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Dkollidas

Is Big Nickel “Need” overblown?

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As a subscriber to the Athletic, I’ve read SOOOOOOOO many articles and listened to SOOOOOOOO many podcasts from Buscaglia & Fairburn about our “need” for a big nickel. I understand what their premise is. At the same time I don’t see the crazy need for it. 
 

In my view, Siran Neal showed up more and more as the season went on last year. He was definitely a project when they drafted him and I believe he can help fill that role.

 

Jaquan Johnson is also another possibility to fill that role. He doesn’t have much tape but the finale against the Jets he was all over the field, and I believe he could become a bigger part of the defense this season.

 

Dean Marlowe, while not a great player, has filled in sufficiently there. 
 

There’s also have Hyde and Poyer who can Step up and handle that role as well if needed situationally. 

 

I also believe they were looking at Dugger & Chinn in case they were unable to come to an agreement with Poyer, but they since have extended him and are set at safety. 
 

I believe the bigger question when looking at a player like Dugger is if he can replace Milano. If they believe he can, then I’m all for it. But I also listen to a lot of Joe Marino (who I trust more than Buscaglia or Fairburn) basically said Dugger hasn’t really shown on tape he can do what they would be looking for in a “Big Nickel”.  
 

I just don’t see the desire to use 54 for a guy who will play 1-2 years situationally and has to make a big step up from DII, who is also already 24yrs old. 
 

 

Edited by Dkollidas

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It's not a need, it's an opportunity. 

 

In a Conference where 1 of the best 2 teams has a great TE and the other a running QB then having a big nickel gives more options 

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Nobody ever considers the Canadian exchange rate on big nickels...  truly unfortunate.

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It seems to me that they use Edumonds and Milano to cover RB's and TE's and it works. I think "Big Nickel" is a niche that can be filled by quality coverage LB's. Even in that niche I think the Bills have players that can fill it. 

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3 minutes ago, Mountain Man said:

It's not a need, it's an opportunity. 

 

In a Conference where 1 of the best 2 teams has a great TE and the other a running QB then having a big nickel gives more options 

Agreed.  While we don’t “need” it we could certainly upgrade.

 

That’s pretty much where our team is at this point.  We don’t “need” anything but we could stand to upgrade a few positions.


neal played fine.  Until he let Watson end our season.  Someone like Dugger or Chinn could take this D to another level in that position. 
 

having depth and players that can move around is very important for to this regime.

 

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I am really pulling for us to draft Antoine Winfield Jr., because it would be awesome to have AW's son. From what I read, he seems like a guy that can shift between safety and being a "big nickel."  I don't think he is big, but from what I read, he tackles like dad (and we used to match AW up against guys like Tony Gonzalez back in the day).

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Every single need for this team is overblown. We're pretty good post free agency and trades. Anything else is just cake.

 

Obviously it would be nice to upgrade a few positions, but not necessary. There's not a single position that is preventing this team from being a contender unless Josh Allen doesn't continue to progress.

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Siran Neal has some serious explosion on the field, I had no idea he was so fast. Guy really impressed me last season

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10 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Siran Neal has some serious explosion on the field, I had no idea he was so fast. Guy really impressed me last season

 

Agreed. To me we already have our big nickel with him. I dont see a massive need to be honest. 

 

We have far bigger needs

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Call me crazy, but I can't picture McBeane spending a Day 2 pick in the draft upgrading a positon (where we already have a decent player) that only plays around 20% of the snaps on defense.

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11 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

As a subscriber to the Athletic, I’ve read SOOOOOOOO many articles and listened to SOOOOOOOO many podcasts from Buscaglia & Fairburn about our “need” for a big nickel. I understand what their premise is. At the same time I don’t see the crazy need for it. 
 

In my view, Siran Neal showed up more and more as the season went on last year. He was definitely a project when they drafted him and I believe he can help fill that role.

 

Jaquan Johnson is also another possibility to fill that role. He doesn’t have much tape but the finale against the Jets he was all over the field, and I believe he could become a bigger part of the defense this season.

