Comparing Lamar & Josh

[Billsfan1972]

I really am an Allen fan because he is a Bill.....  Forget the draft & whether the right pick, very simply he is a Bill & at the most important position (and when needed throwing the ball for 300+?).

 

What bothers me is the narrative when comparing, which no one does to Lamar, who is the flavour of the day.

 

Every pass is scrutinized in minutiae by fans here & the national media who did not like the Josh Allen pick.  The same was done early with Lamar, but now they have gone 180 & seldom hear anything about his passing, mechanics or ability.

 

If Lamar misses a receiver, throws a bad pass or makes a wrong read then many would be gushing over incompletions and making the right decision or throwing it to where only the receiver could get it.  With Allen it is he hesitated, didn't go through his progressions, threw it too late.....

 

I couildn't believe game 1 vs. NYJ & the pick 6 that hit Beasley pretty much between the 8 & the 0 & the # here blaming Allen (too low, a little off, too hard......).

 

Lamar had 105 yards passing vs. SF & nothing really to WR's.  Is he assessing the whole field?  Of course the announcers blamed the weather (and some validity).  There was not a single bad thing said about him the whole game.

 

Rushing yards included 14 yards & a lost fumble.....  Maybe should remove those from his stats.

 

I've been Glass Half Full & think Allen has been stunted by the offense & lack of opening it up & really seeing what he can do.

 

 Here's Lamar's 2018 vs. Josh's

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/3916387/type/nfl/year/2018

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/3918298/type/nfl/year/2018

 

Also see Joe Flacco's #'s before he was benched.....  Not too bad & compare that to Nathan Peterman's......

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/11252/type/nfl/year/2018

 

Thus as Allen is the Bills QB, I'd say that he's dealt with more adversity & go as far as to say his #'s are comparable (when you throw out NE).....

 

Media slowly turning but then you get still the "Don't trust Allen" & similar comments.

[BehindTheWoodshed]

5 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Every pass is scrutinized in minutiae by fans here & the national media who did not like the Josh Allen pick.  The same was done early with Lamar, but now they have gone 180 & seldom hear anything about his passing, mechanics or ability.

 

It's quite simple. Allen has to keep winning.

[H2o]

You can't really compare the two by statistics or style because they are completely different. Lamar is Randall Cunningham and Michael Vick rolled into one person. Athletically he just has no equal right now. Josh reminds me more of John Elway than anyone else. He has the rocket arm, the improvisation skills, and he has that clutch gene that just can't be taught or manufactured on it's own. One thing about both Josh and Lamar that is admirable in this day and age, the thing which makes me like them the most, both of them are humble. It's not about them, it's about the team as a whole. The only thing both of them are concerned with is winning. Whatever comes with that, successes and failures, they take it all in stride, continue to show the same humility, and work harder to get better. They will be forever linked as will Darnold, Mayfield, and Rosen with them because they were all of the 2018 class of QB's. Imo, the best two from the crop will be head to head on Sunday. 

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, BehindTheWoodshed said:

 

It's quite simple. Allen has to keep winning.

I have Allen 5-6 last year & 9-3 this year.....  Seems to be winning  or 60.9% 

[BehindTheWoodshed]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I have Allen 5-6 last year & 9-3 this year.....  Seems to be winning  or 60.9% 

 

But Lamar is winning more, more TD's (overall), more rushing yards, he's a media darling, Allen is not.

Edited December 5, 2019 by BehindTheWoodshed

[Protocal69]

Its the winning and the electric style of play that has people looking the other way regarding Lamar Jackson. Ravens went ALL in on Lamar Jackson and I can appreciate that. I am happy for Lamar but the point remains that the book is still open regarding Lamar regarding him as a passer. For example last game he had more rushing attempts than he did completions.

 

Like a said in a previous post the Lamar and that offense is a glitch ( i dont even mean that in a disrepectful manner) but at the end of the day all glitches get patched

[Billsfan1972]

I know, and those here know I am not happy with the Bills offense (excluding the last three weeks), their game planning & how they have handled Allen.

