Buffalo_Gal Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: You buy some seeds and grow your food. You hunt. You live within your means. You defer your bills if you have to. You get food from pantries. You make things happen You look into social programs. You get unemployment. You get a job at a grocery store or any other store that is still open. If you have no means, you cannot live within them. Remember, there are states that will not let you buy seeds or gardening supplies deeming them non-essential. Food pantries require donations. If no one is working, if businesses are out of business, who is funding them/donating? Hunting has a season. And licensing. How does that happen now? Unemployment is state funded (that extra $600 in Uncle Sam sugar-money is temporary). How does it continually fund if there are no taxpayers to pay taxes? No employers to fund it? Edited April 16, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Just now, billsfan1959 said: Do you even understand how an economy works? Do you think the government can continue to dole out trillions of dollars without this turning into a a complete economic disaster, the likes of which you have never experienced? The cold hard truth is this: To avoid serious and prolonged consequences, this economy needs to begin opening up soon. And what about the price we’ll be paying if the numbers of death rise 10 fold, 20 fold? 1000 times over? What about that economic collapse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: You buy some seeds and grow your food. You hunt. You live within your means. You defer your bills if you have to. You get food from pantries. You make things happen Are you kidding me? This is your answer to shutting down the economy? This is beyond ridiculous.... 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: Understood and the only way to make money is to work at the job you had before this happened? Thats what I mean about being resourceful. Life isnt the same as it waa before and people should really start to consider how to move forward if this gets worse because it will if we rush back. Resourceful? The modern economy depends on the flow of money. When money ceases to flow there will be huge problems. Banks are not going to lend to every last person that enters their doors. Buying seed and hunting may work in most places here in WNY but will not work in the major cities. It will be a free for all with a lot of casualties and fatalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I wouldn't open poopie to China. Ever. Many people have questioned if the "cure" will be worse than the disease. Many have also questioned if there is a realistic plan in place barring a vaccine. (I guess we find that out tonight.) Just because people support President Trump, do not assume they blindly, continually, support President Trump in all things. There are even people in this sub-forum who have been unhappy with how he has handled this in real-time (although hindsight is always 20/20). ...I would.....with one "minor caveat"........landing fee is $2.2 trillion, COD................ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Just now, RochesterRob said: Resourceful? The modern economy depends on the flow of money. When money ceases to flow there will be huge problems. Banks are not going to lend to every last person that enters their doors. Buying seed and hunting may work in most places here in WNY but will not work in the major cities. It will be a free for all with a lot of casualties and fatalities. And if they get back too soon it will be the same result. I see your point but there are ways to grow food even in big cities. I feel really sorry for people who rely solely on society and government for their livelihood. 5 minutes ago, shoshin said: I see a lot of farming happening in East Newark. You are in a fantasyland. We are not headed to The Stand if we reopen, even if we reopen too soon. But it could be grim, that much is true. Build a frickin garden bed and buy potting soil. You can grow in a bucket fot Gods sake. 4 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Are you kidding me? This is your answer to shutting down the economy? This is beyond ridiculous.... When did I say shut down the economy? I said if the state opens too quickly this is only going to get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: You buy some seeds and grow your food. You hunt. You live within your means. You defer your bills if you have to. You get food from pantries. You make things happen You look into social programs. You get unemployment. You get a job at a grocery store or any other store that is still open. There is never a reason to starve. The problem is a lot of people in this country crumble the second they dont have things the way they want it when they want it. We are spoiled. 5 minutes ago, Justice said: And what about the price we’ll be paying if the numbers of death rise 10 fold, 20 fold? 1000 times over? What about that economic collapse? 3 minutes ago, thenorthremembers said: And if they get back too soon it will be the same result. I see your point but there are ways to grow food even in big cities. I feel really sorry for people who rely solely on society and government for their livelihood. Build a frickin garden bed and buy potting soil. You can grow in a bucket fot Gods sake. All I can say, is thank God people like the two of you are not in charge of this country. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 52 minutes ago, Justice said: It’s funny but the same people that lauded Trump for discontinuing flights from China are the same ones that support the potential lifting of the lockdown. How can you be both at this time without a vaccine or cure in place? The feds will publish guidelines which the states for the most part don't have to follow. People of course can make their own decisions on what to do or not to do based on their own risk tolerance and with their state guidelines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Hate to say it but these are the harsh realities we’re facing. All other expenditures need to cease. The priority needs to be to take care of our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddogblitz Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Troll Toll said: I’m calling it now. With these differing reopen dates between states, the first states to open will be flooded with job applications from people in locked down states. If Democrat governors get too cute with their dates, people will flee their states at even greater rates. I've been saying this for a while. If they do region by region or state by state, then they better do something to make sure the people in the still quarantined states stay where they are. Otherwise they're gonna take it with them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Just now, billsfan1959 said: All I can say, is thank God people like the two of you are not in charge of this country. Being fair to them, there are no easy, short term answers. Long term? People can change how they live. I would not be shocked to see a return to basics including gardening, and more people cooking/baking at home. Will it last? Is it a long term solution? Who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: All I can say, is thank God people like the two of you are not in charge of this country. Same can be said about you. Nobody here is qualified to do so. To say my ideas are worse than yours or for me to say the same about yours is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Just now, Justice said: Same can be said about you. Nobody here is qualified to do so. To say my ideas are worse than yours or for me to say the same about yours is asinine. No. To say you close down an economy until there is a vaccine or until we can make sure this is completely under control is asinine 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: All I can say, is thank God people like the two of you are not in charge of this country. Right because being self sustaining is a bad thing. Anyways you folks enjoy your evening. Agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: If you have no means, you cannot live within them. Remember, there are states that will not let you buy seeds or gardening supplies deeming them non-essential. Food pantries require donations. If no one is working, if businesses are out of business, who is funding them/donating? Hunting has a season. And licensing. How does that happen now? Unemployment is state funded (that extra $600 in Uncle Sam sugar-money is temporary). How does it continually fund if there are no taxpayers to pay taxes? No employers to fund it? The land could not support a wide spread turn to hunting. There are not enough game wardens to make sure that animals such as deer and turkey are not hunted into extinction in a lot of areas. Same with fishing. Not all soils are adaptable to vegetable growing. When you see fields in most WNY counties into a hay crop most years out of a 25 year cycle it means the soil cannot support other crops long term. Plowing the baby Appalachian mountains in the Southern Tier during WWI turned out to be an ecological disaster and many were returned to native growth and even some spots that were open before were planted to trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 minute ago, billsfan1959 said: No. To say you close down an economy until there is a vaccine or until we can make sure this is completely under control is asinine I’m not ready to sacrifice lives. Maybe you are. I’m not. Money comes and goes. Life doesn’t. Once it’s gone it’s gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Just now, thenorthremembers said: Right because being self sustaining is a bad thing. Anyways you folks enjoy your evening. Agree to disagree. Being self sustaining is not a bad thing. Telling millions of unemployed people who live in urban areas to just start hunting and growing their own food Is obtuse. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Bills Fan Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Being self sustaining is not a bad thing. Telling millions of unemployed people who live in urban areas to just start hunting and growing their own food Is obtuse. Right city's don't have that or much room. Agree with this. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Republicans for the Rule of Law going after King Trump. Trump thinks he is a King pigs in mud... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco_92 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: No. To say you close down an economy until there is a vaccine or until we can make sure this is completely under control is asinine Asinine is too mild an adjective for this circumstance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) We have the money to feed everyone. Cut off the war machine. Dismantle all the bases. Cut off all foreign aid. Edited April 16, 2020 by Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco_92 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 minute ago, BillStime said: pigs in mud... What's it like for low-brow coping like this to be the only psychological release from stacking years of sustained, fabricated outrage? You must be on the brink of snapping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RochesterRob Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Being