The Next Pandemic: SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19

[Q-baby!]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Ask Obama.  The H1N1 outbreak depleted them and they were never restocked.

They didn’t need them apparently. Trump had 3 plus years to restock them and ***** the bed again. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Q-baby!

[ALF]

1 minute ago, GG said:

 

Actually I will continue to point and blame China & WHO for downplaying the seriousness of the virus and not sharing enough information as early as possible.   February was a critical lost month where all Western health officials' assumptions were based on low human to human transmissability, thanks to China & WHO.

 

Where are the shortages?

 

Why are healthcare workers  and first responders  dying and getting infected  mainly NYC

[dma0034]

So I'd make more on unemployment than I do now (not much but I would). How does the Government justify paying people at home more than the "essential" employees who have to risk their health?

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Alph, from the time we absolutely know that China was well aware that the coronavirus could be spread from people to people and the time that Trump shut down that travel, China allowed 20,000 people a day to travel to the U.S. That's about 600,000 people. During the time China was lying to the world they were stockpiling such things as masks, ventilators and other PPE's. Thisshit is on China!

 

Absolutely amazing to me that people want expend so much time finding blame during a crisis. However, what is more amazing to me is that, when they finally do settle on their object of blame, it is Trump and not China.

 

3 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

Why are healthcare workers  and first responders  dying and getting infected  mainly NYC

 

Maybe because it is a virus that is highly contagious and can kill people, particularly in the place where most of the cases are?

Edited April 7, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, dma0034 said:

So I'd make more on unemployment than I do now (not much but I would). How does the Government justify paying people at home more than the "essential" employees who have to risk their health?

That was the loophole that Lindsey wanted closed.

[ALF]

2 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Absolutely amazing to me that people want expend so much time finding blame during a crisis. However, what is more amazing to me is that, when they finally do settle on their object of blame, it is Trump and not China.

 

 

Maybe because it is a virus that is highly contagious and can kill people, particularly in the place where most of the cases are?

 

So PPE won't protect them ?

[Doc]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

Right, most of those people came into the country before the Jan 31 restrictions. Forget the fact that, on Jan 23, the WHO was still reporting to the world that the outbreak did not yet constitute a public emergency of international concern and there was "no evidence" of the virus spreading between humans outside of China.....

 

Yup.  Tens to hundreds of infected cases came in prior to the ban, spreading the disease silently.  And then more came in from Italy and Iran before we knew about it.  The only thing that would have worked was closing down borders as soon as the first case was reported in China (which may have to happen in the future) but that wasn't going to happen.

 

Just now, IDBillzFan said:

Hey, knock it off with facts. Besides, don't you know that WHO is getting ready to sponsor a national coming together with Colbert and Fallon to make us all feel better?

 

Please tell me you're joking.

[Foxx]

12 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

WHEN IS A CORONAVIRUS DEATH ACTUALLY A CORONAVIRUS DEATH? 

 

Good question, raised by Julie Kelly of American Greatness. 

 

The answers are about as clear as a gallon of Mississippi River mud flats water.

 

 

 

.

 

@billsfan1959

 

just a FYI here... in the comments section there is a greater, in detail time line of events posted by the user, 'fiscal conserv 58' with 11 posts. i have appreciated your timeline you have posted and thought you might like a more in depth look.

 

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by Foxx

[TakeYouToTasker]

2 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

So PPE won't protect them ?

Not with 100% effectiveness, no.

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

Obama used the last roll of TP in the White House too. Has Trump been wiping his ass with his hand this whole time?

 

No, the New York Times...

 

10 minutes ago, Q-baby! said:

They didn’t need them apparently. Trump had 3 plus years to restock them and ***** the bed again. 

 

Nice deflection.  You use it, you replace it.

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, ALF said:

So PPE won't protect them ?

 

I know it is hard to believe, but healthcare workers can actually contract viruses from patients they work on.

 

However, if you would like to provide the statistics and sources regarding the shortage of PPE and numbers of healthcare workers contracting the virus, then it would help the discussion.

[Warren Zevon]

5 minutes ago, TakeYouToTasker said:

Not with 100% effectiveness, no.

 

Phew! Good thing you came out of the woodwork to state an obvious fact

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

No, the New York Times...

