Big Turk Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 With 107... Granted the next 2 teams on the list, the LA Rams with 105 and Tennessee Titans with 96 have only played 8 games, but we will still be in the top 3 even after they play their 9th game...pretty crazy considering we were 20th last year... In fact, we have already ran more play action this year than all of last year(107 this year to 105 last year). We also have the most yards off play action by almost 100 yards over the Rams(975 to 891)... Very interesting new wrinkle Daboll has added... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) A lot of people were calling for more pa plays last year because Allen was good at it Edited November 10, 2020 by Scott7975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Even better if we could consistently pound the rock with the run. If that happens.... oooof. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Problem as I see it though, is play action is most successful when an offense has proven its effectiveness running the ball. Thus, fake what they’re anticipating, slow the pass rush a second and throw over top of them. Just because Pete Carroll doesn’t have a clue doesn’t mean every football team from the League -& WNY High Schools, for that matter- don’t get it. If ‘your team’ only runs 5X in a half, I’m comin’ after yer QB EVERY DAMN PLAY! Run be damned. I don’t get it🤷♂️ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigo Montoya Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 (edited) I have always looked at play action like pre-snap motion. It gives defenders one more thing to account for and process at the beginning of the play and can slow their reaction time by a split second giving the offense an advantage. That slight hesitation on the part of a defender can be the difference between a play hitting big or being blown up. Statistics show that play action passes have a significantly higher completion percentage than passing plays without it. I've never understood why offensive coordinators don't include play action or pre-snap motion in every play they can. I'm glad Daboll has made them a feature of our offense this year. I think it has been paying dividends. Edited November 10, 2020 by Inigo Montoya 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Does the casual fan underestimate the added difficulty of running a play action adds to the quarterback? Essentially you turn your back to the field of play, and have about ~30% less time to see things and make the throw. Allen is in year 3, and the play action is obviously not only decided to be used because our run game strikes fear into our opponents... I look at it as another development aspect that Allen continues to grow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Problem as I see it though, is play action is most successful when an offense has proven its effectiveness running the ball. Thus, fake what they’re anticipating, slow the pass rush a second and throw over top of them. Just because Pete Carroll doesn’t have a clue doesn’t mean every football team from the League -& WNY High Schools, for that matter- don’t get it. If ‘your team’ only runs 5X in a half, I’m comin’ after yer QB EVERY DAMN PLAY! Run be damned. I don’t get it🤷♂️ That's not actually true, though. The threat of the run (play action) is usually enough to freeze the linebackers for a split second. It's instinctive and they can't help it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mushypeaches Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I'm totally onboard with any pre-snap motion or wrinkle that's designed to confuse or slow the defense. For way too long, we ran offenses that didn't challenge or weren't diverse enough It's so refreshing to be on the FRONT end of trends these days and leading the lead in positive offensive stats This, more than most anything else, is why we are 7-2 this season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 47 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said: Even better if we could consistently pound the rock with the run. If that happens.... oooof. Running the ball has zero correlation to play action success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 40 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Problem as I see it though, is play action is most successful when an offense has proven its effectiveness running the ball. Thus, fake what they’re anticipating, slow the pass rush a second and throw over top of them. Just because Pete Carroll doesn’t have a clue doesn’t mean every football team from the League -& WNY High Schools, for that matter- don’t get it. If ‘your team’ only runs 5X in a half, I’m comin’ after yer QB EVERY DAMN PLAY! Run be damned. I don’t get it🤷♂️ It's been proven that play action is effective whether or not you're running the ball effectively All it takes is a linebacker to look in the backfield for a split second and that's all it takes Sure there's some linebackers that don't fall for it, but as I said, watching film for 30 years, and looking at studies.. play action is effective regardless of how you run 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 10, 2020 Author Share Posted November 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Problem as I see it though, is play action is most successful when an offense has proven its effectiveness running the ball. Thus, fake what they’re anticipating, slow the pass rush a second and throw over top of them. Just because Pete Carroll doesn’t have a clue doesn’t mean every football team from the League -& WNY High Schools, for that matter- don’t get it. If ‘your team’ only runs 5X in a half, I’m comin’ after yer QB EVERY DAMN PLAY! Run be damned. I don’t get it🤷♂️ No it isn't There is no correlation to running the ball successfully and success of play action passes. Being in a down and distance where a run is LIKELY is much more correlated to play action success than your actual success rate. 19 minutes ago, MJS said: That's not actually true, though. The threat of the run (play action) is usually enough to freeze the linebackers for a split second. It's instinctive and they can't help it. Yes, simply being in a down and distance that makes a run LIKELY is correlated with success of play action. Actually running the ball well is NOT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 51 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Problem as I see it though, is play action is most successful when an offense has proven its effectiveness running the ball. Thus, fake what they’re anticipating, slow the pass rush a second and throw over top of them. Just because Pete Carroll doesn’t have a clue doesn’t mean every football team from the League -& WNY High Schools, for that matter- don’t get it. If ‘your team’ only runs 5X in a half, I’m