that to Denver. 

[Rochesterfan]

59 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

Tell that to Denver. 

Tell what to Denver?

 

The Denver situation is similar to our Knox and Norman situation.  They had a positive, identified contacts and are sitting them as contacts.  There is not rampant positives still coming from the team like the Ravens.

 

It has been consistent even if you don’t like it.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[whatdrought]

Just now, YoloinOhio said:

 

We’ve seen the procedures work consistently throughout the season with one exception. That exception was a team saying “***** the rules, we ain’t need em.” 
 

There’s no way this ain’t the same thing. Make em forfeit. 

[Justin C]

You can't even postpone it to the end of the season. If the Steelers have the 1 seed locked up, they have no incentive to play. 

 

The NFL really needed a full week off after Week 6 and this week to make up games. 

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, wjag said:

18 players means they can’t field a 53 man roster.  

 

Play iron man football if you cannot follow rules.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

I do not wish to think more kindly of the Ravens, but this story involving Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson and others made me smile.  Then cry.  Then smile.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30378901/what-nfl-mlb-learned-young-baltimore-ravens-superfan

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

So exactly how many players, plus the two PS elevations, would that leave them to play? I know some of those guys are IRed or on the PS already. 

 

They can elevate as many players from PS as they have regular roster players on covid-19 list.  So for example when we had Norman, Wallace, Marlowe, and Kroft out we got to elevate 4 players.

"The coronavirus has decimated Baltimore's roster to the point where the Ravens are left with two quarterbacks, six offensive linemen and three defensive linemen on their current active and practice squad rosters. Baltimore has 52 available players -- 38 on its 53-man roster and 14 on the practice squad."

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30408556/baltimore-ravens-add-six-more-reserve-covid-19-list-total-18

 

So currently they could elevate 8 players from the practice squad and go into game day with 46 players active.  They couldn't activate 48 because they don't have 8 offensive linemen to dress.

 

[4merper4mer]

4 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

Tell what to Denver?

 

The Denver situation is similar to our Knox and Norman situation.  They had a positive, identified contacts and are sitting them as contacts.  There is not rampant positives still coming from the team like the Ravens.

 

It has been consistent even if you don’t like it.

So you're saying the NFL's policies give Denver incentive to infect more guys so their game can move back and they can have a QB?

 

 

The facts are that the Ravens massively screwed up and are being accommodated while Denver had bad luck so screw them.  Classic.

Edited November 29, 2020 by 4merper4mer

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I do not wish to think more kindly of the Ravens, but this story involving Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson and others made me smile.  Then cry.  Then smile.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/30378901/what-nfl-mlb-learned-young-baltimore-ravens-superfan

 

 

 

Damn you for this.

 

I was blissfully ignorant, half-drunken, and then bam! Suddenly I'm reflecting upon mortality and perspective and humanizing others, and I've got something in my eyes. 

 

Jerk move, Hapless.

[Rochesterfan]

6 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

So you're saying the NFL's policies give Denver incentive to infect more guys so their game can move back and they can have a QB?

 

 

The facts are that the Ravens massively screwed up and are being accommodated while Denver had bad luck so screw them.  Classic.

 

No - I am saying the NFL has been consistent in their approach on this.  If you have a contained infection they are not moving a game.  If you have an un-contained spread going on - they have to move the game until such a point as they have the spread contained and then can play.

 

The protocol states they will not adjust games for competitive reasons - only medical reasons (meaning the spread is still active).  Then the NFL is going in and punishing those teams with big fines and loss of draft picks.

 

So if Denver had an incentive to infect more guys - how does it help?  If we move the NO/Denver game to Tuesday like the Steelers/Raven game - what impact does that have?   The QBs would still not be cleared and they do not have time to bring in new players per the protocol.  A move just puts more eyes on the game.
 

Why should Denver get games moved because of this - every other team has had to play through the exact situation Denver is facing.  The Bills did it with both the Knox instance and the Norman incident.  Every team has had limited spread and guys miss games and had to play and Denver is being treated exactly the same.