 

 

Must be why they have record sales

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, dma0034 said:

So I'd make more on unemployment than I do now (not much but I would). How does the Government justify paying people at home more than the "essential" employees who have to risk their health?

The need for swift action allowed the government to ignore the relatively few instances that were worthy of head shaking and would normally be fought over in Congress. Sort of like when the tidal wave is coming don't spend time replacing the washer in the kitchen faucet. Remember passing this legislation in order to get money out there to people was of the utmost importance and there were people trying to force new elections laws and airplane emission standards into it. Yes, who knew, but some people tried to make this crisis political.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

Must be why they have record sales

 

It's now cheaper than TP, so...

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, Doc said:

 

It's now cheaper than TP, so...

 

Only if you use it as 1 ply... it changes the game when you stick two pages together

[Doc]

1 minute ago, Gary Busey said:

Only if you use it as 1 ply... it changes the game when you stick two pages together

 

I'll take your word for it.

[3rdnlng]

How can anyone think that wiping his ass with the NYT wouldn't actually put moreshit on his ass than remove it?

[ALF]

7 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I know it is hard to believe, but healthcare workers can actually contract viruses from patients they work on.

 

However, if you would like to provide the statistics and sources regarding the shortage of PPE and numbers of healthcare workers contracting the virus, then it would help the discussion.

 

I know, I know fake news

 

‘At War With No Ammo’: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

March 19, 2020

The Open Cities Community Health Center in St. Paul, Minn., is considering shutting down because it doesn’t have enough face masks.

 

Doctors at Barnes Jewish Hospital in St. Louis are performing invasive procedures on coronavirus patients with loose fitting surgical masks rather than the tight respirator masks recommended by health agencies.

 

At a Los Angeles emergency room, doctors were given a box of expired masks, and when they tried to put them on, the elastic bands snapped.

 

With coronavirus cases soaring, doctors, nurses and other front-line medical workers across the United States are confronting a dire shortage of masks, surgical gowns and eye gear to protect them from the virus.

 

In interviews, doctors said they were increasingly anxious, fearing they could expose not only themselves to the virus, but their families and others.

 

“There’s absolutely no way to protect myself,” said Dr. Faezah A. Bux, an anesthesiologist in central Kentucky who in recent days had to intubate several elderly patients in respiratory distress without the respirator masks and protective eye gear recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. “Not only can I not protect myself, I can’t protect my patients.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/health/coronavirus-masks-shortage.html

[Warren Zevon]

Just now, 3rdnlng said:

How can anyone think that wiping his ass with the NYT wouldn't actually put moreshit on his ass than remove it?

 

True - so the question remains - how does Trump wipe his ass since Obama used the last roll of toilet paper before he left?

[B-Man]

 

.

[3rdnlng]

1 minute ago, Gary Busey said:

 

True - so the question remains - how does Trump wipe his ass since Obama used the last roll of toilet paper before he left?

If you've been watching the briefings you'd know. The answer is: he wipes his ass with stupid reporters.

[Uncle Joe]

38 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

Seriously Alph? Where have you been? The article you quote is from February 25, 2020 and the points it makes have been refuted time after time here. The NSC group having to do with the spread of disease was an Obama created redundant team. Simply put, Trump's team streamlined many of the NSC groups that had been created by Obama and made the NSC bloat to 400 people vs. 100 people previously. 

Come on 3rd, everyone knows that 400 people in government can do twice the work of 100.

[B-Man]

THIS IS INTERESTING: 

 

Massachusetts General Hospital among first to test nitric oxide on pandemic patients: Nitric oxide has been considered a miracle drug for helping oxygen-starved newborns. 

 

“We have tremendous confidence this therapy will alter the devastating effects of COVID-19 but we must test it. If results show promise, and since this gas is already FDA approved, widespread use could begin immediately.”

 

Somebody told me the other day that people are using nitric-oxide boosters like Viagra and Cialis as a treatment, too, but I haven’t seen any stories on that.

 

Here’s a clinical trial listing, though.

 

by Glenn Reynolds

 

[GG]

16 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

Why are healthcare workers  and first responders  dying and getting infected  mainly NYC

 

Are they getting infected because of PPE shortages or due to constant exposure to severely sick and contagious people?

