RochesterRob Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: Blank is clear in saying that he's not necessarily advocating expansion. This is obviously a shot across the bow - i.e., WNY needs to wake up because the option you thought was dead - a move to Toronto - ain't dead. Note that a) Blank is saying this right after Goodell made his comments, and b) Goodell is a mouthpiece not for himself, but for the owners who employ him. WNY is awake. Albany is not willing to play ball so to speak and the position of the NFL is to ransom Albany. Who is blinking first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Billionaires do though https://news.wbfo.org/post/pegula-says-new-bills-stadium-would-be-scaled-down-version-others "Pegula added if a new stadium were to be built, there would be many challenges ahead. “It’s going to take a lot of work from a lot of people. The county, the fans, us, the stadium, the league, the state,” she said." The county's not going to help--Poloncarz has already said as much. New York State is battling a structural deficit due to federal Medicaid reimbursement changes and it will be very tough to go hat in hand to them. The fan base does not want to (can't) pay for PSLs or substantially higher tix prices. So, who does that leave to fund the thing? Pegs and the league. That doesn't seem like a funding model the NFL will embrace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 NFL needs Toronto to scare NY into forking over money. It's pretty clear. "If you don't build a stadium, the Bills could go to Toronto after all......" They used to do the same with LA. Would anyone believe Terry Pegula if he were saying these things? King Cuomo would simply wave him away and charge him a tax for having 5 minutes of his royal audience. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 39 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: As I said before Pegula needs to put his foot down in terms of Ontario including Toronto being HIS territory. You know if Jones or Kraft were here that would have been made CLEAR by now. Completely agree with this. Toronto and Southern Ontario is Bills territory. Just go to a home game and you will see 1/4 to 1/3 of the stadium and parking lot is from a Ontario. Pegula has to get funding for a New Stadium ? and block any attempts Toronto getting a franchise . The Bills also have to actively declare Toronto and Southern Ontario Bills territory and start being active In Those communities also. A lot of money to be made If Toronto doesn’t get a team and a lot of money to be lost of Toronto does get a team for the Pegulas and Buffalo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CircleTheWagons99 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) So, if they build a new stadium will the refs back off???? Edited January 30, 2020 by CircleTheWagons99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Lurker said: https://news.wbfo.org/post/pegula-says-new-bills-stadium-would-be-scaled-down-version-others "Pegula added if a new stadium were to be built, there would be many challenges ahead. “ The county's not going to help--Poloncarz has already said as much. New York State is battling a structural deficit due to federal Medicaid reimbursement changes and it will be very tough to go hat in hand to them. The fan base does not want to (can't) pay for PSLs or substantially higher tix prices. So, who does that leave to fund the thing? Pegs and the league. That doesn't seem like a funding model the NFL will embrace... Which Means Hello Toronto. Because guess what this statement "It’s going to take a lot of work from a lot of people. The county, the fans, us, the stadium, the league, the state,” she said." Applies to a MAJOR Remodel as well. Edited January 30, 2020 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, MAJBobby said: Which Means Hello Toronto. Because guess what this statement "It’s going to take a lot of work from a lot of people. The county, the fans, us, the stadium, the league, the state,” she said." Applies to a MAJOR Remodel as well. To me it means keep slapping band aids on New Era. They're not moving to TO without a stadium there (which is nowhere on the horizon) or to placate a handful of owners like Jones, Kraft and Blank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, Lurker said: To me it means keep slapping band aids on New Era. They're not moving to TO without a stadium there (which is nowhere on the horizon) or to placate a handful of owners like Jones, Kraft and Blank... And why the Owners keep saying Toronto Build a Stadium and we will come. Fact is and will remain, New Era Field is the WORST stadium in the league with maybe exception of Washington now that the Raiders in Vegas and LA Stadium read. What would be smarter paying 850M for a remodel, paying roughly the same for something like a Ford Field. Or Yearly 50-100M Band-Aids Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 If the Pegula owned Bills ever moved to Toronto or any other non WNY location, the Pegulas would have to divest any connection to WNY and Buffalo. This includes the Sabres, and any property holdings