 

Three teams have had games moved because their is an unknown number of players actively infected within the team and they need a minimum 4-5 days of negatives to help ensure they have caught everyone.  The Titans, NE, and now the Ravens all had potential infections going on and that precluded the team from being able to do anything.  In the end for NE and the most likely for the Ravens - the games will be played with guys missing once they were sure about the spread being contained.  

The Titans were the first issue and they were definitely given a huge advantage because they completely moved their Pittsburgh game and then gave extra time on Bills week and that allowed some of their initial spread players to come back.  That was wrong, but they were trying to do things right - so I get it and the NFL wanted to make everything as Normal as possible.

 

Now if you think that means Denver should have gone out and tried to get more positive to get their game postponed - I submit that means they would of had to know a minimum of 4-5 days ahead of time - so they would of needed to start trying to spread the illness on Tuesday at the latest before they even knew Driscoll was positive.  They also then risk what the Titans and Ravens learned - it spreads easily and is hard to contain once started.  With an old coach with health issues - that suggestion could lead to serious repercussions both physically and then once the NFL gets involved - financially and potentially loss of draft picks could impact the team down the road.

Edited November 29, 2020 by Rochesterfan

[4merper4mer]

34 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

No - I am saying the NFL has been consistent in their approach on this.  If you have a contained infection they are not moving a game.  If you have an un-contained spread going on - they have to move the game until such a point as they have the spread contained and then can play.

 

The protocol states they will not adjust games for competitive reasons - only medical reasons (meaning the spread is still active).  Then the NFL is going in and punishing those teams with big fines and loss of draft picks.

 

So if Denver had an incentive to infect more guys - how does it help?  If we move the NO/Denver game to Tuesday like the Steelers/Raven game - what impact does that have?   The QBs would still not be cleared and they do not have time to bring in new players per the protocol.  A move just puts more eyes on the game.
 

Why should Denver get games moved because of this - every other team has had to play through the exact situation Denver is facing.  The Bills did it with both the Knox instance and the Norman incident.  Every team has had limited spread and guys miss games and had to play and Denver is being treated exactly the same.

 

Three teams have had games moved because their is an unknown number of players actively infected within the team and they need a minimum 4-5 days of negatives to help ensure they have caught everyone.  The Titans, NE, and now the Ravens all had potential infections going on and that precluded the team from being able to do anything.  In the end for NE and the most likely for the Ravens - the games will be played with guys missing once they were sure about the spread being contained.  

The Titans were the first issue and they were definitely given a huge advantage because they completely moved their Pittsburgh game and then gave extra time on Bills week and that allowed some of their initial spread players to come back.  That was wrong, but they were trying to do things right - so I get it and the NFL wanted to make everything as Normal as possible.

 

Now if you think that means Denver should have gone out and tried to get more positive to get their game postponed - I submit that means they would of had to know a minimum of 4-5 days ahead of time - so they would of needed to start trying to spread the illness on Tuesday at the latest before they even knew Driscoll was positive.  They also then risk what the Titans and Ravens learned - it spreads easily and is hard to contain once started.  With an old coach with health issues - that suggestion could lead to serious repercussions both physically and then once the NFL gets involved - financially and potentially loss of draft picks could impact the team down the road.

Lots of words, but the policy still favors teams who screw up.

[Rochesterfan]

6 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lots of words, but the policy still favors teams who screw up.

 

Few words to show you truly don’t understand - your loss.  
 

I will try to let other explain.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Rochesterfan

[Matt_In_NH]

13 hours ago, chaccof said:

Is there any scenario for the NFL where a game is simply canceled and not played?  If so what is the scenario?  

Not sure the nfl has said but You laid it out.  If it can’t be played it could get cancelled at this point.  Likely will go into a postponed state to see if other games go down the same road with a potential week 18.   If this ends up being the only one and it has no affect on final standings it could get cancelled.   If there are 5 games like this and it affects the standings then the week 18 thing happens.  

The league cares about revenues over “fairness”.  For those thinking the league treats the titans different than the ravens why would that be?   The nfl MVP vs a small market.  This is COVID in the year 2020.  Plans and protocols change all the time.  There is no conspiracy.  

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

Few words to show you truly don’t understand - your loss.  
 

I will try to let other explain.

