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Depending on the outcome of tomorrows game...AJ Green

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3 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I would def do it for a 3rd

 

A 3rd for a few games with an older guy in the last year of his deal who has demonstrated he misses a lot of games with injury? 

 

Sorry, I may be wrong but I pray we are smarter than that. We draft too well to waste that pick. 

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Personally I don't think AJ is as injured as is let on. He's not gonna play for a hapless Bengals team in a contract year unless 100%. He's a top 5 receiver when right. And not a diva at all. Would fit perfectly.  I'd absolutely trade a 3rd and the 5th and 6th we acquired for Bodine and Jones if the opportunity were there. 

Edited by Floydboy12
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There is no way I am giving up anything of significance for a 31 year old injured WR on the final year of his deal.

 

And neither is Beane.

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51 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

A 3rd for a few games with an older guy in the last year of his deal who has demonstrated he misses a lot of games with injury? 

 

Sorry, I may be wrong but I pray we are smarter than that. We draft too well to waste that pick. 

What WR have they drafted that is good? 

Edited by ScottLaw

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I love AJ Green as a player.  I think he was the making of Andy Dalton as an NFL QB.  But the #1 trait of an NFL football player, Availability, has been limited for him the last several seasons.  He missed 7 games last season.  He tore ligaments and it was just announced he'll miss this weeks game, making it 6 so far with a time table for return that is "murky"

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's the availability track record for which Beane is going to pony up $12M plus a resource in trade, for a 10 game rental.

Beane will take a risk on an injured player - Kroft for example - but as FA signing for $3M this year with a hefty chunk of change in roster bonuses.

 

 

So cap space is the excuse now even though they have loads of it available? 

 

I get it. It's a risk, but giving up even as high as a 3rd round pick for a guy who when healthy, is among the leagues better recievers isn't going to jeopardize the future.... Bills have no one close to him on the roster. 

 

So they are ok taking a risk with guys like Kroft and Morse with availability risks but not Green? Got it. 

 

Sounds like fans scared of the Bills making a big trade to potentially put them over the top. Need to hold onto that 3rd rounder. 😅

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3 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

So cap space is the excuse now even though they have loads of it available? 

 

I get it. It's a risk, but giving up even as high as a 3rd round pick for a guy who when healthy, is among the leagues better recievers isn't going to jeopardize the future.... Bills have no one close to him on the roster. 

 

So they are ok taking a risk with guys like Kroft and Morse with availability risks but not Green? Got it. 

 

Sounds like fans scared of the Bills making a big trade to potentially put them over the top. Need to hold onto that 3rd rounder. 😅

 

You are such a good disciple.  He will be proud.

 

I remember, just a few years ago, going to Cincinnati to see the Bills play the Bengals.  A couple plays in, AJ Green was hurt and out of the game.  We (the Bills) won.  This guy is damaged goods and not worth a 3rd round pick.  A WR who might play 5 games is not putting any team over the top.  For Christ's sakes .. he's been on the Bengals for 50 years and never put THEM over the top.

 

Common man.

 

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12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What WR have they drafted that is good? 

 

Congrats on remaining consistent!  😋

 

These guys are drafting like witches, and next year is supposed to be a strong WR draft. I like our odds. Never a guarantee, but I like the odds. You can argue they draft better on D, but let’s wait and see. That’s fair, right? 

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1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I love AJ Green as a player.  I think he was the making of Andy Dalton as an NFL QB.  But the #1 trait of an NFL football player, Availability, has been limited for him the last several seasons.  He missed 7 games last season.  He tore ligaments and it was just announced he'll miss this weeks game, making it 6 so far with a time table for return that is "murky"

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think that's the availability track record for which Beane is going to pony up $12M plus a resource in trade, for a 10 game rental.

Beane will take a risk on an injured player - Kroft for example - but as FA signing for $3M this year with a hefty chunk of change in roster bonuses.

 

 

 

 

I would guess it would be an 8 game rental........which would cost the Bills just under $6M in salary(his base for the entire year is $11.9M)...........which is basically what they saved cutting LeSean McCoy.

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27 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

What WR have they drafted that is good? 

First let me say I am not opposed at taking a shot at Green.....he has been one of the best WR's in the league.....AT THE RIGHT PRICE

 

but

 

I totally understand the naysayers point of view as well....he does get hurt a lot

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17 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

I would guess it would be an 8 game rental........which would cost the Bills just under $6M in salary(his base for the entire year is $11.9M)...........which is basically what they saved cutting LeSean McCoy.

 

Fair point.  But then there would be the resources given up in addition....draft picks or players.

 

It would go against everything Beane says he wants to do to give up significant resources for an 8 game rental (leaving aside the Q of Greene learning the playbook and being in football shape and ready to play at a high level halfway through the season).

 

Now no one is forcing him to be consistent - but he does seem to roll that way.

 

27 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

So cap space is the excuse now even though they have loads of it available? 

 

I get it. It's a risk, but giving up even as high as a 3rd round pick for a guy who when healthy, is among the leagues better recievers isn't going to jeopardize the future.... Bills have no one close to him on the roster. 

 

So they are ok taking a risk with guys like Kroft and Morse with availability risks but not Green? Got it. 

 

Sounds like fans scared of the Bills making a big trade to potentially put them over the top. Need to hold onto that 3rd rounder. 😅

 

WTF, man, where do you get this at all from what I wrote, and what's with the smiley/laughy emoji at the end of kind of a taunting post?

 

The point isn't cap space, it's the value of the player for what is given up.  I can see Beane giving a 3rd rounder for a player who is signed for at least one additional year.  But for that much money, for a player who hasn't played a down this season, and who has the initiative to walk after this season, I can't see Beane going for it.

 

That's my assessment of Beane's MO, not some scared fan syndrome, and how you got from a post about the former to the latter is quite the mystery. 

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25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair point.  But then there would be the resources given up in addition....draft picks or players.

 

It would go against everything Beane says he wants to do to give up significant resources for an 8 game rental (leaving aside the Q of Greene learning the playbook and being in football shape and ready to play at a high level halfway through the season).

 

Now no one is forcing him to be consistent - but he does seem to roll that way.

 

 

 

The draft pick compensation would be the concern for sure............not the salary cap hit.   

 

I'd take him just as a rental but it would be also a chance to try out the likely top free agent offensive weapon and see if he is a fit and allow him to get comfortable in Buffalo.

 

It would also keep him away from the Patriots.   That doesn't sound like much of a reason until you remember Corey Dillon going from injured and seemingly in decline for the Bengals to a 1600 yard season with the Pats.   

 

I understand what you are saying about your perception of McBeane's personnel moves.........they've drafted well..........but I think it's just as easy to draw comparisons between what they have been trying to do and what the Patriots do.    I really don't know if McBeane is actually a draft pick hugger or if that was a function of drafting relatively high(or needing to in the case of trading up for Allen).

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I think the recent Knox and Darryl Johnson picks are a couple examples of it not being drafting high. I know not to quote the guy I’m referring to, because he finds it difficult to read my responses. But still......these guys can draft! I’m NOT giving up a 3rd who could be a crazy good player, LONG TERM and cheap (in return for a possibly healthy short term guy)!

 

 

.

Edited by Augie

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To me this all comes down to 1 thing.   Does Beane think we could win the superbowl THIS year?  If he does...draft picks and money mean nothing.  The defense is good enough.  Would Melvin Gordon and green make us good enough to beat Patriots?  I'd say our chances would increase dramatically...

 

That's the only question beane needs to answer...gut tells me he will put the chips on the table. 

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10 hours ago, Augie said:

 

A 3rd for a few games with an older guy in the last year of his deal who has demonstrated he misses a lot of games with injury? 

 

Sorry, I may be wrong but I pray we are smarter than that. We draft too well to waste that pick. 

You would most likely get a 3rd rd comp pick back if he left.

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9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair point.  But then there would be the resources given up in addition....draft picks or players.