 

I wanted to see Allen throwing more & seeing whether the offense can sink or swim.  Game management to me is not what you want from an offense.  I want them to win games (and not play between the 20's & play a field position game).

 

However I was looking at only what Allen was allowed to do within the context of play calls & think he is much closer to Lamar then people think (and heck as he is the Bills QB I put him ahead of Jackson).

 

Conversely Baltimore has done everything to ensure Lamar's success & to me the Bills have not with Josh.

[Protocal69]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, and those here know I am not happy with the Bills offense (excluding the last three weeks), their game planning & how they have handled Allen.

 

I wanted to see Allen throwing more & seeing whether the offense can sink or swim.  Game management to me is not what you want from an offense.  I want them to win games (and not play between the 20's & play a field position game).

 

However I was looking at only what Allen was allowed to do within the context of play calls & think he is much closer to Lamar then people think (and heck as he is the Bills QB I put him ahead of Jackson).

 

Conversely Baltimore has done everything to ensure Lamar's success & to me the Bills have not with Josh.

You sound like a hypocrite.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

6 minutes ago, BehindTheWoodshed said:

 

But Lamar is winning more, more TD's (overall), more rushing yards, he's a media darling, Allen is not.

 

YAWN .. 

The Ravens team has one more win than Buffalo and lets not forget that NE game, which was very close, they took Josh out of a game with a hit to the head. 

A game when the Bills were down by 6 points and Josh was playing a much better 3rd QRT than the first half AND the Defense shut down the Pats for ZERO points in the 4th QTR.

 

Being a media darling doesn't mean anything 

[Scott7975]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I know, and those here know I am not happy with the Bills offense (excluding the last three weeks), their game planning & how they have handled Allen.

 

I wanted to see Allen throwing more & seeing whether the offense can sink or swim.  Game management to me is not what you want from an offense.  I want them to win games (and not play between the 20's & play a field position game).

 

However I was looking at only what Allen was allowed to do within the context of play calls & think he is much closer to Lamar then people think (and heck as he is the Bills QB I put him ahead of Jackson).

 

Conversely Baltimore has done everything to ensure Lamar's success & to me the Bills have not with Josh.

I can understand what you are getting at here. I think though, we don’t really know which is the better way to progress a QB. Because Jackson is working in a system that works for him he may never become a good passer once defense catches up. That is not to say he doesn’t throw the ball well but there is much more to it then that. 
 

Allen is in a conventional offense that will always work as long as he progresses as a passer. They are bringing him along slowly instead of throwing him into the fire. 
 

what’s working great for Baltimore today may not work so well next year. Are they bringing him along as a passer and QB to counteract that. I know they are bringing Allen along. 
 

let’s see how they both are next year and the year after. 

[BehindTheWoodshed]

Just now, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

YAWN .. 

The Ravens team has one more win than Buffalo and lets not forget that NE game, which was very close, they took Josh out of a game with a hit to the head. 

A game when the Bills were down by 6 points and Josh was playing a much better 3rd QRT than the first half AND the Defense shut down the Pats for ZERO points in the 4th QTR.

 

 

I'm not saying I agree with the media's portrayal, but I do understand why it is what it is.  Anytime a QB of color is having success it's going to be a huge story, especially when dumbasses like Bill Polian say Lamar should be a receiver or whatever.

[Big Turk]

39 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I really am an Allen fan because he is a Bill.....  Forget the draft & whether the right pick, very simply he is a Bill & at the most important position (and when needed throwing the ball for 300+?).

 

What bothers me is the narrative when comparing, which no one does to Lamar, who is the flavour of the day.

 

Every pass is scrutinized in minutiae by fans here & the national media who did not like the Josh Allen pick.  The same was done early with Lamar, but now they have gone 180 & seldom hear anything about his passing, mechanics or ability.

 

If Lamar misses a receiver, throws a bad pass or makes a wrong read then many would be gushing over incompletions and making the right decision or throwing it to where only the receiver could get it.  With Allen it is he hesitated, didn't go through his progressions, threw it too late.....

 

I couildn't believe game 1 vs. NYJ & the pick 6 that hit Beasley pretty much between the 8 & the 0 & the # here blaming Allen (too low, a little off, too hard......).