 

Dean Marlowe, while not a great player, has filled in sufficiently there. 
 

There’s also have Hyde and Poyer who can Step up and handle that role as well if needed situationally. 

 

I also believe they were looking at Dugger & Chinn in case they were unable to come to an agreement with Poyer, but they since have extended him and are set at safety. 
 

I believe the bigger question when looking at a player like Dugger is if he can replace Milano. If they believe he can, then I’m all for it. But I also listen to a lot of Joe Marino (who I trust more than Buscaglia or Fairburn) basically said Dugger hasn’t really shown on tape he can do what they would be looking for in a “Big Nickel”.  
 

I just don’t see the desire to use 54 for a guy who will play 1-2 years situationally and has to make a big step up from DII, who is also already 24yrs old. 
 

 

 

 

What you or I think about whether they need a guy like this is less important than what they think. And what they think is probably best indicated by the fact that very recently they became the first team in the league to hire a "Nickel Coach." It's huge for them.

 

Hyde and Poyer are already on the field when they bring in the big nickel. Siran Neal was OK at it but not good enough. And he's too small to really fit the role all that well. Both Chinn and Dugger are significantly bigger than Neal and yet also quite a bit more athletic. Jaquan Johnson is 5'10" 191. He' a safety or a CB, but the guy they're looking for ideally is a lot bigger than that. Marlowe is another smaller guy at 203. I'm not a huge measureables guy, but this site charts size with athletic ability. Take a look at what our guys look like when charted like this.

 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/dean-marlowe

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jaquan-johnson

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/siran-neal

 

Now take a look at Dugger and Chinn:

 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/jeremy-chinn

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/kyle-dugger

 

Measurables aren't everything, far from it. But these two are a different kind of beast from the guys we're going with presently. The Bills having visited Lenoir-Rhyne three times speaks to how important they think this is.

 

Not that that means they'll definitely go with either guy. But yeah, the Bills obviously think this is a need.

 

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As I said in another thread, it's about more than just having a need, you have to find the player too. If a Jajuan Johnson type is just as bad in coverage as a 3rd LB, you're actually losing there.


Delpit is the only one available that could come in and be that guy right away, to me. If we want to take a crack at Dugger in the 4th (I think his small school status will kill his draft prospects) then I'd be all for it, but I don't think you can say he's automatically your day 1 nickel LB starter. Sometimes it's better to not out-think the room...

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1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

Measurables aren't everything, far from it. But these two are a different kind of beast from the guys we're going with presently. The Bills having visited Lenoir-Rhyne three times speaks to how important they think this is.

 

Not that that means they'll definitely go with either guy. But yeah, the Bills obviously think this is a need.

 

I'd bet my house that they were scouting him as a potential 2021 replacement for Poyer before we extended him.

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Yes...it’s overblown. I haven’t heard anyone talk about this as much as Joe B and Fairburn. It’s gotten really annoying and I’d be pretty upset if we took a luxury over a more glaring need than RB or edge. 

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Big Nickel to me comes from having the right player more than scheme. Though looking at our roster I can see how having  another hammering safety to put on field we can run a lot of big nickel especially on second and 8 type situations 

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I think its overblown in the sense that both guys at the Athletic seem to think it has to be a safety.    As such, there is this belief the Bills have focused on trying to draft or sign someone specifically to fill this "Big Nickel" role, rather than the reality which is the Bills try very hard not to have a big plodding linebacker on the field in base sets because offenses use spread more often than not.  I also dont think the Big Nickel is this novel idea that is specific to the Bills defense.  So I dont think there is this dire need to go and get Kyle Dugger just because he looks like a fast tweener, he has to be able to fill other roles in the defense as well. 

 

I think the Athletic latched on to something from when McDermott was first hired and ran with it. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

This whole topic makes me wonder what Deone Buccanon is up to these days. 

Sitting around wondering why his career peaked at 25.

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