[billsfan1959]

23 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

I know, I know fake news

 

‘At War With No Ammo’: Doctors Say Shortage of Protective Gear Is Dire

March 19, 2020

The Open Cities Community Health Center in St. Paul, Minn., is considering shutting down because it doesn’t have enough face masks.

 

Doctors at Barnes Jewish Hospital in St. Louis are performing invasive procedures on coronavirus patients with loose fitting surgical masks rather than the tight respirator masks recommended by health agencies.

 

At a Los Angeles emergency room, doctors were given a box of expired masks, and when they tried to put them on, the elastic bands snapped.

 

With coronavirus cases soaring, doctors, nurses and other front-line medical workers across the United States are confronting a dire shortage of masks, surgical gowns and eye gear to protect them from the virus.

 

In interviews, doctors said they were increasingly anxious, fearing they could expose not only themselves to the virus, but their families and others.

 

“There’s absolutely no way to protect myself,” said Dr. Faezah A. Bux, an anesthesiologist in central Kentucky who in recent days had to intubate several elderly patients in respiratory distress without the respirator masks and protective eye gear recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. “Not only can I not protect myself, I can’t protect my patients.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/19/health/coronavirus-masks-shortage.html

 

Why in the world would you quote an article from March 19 to support an argument of an ongoing shortage of PPE? 

Edited April 7, 2020 by billsfan1959

[Uncle Joe]

25 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Please tell me you're joking.

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/06-04-2020-who-and-global-citizen-announce-one-world-together-at-home-global-special-to-support-healthcare-workers-in-the-fight-against-the-covid-19-pandemic

 

[Gary M]

44 minutes ago, Gary Busey said:

 

Obama used the last roll of TP in the White House too. Has Trump been wiping his ass with his hand this whole time?

 

At least he didn't use the Constitution!

 

[shoshin]

17 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

Why in the world would you quote an article from March 19 to support an argument ongoing shortage of PPE? 

 

There is definitely a shortage if you count people needing to re-use old masks and use makeshift PPE. That is 100% happening and until this hit, was considered unthinkable.

 

It's what we have to do right now, but it is real. I don't have a doctor friend locally who isn't seeing it. And our healthcare for things that are considered "nonessential" procedures is in the shitter right now. Coming out of this, we will have a different kind of healthcare crisis where a lot of people are sicker than they were before this started from many other things. My wife's patients are starting to have really serious issues and getting triage treatments in their homes. It is a long ways from ideal. 

 

I'm not a doom-and-gloom guy on CV-19. I think it's under control and going away. But there are secondary effects coming. No rainbows and unicorns as we come out of this, and we have to be really careful this doesn't happen twice.  

 

My neighbor's 7 month old girl is having an open heart operation on Thursday, which if successful, will give her time to an age 7 surgery, which would be her last they hope. She will be hospitalized for two weeks. Best doctors in the world. Best health system in the world. But even still, the support around the baby will not be the same as an operation that took place when she was born. They've been told this. 

Edited April 7, 2020 by shoshin

[Q-baby!]

But, but, Obama!!!! 

[IDBillzFan]

47 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

So it's ok not to have a adequate supply of PPE to protect healthcare workers and first responders. 

 

No, it's not okay to have inadequate supplies.

 

There is also a time and place to determine why that is the case and how to address it in the future. What adults do, and should do, is sit down and have a blameless post-mortem when most of the smoke is cleared so we can fix what went wrong and do better next time.  

 

50 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Actually I will continue to point and blame China & WHO for downplaying the seriousness of the virus and not sharing enough information as early as possible.   February was a critical lost month where all Western health officials' assumptions were based on low human to human transmissability, thanks to China & WHO.

 

No question. The difference is this is not the only point you try to drive home in the middle of this crisis. You provide thoughtful analysis on where the current data may or may not be taking us, and discuss the actions being taken that seem to be working (or not working). You're watching the numbers in real time and giving us your personal take on what you see and how you interpret it.

 

Unlike some who just post one point-and-blame after another with literally no ability to discuss the topic at hand without latching on to a useless talking point that smart, independent thinkers know is a waste of time.

48 minutes ago, Doc said:

Please tell me you're joking.

 

I'm not. The three major networks are going to put on a show, and it's being sponsored by the very group that helped create this schittshow.

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, shoshin said:

 

There is definitely a shortage if you count people needing to re-use old masks and use makeshift PPE. That is 100% happening and until this hit, was considered unthinkable.

