Daboll and the state of the Bills

[Buffalo Barbarian]

I cant believe im doing this thread again, as i did it for Hackett years ago when i supported him fully, but it was clear to see he didn't get better and needed to go.

 

So to with Dabol who is creative with the passing game ,which i really do appreciate, but he is lot like Chan Gailey in that he always wants to pass and neglects the run. I know this is a passing league but you still have to run and stop the run, which leads to the next problem.

 

I dont know who sold McDermott on small ball but it is a fatal mistake that has and will haunt this team all season. I still believe McDermott is the right coach for this team but he forgot what he always preaches in being a tough physical team that sticks to the fundamentals.

 

Beane made a huge mistake in letting too many defenders go, not keeping a fullback and still has never had a quality offensive line since he has been here. I'm not sure Beane will do it this year like he did the past few years but he needs to scour the waiver wire for some size at DT like he did with Jordan Phillips and Corey Liuget, so the rest of the defense can make plays like they have the 3 previous years. Also letting Hauschka go when you thought we were going deep into the playoffs was a bad move. Rookie kickers are rarely great and take a few years to get consistent, not something you want when we had championship aspirations.

 

What needs to happen this offseason is Daboll needs to go because he will always want to pass as that is just who he is. Loved when Greg Roman was here but doubt we can get him back but what we need is someone who is committed to balance and is creative in the run and passing game.

 

Im not a fan of our conservative defense philosophy ,but it can work as long as the tackles can do there job.

 

Beane need to get size AND talent on both sides of the line, get a fullback who can block and catch or run, get better at linebacker , another top corner and back 7 depth.  and find new scouts for offensive line because we haven't hit any homeruns there as the only ok players are the center and LT.

 

 

McDermott needs to get back to the process and trust it .

 

 

[ProcessTruster]

400+ yards offense today.  Please stop.  Daboll is fine.   Geez.   

 

Gotta throw and defend the pass to win the SB in this league now.   Run and stop the run like its 1973 looks nice and makes you feel like a man, until you play the top 5 teams , then you get steamrollered by big time, efficient passing games led by great passers and encouraged by today's rules.  

 

Again,  400+ yards offense , none in garbage time.   Nuf said.  Move on.   

[Coach Tuesday]

A lot of words to just say “fire Daboll.”

[Warcodered]

The run game actually had a little bit of life today.

[PIZ]

I thought Daboll was going to Houston and we were all worried about who would replace him?

[mjt328]

Last year, everyone was complaining because Daboll was too conservative and not throwing enough.

The last three games everyone is complaining because Daboll is throwing too much.

The problem (as it usually is) is not with coaching.  It's with our players not performing.

 

Coming into the season, the story on Josh Allen was that he couldn't hit the deep ball.  So over the first 3-4 games, defenses dared him to beat them over the top.  And Allen responded by putting up MVP-like numbers with the deep ball.  At the same time, the Bills were struggling to establish any kind of running game.  

 

What we have seen recently, is opposing defenses adjusting to our success throwing the ball deep.  Similar to what WE did against the Chiefs, they are leaving open the check-downs and daring us to run the ball consistently.  Against the Titans and Chiefs, Allen was not patient enough to take the check-downs.  Instead, he tried forcing the ball down the field into coverage.  Thankfully, Allen did a better job of this today.  But we STILL haven't really established a running game.  And it's one of the main reasons we also struggled in the Red Zone.

 

Simply put.  Our run blocking has been atrocious this year.  This is not on Daboll.  This is mostly on our interior line/guards, who are not getting any kind of push.  Hopefully this changes when we get back Jon Feliciano.

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

So I didn't love all the playcalling today. The McKenzie pop pass that was snuffed out was a bad call.... but I struggle to blame him for Davis not lining up correctly and Tyler Kroft tripping over Daniel Jones's laces.

[mjt328]

6 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

400+ yards offense today.  Please stop.  Daboll is fine.   Geez.   

 

Gotta throw and defend the pass to win the SB in this league now.   Run and stop the run like its 1973 looks nice and makes you feel like a man, until you play the top 5 teams , then you get steamrollered by big time, efficient passing games led by great passers and encouraged by today's rules.  

 

Again,  400+ yards offense , none in garbage time.   Nuf said.  Move on.   

 

Agree the problem is not coaching.

