The China Problem

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

i have no issue with Asians immigrating here, beating our kids in school and then taking the best paying jobs and being part of our society and even leading it. They’ve earned it. They’ve worked for it. Their cultural focus on success is helpful toward our society. If that pisses off indigenous Americans teach your kids to work, and that the world is competitive. 

 

 

Well public schools don't teach that.  Neither is our society.

 

 

 

They are telling kids not to buy their stuff.   

 

But yea get off my lawn or something.

Edited April 28, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Well public schools don't teach that.  Neither is our society.

 

Stop asking the government to teach your kids values. You’re clearly an R so You should be ok with that. 
 

Capitalism is about competing, so compete. Your opponent is wiling to do anything you’ll do for 1/5 of the money..  better start running.

 

the hardest part about competing in this world is dragging the lazy and apathetic along for the ride. China avoids it, we have a political party wiling to subsidize or even encourage it to manifest power. 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Motorin']

12 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Stop asking the government to teach your kids values. You’re clearly an R so You should be ok with that. 
 

Capitalism is about competing, so compete. Your opponent is wiling to do anything you’ll do for 1/5 of the money..  better start running.

 

the hardest part about competing in this world is dragging the lazy and apathetic along for the ride. China avoids it, we have a political party wiling to subsidize or even encourage it to manifest power. 

 

Talk to me about China's banking system. Who owns their largest banks, how much revenue do they generate and how much assets do they hold?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Talk to me about China's banking system. Who owns their largest banks, how much revenue do they generate and how much assets do they hold?

You first. Educate us. 

I’ll add some bonus trivia...

 

Which foreign country owns the most of our  federal debts? Great exercise 

[Motorin']

5 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

You first. Educate us. 

I’ll add some bonus trivia...

 

Which foreign country owns the most of our  federal debts? Great exercise 

 

Our foreign debt, while not insignificant, pales in comparison to the total amount of debt held by US banks. US banks which are publicly traded and owned by a variety of stock holders, hedge funds and holding companies. And who have been granted authority by the US Congress to create US currency by loaning it into existence. 

 

China on the other hand owns all of it's banks, and therefore owns the trillions of dollars of assets and hundreds of billions of annual revenue. 

 

While we are approaching 60 Trillion total owed to US banks ( Federal, state and local governments, + private and corporate debt) all of China's domestic debt owed to Chinese banks becomes revenue of the nation.

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

Our foreign debt, while not insignificant, pales in comparison to the total amount of debt held by US banks. US banks which are publicly traded and owned by a variety of stock holders, hedge funds and holding companies. And who have been granted authority by the US Congress to create US currency by loaning it into existence. 

 

China on the other hand owns all of it's banks, and therefore owns the trillions of dollars of assets and hundreds of billions of annual revenue. 

 

While we are approaching 60 Trillion total owed to US banks ( Federal, state and local governments, + private and corporate debt) all of China's domestic debt owed to Chinese banks becomes revenue of the nation.

 

 

 

 

They’ve unleashed a government steered capitalism. Thats why they are dominating. They are hungry for every opportunity. 
 

anyone can rationalize their respective incredibly improbable rise in economic power, or consider they may have an edge, even if it’s philosophically uncomfortable.

[Motorin']

57 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

They’ve unleashed a government steered capitalism. Thats why they are dominating. They are hungry for every opportunity. 
 

anyone can rationalize their respective incredibly improbable rise in economic power, or consider they may have an edge, even if it’s philosophically uncomfortable.

 

Yeah, but not just government steered. The government owns many of the highest valued and highest performing corporations. And so the government has massive revenue as a result. 

 

It's state owned capitalism, which is not at all bloated, incomplete bureaucracy. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 minutes ago, Motorin' said:

 

The government owns many of the highest valued and highest performing corporations.

Yes my friend.... let’s go ahead and identify those now... please 

[LeviF]

9 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

i have no issue with Asians immigrating here, beating our kids in school and then taking the best paying jobs and being part of our society and even leading it. They’ve earned it. They’ve worked for it. Their cultural focus on success is helpful toward our society. If that pisses off indigenous Americans teach your kids to work, and that the world is competitive. 

Except they aren’t “being part of our society.” Do you really think Chinese nationals are coming away from universities with American values?