 

 

 

 

League is going to make up crap as it goes along.

 

See 1000 other times it has done so over the years icluding the double secret probation warnings to Tenn and Bal who clearly broke rules everyone knew about.  Teams containing the outbreak and following rules play short handed, teams ignoring protocols get their opponents screwed and get some players back.  Seems legit.

 

-- Anyone other than Dan Graziano or another mouthpiece Nocember 29 2020

[Rochesterfan]

47 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

League is going to make up crap as it goes along.

 

See 1000 other times it has done so over the years icluding the double secret probation warnings to Tenn and Bal who clearly broke rules everyone knew about.  Teams containing the outbreak and following rules play short handed, teams ignoring protocols get their opponents screwed and get some players back.  Seems legit.

 

-- Anyone other than Dan Graziano or another mouthpiece Nocember 29 2020

 

So smart guy - what should the NFL of done?  
 

You are snarky about it being unfair - rather than just complain and call us Kool-Aid drinkers actually present some ideas.

 

I want to understand how you think the NFL should handle this and still be consistent with what they have been doing?

 

Good Luck!

[4merper4mer]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

So smart guy - what should the NFL of done?  
 

You are snarky about it being unfair - rather than just complain and call us Kool-Aid drinkers actually present some ideas.

 

I want to understand how you think the NFL should handle this and still be consistent with what they have been doing?

 

Good Luck!

The NFL stated they would harshly punish teams that broke protocol.  I think they should harshly punish teams that broke protocol.  

 

How's that, smart guy?   Don't forget to hit the passive aggressive Googly eye button on your way out.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

25 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

The NFL stated they would harshly punish teams that broke protocol.  I think they should harshly punish teams that broke protocol.  

 

How's that, smart guy?   Don't forget to hit the passive aggressive Googly eye button on your way out.

 

 

 

So no real answer - exactly what I would expect.

 

As to punishment- teams have been punished - the Ravens punishment will come, but that is outside of the discussion.

 

You complained the NFL was unfair - I provided evidence they were being consistent - where is your plan - just stating over and over that it is unfair does not make it so - show us - explain your side.

 

We are all waiting for your next avoidance.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[4merper4mer]

3 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

So no real answer - exactly what I would expect.

 

As to punishment- teams have been punished - the Ravens punishment will come, but that is outside of the discussion.

 

You complained the NFL was unfair - I provided evidence they were being consistent - where is your plan - just stating over and over that it is unfair does not make it so - show us - explain your side.

 

We are all waiting for your next avoidance.

How were the Titans punished?  Since you used a plural, what other teams have been punishedand how?  How will the Ravens be punished?

 

The NFL has been highly arbitrary.  If they were consistent as you contend, we would all already know the Ravens supposed upcoming punishment because it would have been prescribed ahead of time.  Instead it will be similar to the Pats taping the Bengals.  Double secret probation nonsense.  The Ravens punishment is only "outside of this discussion" because it makes your argument of the league being rule bound look completely absurd.  They are making things up as they go along.

 

The Broncos, who did not have coaches breaking rules, will be physically punished this afternoon.  Players may end up hurt as a result because they are blocking for a WR playing QB and that will certainly have them improvising.  Had the Broncos broken more rules there would be no such risk.  And it is still not certain if or when the Ravens will have to play.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Rochesterfan said:

So if Denver had an incentive to infect more guys - how does it help?  If we move the NO/Denver game to Tuesday like the Steelers/Raven game - what impact does that have?   The QBs would still not be cleared and they do not have time to bring in new players per the protocol.  A move just puts more eyes on the game.

 

I could be wrong, but I think the Denver game on Tuesday would allow them to get a QB back.

 

They were exposed Weds, they should be able to come off the list with negative tests on Monday.

 

[Rochesterfan]

1 minute ago, 4merper4mer said:

How were the Titans punished?  Since you used a plural, what other teams have been punishedand how?  How will the Ravens be punished?

 

The NFL has been highly arbitrary.  If they were consistent as you contend, we would all already know the Ravens supposed upcoming punishment because it would have been prescribed ahead of time.  Instead it will be similar to the Pats taping the Bengals.  Double secret probation nonsense.  The Ravens punishment is only "outside of this discussion" because it makes your argument of the league being rule bound look completely absurd.  They are making things up as they go along.