comin’ after yer QB EVERY DAMN PLAY! Run be damned. I don’t get it🤷♂️ This exactly. They see this on film and will shoot for Allen everytime. Hope they do run the ball a little more to keep D's honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 The data has shown for a while now that you do NOT need to have an effective run game in order for play action to be productive during a given game. Just thought I'd mention that; not sure how much that relates to the Bills one way or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I think the Bills have been variable. Just last week they ran it a lot. They are always a threat to do that again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Our play action is so good that we don't even need to run the ball. I think we could have yelled the play out to the Seahawks defense before the snap and probably still put up at least 35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Jobot said: Does the casual fan underestimate the added difficulty of running a play action adds to the quarterback? Essentially you turn your back to the field of play, and have about ~30% less time to see things and make the throw. Allen is in year 3, and the play action is obviously not only decided to be used because our run game strikes fear into our opponents... I look at it as another development aspect that Allen continues to grow. good point never thought of the back turned aspect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Boy Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 2 hours ago, matter2003 said: Running the ball has zero correlation to play action success. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/establishing-the-run-does-matter/ar-BBXgJfg It depends on how you crunch the data. You can tell me till you are blue in the face that Analytics show a running game doesn’t. 40+ years of watching the box get stuffed and good QBs kill them with the PA tells me otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 The problem with movement on every play as some suggest is that penalties tend to increase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/establishing-the-run-does-matter/ar-BBXgJfg It depends on how you crunch the data. You can tell me till you are blue in the face that Analytics show a running game doesn’t. 40+ years of watching the box get stuffed and good QBs kill them with the PA tells me otherwise. They aren't even playing the same game from 10 years ago so 40 years is kind of irrelevant to how the game is played today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYGPopgun10 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 6 hours ago, matter2003 said: With 107... Granted the next 2 teams on the list, the LA Rams with 105 and Tennessee Titans with 96 have only played 8 games, but we will still be in the top 3 even after they play their 9th game...pretty crazy considering we were 20th last year... In fact, we have already ran more play action this year than all of last year(107 this year to 105 last year). We also have the most yards off play action by almost 100 yards over the Rams(975 to 891)... Very interesting new wrinkle Daboll has added... I have always been a fan of running play action. Especially if you have a good QB who can make a great fake and get defenses to bite. It also helps to have a mobile QB like Allen who is a dual threat as a passer and runner. He can extend plays. That can be tough on opponents. That's the league now. Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson, Tua, Lamar Jackson, even Bridgewater. I would like to one day include Daniel Jones because he's a good runner. But he has to become more consistent and not turn the ball over. The jury is out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/establishing-the-run-does-matter/ar-BBXgJfg It depends on how you crunch the data. You can tell me till you are blue in the face that Analytics show a running game doesn’t. 40+ years of watching the box get stuffed and good QBs kill them with the PA tells me otherwise. He makes the point that the most important thing is that the D feels "could be run, could be pass" and is unsure which one. Which kind of is exactly what the correlation between being in a down and distance that makes a run more likely and play action pass being successful shows. This was the highest correlation to success of play action that was found in the analytics...which he basically just parroted in a different way but said the same thing. The whole point is that regardless of how well the teams historically have run the ball, hiw well they ran it the week prior, how well they rannit in the first half or on the previous series or even in the same series there is no correlation...some of the worst running teams in the league had some of the best play action success. Some of the best running teams had some of the best play action success. Some of the worst running teams had some of the worst play action success. Some of the best running teams had some of the worst play action success. Some of the middle of the road running teams had some of the best success at play action and some had some of the worst success at play action. In short teams were all across the board and there was no metric or run success rate or anything else that could be correlated to how well the team did with play action. Edited November 11, 2020 by matter2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hebert19 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 And as soon as they stop respecting the run we gash them with it. Pass to set up the run. That's what we did vs new England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott7975 Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 7 hours ago, Chandler#81 said: Problem as I see it though, is play action is most successful when an offense has proven its effectiveness running the ball. Thus, fake what they’re anticipating, slow the pass rush a second and throw over top of them. Just because Pete Carroll doesn’t have a clue doesn’t mean every football team from the League -& WNY High Schools, for that matter- don’t get it. If ‘your team’ only runs 5X in a half, I’m comin’ after yer QB EVERY DAMN PLAY! Run be damned. I don’t get it🤷♂️ Its not just about slowing the pass rush. It also freezes the linebackers because if you are running the ball they have to fill gaps. This creates space for your receiving crew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smuvtalker Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 It's like the reverse with us, we pass to set up the run lol. I love the fact that we run so much play-action, cause like someone said, Josh is damn good at it. Man if he can learn to keep his hands in the same position when he's fake snapping it, watch out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts