Looking for a reason why Beane should make a big trade before the deadline? Look no further than John Dorsey.

[BringBackOrton]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

There isn’t going to be 40 million when we start paying our own

Who are we signing this year John?

[John from Riverside]

7 minutes ago, BringBackOrton said:

Who are we signing this year John?

We can roll it right?

[BringBackOrton]

Just now, John from Riverside said:

We can roll it right?

We have $88M before rookie contracts next year. I hope we don’t resign Lorax and roll the rest. Eventually you need to sign a couple good players. 

[Steve Billieve]

7 hours ago, ChattanoogaBills said:

I for one think Poyer is not going to be resigned. With the flashes that J. Johnson showed during preseason he will be groomed to take Poyers spot.

Im not saying Poyer isnt good but i dont see him as a game changer. 

 

I'm not so sure.  When Poyer is a free agent he will be playing at 30.  I'm not sure what the compensation for a 30 y/o defensive back is, but it won't break the bank. Hyde will be even older when he would become a free agent.  I think if they're happy here they both play out their careers here.  It seems like that is the situation this front office is constantly trying to arrange.  Affordable extensions in free agency.

[MJS]

What does this have to do with Beane needing to make a trade?

[Steve Billieve]

 

2 minutes ago, MJS said:

What does this have to do with Beane needing to make a trade?

 

 

Dunno. Conversations are living things.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, BringBackOrton said:

We have $88M before rookie contracts next year. I hope we don’t resign Lorax and roll the rest. Eventually you need to sign a couple good players. 

It’s gonna be time to sign some extensions soon but. I agree with this

[TPS]

10 hours ago, kota said:

Beane and McD will be here for a decade or more.  Get used to it.

Yeah, I'd say the Pegulas are very happy with the way this organization is moving. Building for the long haul...

[Manther]

18 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I mean, I don’t see how a couple examples of guys losing internal power struggles and or being scape-goated means that GM’s should be more bold with trading... 

I agree, Dorsey was a power struggle.  We don’t have that situation.  ? to ? 

[Manther]

16 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

They won’t be able to keep everyone.... you go for it as long as Allen is under his rookie contract and by the time you extend him you are hoping he is among the better QBs in the league who can raise the level of the teams play without needing to pay everyone else, because you won’t need to to win games. Seahawks and Russel Wilson being the example.

Agreed!  That’s is the best way to have a 10 year run!  Hitting on the QB gets you the extra 5 years.

[BILLSCRAZY3024]

Jesus! PLZ BEANE!!!!! Sign AJ already and let’s get this thing working! WTF are we doing? This is the thing about the BILLS. They always wait too damn long to make moves. PLEASE BEANE! Jump

on AJ and don't look back. Think about the future of our beloved team. He is a good player who needs a good team and coaching staff which we have. DO THE DEAL! WTF ARE WE WAITING FOR!!!!!  Also, we have to let TJ Yeldon go. He should of been released before Shady but what’s done is done. Yeldon has been a bust for us. Move on Beane. Get AJ and look at another RB in the draft. Singletary has it. Develop him. Ugh! This team frustrates me when they go on careful conservative mode! F THE PATRIOTS! Build  this team to be a killer and they will kill the Patsies. 

You're so close...... LETS GO BUFFALO!!!!! 
 

[Buffalo716]

∆∆∆

 

Cocaine is a HELL of a drug

[Locomark]

On 10/25/2019 at 5:01 PM, Ben said:

We will need alot to keep Jordan Phillips, which I have to t

hink theyll do.

I actually think Jordan Phillips is better that Harry Phillips. For all the talk about space eaters he’s way larger that Star and has a better motor in the middle than everyone but Ed. 

[Nextmanup]

The dimwits who run this league are slowly realizing that it sometimes make more sense to act aggressively now, rather than act cautiously for a future they may well not be a part of.

 

Swing for the fences while you are employed to do so, and have a chance to benefit from the swing.

 

Keeping capital in reserve for a future you are not part of may help the team, but it won't help YOU.

 

 

[Rochesterfan]

On 10/25/2019 at 9:41 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Dorsey was fired because he was a disorganized mess who mismanaged the cap and didn’t get along with Andy. 

