The Dolphins QB situation

[BarleyNY]

3 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

With the more difficult schedule, the same number of wins might be progress.

That’s reasonable.

[The Frankish Reich]

18 hours ago, gregor7777 said:

Fitz doesn't regress. He just is. Forever. Infinite. 

 

5-7 wins this year.

Correct. He is actually better at 36-37 than he was in his Bills years (27-30), but not enough better that it matters. I feel kinda sorry for him because I love the guy. He is always an upgrade over the Trent Edwards/Josh Rosen/Geno Smith/Jake Locker/Jameis Winston young QBs he beats out, but his high risk-high reward style of play never allows him the chance to get one of those "good teams just a better QB away from being a contender" jobs that even a declining Philip Rivers got this year. So he's stuck in Fitzy purgatory, which is exactly where the Dolphins will be unless Tua gets ready in a hurry.

Edited June 2, 2020 by The Frankish Reich

[Halloween Land]

Is this a Dolphins message board or a Bills message board? 

[ColoradoBills]

I would imagine that the Dolphins want to start Fitz for at least the first 6 games (4 road/2 home).

After that they can evaluate where they are record wise and where Tua is at in his development.

Their 7th game is at home against the Chargers. 

[Mr. WEO]

Reverts to noodle arm?

 

These were his yards last 5 games of the 2019 season: 365, 245, 279, 419, 320.  10 TDs.  3-2 on a team that everyone here proclaimed was tanking.  He got more potent as the season went on.

 

In 2018, in 8 starts, he had 4 games over 400 yards.

43 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Correct. He is actually better at 36-37 than he was in his Bills years (27-30), but not enough better that it matters. I feel kinda sorry for him because I love the guy. He is always an upgrade over the Trent Edwards/Josh Rosen/Geno Smith/Jake Locker/Jameis Winston young QBs he beats out, but his high risk-high reward style of play never allows him the chance to get one of those "good teams just a better QB away from being a contender" jobs that even a declining Philip Rivers got this year. So he's stuck in Fitzy purgatory, which is exactly where the Dolphins will be unless Tua gets ready in a hurry.

 

Great point--Favre had a similar (but more aggressive) style, but, since he mostly played on far better teams, no one cared that he was the INT king. 

[billsfan89]

Fitz is Fitz and I think that they have no interest in playing Tua year one. For one I think that they want to make sure he is healthy and I think they want to get him a year in the system before forcing him out there. But while I feel the Fins have improved their defense and have decent offensive pieces having a substandard QB is going to keep them from getting above the 7-8 win range. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, billsfan89 said:

Fitz is Fitz and I think that they have no interest in playing Tua year one. For one I think that they want to make sure he is healthy and I think they want to get him a year in the system before forcing him out there. But while I feel the Fins have improved their defense and have decent offensive pieces having a substandard QB is going to keep them from getting above the 7-8 win range. 

 

I mean - the condensed offseason is a big challenge.  Going from Jeudy, Ruggs, Smith to Parker, hurns, williams... is a major challenge.  The offensive line in Miami isn't particularly strong either.  Not sure i love Chan there either, his offenses always have too many turnovers... (he also has fitz...).

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, dneveu said:

 

I mean - the condensed offseason is a big challenge.  Going from Jeudy, Ruggs, Smith to Parker, hurns, williams... is a major challenge.  The offensive line in Miami isn't particularly strong either.  Not sure i love Chan there either, his offenses always have too many turnovers... (he also has fitz...).

 

Miami has also made a lot of these big time splashes in free agency seemingly every 3-5 years and none of these big time off-seasons seem to result in anything more than a random wildcard birth here or there. I can't see this latest free agency spree resulting in long term success. Miami has about 55 million in space in 2021 (60 million if they cut Jordan Howard) so while they have some cap flexibility and have an extra draft capital I can't see them having another big spree in 2021 to fix the remaining holes on the roster. 

 

So overall I think the Dolphins hopes are going to have to stem from Tua being the real deal in 2021 and beyond as I don't see them having the longer term cap flexibility to add that much more to the roster via free agency. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

17 hours ago, FireChans said:

Lol I mean, come on.

 

Tua broke his hip and still went top 5. Fromm was healthy and went in the fifth round.