ie harbor center ect, due to the blowback involved. That isn't ever going to happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wppete Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Lurker said: To me it means keep slapping band aids on New Era. They're not moving to TO without a stadium there (which is nowhere on the horizon) or to placate a handful of owners like Jones, Kraft and Blank... Toronto is probably the 3 or 4 largest market on North America Behind NYC, LA and possibly Chicago. Toronto should be Bills territory. Check out the Raptors parade which had over 2million people. The NFL wants a piece of this for sure! A lot of $$$$ to be made. Edited January 30, 2020 by wppete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 At End of the day I really believe there will be a 60-65K stadium downtown, enclosed similar to Ford Field. New Era gets demoed and practice facilities built and such, Orchard Park is the location for all Practices and Camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, loyal2dagame said: If the Pegula owned Bills ever moved to Toronto or any other non WNY location, the Pegulas would have to divest any connection to WNY and Buffalo. This includes the Sabres, and any property holdings ie harbor center ect, due to the blowback involved. That isn't ever going to happen. Which is the problem. Everyone knows that. It's like saying to a car salesman "I'm happy with your sticker price, and I'll pay cash right now if you say no to this, but would you cut $4000 off the sticker for me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 8 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: Depends on how they want to do the remodel. Do they have to do all sections at once or do they have the option of working on one section during the offseason that can be complete by opening day? Then do the next section when the next offseason is here. Past upgrades were done without disturbing the schedule and to this point no known issues existed with the substructure. KC and GB played without disruption when they did their work. Worse case scenario is UB for a year. I believe they could renovate in phases. Heck look at China building a hospital in 6 days!!! Bills Side of stadium. Remove the upper deck and cantilevers. Start rebuilding cantilers on one side (Abbott rd side) Remove one of the ramps (creek side) which were made of the bed rock from the lower bowl.Use Pegulas fracking knowledge to break up bed rock to expand lower bowl concourse and build up from there expanding clubs and uppper deck concourses. They could use prefab panels to speed up construction. They can see how long phase one (creek side) takes to determine if (Abbott rd side) could be done in the same construction season. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Hammered a Lot said: I believe they could renovate in phases. Heck look at China building a hospital in 6 days!!! Bills Side of stadium. Remove the upper deck and cantilevers. Start rebuilding cantilers on one side (Abbott rd side) Remove one of the ramps (creek side) which were made of the bed rock from the lower bowl.Use Pegulas fracking knowledge to break up bed rock to expand lower bowl concourse and build up from there expanding clubs and uppper deck concourses. They could use prefab panels to speed up construction. They can see how long phase one (creek side) takes to determine if (Abbott rd side) could be done in the same construction season. Just a thought. You have had that playbook sitting around for years. ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: Pro downtown people here have not said where the money is coming from. Goodell wants the state to come up with the vast majority of the money and I don't see how this will happen. Pegula's using all their money on a comparatively modest return is a look the NFL does NOT want. People might get the idea that NFL owners should shoulder their own projects instead of the taxpayers/state if the Pegula's self fund. Nothing but luv for ya, but that is a red herring argument. The Pegulas have not spent all their money on anything, the are still sitting on billions of dollars. That and the money comes from the same place it always comes from, private/ public, sources, there is no other places for the money to come from, its like every other new stadium that has ever been built, and that is not going to change, it is naive to think otherwise, the state government will in the end support a stadium in the city. That and it plays into the Politicians hands with “ investment in our communities”. Your taxes will never ever go down, may as well get a new Football stadium out of it. It is odd that people create false obstacles that have already been overcome in multiple other locations, and state “ I can’t see it happening”. PSE empire is in the City of Buffalo New York, where the hell else would they build a new stadium, come on already...everyone already knows this, hell Pegula’s dog knows this, and so do you and I. Again nuthin but luv for ya. Beer time ?? Go Bills!!! Edited January 30, 2020 by Don Otreply Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 