Kelly the Dog Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah, but on the game coverage they had another angle and you could see that Watt almost completely missed the ball. Would Allen have held on if he'd hit it on target? We'll never know. I think it's totally legal, but it's not very effective at knocking guys down, and that's why they don't do it unless they're trying to knock the ball out. Punching does a great job in making the area of contact small but a terrible job of delivering more total force. You deliver more total force by leading with a shoulder or a form tackle with your facemask. So you think that if Ed Oliver ran at the QB and instead of trying to tackle him he just punched him as hard as he could in the chest close to the ball that is legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: So you think that if Ed Oliver ran at the QB and instead of trying to tackle him he just punched him as hard as he could in the chest close to the ball that is legal? Why would it not be? If you are attacking the ball it's smart and legal. BTW, Watt didn't punch anybody in the chest. He was CLEARLY going for the ball. He came with a downward motion to punch the ball out. It's as legal as legal gets and will never be against the rules, nor should it. And you realize that players wear hard pads over their chest, right? A punch to the chest would hurt his fist more than it would hurt the QB. Edited December 18, 2019 by MJS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: So you think that if Ed Oliver ran at the QB and instead of trying to tackle him he just punched him as hard as he could in the chest close to the ball that is legal? Yeah, I would guess that it's both legal and very ineffective, and that the reason Oliver wouldn't do that is that the QB would then scramble away, that Oliver would be reducing the amount of force he was delivering by making that play. Edited December 18, 2019 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prickly Pete Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said: Yeah, but on the game coverage they had another angle and you could see that Watt almost completely missed the ball. Would Allen have held on if he'd hit it on target? We'll never know. I think it's totally legal, but it's not very effective at knocking guys down, and that's why they don't do it unless they're trying to knock the ball out. Punching does a great job in making the area of contact small but a terrible job of delivering more total force. You deliver more total force by leading with a shoulder or a form tackle with your facemask. Okay, what about when another player has a guy under control, while some other guy balls up his fist and slugs the runner? What if you are way ahead, and don' really care about giving up a few more yards? I think it should be a judgement call at the very least. Making a fist and swinging at a guys vulnerable areas should be a penalty. I can't recall seeing it happen that often, especially from one player. Watt did this a few times during the game. I was hoping someone might bash that a****** during the closing minutes, but the game was still a contest. Edited December 18, 2019 by 32ABBA 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 It sure looked to me that Watt missed the ball, either completely or nearly so, but Allen went down exactly like you'd expect a man to do when punched in the balls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, 32ABBA said: Okay, what about when another player has a guy under control, while some other guy balls up his fist and slugs the runner? What if you are way ahead, and don' really care about giving up a few more yards? I think it should be a judgement call at the very least. Making a fist and swinging at a guys vulnerable areas should be a penalty. I can't recall seeing it happen that often, especially from one player. Watt did this a few times during the game. I was hoping someone might bash that a****** during the closing minutes, but the game was still a contest. Same deal. I'm no rules expert, but I don't think it's either penalizable or effective to punch, except punching the ball out. When another player has a guy under control and another guy comes up to make a hit, if he wants to get as much force as possible he should use the legal part of the helmet or his shoulder. If he wants to lessen the impact of his hit, make it easier on the guy with the ball, he should punch him. The reason they don't do it is because it simply doesn't make sense in any way. The only time it makes sense punching a guy wearing a helmet is if you're trying to punch the ball out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorkScrewHill Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) This is an amazing article about the football fumble scrum pile with a lot from Fred Smerlas and Conrad Dobler. It makes what is being talked about here seem kind of tame in comparison. It is a long but excellent article https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2019/12/12/21005035/fumble-pile-violence-nfl-stories Here is a sample “Retired NFL defensive lineman Fred Smerlas recalls them as the most exhilarating yet frightening moments in pro football, a purgatory of cheap shots and atrocities where you did your time unwillingly, a place where dragons lurked.” Edited December 18, 2019 by CorkScrewHill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Watt missed most of the ball and only got a glancing blow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Trying to imagine the reaction from his teammates, fans, media & NFL if Our Josh had been put out of the game by a haymaker to the nutsack. When I was ~ 8 years old, I slid down the front of our 1947 Pontiac after a snowstorm, not even thinking about the hood ornament. Sixty years later, I still think about that hood