 

It's what we have to do right now, but it is real. I don't have a doctor friend locally who isn't seeing it. And our healthcare for things that are considered "nonessential" procedures is in the shitter right now. Coming out of this, we will have a different kind of healthcare crisis where a lot of people are sicker than they were before this started from many other things. My wife's patients are starting to have really serious issues and getting triage treatments in their homes. It is a long ways from ideal. 

 

I'm not a doom-and-gloom guy on CV-19. I think it's under control and going away. But there are secondary effects coming. 

 

My neighbor's 7 month old girl is having an open heart operation tomorrow, which if successful, will giver her time to an age 7 surgery, which would be her last they hope. She will be hospitalized for two weeks. Best doctors in the world. Best health system in the world. But even still, the support around the baby will not be the same as an operation that took place when she was born. They've been told this. 

 

I didn't say it wasn't happening. However, before a legitimate discussion can happen pertaining to any shortage of PPE, or healthcare workers contracting the virus because of that shortage, we should start with the actual statistics and sources regarding the topic - rather than a generic "healthcare workers are getting the virus because of a shortage of PPE."

[B-Man]

 

[GG]

5 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

No question. The difference is this is not the only point you try to drive home in the middle of this crisis. You provide thoughtful analysis on where the current data may or may not be taking us, and discuss the actions being taken that seem to be working (or not working). You're watching the numbers in real time and giving us your personal take on what you see and how you interpret it.

 

Unlike some who just post one point-and-blame after another with literally no ability to discuss the topic at hand without latching on to a useless talking point that smart, independent thinkers know is a waste of time.

 

I'm not. The three major networks are going to put on a show, and it's being sponsored by the very group that helped create this schittshow.

 

That's precisely why WHO's role in this needs to be hammered home often.  I have a feeling Trump will go off on it at today's presser.

 

Edited April 7, 2020 by GG

[/dev/null]

40 minutes ago, ALF said:

 

I know, I know fake news

 

‘At War With No Ammo’

 

 

Absolutely not fake news.  Have you tried to buy ammo lately?  5.56 is like 50 cents a round, if you can find it

[IDBillzFan]

Just now, GG said:

 

That's precisely why WHO's role in this needs to be hammered home often.  I have a feeling Trump will go off on it at today's presser.

 

 

Which is one of the things I like about Trump. He is not afraid to call this stuff out. Will be interesting to watch.

[Deranged Rhino]

30 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That's precisely why WHO's role in this needs to be hammered home often.  I have a feeling Trump will go off on it at today's presser.

 

 

To your point: 

 

[Uncle Joe]

33 minutes ago, GG said:

 

That's precisely why WHO's role in this needs to be hammered home often.  I have a feeling Trump will go off on it at today's presser.

 

 

29 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

 

Which is one of the things I like about Trump. He is not afraid to call this stuff out. Will be interesting to watch.

I think Trump is doing a 2 step around this issue right now in public. Between his China trade deal, the current global ramifications of the pandemic and the need for some cooperation with China.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Uncle Joe

[GG]

Just now, Uncle Joe said:

 

I think Trump is doing a 2 step around this issue right now in public. Between his China trade deal, the current global ramifications of the pandemic and the need for some cooperation with China.

 

He can, and will hit WHO first.

[Uncle Joe]

Just saw DRs post above. Still  a  relatively soft response by Trump standards.

[shoshin]

33 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

I didn't say it wasn't happening. However, before a legitimate discussion can happen pertaining to any shortage of PPE, or healthcare workers contracting the virus because of that shortage, we should start with the actual statistics and sources regarding the topic - rather than a generic "healthcare workers are getting the virus because of a shortage of PPE."

 

I love #s but on some things, I have only anecdotes from home. My wife and her team are very close to the ICU people (lots of overlap). The ICU docs are saying that they feel like they've never seen anything like the last two weeks. They are not performing CPR in most cases because they can't take the time from other patients and they can't get into the positive respirators fast enough and the patients expelled so much fluid when they perform it. Ventilator patients are almost all dying. And we live in an area that is not "hard hit" with cases. So just because you may not be seeing lines out the door or hear that ventilators are running out, the humans on the ground dealing with this are under assault and we need to be really careful with our recovery.