5 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: And why the Owners keep saying Toronto Build a Stadium and we will come. Fact is and will remain, New Era Field is the WORST stadium in the league with maybe exception of Washington now that the Raiders in Vegas and LA Stadium read. What would be smarter paying 850M for a remodel, paying roughly the same for something like a Ford Field. Or Yearly 50-100M Band-Aids It's not about the stadium. It's about revenue. Full stop. A new (or even renovated) stadium that generates $20-$30 million in new revenue per year for the NFL is NOT a good return on $850 million - $1 billion in new investment--at least half of which would likely be public dollars. The league isn't going to fold its tent if they don't make as much money as some places on games in Buffalo. Any more than games in Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Nashville or Pittsburgh. It has plenty of other revenue sources to tap and will likely do so before anybody ponies up $$$ for whatever the Pegula's decide... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Success Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 I feel like winning will solve a lot of problems. We need to start stacking up Lombardi's, and it will take care of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Lurker said: It's not about the stadium. It's about revenue. Full stop. A new (or even renovated) stadium that generates $20-$30 million in new revenue per year for the NFL is NOT a good return on $850 million - $1 billion in new investment--at least half of which would likely be public dollars. The league isn't going to fold its tent if they don't make as much money as some places on games in Buffalo. Any more than games in Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Nashville or Pittsburgh. It has plenty of other revenue sources to tap and will likely do so before anybody ponies up $$$ for whatever the Pegula's decide... Gate Revenue doesn't matter to the NFL. The quicker the fans realize the "we want the Bills to succeed in Buffalo" talk come from anyone in the NFL that is NOT in Buffalo is a lie. They Do not want the team here, why? Because the NFL is nothing more than a corporate event. They want to be able to charge top dollar for Boxes, and would rather Joe Blow and his family watch the games at home on their TV where the REAL revenue is generated. They see all that untapped Corporate money sitting in Toronto. That is where the NFL wants the Bills. Edited January 30, 2020 by MAJBobby 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, JerseyBills said: And we got hosed by the refs in that game too. We just dominated and overcame it. BS... if the refs were conspiring to manipulate outcomes they would have. Penalties were pretty even and a few flags here or there at least make it close. The league can slightly move the needle by declaring different points of emphasis from week to week. Don’t buy they are Flat out steering the outcomes. If they are they are missing the boat with all these playoff blowout games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 5 hours ago, Xwnyer said: Goodell can go to hell. Yes the stadium could use some upgrades but did he demand chiefs or packers build brand new stadiums? Sure a new do,Ed downtown stadium could be a future SB site but at what cause and impact on the fan experience? There is absolutely no chance of Bills hosting a SB game until global warming turns Buffalo into oasis of NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, MAJBobby said: Gate Revenue doesn't matter to the NFL. The quicker the fans realize the "we want the Bills to succeed in Buffalo" talk come from anyone in the NFL that is NOT in Buffalo is a lie. They Do not want the team here, why? Because the NFL is nothing more than a corporate event. They want to be able to charge top dollar for Boxes, and would rather Joe Blow and his family watch the games at home on their TV where the REAL revenue is generated. OK. So why waste money on a new stadium then? This whole kabuki dance is just so much piss in the wind. IMO, the Bills aren't going anywhere, no matter how much Jones and Kraft b-word about it. The league will get richer, the owners will get wealthier and the sun will come up tomorrow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Lurker said: OK. So why waste money on a new stadium then? This whole kabuki dance is just so much piss in the wind. IMO, the Bills aren't going anywhere, no matter how much Jones and Kraft b-word about it. The league will get richer, the owners will get wealthier and the sun will come up tomorrow... Sorry there is going to be a new stadium or major renovation, also making smaller, ticket prices will go up, that is going to be the reality, people need to start coming to terms with that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillsfootball Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 56 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: I don't think you read what I actually wrote. If a new stadium goes into OP it will be built next to NE then when complete NE gets