Duke back. CB King released.

[njbuff]

Duke might have a shot at making the roster, but don't be shocked if Isaiah McKenzie beats out Roberts for the return job.

[Patrick Duffy]

6 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Duke might have a shot at making the roster, but don't be shocked if Isaiah McKenzie beats out Roberts for the return job.

I think I would be shocked. Would hope they stay with Roberts, he did pretty well and don't have to worry to death over a muffed punt or KR

[C.Biscuit97]

We need a hall of fame of below average players this board has loved - Mike Jasper, Jeff Tuel, Brandon Reilly, etc

 

 

and I have zero problem with Duke competing for a spot.  But there must be reasons why he couldn’t make of impact last year.

[eball]

2 hours ago, njbuff said:

don't be shocked if Isaiah McKenzie beats out Roberts for the return job

 

Umm, this isn't going to happen.  Roberts is an All-Pro returner.

 

My prediction for the 53:

 

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

Roberts

McKenzie

 

Practice Squad:

 

Hodgins

Williams

Easley

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by eball

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

50 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We need a hall of fame of below average players this board has loved - Mike Jasper, Jeff Tuel, Brandon Reilly, etc

 

 

and I have zero problem with Duke competing for a spot.  But there must be reasons why he couldn’t make of impact last year.

Maybe call it Da’Hall?
 

 

[Mr. WEO]

22 hours ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

I disagree about Hodkins having any higher upside or a leg up on Duke. Teams cut 6th rounders all the time. His college resume didn't seem to light up any other teams draft board. Williams overcame huge obstacles to get on the field and produced in a small sample size. If they dump Duke , guaranteed he's playing on another roster opening day. 

 

Huh?

[GunnerBill]

48 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Umm, this isn't going to happen.  Roberts is an All-Pro returner.

 

My prediction for the 53:

 

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

Roberts

McKenzie

 

Practice Squad:

 

Hodgins

Williams

Easley

 

 

 

This is what I think too..... though a chance either Hodgins or Williams gets pinched by someone else for the bottom end of their 53. 

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Huh?

 

He overcame his lack of NFL ability to get on the field.... so I suppose that's something....

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

This is what I think too..... though a chance either Hodgins or Williams gets pinched by someone else for the bottom end of their 53. 

 

He overcame his lack of NFL ability to get on the field.... so I suppose that's something....

 

 

Exactly.  

 

These Duke Williams takes......

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Umm, this isn't going to happen.  Roberts is an All-Pro returner.

 

My prediction for the 53:

 

Diggs

Brown

Beasley

Davis

Roberts

McKenzie

 

Practice Squad:

 

Hodgins

Williams

Easley

 

 

Right.  I will be VERY surprised if Robert's doesn't make it.  

 

I dont think McKenzie makes it.  He just isn't an NFL receiver, and Diggs (and Roberts) will take his jet sweep touches. 

 

McKenzie isnt a major contributor, a leader or a guy with much upside, so he is at risk.  Similar things can be said about Duke, which is why he is at risk, too.  

 

So I think there's an open spot for one more. 

 

 

1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We need a hall of fame of below average players this board has loved - Mike Jasper, Jeff Tuel, Brandon Reilly, 

This is great.  There are plenty.

 

One reason we believe in those guys is that Jason Peter's was one, too.  A project with a back story.  

[C.Biscuit97]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Right.  I will be VERY surprised if Robert's doesn't make it.  

 

I dont think McKenzie makes it.  He just isn't an NFL receiver, and Diggs (and Roberts) will take his jet sweep touches. 

 

McKenzie isnt a major contributor, a leader or a guy with much upside, so he is at risk.  Similar things can be said about Duke, which is why he is at risk, too.  

 

So I think there's an open spot for one more. 

 

 

This is great.  There are plenty.

 

One reason we believe in those guys is that Jason Peter's was one, too.  A project with a back story.  

Oh for sure, I’m happy for underdogs making the nfl.  It’s awesome.  But some people completely overrate how much preseason games actually mean.  Tuel had a scoring drive in a preseason game and people were debating if he was a potential franchise qb haha.

 

but it does suck for those end of the roster guys.  It’s going to be really hard for them to beat out established players.

[eball]

11 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Right.  I will be VERY surprised if Robert's doesn't make it.  

 

I dont think McKenzie makes it.  He just isn't an NFL receiver, and Diggs (and Roberts) will take his jet sweep touches. 