 

But the most successful teams are not one-dimensional. 

 

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

So I didn't love all the playcalling today. The McKenzie pop pass that was snuffed out was a bad call.... but I struggle to blame him for Davis not lining up correctly and Tyler Kroft tripping over Daniel Jones's laces.

They lack speed.  Probably the slowest running back tandem in the league.  Moss in open space looked like he was running in quicksand.  They really do need a speed back and/or a seam-stretching tight end.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Coach Tuesday

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Coach Tuesday said:

They lack speed.  Probably the slowest running back tandem in the league.  Moss in open space looked like he was running in quicksand.  They really do need a speed back and/or a seam-stretching tight end.

 

Yep. I did say this about the backs before we drafted them. Think they are both good #2s. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

54 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

I cant believe im doing this thread again, as i did it for Hackett years ago when i supported him fully, but it was clear to see he didn't get better and needed to go.

 

So to with Dabol who is creative with the passing game ,which i really do appreciate, but he is lot like Chan Gailey in that he always wants to pass and neglects the run. I know this is a passing league but you still have to run and stop the run, which leads to the next problem.

 

I dont know who sold McDermott on small ball but it is a fatal mistake that has and will haunt this team all season. I still believe McDermott is the right coach for this team but he forgot what he always preaches in being a tough physical team that sticks to the fundamentals.

 

Beane made a huge mistake in letting too many defenders go, not keeping a fullback and still has never had a quality offensive line since he has been here. I'm not sure Beane will do it this year like he did the past few years but he needs to scour the waiver wire for some size at DT like he did with Jordan Phillips and Corey Liuget, so the rest of the defense can make plays like they have the 3 previous years. Also letting Hauschka go when you thought we were going deep into the playoffs was a bad move. Rookie kickers are rarely great and take a few years to get consistent, not something you want when we had championship aspirations.

 

What needs to happen this offseason is Daboll needs to go because he will always want to pass as that is just who he is. Loved when Greg Roman was here but doubt we can get him back but what we need is someone who is committed to balance and is creative in the run and passing game.

 

Im not a fan of our conservative defense philosophy ,but it can work as long as the tackles can do there job.

 

Beane need to get size AND talent on both sides of the line, get a fullback who can block and catch or run, get better at linebacker , another top corner and back 7 depth.  and find new scouts for offensive line because we haven't hit any homeruns there as the only ok players are the center and LT.

 

 

McDermott needs to get back to the process and trust it .

 

 

 

I think it might be helpful to look at some of the videos/scheme breakdowns folks have put up

 

The bottom line is a run game depends upon blocking, and we aren't delivering what it needs right now

 

Daboll is shielding the team by taking it on his shoulders "I need to design better plays" "I need to call better plays"

He and Dorsey need to work with Josh on checking to a run at the right time

But until we can block better, it isn't gonna work too well

 

 

[ProcessTruster]

Just now, mjt328 said:

 

Agree the problem is not coaching.

 

But the most successful teams are not one-dimensional. 

 

ran for 100, threw for 300, works for me.  I'd take that just about every game.   The Davis and Kroft throws were money.   The pitchouts to WRs to open the run game was money from the coaches.

 

Josh was sharp today.  

[Logic]

The Bills never punted today.

Yes, they needed to do a better job in the red zone, clearly. But when your punter never enters the game, it means your offense did a good job moving the ball.

It's simple: Defenses are playing soft deep zones and daring the Bills to beat them underneath and through the running game. That's what defenses do against good QBs and good passing offenses. It's what teams do to Patrick Mahomes. Think about that: Teams are now defending the Bills offense the same way that they defend Mahomes and the Chiefs offense. In order to defeat that and force teams out of their zones, the Bills need to be able to run the ball and complete underneath passes. They haven't been able to do so with any consistency until this week. 

The ONLY bone of contention I have with Daboll is that he's too quick to abandon the run at times. Then again, seeing how poorly the Bills ran the ball when they DID try to do so the first six weeks, I sort of can't blame him.

Teams used to blitz Allen and play man. He learned to beat that and did so with regularity the first four weeks. Now teams are taking a different path, and little by little, Allen is adapting. It's hard, though, without a run game. Even Mahomes still struggles at times when teams drop eight against him.