ornament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetermansRedemption Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 6 hours ago, Stenbar said: That play should be a penalty. You can't freaking punch someone with the hopes of jarring the ball loose. If that is the case then just start punching the hell out of everyone that has possession. Start drafting MMA fighters to force fumbles. LOL...What a freaking joke. SHould be a unsportsmanlike and a automatic ejection and fine. I know it is not a rule now but going forward they need to change that immediately My first thought as well. If you get the ball, fine. Otherwise, personal foul with an ejection. Throwing a punch is an automatic ejection, why shouldn’t it be in this case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This may have been tucked into one of the post game threads - apologies if I missed it. YPP put up a clip of the run play where Allen DIDN'T fumble when Watt punched at the ball. I thought it was worth a look. I think Allen has been working hard at ball security, and while it's still a work in progress, I'm impressed that he hung on to the ball here. "High and tight, Bills Claw!" Is it just me, or did Watt get him in the parts too? Upper thigh, looks like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giuseppe Tognarelli Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Although it does bring new meaning to the phrase punch the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaos Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yes, we did a good job protecting Allen this game. Which kind of begs the question why we didn't game plan for better protection against the Ravens. Even better question, why didn't we adjust at all during the Raven's game, regardless of the original game plan. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkreed Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: Watch the replay. He hits Allen in the chest and then extends down into his groin. He never makes contact with the ball. Allen either by luck or instinct is pulling the ball up and closer to his chest as the punch glances off his chest and heads to his nuts. Very clearly Allen sees the wind up. I would think it's natural instinct, not luck or training. It looks more like a flinch when the punch is on its way, which leads to the ball moving up and in towards his body more and Watt missing. The punch normally only works when the player can't react instinctively (flinch) and move the ball. Edited December 18, 2019 by nkreed Can't spell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This may have been tucked into one of the post game threads - apologies if I missed it. YPP put up a clip of the run play where Allen DIDN'T fumble when Watt punched at the ball. I thought it was worth a look. I think Allen has been working hard at ball security, and while it's still a work in progress, I'm impressed that he hung on to the ball here. "High and tight, Bills Claw!" Is it just me, or did Watt get him in the parts too? To be totally honest. As I saw it on different angles Watt completely missed the ball and punched Josh in the chest 7 hours ago, RiotAct said: was this the one fairly late in the game? I thought for sure he whiffed completely but I guess not 7 hours ago, NoSaint said: Yea, that one seems like Allen got lucky watt missed, not some special technique on his part 7 hours ago, Augie said: I’m glad he whiffed. That just might have ended badly. 7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I had that thought myself OK we're in consensus 10 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said: Although it does bring new meaning to the phrase punch the balls Fixed that for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 If Watt had connected the ball, no one would have been able to avoid fumbling. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brianmoorman4jesus Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I would have loved to see Ford or Dawkins just closed fist, wind up punch Watt right in the stomach the next time he came around the edge after that. I don’t think it’s holding. I know what Watt did was smart but that’s a little egregious. Just punch Watt as hard as humanly possible in a place with no padding when he’s rushing the passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I mean he held onto it.... but Watt didn't actually punch the ball, so...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 31 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said: I would have loved to see Ford or Dawkins just closed fist, wind up punch Watt right in the stomach the next time he came around the edge after that. I don’t think it’s holding. I know what Watt did was smart but that’s a little egregious. Just punch Watt as hard as humanly possible in a place with no padding when he’s rushing the passer. Had the Bills punched Watt they'd get a PF and possible ejection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cripple Creek Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: This may have been tucked into one of the post game threads - apologies if I missed it. YPP put up a clip of the run play where Allen DIDN'T fumble when Watt punched at the ball. I thought it was worth a look. I think Allen has been working hard at ball security, and while it's still a work in progress, I'm impressed that he hung on to the ball here. "High and tight, Bills Claw!" Is it just me, or did Watt get him in the parts too? There is no way Allen hold onto the ball if Watt connects. Allen was very lucky that the punch went betwixt the ball and his torso. Yes, he came dangerously close to the baby makers. (if he had connected with the footBALL zero blame could be placed on Allen, great football play.) Edited December 18, 2019 by Cripple Creek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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