 

Lamar had 105 yards passing vs. SF & nothing really to WR's.  Is he assessing the whole field?  Of course the announcers blamed the weather (and some validity).  There was not a single bad thing said about him the whole game.

 

Rushing yards included 14 yards & a lost fumble.....  Maybe should remove those from his stats.

 

I've been Glass Half Full & think Allen has been stunted by the offense & lack of opening it up & really seeing what he can do.

 

 Here's Lamar's 2018 vs. Josh's

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/3916387/type/nfl/year/2018

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/3918298/type/nfl/year/2018

 

Also see Joe Flacco's #'s before he was benched.....  Not too bad & compare that to Nathan Peterman's......

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/11252/type/nfl/year/2018

 

Thus as Allen is the Bills QB, I'd say that he's dealt with more adversity & go as far as to say his #'s are comparable (when you throw out NE).....

 

Media slowly turning but then you get still the "Don't trust Allen" & similar comments.

 

As WGR explained it, they really don't use their WR's very much in Baltimore, which is the reason why John Brown was deemed expendable once Jackson started playing and his numbers fell off a cliff.  They utilize zone read play action in their passing game that ends up causing the linebackers to take a step or two up and then they throw to the TE's behind them down the middle of the field.  It's why Marc Andrews is having so many wide open catches. 

 

The reason why the Bills might match up well in this is because they have two of the fastest and most athletic LB's in the league in Edmunds and Milano who can probably get back in position even with a false step or two.  This will be interesting to see if they can hold the passing game down and force them to be one dimensional.  Granted their one dimension is something the Bills have not done great against this year in stopping the run, but at least it would help to force them to run more.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

38 minutes ago, BehindTheWoodshed said:

 

I'm not saying I agree with the media's portrayal, but I do understand why it is what it is.  Anytime a QB of color is having success it's going to be a huge story, especially when dumbasses like Bill Polian say Lamar should be a receiver or whatever.

 

There it is.  The race card.    SMH.  Being a media darling has nothing to do with skin color. 

 

FWIW I'd take Deshaun Watson, Russel Wilson, Pat Mahomes easily before I'd think of Lamar. 

 

All of them were media darlings and 2 of them have a multiple seasons to back them up.

 

Faker Mayfield was a media darling.

Sam Darnold was a Media darling. 

 

All shiny new toys to gush over and then forgotten

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by SlimShady'sGhost

[BehindTheWoodshed]

9 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

There it is.  The race card.    SMH. 

 

I'd take Deshaun Watson, Russel Wilson, Pat Mahomes easily before I thought to pick Lamar. 

 

 

It's not so much a race card issue as opposed to promoting diversity (some people will see them as the same thing however).  We all know the QB position has been the one position on the field that has been "resisting" diversity for decades now. Bottom line, if we still have guys like Polian saying players like Lamar Jackson should be a WR instead of a QB, the push for diversity at  the position will still be a "thing" in the media.  Players should just be players regardless of skin color, but we are all smart enough to know that society is simply not there yet.

 

Personally, I think Jackson is better right now.  Long term, no idea.

Edited December 5, 2019 by BehindTheWoodshed

[Billsfan1972]

20 minutes ago, Protocal69 said:

You sound like a hypocrite.

How so????  Am confused.  I've supported Allen since day one.  I've criticized the coaching of the offense since day one too.   

[r00tabaga]

6 minutes ago, BehindTheWoodshed said:

 

It's not so much a race card issue as opposed to promoting diversity (some people will see them as the same thing however).  We all know the QB position has been the one position on the field that has been "resisting" diversity for decades now. Bottom line, if we still have guys like Polian saying players like Lamar Jackson should be a WR instead of a QB, the push for diversity at  the position will still be a "thing" in the media.  Players should just be players regardless of skin color, but we are all smart enough to know that society is simply not there yet.

Promoting diversity.....the NFL needs more Jason Sehorns!

Edited December 5, 2019 by r00tabaga

[BehindTheWoodshed]

1 minute ago, r00tabaga said:

Promoting diversity.....the NFL needs more Jason Sehorns!

