Breaking news: Dawkins signs four year deal worth $60 mill

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

You may be right.  

 

My opinion is that if you asked McBeane, they would not agree with you, because Beane's cap management strategy can't afford three max contracts at what are three of the four highest paid positions (edge being the fourth).   I think Beane has to stretch his system too much to write three of those contracts.  

 

I suspect that if you could have a completely frank conversation with Belichick and Brady, they would tell you that they talked about the fact that Revis got a max contract and Brady didn't.  I believe Brady accepted that fact because he knew he was going to get very good money for a very long time, and it was worth it to him to let Revis get great money for a short time in order to have the defense that would help Brady win.  

 

Beane doesn't have that luxury with White, because Beane doesn't know yet whether Josh is the guy he needs for the long-term, and he doesn't know if Josh will give the Bills the kind of discount that will allow Beane the luxury of spending big on a corner.  If I'm right about a lot of things, in a few years Josh will be a star and he will work for millions less than he could get in the open market.  That's when Beane will be able to afford to pay top dollar for the best corner back.  

 

As I said before, I think if White insists on the best money, Beane will let him walk just like McDermott let Gilmore work.  When the future is set, when the right QB and the right MLB are in place with their contracts, that's when Beane will know if he can write really big checks for another position.  I expect Beane will have the discipline to insist on a team-friendly deal with White.  

 

White will not be allowed to walk and he will reset the market when he signs. I am absolutely convinced on both.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

White will not be allowed to walk and he will reset the market when he signs. I am absolutely convinced on both.

I am not "absolutely convinced," of my view, particularly when I hear your view.   

 

My guess is that he will stay with the Bills but he will not reset the market in the way that mean.  That is, I think White will take a deal that is some measure team-friendly and will not become the unquestionable highest or second highest paid corner.  

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

White will not be allowed to walk and he will reset the market when he signs. I am absolutely convinced on both.

 

Just now, Shaw66 said:

I am not "absolutely convinced," of my view, particularly when I hear your view.   

 

My guess is that he will stay with the Bills but he will not reset the market in the way that mean.  That is, I think White will take a deal that is some measure team-friendly and will not become the unquestionable highest or second highest paid corner.  

Listening to him when he was talking about his decision on whether to opt out or not and how important it was for him to be able to set things up to take care of his entire family while sacrificing time he could spend with his family I think he probably does reset the market wherever he signs.

[Penfield45]

glad we didn't overpay but Ive never been a fan of Dawkins. I always assumed we'd draft a franchise LT next season to replace him. 

 

he is nowhere good enough to be a franchise guy here but guess we will see. 

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

As I said before, I think if White insists on the best money, Beane will let him walk just like McDermott let Gilmore work.

 

They let Gilmore walk because it was year zero of the new regime and Gilmore was not a scheme fit for McDermott's defense. He wasn't ready to give out any huge contracts before getting the lay of the land. Now it is year 3 of the regime and they are trying to create a long term championship caliber team. White is a culture fit and the best player on the team. They won't let him walk and there's been no indication he would take a discount. They have been conservative with the cap for 3 years so that they could afford top end contracts when the time came. Dawkins isn't really a good comparison because he isn't arguably the best in the league at his position.

 

They aren't saving money for a DE because edge rusher isn't as important in McDermott's scheme. I still hope we get a top pass rusher some day but Oliver is his key defensive line player. His philosophy is get pressure up the middle, hold the edge, get a rangy MLB and zone corners to lock down passing windows. White, Edmunds, and Oliver are the cornerstone players on defense and they will all get paid when it's their turn. Everyone else around them is replaceable.

[Logic]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

His philosophy is get pressure up the middle, hold the edge, get a rangy MLB and zone corners to lock down passing windows. White, Edmunds, and Oliver are the cornerstone players on defense and they will all get paid when it's their turn. Everyone else around them is replaceable.

 

I agree with this. 

 

If if it’s true that a team can afford 6-7 big contracts on their team — and that DOES seem to be the case around the league — I see Oliver, White, and Edmunds on defense and Allen (hopefully), Diggs, And TBD on offense. For now, it’s Dawkins, but he’s not making huge, prohibitive money.

 

Everyone else is mix ‘n’ match.

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

They let Gilmore walk because it was year zero of the new regime and Gilmore was not a scheme fit for McDermott's defense. He wasn't ready to give out any huge contracts before getting the lay of the land. Now it is year 3 of the regime and they are trying to create a long term championship caliber team. White is a culture fit and the best player on the team. They won't let him walk and there's been no indication he would take a discount. They have been conservative with the cap for 3 years so that they could afford top end contracts when the time came. Dawkins isn't really a good comparison because he isn't arguably the best in the league at his position.