 

And the unis love them because they pay full sticker. They aren’t getting in purely on merit. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

7 hours ago, Motorin' said:

 

Yeah, but not just government steered. The government owns many of the highest valued and highest performing corporations. And so the government has massive revenue as a result. 

 

It's state owned capitalism, which is not at all bloated, incomplete bureaucracy. 

China's created a large number of rich oligarchs that have become billionaires because they are officials of the CCP so its another version of crony capitalism. 

 

But absent from the debate here is the understanding of the true motivation and intent for the US to create a formidable economic and growing military competitor.  Because that's what a series of US administrations over the past 40 years accomplished starting with the granting most-favored nation trade status to China and then encouraging businesses to move production to China and out of the U.S.  Mostly done under the absurd notion that they'll adopt of system of democracy through engagement.  So all this helped China grow and caused great harm to American businesses and cities and citizens in exchange for "every day low prices".  Lots of people in America consuming cheap stuff sitting at home on welfare and public assistance with no jobs and no prospects because the US government encouraged the shipment of their jobs to China.  And here we are today bitching about China's ambitions and the threat they pose when its our own fault by starting the process going in the first place.  "Reap what you sow", right?  

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

China's created a large number of rich oligarchs that have become billionaires because they are officials of the CCP so its another version of crony capitalism. 

 

But absent from the debate here is the understanding of the true motivation and intent for the US to create a formidable economic and growing military competitor.  Because that's what a series of US administrations over the past 40 years accomplished starting with the granting most-favored nation trade status to China and then encouraging businesses to move production to China and out of the U.S.  Mostly done under the absurd notion that they'll adopt of system of democracy through engagement.  So all this helped China grow and caused great harm to American businesses and cities and citizens in exchange for "every day low prices".  Lots of people in America consuming cheap stuff sitting at home on welfare and public assistance with no jobs and no prospects because the US government encouraged the shipment of their jobs to China.  And here we are today bitching about China's ambitions and the threat they pose when its our own fault by starting the process going in the first place.  "Reap what you sow", right?  

Our job situation is not that bad. I get rural America is suffering, but they need to get off their butts, get educated and go earn a living. 

 

People complained about working in factories, now they complain about not having simple, mindless factory jobs. Whatever! 

[All_Pro_Bills]

21 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Our job situation is not that bad. I get rural America is suffering, but they need to get off their butts, get educated and go earn a living. 

 

People complained about working in factories, now they complain about not having simple, mindless factory jobs. Whatever! 

What you said might be true but I've said the exact same thing about poor and uneducated inner city residents that for generations use public assistance as a career path but many here and elsewhere are blind to the similarities and comparisons. 

 

And did you ever work in a factory?  I did working for 6 years including my time in college to pay my bills so I understand the things people complain about.  If you did you should know too. 

 

But none of that addresses by key point which is the US created the "monster" that is now China under less than clear intentions.  .  

Edited April 28, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 hours ago, LeviF91 said:

Except they aren’t “being part of our society.” Do you really think Chinese nationals are coming away from universities with American values?

 

And the unis love them because they pay full sticker. They aren’t getting in purely on merit. 

I beg to differ. I live in a school cluster that’s 40% Asian. Our high school is consistently in the top 150 in the country. And our middle and elementary schools are highly rated too. Every technical  industry has a very disproportionate Asian representation. 

 

I’d say if they go to college, get high paying jobs or start businesses and help corporations or the economy grow and improve that’s all the American values I could hope for.

 

im not even sure what American values are. We have about 20% of the population that is violently and diametrically opposed to another 20% and the rest of us are hostages in the middle. 

[B-Man]

 

 

FREEDOM OF NAVIGATION: 

 

HMS Queen Elizabeth and her Carrier Strike Group will sail through the South China Sea despite Chinese warnings, it has been confirmed.

 

 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-carrier-strike-group-to-sail-through-south-china-sea/

[sherpa]

China claiming some bizarre sovereignty over the South China Sea is like claiming sovereignty over the moon.

International law and right of passage is clear, established with agreements and precedent, and indisputable. 

[Doc]

38 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

FREEDOM OF NAVIGATION: 

 

HMS Queen Elizabeth and her Carrier Strike Group will sail through the South China Sea despite Chinese warnings, it has been confirmed.