I know Tua went top 5.  But Fromm was way underdrafted as a 5th rounder.  Both guys played in the SEC.  And both played well.  The Alabama hype machine is omnipresent throughout the football world.  And the Alabama program does not even self promote.  The NFL and the media think that Alabama football players walk on water.  I live in the heart of Dixie.  Have watched SEC football for many years.  And CBS and ESPN LOVE Alabama and LSU.  Did you know that the Georgia Bulldogs also play in the SEC?  And they have a dam good program as well?  (I don't love them, my team is Michigan)  I am just saying that Jake Fromm is much better then most of the Bills fan and the local media are giving him credit for.  He will show that soon enuf.  

[Paup 1995MVP]

11 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I should watch more football...

 

TBD is the only place in the world where you are the idiot for thinking that a guy that is 40-24, coming off a year with 4,900 yards and a 3:1 TD to INT, is a pretty good QB. Apparently I’M the one that doesn’t know what I’m watching. 
 

People point to the one game that they watched Tua play as evidence that he can’t play ?. We don’t know what kind of career he will have but if you are questioning his accuracy or play fakes you haven’t watched him play. Now if you want to say, he will never stay healthy that’s a reasoned opinion. He may not. Tua has had some big injuries.

We all have our favorite flavor.  And I just don't love Prescott's game.  He lacks that electricity about him.  That it factor.  

 

As for Tua, he had a real good career at Alabama.  But in the South everyone has their team they love.  Just like everyone has their favorite Nascar driver.  The South is very different from the North.  (I have spent a lot of time in both)  Unless you love Alabama, you are not going to be singing Tua's praises.  Whole lot of Auburn fans in the Atlanta area.  Only 120 miles away.  I am taking a wait and see approach on how well he does in the pros is all.  He may be great, and he may be marginal.  Or somewhere on the spectrum in between.  Remember he had a great O line and some great WR's at Bama.  He will not have same in Miami.  I think comparing him to Brees is a bit much at this point.  And I don't think that Fromm is that much below him from a talent standpoint.  

[Augie]

5 hours ago, Halloween Land said:

Is this a Dolphins message board or a Bills message board? 

 

 

......it’s a thread started by a Jets fan, so I don’t know what to make of it. Can we bring in the Cheaters so we are all covered? 

[Mr. WEO]

34 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

I know Tua went top 5.  But Fromm was way underdrafted as a 5th rounder.  Both guys played in the SEC.  And both played well.  The Alabama hype machine is omnipresent throughout the football world.  And the Alabama program does not even self promote.  The NFL and the media think that Alabama football players walk on water.  I live in the heart of Dixie.  Have watched SEC football for many years.  And CBS and ESPN LOVE Alabama and LSU.  Did you know that the Georgia Bulldogs also play in the SEC?  And they have a dam good program as well?  (I don't love them, my team is Michigan)  I am just saying that Jake Fromm is much better then most of the Bills fan and the local media are giving him credit for.  He will show that soon enuf.  

 

 

Show what?--That he is the 3rd string QB?  It's not just the Bills fans and "local media"----the entire NFL, every team, didn't give him the credit you think he deserves....and they all watched him a lot more closely than you or any of us.

 

I don't think it took the Alabama/ESPN/CBS "hype machine" to show us all that Tua and Fromm are from different QB planets.

 

Burrow and LSU sat on Fromm's face last year...

 

[YoloinOhio]

5 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

 

......it’s a thread started by a Jets fan, so I don’t know what to make of it. Can we bring in the Cheaters so we are all covered? 

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

I know Tua went top 5.  But Fromm was way underdrafted as a 5th rounder.  Both guys played in the SEC.  And both played well.  The Alabama hype machine is omnipresent throughout the football world.  And the Alabama program does not even self promote.  The NFL and the media think that Alabama football players walk on water.  I live in the heart of Dixie.  Have watched SEC football for many years.  And CBS and ESPN LOVE Alabama and LSU.  Did you know that the Georgia Bulldogs also play in the SEC?  And they have a dam good program as well?  (I don't love them, my team is Michigan)  I am just saying that Jake Fromm is much better then most of the Bills fan and the local media are giving him credit for.  He will show that soon enuf.  

Yeah they love Alabama and LSU because they are good. They used to love Alabama and Georgia when they were good. Where was the LSU love 3 years ago? Bama is loved because they have been good for a decade. They haven’t lost more than 2 games since 2010! 

 

I like Jake Fromm. I think that playing against NFL talent in the SEC is probably the best preparation for the league. But don’t be foolish. He’s not anywhere close to Tua’s level and to even argue that is because of “Bama bias” is absurd.