 

I almost can’t believe that with the work he has done in Cleveland.  I mean trade after trade for overpriced veterans and no team continuity - what was KC thinking.

 

 

?

[Chandler#81]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:54 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think that's the full story on Dorsey " fired as GM of the Chiefs in June 2017, six months after the team finished a 12-4 season and less than two months after he drafted Patrick Mahomes".  The Chiefs had salary cap issues.  Bad salary cap issues.  There were conflicts where allegedly Reid had been promised control over personnel matters but Dorsey had been promised the same personnel control as other GMs.  Basically I think it was more a "personality conflict" thing with cap issues tossed in.

It may not be the ‘full story’, but it’s a legit narrative. Thanks for the article @ChevyVanMiller. Insightful. Under these premises, I think today’s outcome may be critical to Beane & Company. We win, we’re very likely a 12 win team, putting us deep down the Draft selection number. Little to no chance of selecting a stud WR or Edge Rusher. Lose, and it could be a dog fight for a Wild Card. With Tuesday’s Trade deadline, I think today’s outcome goes a long way toward making our 1st Round pick tradable for Immediate team upgrade.

 

WIN, BILLS!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I still feel our time to go for it is next year. Cap space coming off what should be double digit wins. 

 

That said if you can improve the pass rush and find a  WR then do it now. I'de actually rank pass rusher ahead of WR for in season moves. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

It may not be the ‘full story’, but it’s a legit narrative. Thanks for the article @ChevyVanMiller. Insightful. Under these premises, I think today’s outcome may be critical to Beane & Company. We win, we’re very likely a 12 win team, putting us deep down the Draft selection number. Little to no chance of selecting a stud WR or Edge Rusher. Lose, and it could be a dog fight for a Wild Card. With Tuesday’s Trade deadline, I think today’s outcome goes a long way toward making our 1st Round pick tradable for Immediate team upgrade.

 

WIN, BILLS!

 

Well, it's legit in the sense of "could plausibly happen" but I don't think the notion that Dorsey got fired for failing to trade to improve the team at the deadline matches all the media stuff in MO.  There's also the point that expectations change once your team has been 11-5, 12-4, going to playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons - but not even making it to the conference game.  Expectations change.  Did he get fired in part because the team was good, but not good enough and tight up against the cap?  Yep.  Failing to trade?  Unlikely.

 

But that's OK, we can disagree on that.

 

Either way, I think with last year being 6-10, the expectation this year is to at least flip the numbers and win enough to get back to the playoffs (and I do love saying that).  I think Beane would sooner trade his left nut than a 1st round draft pick.  But I could be wrong, and who knows, maybe we'll read about a...different trade package.

And the point remains that at some point once you're good, good is no longer enough.

 

 

[Chandler#81]

I’ll be genuinely surprised if we win today and DON’T make a trade by the deadline.

[Green Lightning]

On 10/25/2019 at 2:55 PM, whatdrought said:

I mean, I don’t see how a couple examples of guys losing internal power struggles and or being scape-goated means that GM’s should be more bold with trading... 

This. And if it's your year to make a run by all means make a good trade and use some draft capital. If your still building and playing the long game, don't make a trade to show activity, stick the the program and that's what Beane is doing.

[Green Lightning]

On 10/25/2019 at 9:41 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Dorsey was fired because he was a disorganized mess who mismanaged the cap and didn’t get along with Andy. 

No Yolo, it's because he didn't make a trade. I read that somewhere...

[Mr. WEO]

17 hours ago, BILLSCRAZY3024 said:

Jesus! PLZ BEANE!!!!! Sign AJ already and let’s get this thing working! WTF are we doing? This is the thing about the BILLS. They always wait too damn long to make moves. PLEASE BEANE! Jump

on AJ and don't look back. Think about the future of our beloved team. He is a good player who needs a good team and coaching staff which we have. DO THE DEAL! WTF ARE WE WAITING FOR!!!!!  Also, we have to let TJ Yeldon go. He should of been released before Shady but what’s done is done. Yeldon has been a bust for us. Move on Beane. Get AJ and look at another RB in the draft. Singletary has it. Develop him. Ugh! This team frustrates me when they go on careful conservative mode! F THE PATRIOTS! Build  this team to be a killer and they will kill the Patsies. 