self sustaining is not a bad thing. Telling millions of unemployed people who live in urban areas to just start hunting and growing their own food Is obtuse. That's only part of it. People are going to snap after the umpteenth call from American Express, Ford Motor Credit, Edison, about their late payments. Collecting delinquent property taxes will prove to be hazardous work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 Get your Heisenberg outfits ready then. You’ll need them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 1 minute ago, arcane said: What's it like for low-brow coping like this to be the only psychological release from stacking years of sustained, fabricated outrage? You must be on the brink of snapping not at all - Putin pays may well to piss you off GF. keep trying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, arcane said: Asinine is too mild an adjective for this circumstance Oh yeah? Then why are we taking these necessary steps now? Is it asinine? We might as well not have done it at all then because soon it will all have been for nothing. Edited April 16, 2020 by Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Justice said: I’m not ready to sacrifice lives. Maybe you are. I’m not. Money comes and goes. Life doesn’t. Once it’s gone it’s gone. Where do you stop? Do you remove every unheathy food item from society that contributes to the 750,000+ people that die of heart disease every year? Do you mandate forced eating and excercise regimens that contribute to obesity, which is an underlying issue in hundreds of thousands of deaths each year? Do you remove alcohol and drugs that contribute to 100,00 + deaths a year? Do you remove cigarettes and all other things that contribute to the 600,000+ cancer deaths each year Do you shut down the highways and take away cars that lead to thousands of deaths each year? Do we social distance forever, to stop the 35,000-50,000 that die every year from the flu, pneumonia, and respiratory infections? Do montior people 24 hours a day and remove any chance for them to harm themselves to stop the 40,000-50,000 people that commit suicide each year? etc... 5 minutes ago, Justice said: We have the money to feed everyone. Cut off the war machine. Dismantle all the bases. Cut off all foreign aid. Right, so your answer is to leave the nation defenseless and put millions more people out of work. You are a clown Edited April 16, 2020 by billsfan1959 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: That's only part of it. People are going to snap after the umpteenth call from American Express, Ford Motor Credit, Edison, about their late payments. Collecting delinquent property taxes will prove to be hazardous work. ...just read where telcom/internet providers agreed with the Feds NOT to shut off services under current circumstances.....but some are doing it anyhow.......SMH......shut off abilities of people to communicate?......scumbags....... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said: Where do you stop? Do you remove every unheathy food item from society that contributes to the 750,000+ people that die of heart disease every year? Do you mandate forced eating and excercise regimens that contribute to obesity, which is an underlying issue in hundreds of thousands of deaths each year? Do you remove alcohol and drugs that contribute to 100,00 + deaths a year? Do you remove cigarettes and all other things that contribute to the 600,000+ cancer deaths each year Do you shut down the highways and take away cars that lead to thousands of deaths each year? Do we social distance forever, to stop the 35,000-50,000 that die every year from the flu, pneumonia, and respiratory infections? Do montior people 24 hours a day and remove any chance for them to harm themselves to stop the 40,000-50,000 people that commit suicide each year? etc... Right, so your answer is to leave the nation defenseless and put millions more people out of work. You are a clown All that above was a waste of your time. This isn’t the same thing. What about the poor bastard that watches his health only to die because some dude passed his virus to him? None of us have the answers here. Please don’t pretend to know, because that’s all you’re doing is playing pretend. defenseless? That’s what our nukes are for. Attack us get dropped! Edited April 16, 2020 by Justice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Joe Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 18 minutes ago, reddogblitz said: I've been saying this for a while. If they do region by region or state by state, then they better do something to make sure the people in the still quarantined states stay where they are. Otherwise they're gonna take it with them. Yes sir, Washingtonians have hunting and fishing restriction ban here in Oregon. Also, we don't want to see you on our beaches. ? Oregon is doing pretty well. We still a lot of businesses operating with newly installed Plexiglas. Majority are wearing masks when out. But NYC and NJ are getting hammered. It should definitely be a regional, soft opening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, Justice said: We have the money to feed everyone. Cut off the war machine. Dismantle all the bases. Cut off all foreign aid. ...um....er....uh...oh.....well.....lemme think......ruminating....ok......have your dog take you for a walk with a blue plastic bag handy...SMH......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fansince88 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Cuomo is locking us down until May 15th. Link Meanwhile in my county we are not seeing squat. https://scontent.fewr1-5.