 

Nah they're good, they have Christian McCaffrey.

[Billsfan1972]

15 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

As WGR explained it, they really don't use their WR's very much in Baltimore, which is the reason why John Brown was deemed expendable once Jackson started playing and his numbers fell off a cliff.  They utilize zone read play action in their passing game that ends up causing the linebackers to take a step or two up and then they throw to the TE's behind them down the middle of the field.  It's why Marc Andrews is having so many wide open catches. 

 

The reason why the Bills might match up well in this is because they have two of the fastest and most athletic LB's in the league in Edmunds and Milano who can probably get back in position even with a false step or two.  This will be interesting to see if they can hold the passing game down and force them to be one dimensional.  Granted their one dimension is something the Bills have not done great against this year in stopping the run, but at least it would help to force them to run more.

Again the narrative promoting Lamar.  If it was Allen, it would be "Allen can't read the field or find his open wide receivers as shown in the All-22" 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again the narrative promoting Lamar.  If it was Allen, it would be "Allen can't read the field or find his open wide receivers as shown in the All-22" 

 

Well if a team can go 24 straight possessions without a punt then I don't really think it matters what he is or isn't able to do....

 

All I know is that its extremely effective

[Stank_Nasty]

27 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

YAWN .. 

The Ravens team has one more win than Buffalo and lets not forget that NE game, which was very close, they took Josh out of a game with a hit to the head. 

A game when the Bills were down by 6 points and Josh was playing a much better 3rd QRT than the first half AND the Defense shut down the Pats for ZERO points in the 4th QTR.

 

Being a media darling doesn't mean anything 

Just saying that the ravens have only one more win than the bills and leaving out the fact they’ve beaten the niners, seahawks, pats, Steelers and rams is sorta just putting your head in the sand. 
 

I think we may nip the ravens this weekend. I think the bills are a damn good team...... but the ravens string of victories against some of the best in the NFL pretty insane. 
 

... I do agree on the pats game though. I’ve thought ever since it happened that if allen stays in there he finds a way to get it done. That’s just been his “thing” 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[atlbillsfan1975]

The Ravens aren’t trying to develop Jackson like the Bills are trying to develop Allen. Jackson isn’t running a pro style offense with multiple reads. Greg Roman was brought in because he was the perfect OC to maximize Lamar’s strengths. The Bills want Allen to develop into a pocket passing QB who when the pocket breaks down he can scramble for yards. 
The Ravens realize Lamar’s style of play  has a much shorter shelf life than Allen’s. Running QB’s don’t typically last a long time. Can Jackson transition into more of a pocket passer when he is older and not as elusive? Maybe. Vick did it with Andy Reid in Philly.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Geeze-

 

Lamar is a more explosive exciting player to watch right now.

 

thats what fueling the mania.

 

Some Bills fans need to stop acting slighted.

 

Barry Sanders got more attention than Thurman, because he was a more electric exciting player.

 

its ok... 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Just saying that the ravens have only one more win than the bills and leaving out the fact they’ve beaten the niners, seahawks, pats, Steelers and rams is sorta just putting your head in the sand. 
 

I think we may nip the ravens this weekend. I think the bills are a damn good team...... but the ravens string of victories against some of the best in the NFL pretty insane. 

 

Head in the sand huh?  Did I say he SUCKS? No, I did not.

 

As to the teams he beat - 

Niners - many in the media question them.  Have you seen their schedule? 

Seahawks - they escaped many teams by the skin of their teeth

Pats***   -  the Bills almost took them as I said above

Steelers  w/o Big Ben  

Rams  - Talk about a team falling from grace. 

 

[Stank_Nasty]

Is the OP still pissing and moaning about the offense after averaging 28 a game over the last 3? 
 

I’ve always made sure to credit him for his consistency. 

[Billsfan1972]

And again my narrative won't change.  If Lamar played for the Bills they'd stunt his offense too.....?

 

Lamar is more exciting because the Ravens nurture it.  The Bills to me have done Allen no favours & frankly I'd think his progression as a qb would be further along with better coaching.