 

McKenzie isnt a major contributor, a leader or a guy with much upside, so he is at risk.  Similar things can be said about Duke, which is why he is at risk, too.  

 

So I think there's an open spot for one more. 

 

 

I may be in the minority, but I think McKenzie is underrated by many.  Sure hands, quick as a rabbit, and knows the offense.  He's much more dependable than Duke, for example.  If you put him in as the 4th WR and start doing things with motion you can put a lot of speed out there and pressure the defense.  Just my $.02...

[Jauronimo]

21 hours ago, eball said:

He was the only guy on the roster supposedly capable of making contested catches, and then he really let the team down in Houston. 

That's where I'm at with Duke.  His whole value proposition is supposed to be strong hands, makes contested catches.  We know he isn't getting separation at the NFL level, he isn't a threat to run after the catch, and he didn't come down with the ball when it mattered in Houston.  I don't know if theres a spot for a guy who didn't squeeze the ball when it mattered. 

 

Hodgins is supposed to have amazing hands, similar height, and not be quite as slow as Duke.  It will be tough for him to make the team in my opinion.

[Jauronimo]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

We need a hall of fame of below average players this board has loved - Mike Jasper, Jeff Tuel, Brandon Reilly, etc

 

 

and I have zero problem with Duke competing for a spot.  But there must be reasons why he couldn’t make of impact last year.

There's one or two every year.  Christian Wade could be bigger than all of them.  Da'Rick is up there.  

[NoHuddleKelly12]

15 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

That's where I'm at with Duke.  His whole value proposition is supposed to be strong hands, makes contested catches.  We know he isn't getting separation at the NFL level, he isn't a threat to run after the catch, and he didn't come down with the ball when it mattered in Houston.  I don't know if theres a spot for a guy who didn't squeeze the ball when it mattered. 

 

Hodgins is supposed to have amazing hands, similar height, and not be quite as slow as Duke.  It will be tough for him to make the team in my opinion.

The mystique of the Duke has far outsized his actual contributions to the team, in part because his name just screams, "The Man" 

[Shaw66]

32 minutes ago, eball said:

 

I may be in the minority, but I think McKenzie is underrated by many.  Sure hands, quick as a rabbit, and knows the offense.  He's much more dependable than Duke, for example.  If you put him in as the 4th WR and start doing things with motion you can put a lot of speed out there and pressure the defense.  Just my $.02...

I think he catches the ball against his body most of time and he rarely makes tough catches. 

 

They will put Doggs in motion.  They won't need McKenzie in that role.  

[Jerome007]

Well we know the guy is mentally tough to be on the bubble, released, hired, put on the practice squad, activated, and on and on. Sure he only had one great game, but that's one more than most can say! And he blocks well so... why not. It's on him to keep his place now.

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

I may be in the minority, but I think McKenzie is underrated by many.  Sure hands, quick as a rabbit, and knows the offense.  He's much more dependable than Duke, for example.  If you put him in as the 4th WR and start doing things with motion you can put a lot of speed out there and pressure the defense.  Just my $.02...

Hard to say as a WR, but for end arounds and the like, he is fast!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, njbuff said:

Duke might have a shot at making the roster, but don't be shocked if Isaiah McKenzie beats out Roberts for the return job.

 

I would be totally shocked if Isaiah McKenzie beats out Roberts for the return job this off season.

 

As I recall, he lost the job in Denver and was upgraded by Roberts on the Bills because of fumbling issues on returns.  I don't know how you can assess whether or not those problems have been assessed in a limited training camp and with no preseason games.

 

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think he catches the ball against his body most of time and he rarely makes tough catches. 

 

They will put Doggs in motion.  They won't need McKenzie in that role.  

 

Assume you mean Diggs.   Diggs is the Man, no doubt, but they need someone who can substitute in case Diggs goes on the Covid Reserve list or is injured.

[eball]

So in another thread it's being reported that John Brown has already praised Davis and Hodgins for knowing the playbook "better than some veterans."

 

Duke, your days are numbered.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Assume you mean Diggs.   Diggs is the Man, no doubt, but they need someone who can substitute in case Diggs goes on the Covid Reserve list or is injured.

Yeah, Diggs.  

 

Yes, you plan for subs, but at some point it's next man up.  

 

And carrying McKenzie to run the ball maybe 15 times a year just in case Diggs goes down is a pretty limited use of a roster spot.  And it's enhanced only a little bit if you're all so carrying him to return punts in case Roberts goes down.  Carrying a guy for those purposes is a luxury, especially because Roberts can back up Diggs in the jet sweep department, and Hyde and others can back up Roberts on the punts.  