You're so close...... LETS GO BUFFALO!!!!! 
 

 

Jump On AJ and he'll miss 2 more seasons.

[Thurman#1]

On 10/26/2019 at 2:42 AM, ChevyVanMiller said:

"John Dorsey was fired as GM of the Chiefs in June 2017, six months after the team finished a 12-4 season and less than two months after he drafted Patrick Mahomes."

Found this interesting factoid in an ESPN article about why current NFL GMs are trading way more than their counterparts of just 5 years ago did. Crazy to think that a guy could get canned after a season like that and then making a trade up and hitting on a true franchise QB.

 

Just goes to show that it's a win-in-the-playoffs league and swinging for the fences by moving draft capital isn't the awful idea it was once considered to be.

 

Here's the full article : https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27919597/why-nfl-trades-increased-four-reasons-why-deadline-no-longer-dud

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the article. Interesting take.

 

Having said that, there is some of it that I'm not really buying.

 

He cites Gettleman, Dorsey and Brian Gaine as examples of GMs who got fired a bit earlier than normal. And those three situations were all somewhat peculiar. Gaine lost a power struggle with O'Brien. Gettleman seems to have been fired partly because the owner didn't like his inability to get along with people, in combination with his drop from an excellent Super Bowl season to a 6-10 that had a lot to do with weak areas in personnel that had been predictable before the season.

 

"In interviews with more than a dozen team and league sources, the Observer learned that Gettleman’s brusque management style – which had made him unpopular with some Carolina players from his earliest days as GM – had begun to wear thin throughout the organization. Some staffers also didn’t like how Gettleman reshaped the roster following the 2015 Super Bowl season, leaving yawning gaps in the secondary and along the offensive line that were exposed during a 6-10 campaign last year."

 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article162968358.html

 

And here's another interesting excerpt from the same Charlotte Observer article on the firing, "Gettleman’s gruff manner was offset somewhat by assistant GM Brandon Beane, whose personable nature allowed him to serve as a go-between among the front office, coaching staff and locker room. Beane was considered the heir apparent for Gettleman’s job before he joined former Panthers defensive coordinator Sean McDermott as the GM in Buffalo. Losing Beane put further strain on some of Gettleman’s work relationships, according to sources.Tolbert said Beane acted as a buffer for Gettleman. “Without a doubt,” he said. “As players we all love Beane. We all love being around him. He’s part of the reason we did what we did. I’m happy to have him in Buffalo now, I can tell you that much.”

 

Dorsey was indeed fired after a 12-4 year, but from a team which had been 11-5 his first year. He got better quickly but stopped there, and for that improvement, many credit Andy Reid, which may be pretty reasonable. They were good when he got there and that 12-4 year they also lost their first playoff game. And again, Dorsey seems to have frustrated many chiefs staffers by going with his gut so far as to ignore scouts input on guys (Kevin Hogan being the big reported example). And yeah, you can say that Dorsey traded for and drafted for Mahomes, but Reid was just as much in on that decision. Salary cap problems hurt Dorsey too.

 

And two months after picking Mahomes, that wasn't accepted as the brilliant move it now looks to have been.

 

 

 

As for "swinging for the fences by moving draft capital isn't the awful move it used to be ..." yeah, maybe the article speaks to that but the teams trading away #1s seem to be teams with legit Super Bowl shots that year. Although you can argue that with Minkah Fitzpatrick and the Steelers, I think they thought they could still be in it after Week 2. And they also tend to be getting young guys who will play for a while and tend to be under contract for a year or two more.

 

Which is why I think the people pushing for AJ Green and players like that are barking up the wrong tree.

 

We'll see.

 

As I say, though, interesting article. Made me think. Thanks for posting it.

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

On 10/26/2019 at 4:04 AM, Ethan in Portland said:

He's not going anwhere....

But since you brought it up,

1. He created the cap mess with his trades/cuts

2. So far so good with Allen but still has a long way to prove his is a franchise QB

3. Oline is average but all in all the players he signed have done well. He cant be blamed for Incognito and Wood. But he continued his practice of overpaying for guys(see Star and Murphy) Morse is highest paid center in the league and he barely makes the top 10 in performance.  Feliciano is far better than I thought. Nsekhe is below average. Long is a waste of money. 

4. WR group is a mess but he had a significant hand in making. He traded away Watkins and traded for KB( a move I thought was good at the time). He made great signing in Brown. Beasley so far is ok. 

 

Don't agree with not picking up 5th year option on Lawson.  

 

Wallace is looking like a great find. Foster not so much anymore. Duke is TBD.

 

I am admittedly biased to win now mode. They will never have a better schedule, they are relatively healthy, and they have a chance for a deep playoff run in a weak AFC. I don't care about draft picks next year, I want a proven pass rusher and a player that can stretch the defense. 

 

 

 

Same old nonsense about Beane and the cap. The problem was already there before Beane was hired. Till they cut Tyrod they went into that season with around $20 mill in cap space, somewhere around 26th in the league. Beane didn't create the problem. Whaley did. It was already there. And it wasn't scheduled to get much better the next year. At the time they'd already committed a lot of money for that year too.

 

So that's crap. Now, did he by cutting and trading a ton of guys both accumulate enough draft picks to trade up for Josh Allen and at the same time clear up vast amounts of cap space for future years partly by eliminating guys and partly by moving money forward from future years and thereby stacking up a ton of dead cap space? Yup. But that wasn't creating the problem. It was solving a cap that was clogged by sewage for years forward by running a drain snake through things, dislodging stuff that was going to be there for years and accelerating the progress of some money forward into 2018. It was flat-out smart.

 

What he did was to go from 26th in the league in cap space to one of the teams with the most space and maneuverability. In a very short time. Despite the pain, it was worth it to scour out the clogged cap situation.

 

Star has been living up to his contract. Not that the fans who only look at stats have noticed. But McDermott knew what he was getting, he'd seen Star in practice and the locker room for years and he wanted him and was willing to pay that for a space eater. Excellent space eaters, the best few, get that kind of money without building up a ton of stats. Star's teammates through the years have thanked him over and over for making getting tackles much easier for them by doing what he does. There's some question whether he's had a regression this year. He might be playing at a lower level, though it's hard to tell without extensive film study. But the Bills have been happy ... they got what they expected. That you expected more is irrelevant.

 

The line is still gelling, which was to be expected. No way to know what they'll look like as they play together more but they're a ton better than last year despite not a one having ever played next to any of the guys they now do.

 

Perhaps your problem is indeed what you say it is, that you're "admittedly biased to win now mode." They've made it as clear as glacier melt water that they're about consistency. They've said it again and again ... they want to build a team that's competitive year after year. Which is the smart way to go about it. If you're a win now guy, perhaps you should pick another franchise to follow that subscribes to your plan. The Redskins, for example. The Cowboys. There are others.

[Rocket94]

18 hours ago, BILLSCRAZY3024 said:

Jesus! PLZ BEANE!!!!! Sign AJ already and let’s get this thing working! WTF are we doing? This is the thing about the BILLS. They always wait too damn long to make moves. PLEASE BEANE! Jump

on AJ and don't look back. Think about the future of our beloved team. He is a good player who needs a good team and coaching staff which we have. DO THE DEAL! WTF ARE WE WAITING FOR!!!!!  Also, we have to let TJ Yeldon go. He should of been released before Shady but what’s done is done. Yeldon has been a bust for us. Move on Beane. Get AJ and look at another RB in the draft. Singletary has it. Develop him. Ugh! This team frustrates me when they go on careful conservative mode! F THE PATRIOTS! Build  this team to be a killer and they will kill the Patsies. 

You're so close...... LETS GO BUFFALO!!!!! 
 

Feels good to get it out of your system.

[JAMIEBUF12]

Would ❤️To see him pry Von Miller from Denver or a Mike Evans from Tampa.Would love the big blockbuster trade instead of trading for older veteran rental players...GO BILLS!!!

[Bing Bong]

Beane should trade for a better GM?