 

Now of course Baltimore has played much better teams and a better record.  To me the Bills have had a soft schedule & played bad defenses and this again was the time to move Allen's development forward at a quicker pace. 

[Stank_Nasty]

5 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Head in the sand huh?  Did I say he SUCKS? No, I did not.

 

As to the teams he beat - 

Niners - many in the media question them.  Have you seen their schedule? 

Seahawks - they escaped many teams by the skin of their teeth

Pats***   -  the Bills almost took them as I said above

Steelers  w/o Big Ben  

Rams  - Talk about a team falling from grace. 

 

This sounds like what the media and other fans do with the bills. 
 

 they’ve beat 6 teams(Texans as well) with winning records in their 8 game streak. 3 of which are regarded as top 5 in the NFL. It’s been a truly amazing run. 

 

why do people feel the need to downgrade it or do the same thing to it that the rest of the league does to our bills? Not a great look. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Is the OP still pissing and moaning about the offense after averaging 28 a game over the last 3? 
 

I’ve always made sure to credit him for his consistency. 

And I said I'm more pleased the last three games in this thread buddy.  Still averaging only 21 & will continue to lay that on the coaches.

 

Take out Miami games 37 & 31 (returned on-side kick & Baltimore put up over 50) & yes still concerned about McD & Daboll trying to play for a 17-13 game this weekend.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:

This sounds like what the media and other fans do with the bills. 
 

 they’ve beat 6 teams(Texans as well) with winning records in their 8 game streak. 3 of which are regarded as top 5 in the NFL. It’s been a truly amazing run. 

 

why do people feel the need to downgrade it or do the same thing to it that the rest of the league does to our bills? Not a great look. 

 

Downgrade? 

 

Or comparing an apple to an apple.

Or comparing schedule to schedule.

 

Compared to Tyrod Taylor,  Lamar is Electrifying!!! 

 

[Stank_Nasty]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I said I'm more pleased the last three games in this thread buddy.  Still averaging only 21 & will continue to lay that on the coaches.

 

Take out Miami games 37 & 31 (returned on-side kick & Baltimore put up over 50) & yes still concerned about McD & Daboll trying to play for a 17-13 game this weekend.  

Now we are taking out high scores to try and prove the point. Solid. 
 

And if we are taking our return td’s. We need to do it with every other team. We only have one. Other teams have 3 or 4. 

6 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Downgrade? 

 

Or comparing an apple to an apple.

Or comparing schedule to schedule.

 

Compared to Tyrod Taylor,  Lamar is Electrifying!!! 

 

You are apparently missing the point. You just did what the whole league does to the bills. It’s silly. Why bother trying to take away from what they’ve done? 6 winning teams down in their 8 game streak. That’s just crazy. 3 of which are regarded the best of the best. 
 

and Jackson has been electrifying compared to the WHOLE NFL. That’s why he’s favored along with Wilson for the MVP. 

Edited December 5, 2019 by Stank_Nasty

[finn]

Right. Rationality goes out the window when the media (announcers, online, print) and fans starts swooning over a player--or when the narrative, as you say, takes root that he sucks or is inaccurate or whatever. Facts and data are tailored to the story, and those who disagree are denounced. It's almost like religion and politics, and in fact I wonder if the same psychology is involved. Infatuation, "faith," group-think, hatred of the heretic, eagerness to identify with the successful, fear of being associated with the loser... Maybe part of the satisfaction of following sports is that we get to put aside rational thought for a while and indulge our most primitive impulses. Case in point: Haushka misses the last-minute field goal attempt against Cleveland. Instantly one narrative--Allen as the come-back kid, the defense as tough as nails, the team character as resilient--is replaced by another: Allen is struggling, the Bills' record is an illusion, the defense is meh--and nothing changed except Haushka's kick. That's irrational. 

[billsfan1959]

7 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How so????  Am confused.  I've supported Allen since day one.  I've criticized the coaching of the offense since day one too.   

 

You and I have had our disagreements; however, you have supported Allen and your arguments have always been about the style of offense you would like to see with him.

