Go after Amari Cooper?

[Hardhatharry]

14 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

Is Cooper the right receiver? Is water really wet? What about sars or the flu?

 

 

I have no problem with her being your cousin.

Cooper has most drops since 2015... So no.

[Billl]

25 year old WR who has been to 4 Pro Bowls in 5 seasons?  No thanks.  He dropped 4 of the 119 passes thrown to him last year, and this list is whose who of bad receivers.

https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232

[thebandit27]

17 minutes ago, Hardhatharry said:

Cooper has most drops since 2015... So no.

He had fewer drops than 3 of his teammates last year.

[Thurman#1]

Here's an idea ... why don't we wait till Dallas says or indicates Cooper will reach free agency before we start stuff like this?

 

Because there's probably in the neighborhood of a 5 -20% chance he isn't with the Cowboys next year.

 

 

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

Here's an idea ... why don't we wait till Dallas says or indicates Cooper will reach free agency before we start stuff like this?

 

Because there's probably in the neighborhood of a 5 -20% chance he isn't with the Cowboys next year.

 

 

You spent 3 days trying to convince everyone that they were wrong about Marcell Dareus‘ cap savings if released.

 

I think it’s okay for folks to speculate about looming FAs.

[CSBill]

6 hours ago, Gugny said:

I'd love for them to bring Cooper in, personally.  Exponentially better than anyone on the roster.

 

meh, I don't see it. He's an above average guy who drops a lot of passes and disappears when needed most. I think the FA money could better spent elsewhere.

[Thurman#1]

4 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

You spent 3 days trying to convince everyone that they were wrong about Marcell Dareus‘ cap savings if released.

 

I think it’s okay for folks to speculate about looming FAs.

 

 

 

Looming FAs, yeah. FAs that are very unlikely to be FAs, less so. Do you really think Jerry Jones, a guy in love with the concept of triplets, is going to let his be broken up? If so, I guess we can agree to disagree, but Amari Cooper's free agency is less looming than barely perceptible except among dreamers, IMO. Hey, it'd be fascinating if it happened, but what's the likelihood?

 

And I was and am correct about the cap savings. It will never make sense to first add and then subtract the dead cap money. Doing so completely eliminates dead cap as a factor. And that doesn't make any sense. Dead cap absolutely is a factor when you're calculating the total cap impact of cutting a guy. I totally get that what I'm saying is counter-intuitive. On the surface of it, it seems wrong. But when you look at it in a deep and detailed way, it's correct.

 

Haven't had time to get back to that in a week as I do my student grades, but I will get back to it.

 

Sorry, I really shouldn't hijack the thread. I won't comment more on this here.

 

And I do appreciate your tone here, Bandit, very reasonable, even if I disagree. I hope mine here had the same feeling to it.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Thurman#1

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I doubt the Bills spend a huge amount of their cap on a WR after going after the position last season and in a draft year where there are plenty of solid options throughout, just my opinion. To me the main target will most likely be edge rusher, Corner opposite white. I'm not sure they will be high profile names and I'm cool with that. Possibly a RB also.

Edited February 25, 2020 by BuffaloBillsGospel

[Hardhatharry]

9 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

He had fewer drops than 3 of his teammates last year.

That is supposed to mean something? He had fewer drops then the other bad WRs on his team... So he isn't the worst on the Cowboys (for 1 season) is what you're saying lol

Edited February 25, 2020 by Hardhatharry

[ALF]

If they could sign FA  Austin Hooper  TE  and draft a good WR that would work.

[Chaos]

Signing Cooper as a free agent would have a pretty big cascade effect on the rest of the Bills off-season plans.  If the BPA on the board when the Bills pick happened to be a WR, the Bills could go overnight from having one of the weakest sets of WR's in the league to one of the strongest.   This would seemingly allow the Bills to definitively determine if the Allen can be a top 10 QB in terms of actual production.   

If the BPA is not a WR, then the Bills can would have no positions of huge need, and could truly take the BPA to improve the team.  In fact, the team is strong enough, the Bills could go BPA in every single round.  Playmaker is the only glaring need, and Cooper addresses that. 

[thebandit27]

2 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

That is supposed to mean something? He had fewer drops then the other bad WRs on his team... So he isn't the worst on the Cowboys (for 1 season) is what you're saying lol

No. Not even close.