 

They aren't saving money for a DE because edge rusher isn't as important in McDermott's scheme. I still hope we get a top pass rusher some day but Oliver is his key defensive line player. His philosophy is get pressure up the middle, hold the edge, get a rangy MLB and zone corners to lock down passing windows. White, Edmunds, and Oliver are the cornerstone players on defense and they will all get paid when it's their turn. Everyone else around them is replaceable.

 

If they let White walk it will be a mistake. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Happy for my Eskimo bro. ?

 

not sure if he’ll ever be elite but he’s super tough and a great character guy who works his butt off.  The team is better for having a guy like him.  He should be a team captain.  Congrats. 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Logic said:

 

I agree with this. 

 

If if it’s true that a team can afford 6-7 big contracts on their team — and that DOES seem to be the case around the league — I see Oliver, White, and Edmunds on defense and Allen (hopefully), Diggs, And TBD on offense. For now, it’s Dawkins, but he’s not making huge, prohibitive money.

 

Everyone else is mix ‘n’ match.

6-7 big contracts was Whaley's philosophy.  He said so when they extended Cordy Glenn.   Three on offense, three on defense.  And yes, many teams do that, but not all.  

 

It is definitely not Belichick's philosophy.   He never has six big contracts.   I also think it is not Beane's philosophy, but we will see.  

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

6-7 big contracts was Whaley's philosophy.  He said so when they extended Cordy Glenn.   Three on offense, three on defense.  And yes, many teams do that, but not all.  

 

It is definitely not Belichick's philosophy.   He never has six big contracts.   I also think it is not Beane's philosophy, but we will see.  

 

If we are talking Belichick though Shaw the one position he does pay, consistently, is secondary. Gilmore, McCourty, Revis etc. I agree though that his model has generally been 3 or 4 big contracts and then a lot of guys in that mid range. 

[Doc]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

If we are talking Belichick though Shaw the one position he does pay, consistently, is secondary. Gilmore, McCourty, Revis etc. I agree though that his model has generally been 3 or 4 big contracts and then a lot of guys in that mid range. 

 

He could afford to do that in the past.  The future will be another story entirely.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

White will not be allowed to walk and he will reset the market when he signs. I am absolutely convinced on both.

i have to agree.

[3rdand12]

2 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I am not "absolutely convinced," of my view, particularly when I hear your view.   

 

My guess is that he will stay with the Bills but he will not reset the market in the way that mean.  That is, I think White will take a deal that is some measure team-friendly and will not become the unquestionable highest or second highest paid corner.  

if he does reset it ? I am okay and expect it. If he comes in a tad lower? I will be an even bigger fan of his : )

[Shaw66]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

If we are talking Belichick though Shaw the one position he does pay, consistently, is secondary. Gilmore, McCourty, Revis etc. I agree though that his model has generally been 3 or 4 big contracts and then a lot of guys in that mid range. 

Yes, he does do that.   It is consistent.   He builds his defensive philosophy on a the shut-down corner, because that gives him ultimate flexibility with the other 10 players.  

 

I don't think McDermott has the same philosophy.   His philosophy is up-the-field strength.  His first year, his philosophy was signaled by trading Gilmore for Hyde and Poyer.  His philosophy is signaled by Keuchly and Edmunds.  

 

I agree the defensive philosophies are different.  What we'll see as they deal with contracts for White, Edmunds, and Allen, is whether Beane subscribes to the six-big-contracts theory or Belichick's two-or-three-stars-and-spread-the-rest-of-the-money-around theory. 

[3rdand12]

I think this sets the example for how they treat key Draft picks who work their tail off to succeed.
another year next to Spain will help the left side improve on what they were building last year.

[Logic]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If they let White walk it will be a mistake. 

 

Yep.

 

Don’t let 24-year-old All-Pros at premium positions (who are also exemplary locker room, culture, and community fits) walk out the door.

 

Aside from it being a huge asset ON the field, it’s also important that Beane sets the example that guys who go about their business like Tre get paid. The first pick of the McDermott era. Best player on the team. 

 

You pay that man.

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He could afford to do that in the past.  The future will be another story entirely.

 

May very well be. 

[Buddo]

It's an interesting proposition.

Traditionally, Cover CBs weren't getting paid the same as man CBs.

However, in todays NFL, flexibility seems to be the byword. That flexibility means that White may well get paid, because it affords McDermott more system flexibility, similarly to Belicheck, but not in the same ways. White lets McDermott do a lot of other things, in his system.

Principle being the same, execution different.