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/93519531_1468919933279214_6137332576051789824_n.png.webp?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&efg=eyJpIjoibyJ9&_nc_ohc=33rx0pVnswUAX_EAYhQ&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_cid=0&_nc_zor=9&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-5.fna&oh=7495d4a2bcc3d2333d80584d09d6ce88&oe=5EBEBF24 Edited April 16, 2020 by fansince88 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franco_92 Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Justice said: All that above was a waste of your time. This isn’t the same thing. What about the poor bastard that watches his health only to die because some dude passed his virus to him? None of us have the answers here. Please don’t pretend to know, because that’s all you’re doing is playing pretend. defenseless? That’s what our nukes are for. Attack us get dropped! There are already going to be a loooooot of deaths directly tied to the coming economic recession. Uncountable numbers connected in hopelessly intricate webs. Staying shut down on the time scale you suggest will cause suffering and death more than an order of magnitude worse than the worst coronavirus models, at the very least. You think you're weighing bills games against death. Those aren't actually the things on the balance the government is trying to use to measure and make decisions. The bills game is replaced with piles of bodies as well. That is why not one country on the entire planet, of any political or economic orientation, will stay closed for even a tiny fraction of the time you suggest. Edited April 16, 2020 by arcane 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 19 minutes ago, Justice said: We have the money to feed everyone. Cut off the war machine. Dismantle all the bases. Cut off all foreign aid. ... Does that apply to our enemies too? Of which there are many, plenty of whom are watching how we respond to see if we're vulnerable to an attack? You can't do that without living in a utopia. We don't live in a utopia. We live in a world with enemies who want to see us burn. Those people just don't go away in times of crisis and say, "gee, you got your hands full, we'll just go over here for a bit". Those people take advantage of weakness. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, arcane said: There are already going to be a loooooot of deaths directly tied to the coming economic recession. Uncountable numbers connected in hopelessly intricate webs. Staying shut down on the time scale you suggest will cause suffering and death more than an order of magnitude worse than the worst coronavirus models, at the very least. You think you're weighing bills games against death. Those aren't actually the things on the balance the government is trying to use to measure and make decisions. The bills game is replaced with piles of bodies as well. That is why not one country on the entire planet, of any political or economic orientation, will stay closed for even a tiny fraction of the time you suggest. I ask again. Why even lock it all down in the first place then? And what models? The ones that we have based on SD? Just now, Deranged Rhino said: ... Does that apply to our enemies too? Of which there are many, plenty of whom are watching how we respond to see if we're vulnerable to an attack? You can't do that without living in a utopia. We don't live in a utopia. We live in a world with enemies who want to see us burn. Those people just don't go away in times of crisis and say, "gee, you got your hands full, we'll just go over here for a bit". Those people take advantage of weakness. Nukes. Why have them then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 10 minutes ago, Justice said: I ask again. Why even lock it all down in the first place then? And what models? The ones that we have based on SD? Nukes. Why have them then? ....r u in quarantine??........ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....r u in quarantine??........ Absolutely. I have been for over a month. Edited April 16, 2020 by Justice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 15 minutes ago, Justice said: Nukes. Why have them then? Because some enemies aren't state based actors (meaning, no country to bomb). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Justice said: Absolutely. I have been for over a month. Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly: You want to lock down the entire nation indefinitely. And you don't think this is a bad thing because "saves lives." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted April 16, 2020 Share Posted April 16, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, RochesterRob said: The land could not support a wide spread turn to hunting. There are not enough game wardens to make sure that animals such as deer and turkey are not hunted into extinction in a lot of areas. Same with fishing. Not all soils are adaptable to vegetable growing. When you see fields in most WNY counties into a hay crop most years out of a 25 year cycle it means the soil cannot support other crops long term. Plowing the baby Appalachian mountains in the Southern Tier during WWI turned out to be an ecological disaster and many were returned to native growth and even some spots that were open before were planted to trees. You can all come hunt with hubby! There's enough deer on his hunting land to feed a whole lotta people (in season). He will be thrilled I invited you all! ? Edited April 16, 2020 by Buffalo_Gal 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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