brianthomas Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 I keep seeing posts saying the OLine wasn't good enough, Allen was running for his life. And to some degree that was true. Unblocked defenders were in his face way too often. But what we don't know is why those plays happened. Sometimes they picked the wrong defender to pick up, so was a presnap read missed on some of them? I do know that Allen held onto the ball the longest in the league last year. I believe around 3 seconds. So doesnt that imply that he had the most time to throw? Of course the Oline could use an upgrade & im sure Beane will work on that. This whole team has been built incrementally from season to season, with him looking to upgrade everywhere. But what needs to improve the most is Allens faster recognition of the defense pre & post snap & where to go with the ball. Upgrading his weapons for sure should help with that, as well as another year of learning & growing. But our Oline was sufficient enough for us to have success. Allen couldnt complete a screen pass for his life, passes which help immensely with easing the oncoming pressure, nor could he hit on those deep passes. And there were times when he had all day to throw (with WR's or TE's wide open) that he just didn't see were open, or where his feet were planted the wrong way & he'd just flat out miss them. This is not a knock on Allen as i've been impressed with his growth & play. Just an observation. I think the Oline overall was a pleasant surprise last year. So many new bodies & i think they held up & for the most part played together well. Still room to improve of course (and im sure it will be) but you just can't hold on to the ball all day long in the NFL. You need to get rid of it on time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said: I mean, not really Since McBeane got here they have added these guys to the offense for better or worse Corey Coleman Jordan Mathews Kelvin Benjamin John Brown Cole Beasley Isiah McKenzie Tyler Kroft Dawson Knox Lee Smith Tommy Sweeney Devin Singletary Frank Gore Jon Feliciano Quniton Span Cody Ford Mitch Morse Ty Nesheke JOSH ALLEN They had nine new starters this year on offense. I think it was well addressed last offseason. You can debate the effectiveness, but not the focus IMO Agreed, there is just more work to do. They have not done a poor job as has been asserted, IMO. There was just so much to do it’s almost impossible to completely fix in one offseason. The emphasis early in this regime was defense, but I think the focus is now shifting to some degree. . Edited January 29, 2020 by Augie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael1962 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 4 hours ago, CBennett said: Get josh some guys that can get open and actually CATCH the ball when it hits them in the hands.. Tell me more about this "catching" thing you speak of? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, eball said: Nah, it was a dig. We can agree to disagree, and I don't scour the internet looking for reasons to be outraged. I think Rosenthal pretty clearly doesn't like Allen. Truth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, hjnick said: Whoa! I think it would be crazy for Detroit to miss out on Chase Young (should be 2) or Okudah at 3. That dude is a lockdown corner that could be the cornerstone for that defense. And especially drop down to 7. It would have to be overwhelming compensation to move off of him IMO. Now, I think the best/smartest play would be the NYG (even though you said they won't move) to be open to trading with the Chargers to jump over Miami for Tua AND/OR FORCE Miami to trade up 1 spot for your spot. Either way, BOTH the chargers and dolphins WILL be drafting a QB. That leaves the Giants with the same target they would have gotten at 4, which is prob an offensive tackle. They also have a QB who broke his back this season. I wouldn’t rule them out on Tua either. It’s unlikely, but.... major injury to a starter and an opportunity to draft, sit, and develop a top QB can’t be dismissed outright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, brianthomas said: I keep seeing posts saying the OLine wasn't good enough, Allen was running for his life. And to some degree that was true. Unblocked defenders were in his face way too often. But what we don't know is why those plays happened. Sometimes they picked the wrong defender to pick up, so was a presnap read missed on some of them? I do know that Allen held onto the ball the longest in the league last year. I believe around 3 seconds. So doesnt that imply that he had the most time to throw? Of course the Oline could use an upgrade & im sure Beane will work on that. This whole team has been built incrementally from season to season, with him looking to upgrade everywhere. But what needs to improve the most is Allens faster recognition of the defense pre & post snap & where to go with the ball. Upgrading his weapons for sure should help with that, as well as another year of learning & growing. But our Oline was sufficient enough for us to have success. Allen couldnt complete a screen pass for his life, passes which help immensely with easing the oncoming pressure, nor could he hit on those deep passes. And there were times when he had all day to throw (with WR's or TE's wide open) that he just didn't see were open, or where his feet were planted the wrong way & he'd just flat out miss them. This is not a knock on Allen as i've been impressed with his growth & play. Just an observation. I think the Oline overall was a pleasant surprise last year. So many new bodies & i think they held up & for the most part played together well. Still room to improve of course (and im sure it will be) but you just can't hold on to the ball all day long in the NFL. You need to get rid of it on time. I’ve commented on this a few times. It’s also harder on some linemen to block for a scrambling QB. I think Allen’s protection calls will improve with his experience level. What concerns me more with the Oline is their ability to win at POA in the run game. Particularly on inside runs. I’m not sure how much of this falls on Gore’s legs falling off mid season, but there certainly wasn’t enough drive to make up for that. QB sneaks aside our short yardage ground attack was bad. Perhaps it was just Ds being able to cue on Gore and Lee Smith. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transplantbillsfan Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 "Poor Man's Cam Newton" That line from Rosenthal and the indication that it's all he'll ever be is really an accurate representation of what the national narrative is and will be on Josh until he breaks it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjnick Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said: They also have a QB who broke his back this season. I wouldn’t rule them out on Tua either. It’s unlikely, but.... major injury to a starter and an opportunity to draft, sit, and develop a top QB can’t be dismissed outright. Very True. Also, Stafford is getting pretty old. Does Detroit pull the trigger and get their next QB?? OR do they #TankForTrevor / #LoseForLawrence to draft next season?? Even with the leg problem, I think Tua has that 'it' factor that great QB's have. (Now that you made me think about it), it's probably time for Detroit to get their next QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 6 hours ago, eball said: Terrible column. Rosenthal takes two not-so-veiled shots at Allen while supposedly writing about how the Bills can win a Super Bowl. Calls him a "poor man's Cam Newton" and makes some other comment that gives insight into his opinion that Allen isn't any good. I wish I hadn't clicked because I feel dumber for having done so. We may not like to admit it, but to this point in Josh’s career, Rosenthal’s assessment, as you describe it, is pretty spot on...Newton was light years ahead of Josh at this point in his career...what’s to disagree with about that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Junction Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 33 minutes ago, hjnick said: Very True. Also, Stafford is getting pretty old. Does Detroit pull the trigger and get their next QB?? OR do they #TankForTrevor / #LoseForLawrence to draft next season?? Even with the leg problem, I think Tua has that 'it' factor that great QB's have. (Now that you made me think about it), it's probably time for Detroit to get their next QB. It’d be similar to what GB did with Favre/Rodgers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 8 hours ago, Steptide said: The thing that's always surprised me is that McDermott always credits Andy Reid as being a big influence/mentor to him, yet for 3 seasons we've seen a lack of focus on the offense. This upcoming draft really needs to focus on the offense. We need 2 more solid recievers that will be a part of this team for 5 years or longer. I think we're ok at tight end. Get some depth at o line in the later rounds and I think we'll be in pretty good shape for 2020 10 new starters this past season on offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 9 hours ago, Steptide said: The thing that's always surprised me is that McDermott always credits Andy Reid as being a big influence/mentor to him, yet for 3 seasons we've seen a lack of focus on the offense. This upcoming draft really needs to focus on the offense. We need 2 more solid recievers that will be a part of this team for 5 years or longer. I think we're ok at tight end. Get some depth at o line in the later rounds and I think we'll be in pretty good shape for 2020 Please list the WRs we should have signed last season. We signed what was on the market and we had an unproven QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: OK, well first of all, there are at this point 2, maybe 3, QB who can "carry a franchise with their arm alone". And even they strongly benefit from, or even need, a good offensive line to give them some time (certainly Aaron Rodgers does) and at least one top-notch receiving talent who can get open and haul in a contested catch or a throw that's a bit off. I'm not sure what he means by "covers up his weaknesses and accentuates his strengths". Daboll takes more crap here than he should, but some of Daboll's play calling and sequences are strange and at times, seem designed to treat Allen as a much more developed and proficient passer than he is at this point (Eagles game, Browns game, end of Houston game). I agree. Now, think about what Patrick Mahomes would look like without TE Travis Kelce, WR Tyreek Hill, AND Not having Andy Reid setup the game plans and call the offensive plays. I highly doubt he would look anywhere near as good as he does. I even doubt he could carry the team with his arm without those people supporting him. Give those three men to Josh Allen and allow him to sit for a season and watch, learn under Reid and you might have a different view of Allen. Name any star QB that could carry his team with his arm and take away the other offensive stars on the team and see what happens. What did Brady look like this season without Gronk! Shoot, Matt Ryan had 11 games with over 300 yards passing with a completion percentage of 66.2. Ryan threw for 4466 yards in 2019, #1 in pass attempts, #3 in passing yards and the Falcons went 7-9. His WR Julio Jones played in 15 games. He clearly can't carry his team with his arm. Aaron Rodgers couldn't carry his team with his arm in 2017-2018 either. This list is endless when you don't have a balanced team. That last paragraph might mean that when Daboll called a balanced game Josh Allen really shined like in that Dallas game. 19 of 24 for 231, 2 TDs with a 120.7 rate. Mostly when Daboll had the run game working properly it took away the pressure to carry the game on his own (his arm, hero ball). As for that last sentence, excellent point. However, I would call it more than just "strange" play calling when your team has a 16 point lead and instead of finding a way to pound the ball to play keep away. You keep asking the playoff inexperienced QB to keep throwing it 46 times. It is also more than strange that the Bills had five attempts in or near the Texans