 

Imho, White will get paid, providing he keeps his head down and keeps working. It goes too much against the overall philosophy of Beane and McDermott, for that not to happen, unless White's demands are astronomical. I don't think they will be, as I think he's a level headed guy. He won't settle for much under the market, if at all, but I don't eel he thinks he has to set the market. I think he'll get serious money, that will probably have more guaranteed than expected, yet less overall. All of which is supposition.

 

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Yes, he does do that.   It is consistent.   He builds his defensive philosophy on a the shut-down corner, because that gives him ultimate flexibility with the other 10 players.  

 

I don't think McDermott has the same philosophy.   His philosophy is up-the-field strength.  His first year, his philosophy was signaled by trading Gilmore for Hyde and Poyer.  His philosophy is signaled by Keuchly and Edmunds.  

 

I agree the defensive philosophies are different.  What we'll see as they deal with contracts for White, Edmunds, and Allen, is whether Beane subscribes to the six-big-contracts theory or Belichick's two-or-three-stars-and-spread-the-rest-of-the-money-around theory. 

 

Not sure I agree. I think his Bills defenses have been built back to front. He is a defensive backs coach at heart. In Carolina they didn't pay DBs but I think that was Gettleman who followed the same approach in New York letting go of early picks Eli Apple and Landon Collins for example. 

4 minutes ago, Logic said:

 

Yep.

 

Don’t let 24-year-old All-Pros at premium positions (who are also exemplary locker room, culture, and community fits) walk out the door.

 

Aside from it being a huge asset ON the field, it’s also important that Beane sets the example that guys who go about their business like Tre get paid. The first pick of the McDermott era. Best player on the team. 

 

You pay that man.

 

Totally agree. 

[Shaw66]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Not sure I agree. I think his Bills defenses have been built back to front. He is a defensive backs coach at heart. In Carolina they didn't pay DBs but I think that was Gettleman who followed the same approach in New York letting go of early picks Eli Apple and Landon Collins for example. 

Fair enough.  We'll know in the next few months.  

 

If the Bills extend his contract, we will know when we see the contract. 

 

If they exercise the fifth-year option, it will probably mean White wants top dollar and the Bills were reluctant to give it to him.  

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Fair enough.  We'll know in the next few months.  

 

If the Bills extend his contract, we will know when we see the contract. 

 

If they exercise the fifth-year option, it will probably mean White wants top dollar and the Bills were reluctant to give it to him.  

 

They exercised the option. That already happened. That is normal practice you have to make an option decision after year 3 and then normally you do the extension after year 4. If he ever plays on the option (ie. Goes into year 5 without a deal) then the Bills are letting him walk. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

May very well be. 

 

Seems to already be happening.  Never thought I'd see him spend almost $15M on an OG.

[GunnerBill]

27 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Seems to already be happening.  Never thought I'd see him spend almost $15M on an OG.

 

That is the tag though. There seem a lot of tagged players who didn't get deals done this year because of the uncertainty. He hasn't handed that guy that deal. 

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

That is the tag though. There seem a lot of tagged players who didn't get deals done this year because of the uncertainty. He hasn't handed that guy that deal. 

 

I have no doubt they approached him was a far lower offer and he refused.  But that's what he'll be making this year.

 

[GunnerBill]

31 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I have no doubt they approached him was a far lower offer and he refused.  But that's what he'll be making this year.

 

 

Sure but I doubt that constitutes a pattern. Players being less willing to take discounts to play there? Yep. But I am not sure Thuney is an example of that so much as he is an example of the affect covid has had on tagged players. 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Sure but I doubt that constitutes a pattern. Players being less willing to take discounts to play there? Yep. But I am not sure Thuney is an example of that so much as he is an example of the affect covid has had on tagged players. 

 

That's what I've been saying.  And if they couldn't get Thuney to take a hometown discount and had to resort to tagging him...

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

That's what I've been saying.  And if they couldn't get Thuney to take a hometown discount and had to resort to tagging him...

 

They tagged him and then would have signed him in most years. A lot of tagged guys went unsigned this year. Think that is the circumstances of covid not an indication about the Patriots new normal.

[ColoradoBills]

Dawkins contract came in today on Spotrac.

6 million jump in 2020 cap hit front loaded.

I like it!

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/dion-dawkins-21805/

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Dawkins contract came in today on Spotrac.

6 million jump in 2020 cap hit front loaded.

I like it!

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/dion-dawkins-21805/

Nice, well done BB

 

[billsfan89]

On 8/16/2020 at 9:27 AM, Shaw66 said:

I am not "absolutely convinced," of my view, particularly when I hear your view.   

 

My guess is that he will stay with the Bills but he will not reset the market in the way that mean.  That is, I think White will take a deal that is some measure team-friendly and will not become the unquestionable highest or second highest paid corner.  