 

In other words, although McKenzie is something of a gadget player, there's nothing that he does that is so special or so valuable that gives him an advantage.  I think he's more a young guy who makes himself as useful as he can while you see if he develops.  But we've seen him for a couple of years now, and he doesn't give much evidence that he's developing into a particularly useful player.  

 

Now, that's my take.  McDermott may think that his versatility is itself so useful that he wants to keep him.  And I also don't know how much they value his special teams contribution.  

 

What I do know is that whenever I see him on the field, I feel like the Bills are weaker.  Particularly how he fields punts. 

[Rocky Landing]

5 hours ago, eball said:

 

I may be in the minority, but I think McKenzie is underrated by many.  Sure hands, quick as a rabbit, and knows the offense.  He's much more dependable than Duke, for example.  If you put him in as the 4th WR and start doing things with motion you can put a lot of speed out there and pressure the defense.  Just my $.02...

I think the value of McK is his versatility. They've played him all over the field at WR, including all the gadget plays. They've used him as a RB, as a kick returner, and even put him in at CB in a pinch. I think his issue this season, and why I think he's vulnerable, is if you take away the gadget plays, he's really not a great WR. Diggs did all those gadget plays in Minnesota, and he did them better. I wouldn't be surprised if they put McK protected on the PS, in case Diggs goes down, so they wouldn't have to limit Daboll's playbook. He does love those gadgets.

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Rocky Landing

[Freddie's Dead]

On 8/9/2020 at 9:02 PM, GoBills808 said:

4 catches on 10 targets for 49 yards is stepping up big time?

 

He was the 3rd leading receiver, only one yard less than Smoke on the same number of catches.  Considering he was inactive most of the season, yes, I do call that stepping up big time.  

Edited August 11, 2020 by Freddie's Dead

[Hampton Josh fan]

On 8/9/2020 at 11:49 AM, Chandler#81 said:

I’m done with Duke, personally. I certainly bought in on the big WR who squandered early opportunities then led the CFL in catches & yards. Mostly, I suppose, because it was a glaring need. But Sean seeing serious liabilities in his route running, crippling drops at inopportune times and no noticeable improvement coupled with fantastic upgrades at the position, make him expendable. jmo.

Bills are deep at wr so 3 or 4 guys could compete for a roster spot. To me you're dismissing Duke after a rookie season that would have been judged more positively if he was a 3rd or 4th round pick. He got big game experience and developed a trust with JA. He had some drops, but so did Knox, along with a bunch of crucial whiffs on blocks. To me Roberts and Mackenzie are redundant and one should leave, preferably Roberts. I see Duke as the 6th guy, wi

 

 

 

[Chandler#81]

46 minutes ago, Hampton Josh fan said:

Bills are deep at wr so 3 or 4 guys could compete for a roster spot. To me you're dismissing Duke after a rookie season that would have been judged more positively if he was a 3rd or 4th round pick. He got big game experience and developed a trust with JA. He had some drops, but so did Knox, along with a bunch of crucial whiffs on blocks. To me Roberts and Mackenzie are redundant and one should leave, preferably Roberts. I see Duke as the 6th guy, wi

 

 

 

He wasn’t a rookie last year. 

[eball]

4 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

He wasn’t a rookie last year. 

 

By a long shot...he's older than Stefon Diggs!  

[Rocky Landing]

31 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

He wasn’t a rookie last year. 

I understand your perception of Duke-- if he was decent, why wasn't he active more? Why did it take so long to get onto an NFL field? But, an equally accurate perception sees a guy who had a serious crash in his senior year of college that knocked him out of the draft, then UDFA on the Rams PS, then a year as an average player in the CFL, followed by a year in which he led the CFL in receptions, followed by PS for the Bills, followed by a promotion to the 53, but mostly inactive, followed by activation, followed by being a go-to guy in the playoffs. Throughout that, he showed real playmaking ability with a large catch-radius, and a knack for contested catches (one apparently unforgivable drop notwithstanding). That reads like an upward trajectory to me, so I don't think he should be so easily dismissed.

[Hampton Josh fan]

50 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

He wasn’t a rookie last year. 

He spent time in the CFL , but was a rookie in the NFL last season. Now wouldn't you think it's beneficial for a 1st year player to have great success in another professional football league ala Flutie, Moon and Joe Kapp.