 

He had the most targets on the team and the fewest drops; that means something.

 

He also had fewer drops than guys like John Brown, OBJ, Edelman, DK, Davante Adams, Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, Kenny Golladay, Stefon Diggs...should I keep going?

[BringBackOrton]

14 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

Drops per target would matter more as a stat. Dude sees 100+ targets per year. 

 

Yards per target would suggest that Cooper is doing okay in the drops category. Tenth in the NFL last year. 3rd in recievers with over 100 targets. That’s pretty elite.

 

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

No. Not even close.

 

He had the most targets on the team and the fewest drops; that means something.

 

He also had fewer drops than guys like John Brown, OBJ, Edelman, DK, Davante Adams, Mike Evans, Michael Thomas, Kenny Golladay, Stefon Diggs...should I keep going?

The Amari Cooper slander must end!

[thebandit27]

19 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

 

The Amari Cooper slander must end!

Like I said: I’m not stumping for Cooper; he had a 2019 that was nearly identical to John Brown’s statistical output. I just happen to think that criticism should be accurate.

 

Like if you want to say that you don’t want him here because we face NE twice per year and Gilmore takes his lunch money every time they play, then yeah, that’s valid.

[njbuff]

I think the Bills will attack every position in FA, except WR.

 

I think they will find cost effective FA's across the board like last year with one big ticket FA signee. I have no idea which position the Bills will spend the money on, but I certainly think that WR WILL NOT be one of them.

 

I think the Bills will draft 3 WR's from this draft. 

 

And remember, the Bills already have Brown, Beasley, and hopefully, a developing Knox. They just need someone to be a threat as a 4th option for the 2020 season while letting them develop further. The Bills didn't have a quality 4th option as a receiver and it crippled their passing offense in critical situations.

 

I don't think it is too much to ask from a rookie WR to contribute right away as a viable 4th option in 2020 for the Bills to be an incredibly productive offense.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Looming FAs, yeah. FAs that are very unlikely to be FAs, less so. Do you really think Jerry Jones, a guy in love with the concept of triplets, is going to let his be broken up? If so, I guess we can agree to disagree, but Amari Cooper's free agency is less looming than barely perceptible except among dreamers, IMO. Hey, it'd be fascinating if it happened, but what's the likelihood?

 

It's the off-season.  There are all sorts of threads about FA whose teams have outright stated they are unlikely to reach FA, as well as threads about trading for players whose teams have little motivation to trade them either in terms of roster or of cap impact.

 

If you don't find them valuable, just move along.  If you want to contribute, contribute. 

 

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

And I was and am correct about the cap savings. It will never make sense to first add and then subtract the dead cap money. Doing so completely eliminates dead cap as a factor. And that doesn't make any sense.

 

This was patiently explained to you by several of the best, most informed posters on the board - and myself as well.

How about you get back to it when you get your email response from Spotrac or Overthecap explaining it, otherwise it's a dead horse and I'm going to give it a decent burial.

 

19 hours ago, Billl said:

This place is bi-polar.  On the one hand, everyone wants to blame lack of offensive production on the WRs.  On the other hand, nobody wants to spend a high draft pick on one, nor do they want to sign a number 1 in FA.  Everyone wants the juice, but nobody thinks it's worth the squeeze.

 

It's possible that these are different groups of people, yes?   Different members have different opinions?  I mean, not everyone wants to blame lack of offensive production on WRs; Daboll and Allen are both frequently offered as targets, as  s McDermott's defensive-minded conservatism shutting things down when we're ahead.

 

Personally I would love for us to make a big play for Cooper but 1) I don't think he makes it to FA 2) if he does, I think he's made it pretty clear he doesn't want to play in B'lo.

[thebandit27]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Looming FAs, yeah. FAs that are very unlikely to be FAs, less so. Do you really think Jerry Jones, a guy in love with the concept of triplets, is going to let his be broken up? If so, I guess we can agree to disagree, but Amari Cooper's free agency is less looming than barely perceptible except among dreamers, IMO. Hey, it'd be fascinating if it happened, but what's the likelihood?