 

[mjt328]

1 minute ago, ProcessTruster said:

ran for 100, threw for 300, works for me.  I'd take that just about every game.   The Davis and Kroft throws were money.   The pitchouts to WRs to open the run game was money from the coaches.

 

Josh was sharp today.  

 

Only ran for 100 because of Allen.

 

We don't need to be the Titans.  But at some point, we need to establish a semi-successful running game with our RBs.

 

[ProcessTruster]

7 minutes ago, Logic said:

The Bills never punted today.

Yes, they needed to do a better job in the red zone, clearly. But when your punter never enters the game, it means your offense did a good job moving the ball.

It's simple: Defenses are playing soft deep zones and daring the Bills to beat them underneath and through the running game. That's what defenses do against good QBs and good passing offenses. It's what teams do to Patrick Mahomes. Think about that: Teams are now defending the Bills offense the same way that they defend Mahomes and the Chiefs offense. In order to defeat that and force teams out of their zones, the Bills need to be able to run the ball and complete underneath passes. They haven't been able to do so with any consistency until this week. 

The ONLY bone of contention I have with Daboll is that he's too quick to abandon the run at times. Then again, seeing how poorly the Bills ran the ball when they DID try to do so the first six weeks, I sort of can't blame him.

Teams used to blitz Allen and play man. He learned to beat that and did so with regularity the first four weeks. Now teams are taking a different path, and little by little, Allen is adapting. It's hard, though, without a run game. Even Mahomes still struggles at times when teams drop eight against him.

 

yep they are totally zoning him now to take away both 1) his scrambles and 2) all the crossing routes.   the Raiders were so dumb to play man and they shredded them with the crossing routes -- that is all gone now.   

 

He is adapting.   

6 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

 

Only ran for 100 because of Allen.

 

We don't need to be the Titans.  But at some point, we need to establish a semi-successful running game with our RBs.

 

RPO and zone read IS a fundamental part of the Bills (and Ravens) offense.  Is what it is.  I like it.  Josh is a part of the Bills run game .   they tried to get LeVeon Bell, didn't work.  Beane is trying. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by ProcessTruster

[Buffalo Barbarian]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think it might be helpful to look at some of the videos/scheme breakdowns folks have put up

 

The bottom line is a run game depends upon blocking, and we aren't delivering what it needs right now

 

Daboll is shielding the team by taking it on his shoulders "I need to design better plays" "I need to call better plays"

He and Dorsey need to work with Josh on checking to a run at the right time

But until we can block better, it isn't gonna work too well

 

 

 

I already stated we need better lineman and a fullback but we will never get better at running if we dont try it. Also trying to run out of 4 wide on a consistent basis. Daboll tried to pass a lot last year until McDermott reigned him in.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

I guess Bills fans can rest easy that Dabaoll won't be getting a HC job next season.

 

Could be out the door.

 

 

[dakrider]

8 minutes ago, Logic said:

The Bills never punted today.

Yes, they needed to do a better job in the red zone, clearly. But when your punter never enters the game, it means your offense did a good job moving the ball.

It's simple: Defenses are playing soft deep zones and daring the Bills to beat them underneath and through the running game. That's what defenses do against good QBs and good passing offenses. It's what teams do to Patrick Mahomes. Think about that: Teams are now defending the Bills offense the same way that they defend Mahomes and the Chiefs offense. In order to defeat that and force teams out of their zones, the Bills need to be able to run the ball and complete underneath passes. They haven't been able to do so with any consistency until this week. 

The ONLY bone of contention I have with Daboll is that he's too quick to abandon the run at times. Then again, seeing how poorly the Bills ran the ball when they DID try to do so the first six weeks, I sort of can't blame him.

Teams used to blitz Allen and play man. He learned to beat that and did so with regularity the first four weeks. Now teams are taking a different path, and little by little, Allen is adapting. It's hard, though, without a run game. Even Mahomes still struggles at times when teams drop eight against him.

 

Imagine how Mahomes would have done had the Chiefs not run for 800 yards against the Bills!  

Yeah, you HAVE to be able to run the ball to be successful in the NFL.  Pure passing teams get yards and points but always lose to well balanced teams.  

Singletary is not the answer at RB.  He certainly has a place but is not an everydown RB.  

[Buffalo Barbarian]

24 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

400+ yards offense today.  Please stop.  Daboll is fine.   Geez.   