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

We all have our favorite flavor.  And I just don't love Prescott's game.  He lacks that electricity about him.  That it factor.  

 

As for Tua, he had a real good career at Alabama.  But in the South everyone has their team they love.  Just like everyone has their favorite Nascar driver.  The South is very different from the North.  (I have spent a lot of time in both)  Unless you love Alabama, you are not going to be singing Tua's praises.  Whole lot of Auburn fans in the Atlanta area.  Only 120 miles away.  I am taking a wait and see approach on how well he does in the pros is all.  He may be great, and he may be marginal.  Or somewhere on the spectrum in between.  Remember he had a great O line and some great WR's at Bama.  He will not have same in Miami.  I think comparing him to Brees is a bit much at this point.  And I don't think that Fromm is that much below him from a talent standpoint.  

I DESPISE Alabama. If anything I’m harder on them than I should be. I do agree that he had elite skill players. He may have 4 1st round WRs and a 1st round RB. He has OL too that went early. He’s surrounded by elite players. He is elite too. Tua has MAJOR health issues though. I’m not comparing him to Brees I’m saying that they have the EXACT same strengths coming out. They are accurate and good with the ball.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Kirby Jackson

[Billl]

6 hours ago, Halloween Land said:

Is this a Dolphins message board or a Bills message board? 

Yes

 

4 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Is it May or October?

No

[JetsFan20]

1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I DESPISE Alabama. If anything I’m harder on them than I should be. I do agree that he had elite skill players. He may have 4 1st round WRs and. A 1st round RB. He has OL too that went early. He’s surrounded by elite players. He is too thorough. He has MAJOR health issue though. I’m not comparing him to Brees I’m saying that they have the EXACT same strengths coming out. They are accurate and good with the ball.

Drew Brees came out of college 20 years ago and turned into one of the greatest QBs of all time 5 years into his career.

 

Its unbelievable that every year any QB 6 ft 1 or under is deemed the next Drew Brees. 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

Drew Brees came out of college 20 years ago and turned into one of the greatest QBs of all time 5 years into his career.

 

Its unbelievable that every year any QB 6 ft 1 or under is deemed the next Drew Brees. 

I live in New Orleans and have seen just about every snap since he’s been here. I’ve seen probably 10-12 Tua starts as well. It the way that they run play action and how accurate they are. This isn’t a based on size. It’s based on what they do well. Tua is a poor man’s Brees at this point.

[JetsFan20]

14 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I live in New Orleans and have seen just about every snap since he’s been here. I’ve seen probably 10-12 Tua starts as well. It the way that they run play action and how accurate they are. This isn’t a based on size. It’s based on what they do well. Tua is a poor man’s Brees at this point.

And what do you remember about Drew Brees running Joe Tillers offense at Purdue?

[Kirby Jackson]

9 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

And what do you remember about Drew Brees running Joe Tillers offense at Purdue?

Breaking every Big 10 record? I’m not sure your point? If it’s that I don’t appreciate Brees you’re talking to the wrong guy. Tua’s strengths are the same as Brees.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Breaking every Big 10 record? I’m not sure your point? If it’s that I don’t appreciate Brees you’re talking to the wrong guy. Tua’s strengths are the same as Brees.

 

....and that scares me. 

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

....and that scares me. 

He has a long way to go to be Brees (obviously). Their strengths are the exact same though.

[JetsFan20]

36 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Breaking every Big 10 record? I’m not sure your point? If it’s that I don’t appreciate Brees you’re talking to the wrong guy. Tua’s strengths are the same as Brees.

Obviously you didn’t know that Drew Brees was essentially one of the first QBs to come into the NFL from a spread offense. The offense he ran at Purdue was nothing like the one Tua ran at Alabama.  

[Kirby Jackson]

17 minutes ago, JetsFan20 said:

Obviously you didn’t know that Drew Brees was essentially one of the first QBs to come into the NFL from a spread offense. The offense he ran at Purdue was nothing like the one Tua ran at Alabama.  

Ha ha, you’re talking to the wrong guy “obviously.” I know who Brees is and what Brees did. I know who Tua is and what he did. Their strengths are the same. They are incredibly accurate and are great with the ball. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

On 6/2/2020 at 7:15 AM, Blokestradamus said:

 

Ta-dahhhhhhh!