 

And I was and am correct about the cap savings. It will never make sense to first add and then subtract the dead cap money. Doing so completely eliminates dead cap as a factor. And that doesn't make any sense. Dead cap absolutely is a factor when you're calculating the total cap impact of cutting a guy. I totally get that what I'm saying is counter-intuitive. On the surface of it, it seems wrong. But when you look at it in a deep and detailed way, it's correct.

 

Haven't had time to get back to that in a week as I do my student grades, but I will get back to it.

 

Sorry, I really shouldn't hijack the thread. I won't comment more on this here.

 

And I do appreciate your tone here, Bandit, very reasonable, even if I disagree. I hope mine here had the same feeling to it.

Unless they get Dak signed before the franchise tag deadline, Cooper will hit the market.

 

And if they do get Dak signed, then they have to choose between Cooper and Byron Jones; it’s not exactly a lock.

 

[thebandit27]

58 minutes ago, njbuff said:

I think the Bills will attack every position in FA, except WR.

 

I think they will find cost effective FA's across the board like last year with one big ticket FA signee. I have no idea which position the Bills will spend the money on, but I certainly think that WR WILL NOT be one of them.

 

I think the Bills will draft 3 WR's from this draft. 

 

And remember, the Bills already have Brown, Beasley, and hopefully, a developing Knox. They just need someone to be a threat as a 4th option for the 2020 season while letting them develop further. The Bills didn't have a quality 4th option as a receiver and it crippled their passing offense in critical situations.

 

I don't think it is too much to ask from a rookie WR to contribute right away as a viable 4th option in 2020 for the Bills to be an incredibly productive offense.

Well, I hope that they swing for the fences at WR in FA, but if they don’t get their guy, and they can’t pull off a trade, then the “value” option I look at would be Demarcus Robinson from KC.

[Gugny]

3 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Well, I hope that they swing for the fences at WR in FA, but if they don’t get their guy, and they can’t pull off a trade, then the “value” option I look at would be Demarcus Robinson from KC.

 

I'm just so sick of the Bills settling while the truly good teams go out and get what they know they need.  Tired of shopping at the Dollar General when there's enough money to go to Saks.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, njbuff said:

I think the Bills will attack every position in FA, except WR.

 

I think the Bills will attack receiver in FA, but their acquisition will be a couple of WR and maybe a TE who are middle-of-the-pack and not on anyone's radar.

 

Quote

I think they will find cost effective FA's across the board like last year with one big ticket FA signee. I have no idea which position the Bills will spend the money on, but I certainly think that WR WILL NOT be one of them.

 

There may not even be one big-ticket FA signee - that's one straightforward interpretation of the "won't be players at the deep end of the pool" comment Beane made in his post-season presser and radio appearances.  I personally would like us to make a hard play for Hooper if he reaches FA, which he may because of the Falcon's cap.  But if we do go deep in the pool, I think it's far more likely to be for pass rusher than for WR.

 

Quote

I think the Bills will draft 3 WR's from this draft. 

 

I don't think so.  I think we have not yet given up on Duke Williams taking a step and possibly not on McKensie (we'll see if we tender him or not).  I think the Bills saw real progress from both of them during the season and feel as though they could see more.  Foster, I think, is quite likely gone but ST is his card as it may be for McCloud.

 

I also think as part of casting the Buffalo Bills as a "good place to go", Beane wants to cultivate the perception that if the Bills draft you or sign you as a UDFA, you have a real chance to make the team or the practice squad.  Given that we have Beasley, Brown, and Andre Roberts, that's not a lot of room for 3 drafted WR to have a real chance to compete, especially if we do want to see what Williams and McKensie do this off-season.

 

If I'm wrong about how they see Williams and McKensie, then there's more chance for your scenario.

 

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I'm just so sick of the Bills settling while the truly good teams go out and get what they know they need.  Tired of shopping at the Dollar General when there's enough money to go to Saks.

 

I understand your viewpoint, but Truth, the FA market at WR is thin this year and I think there's a good chance franchise tags make it thinner.  That's why I'd like to see the Bills make a full court press for Hooper or Henry.  The FA market at TE is better, and 3 quality TE are not too many.

 

19 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Unless they get Dak signed before the franchise tag deadline, Cooper will hit the market.