 

The Broncos, who did not have coaches breaking rules, will be physically punished this afternoon.  Players may end up hurt as a result because they are blocking for a WR playing QB and that will certainly have them improvising.  Had the Broncos broken more rules there would be no such risk.  And it is still not certain if or when the Ravens will have to play

 

 

 

The Titans organization was fined over $ 350,000 for their issues.  The Raiders were fined big time (coach, GM, and Team) and lost draft picks.  NE and the Steelers were both fined large sums.  All done after the schedules were set and the NFL investigated the teams.
 

The Ravens punishment will come after the NFL investigates and determines the extent of the issues and the breaches.  I am expecting a big fine for both the coach and the team and a loss of draft picks.  Just like what has been prescribed.

 

So again I will ask (and I do not expect a valid response) - when do you move the Broncos game to - you seem to refuse to answer that.  How does delaying the game help - the QBs will not be available until later in the week next week and you need 5 days to bring in someone else.  What is your proposal to get this game in and be fair to all the teams that have already been through this exact situation?

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I could be wrong, but I think the Denver game on Tuesday would allow them to get a QB back.

 

They were exposed Weds, they should be able to come off the list with negative tests on Monday.

 

 

That could be - they officially went on the COVID list on Saturday.  If they use Saturday - the earliest back would be next Thursday.  
 

If they base it on the exposure date - you are correct they could be ready on Monday and then a Tuesday game would allow them to play.  
 

The issue with that is then they screwed every other team that has had to play short-handed due to COVID and makes a new precedent that other teams will complain about.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

So again I will ask (and I do not expect a valid response) - when do you move the Broncos game to - you seem to refuse to answer that.  How does delaying the game help - the QBs will not be available until later in the week next week and you need 5 days to bring in someone else.  What is your proposal to get this game in and be fair to all the teams that have already been through this exact situation?

 

I would say move it to Tues.

 

Quote

That could be - they officially went on the COVID list on Saturday.  If they use Saturday - the earliest back would be next Thursday.  
If they base it on the exposure date - you are correct they could be ready on Monday and then a Tuesday game would allow them to play.  

 

It goes by exposure date.  Contact tracing also looks back at least 24 hrs from a positive test. 

So the QBs could have potentially become infected but because the contact tracing/quarantine was delayed, be exposing others by the time they were determined to be close contacts and sent home on Saturday (3-4 days later) , constituting a medical reason to postpone the game long enough to determine whether one of the exposed QB will test positive.  If they can come off the Covid list Mon then that bullet is dodged, Play Ball.

 

Quote

The issue with that is then they screwed every other team that has had to play short-handed due to COVID and makes a new precedent that other teams will complain about.

 

See above.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

24 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

So I'm very confused.  According to Schefter, it's only 9 players.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I would say move it to Tues.

 

 

It goes by exposure date.  Contact tracing also looks back at least 24 hrs from a positive test. 

So the QBs could have potentially become infected but because the contact tracing/quarantine was delayed, be exposing others by the time they were determined to be close contacts and sent home on Saturday (3-4 days later) , constituting a medical reason to postpone the game long enough to determine whether one of the exposed QB will test positive.  If they can come off the Covid list Mon then that bullet is dodged, Play Ball.

 

 

See above.

 

I have no issue with any of that.  
 

I also have no issue with what the NFL is doing as that is consistent with what they have previously done for this situation.

 

My problem with the Broncos is not being smarter with the QB situation and then whatever happened in the meeting.  It seems obvious that if the QBs had worn masks the contract tracing would have excluded them, but the lack of masks (not following protocol for meetings) caused the issue and that was found on film.

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by Rochesterfan

[4merper4mer]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

The Titans organization was fined over $ 350,000 for their issues.  The Raiders were fined big time (coach, GM, and Team) and lost draft picks.  NE and the Steelers were both fined large sums.  All done after the schedules were set and the NFL investigated the teams.
 