 

 

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/british-carrier-strike-group-to-sail-through-south-china-sea/

 

What's China going to do?  Unleash a deadly virus on the world?  Oh wait...

[ALF]

Global microchip shortage has China eyeing Taiwan

 

Some worry China may use military force to seize Taiwan and its microchip industry

 

"Whoever controls the design and production of these microchips, they'll set the course for the 21st century," said Martijn Rasser, a senior fellow at the Washington-based think tank Center for a New American Security. 

 

"By gaining control over Taiwan’s semiconductor industry, China would control the global market," Rasser said. "They would have access to the most advanced manufacturing capabilities and that is even more valuable than controlling the world's oil." 

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/global-microchip-shortage-has-china-eyeing-taiwan

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[BillStime]

7 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

Is this new? What did Trump do about it?

 

ENDORSE it?

[B-Man]

“I want to be very clear about something,” says Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

 

“Our purpose is not to contain China, to hold it back, to keep it down.

 

It is to uphold this rules-based order that China is posing a challenge to.”

[BillStime]

5 minutes ago, B-Man said:

“I want to be very clear about something,” says Secretary of State Antony Blinken.

 

“Our purpose is not to contain China, to hold it back, to keep it down.

 

It is to uphold this rules-based order that China is posing a challenge to.”

 

What did Trump do about it?

 

Xi "explained to Trump why he was basically building concentration camps in Xinjiang,"

 

The interpreter added that "Trump said that Xi should go ahead with building the camps, which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do"

 

Trump Says He Avoided Punishing China Over Uighur Camps to Protect Trade Talks

 

“Well, we were in the middle of a major trade deal,” the president said, supporting an account by his former national security adviser John R. Bolton.

[Doc]

Trump's not the President anymore.

[BillStime]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

Trump's not the President anymore.

 

This issue is not new. Trump ignored it.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, BillStime said:

This issue is not new. Trump ignored it.

 

Obama ignored a ton of stuff.  All we heard was "he's not President."

[SoCal Deek]

3 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

This issue is not new. Trump ignored it.

And Biden is doing what exactly? I’m assuming he wants to do the exact opposite of Trump on everything so instead of ignoring he’s....

Edited May 3, 2021 by SoCal Deek

[BillStime]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

And the guy is doing what exactly? I’m assuming he wants to do the exact opposite of Trump on everything so instead of ignoring he’s....

 

Certainly not endorse it like the former guy...

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, BillStime said:

 

Certainly not endorse it like the former guy...

 

 

Ugh! Once again, that’s what not to do...according to you. At some point you cannot just be anti-Trump! Or maybe he’s still living in your head. All of that peace and prosperity was a real bi&ch! 

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Ugh! Once again, that’s what not to do...according to you. At some point you cannot just be anti-Trump! Or maybe he’s still living in your head. All of that peace and prosperity was a real bi&ch! 

 

I know, its hard to admit hypocrisy.

 

Just more faux outrage...

 

[B-Man]

2 hours ago, BillStime said:

 

This issue is not new. Trump ignored it.

 

Keep trying to switch the point.

 

The CURRENT Secretary of State Antony Blinken stated that the CURRENT U.S./Biden Policy is,

 

Our purpose is not to contain China, to hold it back, to keep it down.

 

You won't address that, because you cannot.

 

Your Trump dodge is laughable, but expected

[BillStime]

1 minute ago, B-Man said:

 

Keep trying to switch the point.

 

The CURRENT Secretary of State Antony Blinken stated that the CURRENT U.S./Biden Policy is,

 

Our purpose is not to contain China, to hold it back, to keep it down.

 

You won't address that, because you cannot.

 

Your Trump dodge is laughable, but expected

Trump endorsed it - period.

 

You’re the only one dodging hypocrisy as usual 

[Doc]

53 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Trump endorsed it - period.

 

You’re the only one dodging hypocrisy as usual 

 

Yeah and you thought Trump was a Nazi.  What's Joey's excuse?

[B-Man]

 

 

 

[GaryPinC]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/internal-memo-to-beijing-chinas-competitive-advantage-against-america/ar-BB1gBoel?li=BBnbfcL

 

I'm not sure if this article is legit, but I do believe China intends to challenge and displace us on the world stage so this article is really interesting and I find it to offer some really prescient insights.