 

And if they do get Dak signed, then they have to choose between Cooper and Byron Jones; it’s not exactly a lock.

 

 

Aren't teams allowed to both franchise and transition tag a guy this year?

[gobills1212]

Little late and slow to the party....

But at least its an original idea right?!?!?

Edited February 25, 2020 by gobills1212

[thebandit27]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I think the Bills will attack receiver in FA, but their acquisition will be a couple of WR and maybe a TE who are middle-of-the-pack and not on anyone's radar.

 

 

There may not even be one big-ticket FA signee - that's one straightforward interpretation of the "won't be players at the deep end of the pool" comment Beane made in his post-season presser and radio appearances.  I personally would like us to make a hard play for Hooper if he reaches FA, which he may because of the Falcon's cap.  But if we do go deep in the pool, I think it's far more likely to be for pass rusher than for WR.

 

 

I don't think so.  I think we have not yet given up on Duke Williams taking a step and possibly not on McKensie (we'll see if we tender him or not).  I think the Bills saw real progress from both of them during the season and feel as though they could see more.  Foster, I think, is quite likely gone but ST is his card as it may be for McCloud.

 

I also think as part of casting the Buffalo Bills as a "good place to go", Beane wants to cultivate the perception that if the Bills draft you or sign you as a UDFA, you have a real chance to make the team or the practice squad.  Given that we have Beasley, Brown, and Andre Roberts, that's not a lot of room for 3 drafted WR to have a real chance to compete, especially if we do want to see what Williams and McKensie do this off-season.

 

If I'm wrong about how they see Williams and McKensie, then there's more chance for your scenario.

 

 

I understand your viewpoint, but Truth, the FA market at WR is thin this year and I think there's a good chance franchise tags make it thinner.  That's why I'd like to see the Bills make a full court press for Hooper or Henry.  The FA market at TE is better, and 3 quality TE are not too many.

 

 

Aren't teams allowed to both franchise and transition tag a guy this year?

Indeed...but $50M is an awful lot to commit to 2 players that can hold out with zero repercussions.

[Billl]

12 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I think we have not yet given up on Duke Williams taking a step

If a 27 year old with 12 career catches is factoring into the draft strategy, this franchise has serious issues.

[Gugny]

6 minutes ago, Billl said:

If a 27 year old with 12 career catches is factoring into the draft strategy, this franchise has serious issues.

 

He has 12 career catches because the coaching staff inexplicably had him inactive for the majority of the season, then even more inexplicably activated for the playoff game, then even more inexplicably made him a significant piece of the offensive (double entendre, there) game plan.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Billl said:

If a 27 year old with 12 career catches is factoring into the draft strategy, this franchise has serious issues.

 

Well, opinions can vary, but context, please: I was talking to a gent who suggested the Bills would use 3 of their 9 picks on WR this year.

Considering the Bills do have other needs, one would think at least 1 or 2 of those 3 WR picks would involve the Bills 5 (five) 6th and 5th round picks.

 

A player like Williams who has actually shown the ability to see the field on the active roster and make some plays absolutely should factor into the draft strategy vs. 5th and 6th round picks.  If you think otherwise, I respectfully suggest you may have an unrealistic impression of the chance a 5th or 6th round pick actually has to contribute meaningfully to an NFL roster.  For every Milano or Kittle, there are 7 who wash out and 2 who have a short term as an ST player and reserve.

[hjnick]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, opinions can vary, but context, please: I was talking to a gent who suggested the Bills would use 3 of their 9 picks on WR this year.

Considering the Bills do have other needs, one would think at least 1 or 2 of those 3 WR picks would involve the Bills 5 (five) 6th and 5th round picks.

 

A player like Williams who has actually shown the ability to see the field on the active roster and make some plays absolutely should factor into the draft strategy vs. 5th and 6th round picks.  If you think otherwise, I respectfully suggest you may have an unrealistic impression of the chance a 5th or 6th round pick actually has to contribute meaningfully to an NFL roster.  For every Milano or Kittle, there are 7 who wash out and 2 who have a short term as an ST player and reserve.

 

With such a deep WR talent pool this year, I have zero problem drafting 3 WR's.

 

After our top 2 WR's, all the rest are expendable IMO.