The Ravens punishment will come after the NFL investigates and determines the extent of the issues and the breaches.  I am expecting a big fine for both the coach and the team and a loss of draft picks.  Just like what has been prescribed.

 

So again I will ask (and I do not expect a valid response) - when do you move the Broncos game to - you seem to refuse to answer that.  How does delaying the game help - the QBs will not be available until later in the week next week and you need 5 days to bring in someone else.  What is your proposal to get this game in and be fair to all the teams that have already been through this exact situation?

 

 

 

Shirley you can't be serious with fines as a "punishment".  And if the NFL was rule bound as you state, we would already know the specific potential punishments based on findings.  But we don't, do we?  Does that sound rule bound or arbitrary to you?  "Big" fines and undisclosed draft picks is vague, not specific.  

 

I think the Broncos messed up by not giving a QB the Fromm treatment.  It is unfortunate that this could result in an injury to one of their players today.  They are primarily culpable because of their mistake, but the league is holding their feet to the fire.  Baltimore, who is egregiously in knowing violation of rules, has been afforded more leeway by the league than Denver.  They were supposed to play Thursday.  They were responsible for their own inability to do so.  They should have been forced to forfeit.  Instead they have put their opponent's schedule into disarray and have a better chance to win than does Denver.

 

The league said violations of protocols would be harshly punished and that has proven to be false.

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So I'm very confused.  According to Schefter, it's only 9 players.

 

 

9 players positive, 13 more close contact?

 

Or the Occum's Shaver solution that the league is making up crap on the fly and disseminating it through mouthpiece Schefter.

[whatdrought]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So I'm very confused.  According to Schefter, it's only 9 players.

 

 

Positive tests vs. close contacts?

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

So I'm very confused.  According to Schefter, it's only 9 players.

 

 

That’s just from the past week (9)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

 

Shirley you can't be serious with fines as a "punishment".  And if the NFL was rule bound as you state, we would already know the specific potential punishments based on findings.  But we don't, do we?  Does that sound rule bound or arbitrary to you?  "Big" fines and undisclosed draft picks is vague, not specific.  

 

I think the Broncos messed up by not giving a QB the Fromm treatment.  It is unfortunate that this could result in an injury to one of their players today.  They are primarily culpable because of their mistake, but the league is holding their feet to the fire.  Baltimore, who is egregiously in knowing violation of rules, has been afforded more leeway by the league than Denver.  They were supposed to play Thursday.  They were responsible for their own inability to do so.  They should have been forced to forfeit.  Instead they have put their opponent's schedule into disarray and have a better chance to win than does Denver.

 

The league said violations of protocols would be harshly punished and that has proven to be false.

9 players positive, 13 more close contact?

 

Or the Occum's Shaver solution that the league is making up crap on the fly and disseminating it through mouthpiece Schefter.

 

 

I don't see how Schefter can be correct.  From the Ravens site:

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/who-s-playing-who-s-not-vs-steelers-x1143

 

I count 13 Raven players explicitly mentioned as being on the Covid list just in that article, with not everyone known to be on the list mentioned.

 

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

That’s just from the past week (9)

 

Pretty sure there's more than that just this past week

 

7 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Positive tests vs. close contacts?

 

That could be it

[4merper4mer]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

I don't see how Schefter can be correct.  From the Ravens site:

https://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/who-s-playing-who-s-not-vs-steelers-x1143

 

I count 13 Raven players explicitly mentioned as being on the Covid list just in that article, with not everyone known to be on the list mentioned.

 

 

Pretty sure there's more than that just this past week

It almost looks like the league is helping out the Ravens and Schefter is the broom sweeping it under the rug huh?

[chaccof]

2 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

 

Shirley you can't be serious with fines as a "punishment"........

Don't call me Shirley.......😆

[Bubba Gump]

Bottom line is the NFL isn't consistent in anything it does. Never has been.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

On 11/29/2020 at 8:20 AM, YoloinOhio said:

 

They are trying to make a playoff run. I guess they are going with the college strategy of getting your team Covid before the playoffs, at least that’s what it looks like with so many players infected. You can never trust a Harbaugh. 

[Punching Bag]

 

A FB who plays snaps on defense - weird!