 

That's about right.  

 

Play well, get paid, suck enough to get benched, replace the other guy because he couldn't do it either. 

rinse and repeat 

 

[Paup 1995MVP]

16 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I DESPISE Alabama. If anything I’m harder on them than I should be. I do agree that he had elite skill players. He may have 4 1st round WRs and a 1st round RB. He has OL too that went early. He’s surrounded by elite players. He is elite too. Tua has MAJOR health issues though. I’m not comparing him to Brees I’m saying that they have the EXACT same strengths coming out. They are accurate and good with the ball.

I actually am a fairly big Roll Tide fan.  If you can root for Alabama and Auburn to a degree that is me.  ( I put my ex girlfriend's daughter thru Auburn, so I had to show some loyalty to them.  Great place to watch a game.  Went to the Auburn-Georgia game in 2013 when Auburn won on the Hail Mary in the last 30 seconds.  But always have liked the Tide to some degree)  And I do like Tua, and can respect his ability.  I just don't like all the hype that is given to any player before he steps on an NFL field.  I think that needs to be earned.    

17 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Show what?--That he is the 3rd string QB?  It's not just the Bills fans and "local media"----the entire NFL, every team, didn't give him the credit you think he deserves....and they all watched him a lot more closely than you or any of us.

 

I don't think it took the Alabama/ESPN/CBS "hype machine" to show us all that Tua and Fromm are from different QB planets.

 

Burrow and LSU sat on Fromm's face last year...

 

Keep yapping Weo.  Fromm has way more ability then Barkley.  Don't even go there.  The lack of respect Jake Fromm has gotten from many is ridiculous.  The boy can play.  Did you watch the Sugar Bowl against Baylor?  Not too shabby there.  He could be our starter at some point in the future.  (Of course, I hope that Josh Allen lights it up for many years)  Just saying.  There was a QB drafted out of Michigan about 20 years ago in the sixth round.  Pretty much was an afterthought around the league.  He wasn't an afterthought for long was he?!!

[Paup 1995MVP]

16 hours ago, FireChans said:

Yeah they love Alabama and LSU because they are good. They used to love Alabama and Georgia when they were good. Where was the LSU love 3 years ago? Bama is loved because they have been good for a decade. They haven’t lost more than 2 games since 2010! 

 

I like Jake Fromm. I think that playing against NFL talent in the SEC is probably the best preparation for the league. But don’t be foolish. He’s not anywhere close to Tua’s level and to even argue that is because of “Bama bias” is absurd.

Don't sleep on Fromm.  Georgia has been a much better program then you are giving them credit for.  And yes Bama has dominated for a long time.  The only team that has been on their level for any length of time has been Clemson with Ohio State a small notch below.  (And being a Michigan man, that kills me to say that.  Although I love Chris Spielman.  He is what football in my opinion is all about)

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

I actually am a fairly big Roll Tide fan.  If you can root for Alabama and Auburn to a degree that is me.  ( I put my ex girlfriend's daughter thru Auburn, so I had to show some loyalty to them.  Great place to watch a game.  Went to the Auburn-Georgia game in 2013 when Auburn won on the Hail Mary in the last 30 seconds.  But always have liked the Tide to some degree)  And I do like Tua, and can respect his ability.  I just don't like all the hype that is given to any player before he steps on an NFL field.  I think that needs to be earned.    

Keep yapping Weo.  Fromm has way more ability then Barkley.  Don't even go there.  The lack of respect Jake Fromm has gotten from many is ridiculous.  The boy can play.  Did you watch the Sugar Bowl against Baylor?  Not too shabby there.  He could be our starter at some point in the future.  (Of course, I hope that Josh Allen lights it up for many years)  Just saying.  There was a QB drafted out of Michigan about 20 years ago in the sixth round.  Pretty much was an afterthought around the league.  He wasn't an afterthought for long was he?!!

 

OK, maybe Fromm beats out Barkley as the #2.  It really won't take much because Barkley has been a zero in the NFL.  

 

You don't have to tell me whether Fromm "can play" or not (it doesn't matter because we are all hoping he never has to for the Bills), go yell at all the NFL FO's about  how they just passed on yet another "the next Tom Brady".