red zone and came away with four FGs, one TD. This against the worst red zone defense in the league. Blame the QB for the ineffectual run game? Blame the QB for the ineffectual red zone offense? Josh Allen also ran nine times for 92 yards in that game. If Josh Allen has the ability to change the play every down or call an RPO when he feels the need then this OC is forcing way too much responsibility on that young, inexperienced QB. Either way, the buck stops with the OC for any offensive failure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 (edited) I thought it was foolish to go into the season with Brown, Beasley, ancient Gore and a rookie RB for Josh to lean on. Beane should be surrounding #17 with as much talent as humanly possible - and not fringe starters either. Top tier-potential talent! Quit ***** around! You're not going to money ball your way to a Super Bowl ring. 9 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said: I mean, not really Since McBeane got here they have They had nine new starters this year on offense. I think it was well addressed last offseason. You can debate the effectiveness, but not the focus IMO Of course you can. As far as offensive talent at the skill positions, Beane left a lot to be desired, which is why we're here with the same needs at RB, WR and tight end. Edited January 30, 2020 by Chicken Boo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 10 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said: I mean, not really Since McBeane got here they have added these guys to the offense for better or worse Corey Coleman Jordan Mathews Kelvin Benjamin John Brown Cole Beasley Isiah McKenzie Tyler Kroft Dawson Knox Lee Smith Tommy Sweeney Devin Singletary Frank Gore Jon Feliciano Quniton Span Cody Ford Mitch Morse Ty Nesheke JOSH ALLEN They had nine new starters this year on offense. I think it was well addressed last offseason. You can debate the effectiveness, but not the focus IMO Its a quality issue, not a quantity issue. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steptide Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 1 hour ago, ndirish1978 said: Please list the WRs we should have signed last season. We signed what was on the market and we had an unproven QB. You could make the argument that the bills should've taken Metcalf over oliver in last years draft. I like the beasley and brown signings, but past those 2, we don't really have any recievers. I'm interested to see if Duke williams becomes anything, but we still need a few solid recievers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 4 hours ago, JaCrispy said: We may not like to admit it, but to this point in Josh’s career, Rosenthal’s assessment, as you describe it, is pretty spot on...Newton was light years ahead of Josh at this point in his career...what’s to disagree with about that? You don't like to admit it but Josh Allen improved dramatically from year 1 to year 2 (his first full year as a starter) and shows no signs of leveling off yet. Almost every week he made you look like a fool. But that makes it more fun for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreggTX Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 Get an absolute beast or 2 for the OL. Also get a solid WR, LB and DE in FA or as close to that as you can get. Then we just go BPA in the draft. Tall order, but who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoTier Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 10 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said: I mean, not really Since McBeane got here they have added these guys to the offense for better or worse Corey Coleman Jordan Mathews Kelvin Benjamin John Brown Cole Beasley Isiah McKenzie Tyler Kroft Dawson Knox Lee Smith Tommy Sweeney Devin Singletary Frank Gore Jon Feliciano Quniton Span Cody Ford Mitch Morse Ty Nesheke JOSH ALLEN They had nine new starters this year on offense. I think it was well addressed last offseason. You can debate the effectiveness, but not the focus IMO I disagree. McDermott and Beane -- and Beane's predecessors, Brandon and Whaley -- gutted the team of offensive talent between 2017 and 2019. They got rid of starting caliber players -- Robert Woods, Marquise Goodwin, Sammy Watkins, Richie Incognito, Cordy Glenn, and LeSean McCoy -- and replaced them with JAGs and non-NFL caliber players. That's not "focusing" on the offense, it's simply swapping out good players with cheaper ones to save $$$. The Bills drafted Allen and then literally threw him to the wolves without a competent QB coach, an NFL caliber OL and receiving corps. Again, that's not "focusing" on the offense; it's simply placating the fan base by giving them false hope in the person of one player. McDermott and Beane only started to address the mess they'd created on offense in 2019 with the addition of some OLers and receivers, but in a modest way. The 2019 OL, WRs, and RBs were not nearly as good as those units that McDermott inherited when he became HC. At the very least, the Bills need at least 2 more starting quality receivers, another quality RB, and additional upgrading of the OL for 2020. That's a major investment, and it's necessary because of previous failure to really focus on the offense. Fans who think that the Bills offense is "good enough" are deluding themselves. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chongli Posted January 30, 2020 Share Posted January 30, 2020 11 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said: I mean, not really Since McBeane got here they have added these guys to the offense for better or worse Corey Coleman Jordan Mathews Kelvin Benjamin John Brown Cole Beasley Isiah McKenzie Tyler Kroft Dawson Knox Lee Smith Tommy Sweeney Devin Singletary Frank Gore Jon Feliciano Quniton Span Cody Ford Mitch Morse Ty Nesheke JOSH ALLEN They had nine new starters this year on offense. I think it was well addressed last offseason. You can debate the effectiveness, but not the focus IMO Also Zay Jones and Nathan Peterman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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