 

I agree with you that they are closer than people want to admit. I posted the stats of Allen and Jackson over the last 8 games in several other threads. I chose that span because Allen has been playing differently since the NE game, and Jackson has been on an 8 game winning streak. From a pure player production standpoint, they have been pretty close: Jackson has only 174 more total yards, less passing yards, more rushing yards 3 more total TDS, 1 more turnover, 2 more wins, and a 109 passer rating to Allen's 99 rating. While Jackson has considerably more rushing yards, he also has almost twice as many attempts in an offense designed specifically to maximize his running skills.

 

Where they differ is overall team scoring - and that is a product of what they do on the opponents side of the field. Excluding kneel downs at the end of the game, Jackson and the Ravens have had only 4 drives inside the opponents 40 yard line where they did not score points. By contrast, the Bills have had 30 drives inside the opponents 40 where they did not score points. Just kicking field goals on 20 of those 30 drives would move the Bills from 19th to 7th in scoring. The Bills are great in the red zone. They have had their troubles between the 20-40 yard lines. Jackson has excelled in that area against some pretty good teams. That is the primary difference in production between the two. If Allen and the Bills had found ways to score TDs and FGs on half of those drives I described above - there may be a completely different national discussion going on right now.

 

I do agree with you that Jackson is evaluated differently than Allen. I think a lot of that has to do with the level of polarization surrounding Allen, and the hard lines drawn by people in their evaluations of him going into the draft. It is starting to change, not coincidentally, with better offensive play over the last three weeks.

 

Here's hoping that change in the national conversation of Allen continues after this game.

 

In the end, I don't care what other people say about Allen, how they think he measures up to other QBs, or which other QBs are better. I think he is the right QB for this team and this city. He is talented, tough, competitive, and smart. Over his last 16 games (a full season), he is 11-5. Over his last 8 games he has 18 TDs and 3 turnovers. Over his last 3 games, we have started to see that talent on display even more - with so much more room to grow.

 

Go Bills!

 

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by billsfan1959

[H2o]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And I said I'm more pleased the last three games in this thread buddy.  Still averaging only 21 & will continue to lay that on the coaches.

 

Take out Miami games 37 & 31 (returned on-side kick & Baltimore put up over 50) & yes still concerned about McD & Daboll trying to play for a 17-13 game this weekend.  

If you can't see that Miami is a COMPLETELY different team right now than they were in week one I don't know what to tell you. They are 3-2 in their last 5 games and have played everyone pretty tough since the Redskins game 3 weeks prior to their first win. The 50 hung on them by Baltimore is week 1 is kind of a weak arguing point. The Bills hung 37 on the Dolphins in the 2nd game, 20 on the #4 defense in the NFL at the time even though they did nothing but run clock from the 10 minute mark in the 4th Qtr on, and then 26 on the #6 defense in the NFL 4 days later, on their home field, on national tv, even with Hauschka missing kicks. Ever since Daboll went in the booth, and they told Josh to basically be himself, this team has been night and day on offense with Josh still not making mistakes outside of one errant pass. 

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, H2o said:

If you can't see that Miami is a COMPLETELY different team right now than they were in week one I don't know what to tell you. They are 3-2 in their last 5 games and have played everyone pretty tough since the Redskins game 3 weeks prior to their first win. The 50 hung on them by Baltimore is week 1 is kind of a weak arguing point. The Bills hung 37 on the Dolphins in the 2nd game, 20 on the #4 defense in the NFL at the time even though they did nothing but run clock from the 10 minute mark in the 4th Qtr on, and then 26 on the #6 defense in the NFL 4 days later, on their home field, on national tv, even with Hauschka missing kicks. Ever since Daboll went in the booth, and they told Josh to basically be himself, this team has been night and day on offense with Josh still not making mistakes outside of one errant pass. 

Everyone scores vs. Miami.....  And if you use Indy as an example, Hoyer was the qb that game.  Their defense is lousy..... 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

35 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:

Now we are taking out high scores to try and prove the point. Solid. 
 

And if we are taking our return td’s. We need to do it with every other team. We only have one. Other teams have 3 or 4. 