 

You don't think Tre IF he has another monster year in 2020 is going to at least get 17 million aav? Because right now the highest paid corner is 16.7 million aav. I think Tre depending on how good his 2020 is and how the Bills structure his deal will be around 9.5% of the cap which will depending on the cap will be between 17.5-19.5 million aav. The corner market will be set by Tre in some form. The question is by how much?

[ColoradoBills]

10 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

You don't think Tre IF he has another monster year in 2020 is going to at least get 17 million aav? Because right now the highest paid corner is 16.7 million aav. I think Tre depending on how good his 2020 is and how the Bills structure his deal will be around 9.5% of the cap which will depending on the cap will be between 17.5-19.5 million aav. The corner market will be set by Tre in some form. The question is by how much?

 

I agree that Tre will be the highest paid CB in the league when he signs.

I'm thinking (and hoping) it will only be a small increase over the previous high.

I don't think he is the kind of guy that needs to see a big jump.

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

11 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I agree that Tre will be the highest paid CB in the league when he signs.

I'm thinking (and hoping) it will only be a small increase over the previous high.

I don't think he is the kind of guy that needs to see a big jump.

 

What are you basing this on? I like Tre and think he is top 2-3 CB’s in the game. Nothing I have seen says he will be giving home team discounts. Just my gut, but if the Bills want to keep Tre; it’s going to be because he is the highest paid and probably by whatever is the standard increase, if there is one. I also think Beane will get it done if Sean wants it done. 

Edited August 26, 2020 by atlbillsfan1975

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

What are you basing this on? I like Tre and think he is top 2-3 CB’s in the game. Nothing I have seen says he will be giving home team discounts. Just my gut, but if the Bills want to keep Tre it’s going to be wanting to be highest paid and probably by whatever is the standard increase, if there is one. I also think Beane will get it done if Sean wants it done. 

 

That is pretty much what i said.  ?

[atlbillsfan1975]

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

That is pretty much what i said.  ?

Pretty close. I think some fans see Tre like Dawkins, this isn’t going to be the case. Tre is waiting because he believes every year he waits means a bigger deal. The new adjusted salary cap is going to make everything interesting. 

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

29 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Dawkins contract came in today on Spotrac.

6 million jump in 2020 cap hit front loaded.

I like it!

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/dion-dawkins-21805/

Thanks for posting this @ColoradoBills, I hadn't seen this elsewhere! Man this front office just continues to get me through these strange times we're living in!

 

Increasing the cap hit in 2020 when we have the extra room makes too much sense and correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the contract is 4 yrs/$58.3 million which is $1.7 less than initially reported. Every little bit helps, keep it going Beane!

[ColoradoBills]

9 minutes ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

Thanks for posting this @ColoradoBills, I hadn't seen this elsewhere! Man this front office just continues to get me through these strange times we're living in!

 

Increasing the cap hit in 2020 when we have the extra room makes too much sense and correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the contract is 4 yrs/$58.3 million which is $1.7 less than initially reported. Every little bit helps, keep it going Beane!

 

I have been curious about it so I have been checking Spotrac every day and it just came in.

Yes it is a little under but he has a bunch of incentives he will likely hit to increase it to the 60 million.

 

Just a personal thing, I find the money side of football interesting.  Beane has said he wants to build a competitive team for the

long haul and IMO contracts like these proves it.  He's not pushing contract out in the future that could cause problems signing other players.

 

I think it's not only responsible for the team and the fans but for the players too! 

[Dont Stop Billeiving]

5 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I have been curious about it so I have been checking Spotrac every day and it just came in.

Yes it is a little under but he has a bunch of incentives he will likely hit to increase it to the 60 million.

 

Just a personal thing, I find the money side of football interesting.  Beane has said he wants to build a competitive team for the

long haul and IMO contracts like these proves it.  He's not pushing contract out in the future that could cause problems signing other players.

 

I think it's not only responsible for the team and the fans but for the players too! 

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, Dont Stop Billeiving said:

 

Nice.  Much better than looking for reasons to yell at each other!

[Doc]

57 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

Dawkins contract came in today on Spotrac.

6 million jump in 2020 cap hit front loaded.

I like it!

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/dion-dawkins-21805/

 

Yeah, figured he got some new money this year, making it really a 5-year (and judging by the numbers on Spotrac) $59.631M deal, which is a little lower than I thought and puts him at 14th in the league.  Nice work BB!

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, figured he got some new money this year, making it really a 5-year (and judging by the numbers on Spotrac) $59.631M deal, which is a little lower than I thought and puts him at 14th in the league.  Nice work BB!

 

Definitely, and a nice job by Dion and his agent.  All these decent contracts need compromise and that seems like a good thing to me.