 

Gotta throw and defend the pass to win the SB in this league now.   Run and stop the run like its 1973 looks nice and makes you feel like a man, until you play the top 5 teams , then you get steamrollered by big time, efficient passing games led by great passers and encouraged by today's rules.  

 

Again,  400+ yards offense , none in garbage time.   Nuf said.  Move on.   

 

You friggin stats guys are ridiculous.

 

Did you see us scoring touchdowns, how about running the ball?? No, i didnt think so. The jets are trash and we should have rolled them up but we barely made it out of there.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

You friggin stats guys are ridiculous.

 

Did you see us scoring touchdowns, how about running the ball?? No, i didnt think so. The jets are trash and we should have rolled them up but we barely made it out of there.

 

I saw two playcalls that were touchdowns and players blew with execution. Davis and Kroft.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

25 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The run game actually had a little bit of life today.

 

Cmon dude, a Allen shouldn't be our primary option, singletary and moss had a couple of runs, that doesnt constitute a solid running game.

 

 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I saw two playcalls that were touchdowns and players blew with execution. Davis and Kroft.

 

 

Thats nice, still doesnt make up for not being able to run.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

24 minutes ago, mjt328 said:

Last year, everyone was complaining because Daboll was too conservative and not throwing enough.

The last three games everyone is complaining because Daboll is throwing too much.

The problem (as it usually is) is not with coaching.  It's with our players not performing.

 

Coming into the season, the story on Josh Allen was that he couldn't hit the deep ball.  So over the first 3-4 games, defenses dared him to beat them over the top.  And Allen responded by putting up MVP-like numbers with the deep ball.  At the same time, the Bills were struggling to establish any kind of running game.  

 

What we have seen recently, is opposing defenses adjusting to our success throwing the ball deep.  Similar to what WE did against the Chiefs, they are leaving open the check-downs and daring us to run the ball consistently.  Against the Titans and Chiefs, Allen was not patient enough to take the check-downs.  Instead, he tried forcing the ball down the field into coverage.  Thankfully, Allen did a better job of this today.  But we STILL haven't really established a running game.  And it's one of the main reasons we also struggled in the Red Zone.

 

Simply put.  Our run blocking has been atrocious this year.  This is not on Daboll.  This is mostly on our interior line/guards, who are not getting any kind of push.  Hopefully this changes when we get back Jon Feliciano.

 

 

 

 

I have supported Dabol for three years, hes just Chan Galley junior.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Thats nice, still doesnt make up for not being able to run.

 

 

The inability to run is because they have a finesse center and two useless guards. The way you normally mitigate that is run outside, however we have two backs too slow and non-explosive who can't get to the edge and turn the corner. Not sure any amount of scheming in the world overcomes that.

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Cmon dude, a Allen shouldn't be our primary option, singletary and moss had a couple of runs, that doesnt constitute a solid running game.

 

 

They had 15 for 76 yards today. They didn't run a ton but they started to use it more effectively in this game.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

23 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

So I didn't love all the playcalling today. The McKenzie pop pass that was snuffed out was a bad call.... but I struggle to blame him for Davis not lining up correctly and Tyler Kroft tripping over Daniel Jones's laces.

 

You're missing the point, we are one dimensional and that has been figured out. We are going to have a tough time beating solid teams unless we make seriously philosophical changes on offense and defense.

 

 

Just now, Warcodered said:

They had 15 for 76 yards today. They didn't run a ton but they started to use it more effectively in this game.

 

No they didn't, they ran Allen more because we cant run block for running backs.

 

 

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

I have supported Dabol for three years, hes just Chan Galley junior.

 

 

 

It'd be awful if the Bills had a clone of a very highly regarded long-time NFL OCoordinator 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

You're missing the point, we are one dimensional and that has been figured out. We are going to have a tough time beating solid teams unless we make seriously philosophical changes on offense and defense.

 

 

You can't make philosophical changes without considering what you have the talent to run. 

[Simon]

6 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

No they didn't, they ran Allen more because we cant run block for running backs.

 

 

We should definitely fire Dabol then 

[34-78-83]

BB.....Cut your losses dude. Nicest way I can put it.

[DuckyBoys]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

You're missing the point, we are one dimensional and that has been figured out. We are going to have a tough time beating solid teams unless we make seriously philosophical changes on offense and defense.