demolished. Parking gets screwed up for a year or two but the area can handle it. This means the Bills play in NE until the new stadium is complete. Just like what was done in the Meadowlands. I think that you meant "What are the hidden costs in building downtown?" Environmental impact studies. Eminent domain. removal of hazardous materials whether it be from abandoned homes such as with lead and asbestos or industrial materials from a brown field site. Nuisance lawsuits designed to get graft for a select few. All that is in addition to utility upgrades, runoff and drainage control, roadway modification and changes/new construction to name a few. 100 million was the figure tossed around for all that on the old BBMB by people who actually had some idea as to how development planning is done. Pegula's will build where it makes financial sense for them. That could be any number of places. Why would you spend a BILLION plus dollars in Orchard Park? And you keep asking where the money will come from if they build downtown. WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM IF THEY BUILD OR RENOVATE IN OP? And yes, it will be a public / private partnership. LOCAL politicians should insist the state tap into the CASH COW in our own backyard - the NY Power Authority. And last, who cares what Goodell says - the Pegula's will figure out financing. If and when some come from the State/County for the stadium or infrastructure - so be it. But Goodell doesn't get to stipulate where the money is coming from; even if the NFL kick in from their stadium fund. Next question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krf139 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 He should worry more about the egregious officiating issue in the league he oversees as opposed to stadium renovations in a city that has the best fanbase in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammered a Lot Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, loyal2dagame said: You have had that playbook sitting around for years. ? Well not that exact version. I see now they are using panels for below grade walls on house now. Also recently talked with a guy who worked for a company (Delmonte) who came up with a technique to build hotels by forming whole rooms with concrete in a factory, take to building site and stacked them on top of each other. Edited January 30, 2020 by Hammered a Lot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Dear Rodger, When you severely punish the Patriots*** sufficiently to the point that they would NEVER attempt to stretch the rules ... Come back and lets talk a new stadium deal for Buffalo Sincerely The NFL Fan base Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 15 minutes ago, Lurker said: It's not about the stadium. It's about revenue. Full stop. A new (or even renovated) stadium that generates $20-$30 million in new revenue per year for the NFL is NOT a good return on $850 million - $1 billion in new investment--at least half of which would likely be public dollars. The league isn't going to fold its tent if they don't make as much money as some places on games in Buffalo. Any more than games in Cincinnati, Jacksonville, Nashville or Pittsburgh. It has plenty of other revenue sources to tap and will likely do so before anybody ponies up $$$ for whatever the Pegula's decide... more than that I think it’s simply, if you can extort a bunch of free money from taxpayers by threatening to leave, why not try, even if it’s for a measly couple million in additional revenue. The ROI is infinity for the NFL, who puts up no money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 41 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Which Means Hello Toronto. Because guess what this statement "It’s going to take a lot of work from a lot of people. The county, the fans, us, the stadium, the league, the state,” she said." Applies to a MAJOR Remodel as well. How does it mean Hello Toronto? What leads you to believe Toronto would provide the NFL with a publically funded state of the art stadium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, MAJBobby said: Sorry there is going to be a new stadium or major renovation, also making smaller, ticket prices will go up, that is going to be the reality, people need to start coming to terms with that. No doubt on the renovation. But 33/67 or worse on a new stadium... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 17 minutes ago, Lurker said: OK. So why waste money on a new stadium then? This whole kabuki dance is just so much piss in the wind. IMO, the Bills aren't going anywhere, no matter how much Jones and Kraft b-word about it. The league will get richer, the owners will get wealthier and the sun will come up tomorrow... I could be wrong, but I think what he's saying is that the NFL wants more luxury boxes and more PSLs, which bring in more money to the league than Joe Fan buying a ticket to come in at the gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: How does it mean Hello Toronto? What leads you to believe Toronto would provide the NFL with a publically funded state of the art stadium? Hello ANY city that will build a Stadium. The Owners throw Tornoto out there right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said: I could be wrong, but I think what he's saying is that the NFL wants more luxury boxes and more PSLs, which bring in more money to the league than Joe Fan buying a ticket to come in at the gate. Nope. The home team gets to keep luxury box and PSL revenue. It's not shared... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Just now, Lurker said: Nope. The home team gets to keep luxury box and PSL revenue. It's not shared... Is That So? Huh. If so, then what exactly is the "you must build a new stadium" push all about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 3 hours ago, RochesterRob said: There are a lot of Erie County residents that simply lack the income to pay any more tax than what they already do. By the time you identify the households that can pay a substantial tax you most likely are talking a multi-thousand dollar increase over multiple years for each property owner. To my knowledge there is no concrete figure yet available. If you have one that is tied to a study that has been done, I’d like to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Is That So? Huh. If so, then what exactly is the "you must build a new stadium" push all about? That's what I keep saying. Higher ticket prices is the only answer--and that dog don't hunt in Buffalo, new stadium or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinii Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 21 hours ago, GG said: Bills are at or near the bottom of the revenue sharing pie, and the opposing teams get far less from their 40% of gate receipts in Orchard Park than they do in other stadiums. This is not coming from Roger, but from other owners. Exactly. And combined with Pegs net worth, he can afford to “join” the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said: Why would you spend a BILLION plus dollars in Orchard Park? And you keep asking where the money will come from if they build downtown. WHERE IS THE MONEY GOING TO COME FROM IF THEY BUILD OR RENOVATE IN OP? And yes, it will be a public / private partnership. LOCAL politicians should insist the state tap into the CASH COW in our own backyard - the NY Power Authority. And last, who cares what Goodell says - the Pegula's will figure out financing. If and when some come from the State/County for the stadium or infrastructure - so be it. But Goodell doesn't get to stipulate where the money is coming from; even if the NFL kick in from their stadium fund. Next question? I'm asking where the money is coming from for any new build. Support infrastructure is pretty much in place in OP for things such as roads and utilities. One less cost that some estimate will tack on an additional 100M if a new stadium goes downtown. The financial arrangement for a new stadium or a renovation is very much in the air including the proportions. The matter is far from settled. I'm afraid that people will be bitterly disappointed in what Albany does for the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, iinii said: Exactly. And combined with Pegs net worth, he can afford to “join” the club. Now I'm So Confused. I just read here elsewhere that the NFL doesn't care about gate receipts and that the "usual suspects" I see written up as motivation for new stadia (PSLs and Luxury Boxes) stay with the team and don't get shared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 11 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: To my knowledge there is no concrete figure yet available. If you have one that is tied to a study that has been done, I’d like to see it. I have not seen one either. I've seen people spitball on sites like this by saying 1billion dollars divided by 1M residents of Erie County equals 1,000 dollars per person for one year. I think that we all know it is not that simple as not all 1M people in Erie County have 1,000 dollars for what is a discretionary spend. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Now I'm So Confused. I just read here elsewhere that the NFL doesn't care about gate receipts and that the "usual suspects" I see written up as motivation for new stadia (PSLs and Luxury Boxes) stay with the team and don't get shared. Again, its ticket prices. The Bills are $30 below the league-wide average per seat, so the visiting team (which gets 40% of the gate) gets that much less for playing in Buffalo. The logic many owners (usually those in big cities) make is "build a new stadium and fans will gladly pay higher ticket prices!" Which is totally bupkis in Buffalo, Cincinnati, and other small market cities, IMO. And, if they truly don't care about gate receipts and it's all a smokescreen? What new stadiums tend to do is make the franchise more attractive/valuable (like fixing up your house, rather than letting if go). That way, when it comes time to sell, some poor schlub will pay more for it. Now THATS where the money is in the NFL game... Edited January 30, 2020 by Lurker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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