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Don't sleep on Fromm.  Georgia has been a much better program then you are giving them credit for.  And yes Bama has dominated for a long time.  The only team that has been on their level for any length of time has been Clemson with Ohio State a small notch below.  (And being a Michigan man, that kills me to say that.  Although I love Chris Spielman.  He is what football in my opinion is all about)

Georgia may lead CFB in playoff losses. 

 

Georgia is a good program. They aren’t as good as Alabama. Part of that is their QB hasn’t been as good the last 2 years.

[Billl]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

OK, maybe Fromm beats out Barkley as the #2.  It really won't take much because Barkley has been a zero in the NFL.  

 

You don't have to tell me whether Fromm "can play" or not (it doesn't matter because we are all hoping he never has to for the Bills), go yell at all the NFL FO's about  how they just passed on yet another "the next Tom Brady".

Every late round QB is the next Tom Brady.  Every QB who struggles for his first few years is the next Drew Brees.  Unless they’re not on your team.  Then every QB who gets off to a hot start is RGIII.

[Kirby Jackson]

17 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Georgia may lead CFB in playoff losses. 

 

Georgia is a good program. They aren’t as good as Alabama. Part of that is their QB hasn’t been as good the last 2 years.

Oklahoma has entered the chat

[BarleyNY]

14 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Good thing that "breaking" is a large part of Tua's weaknesses. Availability is a key factor.

It’s worth noting that Brees played his senior season with a torn muscle in his back.  A young (at the time) engineer I used to work with told me about it.  His g/f whom he later married was one of Brees’ trainers at Purdue.  Apparently it was a huge issue for him that season and it prevented him from throwing naturally.

 

IMO injury risk is by far the biggest reason to worry about Tua’s success in the NFL.  I agree with you on that.  But it’s actually a bit of a parallel with Brees rather than a big difference. 

[Paup 1995MVP]

21 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

OK, maybe Fromm beats out Barkley as the #2.  It really won't take much because Barkley has been a zero in the NFL.  

 

You don't have to tell me whether Fromm "can play" or not (it doesn't matter because we are all hoping he never has to for the Bills), go yell at all the NFL FO's about  how they just passed on yet another "the next Tom Brady".

Agreed.  Lets hope Josh Allen is as good as we all hope and think he will be starting this season.  I am excited!! 

21 hours ago, Billl said:

Every late round QB is the next Tom Brady.  Every QB who struggles for his first few years is the next Drew Brees.  Unless they’re not on your team.  Then every QB who gets off to a hot start is RGIII.

RGlll.  Haven't heard that name in a long while.  Talk about a guy who started real hot, and then had a meteoric fall.  Success can be fleeting.  That's why the great ones are the ones who do it for a long time.  Year after year.   

[YoloinOhio]

Joe Marino on his podcast the last 2 days ranked the AFCE QBs and RBs. He had Miami #1 in each category. Just one perspective. 

 

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Joe Marino on his podcast the last 2 days ranked the AFCE QBs and RBs. He had Miami #1 in each category. Just one perspective. 

 

How. Is. That. Possible.

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

How. Is. That. Possible.

QB I sorta get because these dudes had fallen in love with Tua years ago. I don’t agree with it but with some big IF’s, I get it.

 

RB makes no sense. I like Breida. But Ballage was brutal.

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, FireChans said:

QB I sorta get because these dudes had fallen in love with Tua years ago. I don’t agree with it but with some big IF’s, I get it.

 

RB makes no sense. I like Breida. But Ballage was brutal.

I can’t abide giving a QB with zero NFL starts and a potentially bum hip the nod over two up and coming youngsters.

 

And I think putting anyone above LeVeon Bell is crazy, but if anyone goes there it probably ought to be the guy that averaged 5.1 YPC as a rookie.

[YoloinOhio]

12 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I can’t abide giving a QB with zero NFL starts and a potentially bum hip the nod over two up and coming youngsters.

 

And I think putting anyone above LeVeon Bell is crazy, but if anyone goes there it probably ought to be the guy that averaged 5.1 YPC as a rookie.

He had Jets in last in RB rankings fwiw

Edited June 5, 2020 by YoloinOhio

[Chicken Boo]

Fitz has a lot of weapons on offense and he's back with Gailey.  Miami is going to be a tough out, I think. 

[Bobby Hooks]

Fitz will have his good games and his bad games like always. I expect he’ll have one particular bad game and  Tua will get his shot by week six.  

 

Honestly, I’d prefer to play against Tua. Fitz always seems to bring his A game against us. 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Bobby Hooks