 

 

Lack of the run game is going to expose us anytime Allen doesnt play 100% mistake free and also makes it too easy for the defense.  Has a back broke 60 yards this season in a  game?  Also this is going to expose Allen to a injury when he becomes the #1 rushing option in short yardage situations  If he's the franchise guy its imperative they figure out how to convert third and short and goal to go running the ball with the backs and not Josh

[jkeerie]

35 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

The run game actually had a little bit of life today.

It had a pulse.  We can work with this.  I think Feliciano will make a difference.

[ProcessTruster]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

You friggin stats guys are ridiculous.

 

Did you see us scoring touchdowns, how about running the ball?? No, i didnt think so. The jets are trash and we should have rolled them up but we barely made it out of there.

Stop now please.  You overestimate this roster.   But they problem solved at halftime, switched to the run and added pitch and pass and started bringing 5 and 6 on D and crunched them in the 2nd half.   No NFL team is trash.   Anyone can beat anyone every week.  W/L records tell only a piece of the story.   Bills should have lost to the Rams, everyone with a brain knows that.  If not for Josh Normans strip, they could have very easily lost the Raiders game.   What about the Phins game, who was trash in that game prior to Davis' miracle catch?   

 

Jets got a bunch of talented guys back for this game and they made a difference.   Don't underestimate any opponent from week to week.  Every week stands on its own and records don't mean much any given week.  

 

As BB says, you are what your record says you are.  Bills are 5-2.  Works for me.  

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, jkeerie said:

It had a pulse.  We can work with this.  I think Feliciano will make a difference.

 

So do I. He is our best interior run blocker. 

[Jrb1979]

Where's @JoeinWinslow and his followers who only believe all the matters is your record. 🙄. 

 

They have regressed since the the 4-0 start. Today was a the game to fix many problems against the worst team in the NFL. 

[stevestojan]

The Jets, despite what they show on TV, consist of professional athletes. We put up like 410 yards on them. A TD reversed by a penalty that CBS never showed and then its 22-10 final score. We won, and it’s hard to win in the NFL. 

[scuba guy]

Wow 

It's getting 🔥 in here

 

Monday morning. Offensive c

[Jrb1979]

3 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

Stop now please.  You overestimate this roster.   But they problem solved at halftime, switched to the run and added pitch and pass and started bringing 5 and 6 on D and crunched them in the 2nd half.   No NFL team is trash.   Anyone can beat anyone every week.  W/L records tell only a piece of the story.   Bills should have lost to the Rams, everyone with a brain knows that.  If not for Josh Normans strip, they could have very easily lost the Raiders game.   What about the Phins game, who was trash in that game prior to Davis' miracle catch?   

 

Jets got a bunch of talented guys back for this game and they made a difference.   Don't underestimate any opponent from week to week.  Every week stands on its own and records don't mean much any given week.  

 

As BB says, you are what your record says you are.  Bills are 5-2.  Works for me.  

Can we stop with the whole "Jauron its hard to win in this league nonsense". I'm watching other games around the league today and the good teams have no issue with the worse teams. Bills fans seem to always accept mediocrity. 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You can't make philosophical changes without considering what you have the talent to run. 

 

They could be multiple like they preached for 3 years. How about lining up in run formations and run the ball and then pass out of them too. Daboll just wants run out of 3 and four wide and its not working.

 

[Simon]

Just now, High Football IQ said:

Also somebody needs to tell him the jet sweep stuff just isn't going to work and every time midget mckenzie is out there now teams know what's coming which is why we took a huge loss today on one of them that derailed a drive shades of last year.

 

It's also why Moss and Allen both had some massive lanes today.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

12 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

BB.....Cut your losses dude. Nicest way I can put it.

 

for what?? Im right about this situation and its simple as  that, unless changes are made we are going no where. You think this was a quality win against and even worse team??

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

15 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Lack of the run game is going to expose us anytime Allen doesnt play 100% mistake free and also makes it too easy for the defense.  Has a back broke 60 yards this season in a  game?  Also this is going to expose Allen to a injury when he becomes the #1 rushing option in short yardage situations  If he's the franchise guy its imperative they figure out how to convert third and short and goal to go running the ball with the backs and not Josh

 

I agree