 

[BillStime]

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

On 5/11/2021 at 10:24 PM, GaryPinC said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/internal-memo-to-beijing-chinas-competitive-advantage-against-america/ar-BB1gBoel?li=BBnbfcL

 

I'm not sure if this article is legit, but I do believe China intends to challenge and displace us on the world stage so this article is really interesting and I find it to offer some really prescient insights.

 

What a spot on assessment of our current reality.  I guess the positive here is there is likely awareness that war will be unnecessary as we will simply continue to self destruct. 

[GaryPinC]

17 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

What a spot on assessment of our current reality.  I guess the positive here is there is likely awareness that war will be unnecessary as we will simply continue to self destruct. 

Agree, but I don't think it's legit.  I have a hard time believing an official document would so flippantly mention the Uyghers, for example.  A couple other parts struck me in the same manner.  Even so, we need to stop self polarizing and work on coming together to face this growing threat.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

18 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Agree, but I don't think it's legit.  I have a hard time believing an official document would so flippantly mention the Uyghers, for example.  A couple other parts struck me in the same manner.  Even so, we need to stop self polarizing and work on coming together to face this growing threat.

Yes it seems it is staged theater at second glance and it is the  National Review. I wonder what China is really thinking.... 

 

I still like to think we are so good at self inflicting the damage that they won’t need to formally destroy us. Just keep sucking out our wealth as we continue to fade to a secondary world power. 
 

The politicians have already taken so much power and the near 50/50 polarization they’ve gotten us to ensured they can manifest their power. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[GaryPinC]

19 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Yes it seems it is staged theater at second glance and it is the  National Review. I wonder what China is really thinking.... 

 

I still like to think we are so good at self inflicting the damage that they won’t need to formally destroy us. Just keep sucking out our wealth as we continue to fade to a secondary world power. 
 

The politicians have already taken so much power and the near 50/50 polarization they’ve gotten us to ensured they can manifest their power. 

Also, having an adversary pushes your country to be better.  But I think that autocratic ego would rather we cease to exist.  Especially after you look at an article like this:

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-inside-militarys-secret-undercover-army-1591881

 

Very frightening to me, plays right in to the deep state.  Plus, the Chinese are right there with our technology in this.

[All_Pro_Bills]

13 minutes ago, GaryPinC said:

Also, having an adversary pushes your country to be better.  But I think that autocratic ego would rather we cease to exist.  Especially after you look at an article like this:

https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-inside-militarys-secret-undercover-army-1591881

 

Very frightening to me, plays right in to the deep state.  Plus, the Chinese are right there with our technology in this.

I think defeating China can be more effectively achieved by enacting a more cooperative view of international relations than would be taking China on head-to-head in some competitive effort which would hopefully not include direct military conflict.  The problem I see is a very belligerent attitude in US foreign policy since around 9/11.  Rather than cooperation and mutual benefit US policy is based on sanctions, unilateral decisions, and expectations that every other country will fall in line and be obedient and compliant to US policy objectives.   The NordStream2 natural gas pipeline is an example.  Both the German government and business interests support the project to bring gas into Germany and Europe from Russia.  But because of US strategy to isolate Russia from Europe our "allies" are being forced to oppose the project and if not subject to sanctions.  In essence forcing Europeans to defer their interests to US interests. 

This do as we say or else policy is at the core of US foreign policy.  It is driving potential and current allies further away.  It is counterproductive to the task of taking on China in a competitive framework.  In order to be successful in "boxing in" China and imposing some level of control it is necessary to modify this approach and treat allies as partners.  Not as vassal states to rule over and dictate all terms and conditions of the relationship.

Sadly, I doubt anyone in Washington, in a position of power, in either major political party has either the vision or desire to make the changes necessary to make any of this happen.   

 

 

 

 

[B-Man]

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/microsoft-hit-chinese-hackers-biden-admin-wont-point-finger

 

 

BIDEN STANDS UP FOR CHINA: 

 

Microsoft says it was hit by Chinese hackers, but Biden administration won’t point finger.

 

Who could have seen this coming?