You are apparently missing the point. You just did what the whole league does to the bills. It’s silly. Why bother trying to take away from what they’ve done? 6 winning teams down in their 8 game streak. That’s just crazy. 3 of which are regarded the best of the best. 
 

and Jackson has been electrifying compared to the WHOLE NFL. That’s why he’s favored along with Wilson for the MVP. 

 

And??  Schedule are schedules.  An excuse for one team is an excuse for another team.   Dallas leads their division.  Ergo they are a good team. 

 

Did the Bills benefit from their schedule?  Probably.  Just like all the other teams may have. 

 

Why are you continuing to pursue this? 

 

(If I don't respond it's because I don't want to continue a circular argument) 

[Kirby Jackson]

I haven’t read it all but this is where I’m going to go to my “there can be multiple good QBs in a draft class argument.” Watson and Mahomes are both good. Wilson and Luck are (or were) both good. Lamar Jackson is probably the MVP of the league. Josh Allen is an ascending talent that may find himself in the Pro Bowl this year. Both teams should be very happy with the guy that they drafted. 

[Hebert19]

Having the media like you and 5 bucks can but you a coffee.  Who cares.  Josh is our guy and we know if he keeps current trajectory he will be a top 5 qb in this league.  Both guys are the future if the league. 

[JerseyBills]

I don't think Lamar is close to Allen or most QBs in general ability to read the field and go through progressions , he has no pocket presence and is purely dominating off athletic ability and a perfect marriage to Greg Roman who will likely get HC offers this offseason. 

Even with the MVP like season  , I'd take Allen all day as my franchise qb . I don't know how sustainable his style is,  he is atrocious at making reads and everything is smoke and mirrors in their offense but just executing at a super high level. 

[C.Biscuit97]

56 minutes ago, SlimShady'sGhost said:

 

Head in the sand huh?  Did I say he SUCKS? No, I did not.

 

As to the teams he beat - 

Niners - many in the media question them.  Have you seen their schedule? 

Seahawks - they escaped many teams by the skin of their teeth

Pats***   -  the Bills almost took them as I said above

Steelers  w/o Big Ben  

Rams  - Talk about a team falling from grace. 

 

In every Jackson thread, you reach really hard to put down his accomplishments.  The Ravens have by far the best wins of any team in the nfl.  Allen, who I thought had the best game of his career against the Cowboys who are .500, got a ton of love after it.  
 

it’s weird. When you beat good teams, are 10-3, and have accounted for 32 tds, you’re going to get a lot of attention.  If Allen plays like he did against the Cowboys against our remaining schedule, he will get a ton of attention.  But you come across as a hater trying to put down a qb who is having a MVP type season. 

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I don't think Lamar is close to Allen or most QBs in general ability to read the field and go through progressions , he has no pocket presence and is purely dominating off athletic ability and a perfect marriage to Greg Roman who will likely get HC offers this offseason. 

Even with the MVP like season  , I'd take Allen all day as my franchise qb . I don't know how sustainable his style is,  he is atrocious at making reads and everything is smoke and mirrors in their offense but just executing at a super high level. 

I take it you mean Lamar?  He makes usually the right read on his designed runs.

 

Allen I'd like to see passing 35X's a game to accelerate his progress and a conscious effort by the Offense to score points, not play field position. 

 

 

[H2o]

25 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Everyone scores vs. Miami.....  And if you use Indy as an example, Hoyer was the qb that game.  Their defense is lousy..... 

Okay and the Bills scored 20 on the #4 defense, which their most points allowed this year was 30 by the Chiefs, where they basically ran 10 minutes of clock out on the ground. Then 4 days later they score 26 on the #6 defense, with Hauschka missing kicks, which had given up 34 points against the Packers previously as their highest total allowed. 

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I take it you mean Lamar?  He makes usually the right read on his designed runs.

 

Allen I'd like to see passing 35X's a game to accelerate his progress and a conscious effort by the Offense to score points, not play field position. 

 

 

If Allen only throws the ball 20-25 times a game, but we keep winning, I could care less. The growth in his game is evident to everyone paying attention. And as long as we are winning I wouldn't change the approach.