[LABILLBACKER]

Hard No on Cooper. Wanted him awhile ago but between his drops, Buffalo attitude and high asking price we'd be much better off drafting 2 guys early. I would spend the $ to go after Hunter Henry aggressively. A young dou of Henry & Knox would be amazing toward building a dynamic offense. Not a Hooper fan. And finally, I would give Duke more opportunities to really see what you have there? If it doesn't work out then you release him.

[Gugny]

23 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Hard No on Cooper. Wanted him awhile ago but between his drops, Buffalo attitude and high asking price we'd be much better off drafting 2 guys early. I would spend the $ to go after Hunter Henry aggressively. A young dou of Henry & Knox would be amazing toward building a dynamic offense. Not a Hooper fan. And finally, I would give Duke more opportunities to really see what you have there? If it doesn't work out then you release him.

 

You don't want Cooper because of drops, but you want Knox to be part of a dynamic duo?

[Hardhatharry]

Ok so no Cooper b.c he drops too many footballs. Next...

[LABILLBACKER]

2 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

You don't want Cooper because of drops, but you want Knox to be part of a dynamic duo?

You can't compare a one year rookie who dropped balls to a veteran who's done it throughout his career. If Fort Knox drops more balls next year then cut his ass. One year is hardly a trend.

[BuffaloBills1998]

4 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Hard No on Cooper. Wanted him awhile ago but between his drops, Buffalo attitude and high asking price we'd be much better off drafting 2 guys early. I would spend the $ to go after Hunter Henry aggressively. A young dou of Henry & Knox would be amazing toward building a dynamic offense. Not a Hooper fan. And finally, I would give Duke more opportunities to really see what you have there? If it doesn't work out then you release him.

Idk about Hunter Henry, he has a problem staying healthy. 

[stuvian]

Warm weather *****

[Wsam4031]

wouldn't mind him but he already said he doesn't wan tto play anywhere cold. There is almost no chance we get him short of way overpaying

[Hardhatharry]

3 minutes ago, Wsam4031 said:

wouldn't mind him but he already said he doesn't wan tto play anywhere cold. There is almost no chance we get him short of way overpaying

You don't want Amari "Most dropped passes since 2015" Cooper... Yea he would probably drop even more passes in the cold weather.

[BeastMaster]

31 minutes ago, Hardhatharry said:

 

There's a bunch of reasons why I want no part of Amari Cooper in Buffalo. A number have already been said, but i would like to elaborate. 

 

It's not just the cold weather thing...his numbers were pretty bad away from the comforts of his home stadium which is a dome BTW. He looked like he didn't even want to be on the field in a number of those games (Philly and NE). 

 

I personally believe that he's soft as far as NFL wideouts are concerned, and his pricetag is gonna be that of a top guy that can be counted on week in and week out. He is not that guy in my book.

 

And he did have major drop issues in Oakland. Yeah...he was better in Dallas, but again...alot of that production came in good weather/dome in Dallas.

 

There's alot of signs that the guy would be a major disappointment if he came to Buffalo on a huge deal. Not to mention he's already pretty much said he doesn't wanna play in a colder climate.

 

AJ Green would be a much better guy to take a shot on if available. He's had a full season of not taking the punishment of the game, and he has been a stud playing in Buffalo type weather for years. He's bigger, faster, and has better hands. The only knock is injury, but you can't predict that stuff.

 

Draft a guy and get AJ Green. 

[Wsam4031]

On ‎2‎/‎26‎/‎2020 at 12:01 PM, Hardhatharry said:

You don't want Amari "Most dropped passes since 2015" Cooper... Yea he would probably drop even more passes in the cold weather.

yea not my first choice

[thebandit27]

On 2/26/2020 at 12:01 PM, Hardhatharry said:

You don't want Amari "Most dropped passes since 2015" Cooper... Yea he would probably drop even more passes in the cold weather.

Who dropped the most passes in the NFL in 2019? No cheating...

[auburnbillsbacker]

He would be good in Buffalo and would fill one of the team's largest needs.  I'm not sure he is interested in Buffalo, but Buffalo should be interested in him.

[Hardhatharry]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Who dropped the most passes in the NFL in 2019? No cheating...

Doesn't matter, we are talking about Cooper... Well you still are, the rest of us have moved on.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Hardhatharry