 

It would go against everything Beane says he wants to do to give up significant resources for an 8 game rental (leaving aside the Q of Greene learning the playbook and being in football shape and ready to play at a high level halfway through the season).

 

Now no one is forcing him to be consistent - but he does seem to roll that way.

 

 

WTF, man, where do you get this at all from what I wrote, and what's with the smiley/laughy emoji at the end of kind of a taunting post?

 

The point isn't cap space, it's the value of the player for what is given up.  I can see Beane giving a 3rd rounder for a player who is signed for at least one additional year.  But for that much money, for a player who hasn't played a down this season, and who has the initiative to walk after this season, I can't see Beane going for it.

 

That's my assessment of Beane's MO, not some scared fan syndrome, and how you got from a post about the former to the latter is quite the mystery. 

Wasn't trying to offend.... I just dont really understand why fans would covet a 3rd round pick for a team with close to $90 million in cap space and on the cusp of being a legitimate conference contender for a guy who's been among the better WRs in the league..... a slight overpay, for a team who can absolutely afford to overpay, is well worth the risk when lacking a playmaker like AJ Green even if it is for 7-8 regular season games and playoffs. 

 

If your whole point is you dont think Beane is in favor of that then I apologize, I misinterpreted.... and if that's the case I'd be disappointed.

Edited by ScottLaw

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36 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Wasn't trying to offend.... I just dont really understand why fans would covet a 3rd round pick for a team with close to $90 million in cap space and on the cusp of being a legitimate conference contender for a guy who's been among the better WRs in the league..... a slight overpay, for a team who can absolutely afford to overpay, is well worth the risk when lacking a playmaker like AJ Green even if it is for 7-8 regular season games and playoffs. 

 

If your whole point is you dont think Beane is in favor of that then I apologize, I misinterpreted.... and if that's the case I'd be disappointed.

 

Well, Beane is the guy going for it or not, so it seems reasonable to look at whether it would fly from his viewpoint.   I dont' think you should be disappointed.

 

I think Beane and McDermott sold themselves to the Pegulas as taking the long view...building a contender slowly through the draft and through under-valued FA who can grow with the team, plus a handful of vets with great work ethic and attitude to teach the young guys how it's done.  Beane loves his draft picks, and he covets them.  He gave a 3rd for Kelvin Benjamin, whom he had seen up close and personal, because he thought Benjamin was just the wide-catch-radius big target WR that Allen needed.  For whatever reason, injuries, lack of fire in the belly, checking out....that didn't work.  At the time he commented that if Carolina hadn't picked up Benjamin's 5th year option giving him an extra year, he wouldn't have done the deal.  I don't see Beane giving a 3rd round pick for a very talented WR with a big recent injury history, but who may not be in shape to contribute at his former level this season even if he can play, and who is not signed beyond this season. 

 

I don't understand the $90M in cap space figure.  Overthecap puts us at $25M.  Beane likes his cap $$ too, for all the guys we're gonna re-sign.  While that certainly doesn't preclude us taking on a guy with a $12M salary ($8.25M left if we pick him up now) I don't think he'd see that as good value for an injured player with a muddy timeline to return, a question about how effective he'll be upon return, a need to learn our playbook, and not signed beyond this year.

 

And yes, I don't myself.  If Green were healthy and had been playing at a good level, the picture is different.  If he were signed beyond this season, likewise.

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11 hours ago, Golden Goat said:

I read somewhere that we won't make a serious playoff run if we don't trade for him and Melvin Gordon. Just sayin'.

Here's the thing, and I get where you guys are coming from. On the field A J Green is elite. Elite doesn't come cheap. Not even in a draft. Take Sammy Watkins for instance. I remember reading an article last year where 9 out of the 13 WR's picked in round 1 the 3 previous drafts have not had more then 40 receptions a season. Only one made the pro bowl. Thats not good return on a 1st round draft pick.

 

Does everyone realize we are trying to beat the Pats? Does our secondary need Tom Brady throwing to A J Green?

 

Just something to think about fellas. A healthy A J Green in the playoffs can make the difference IMO.

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11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

What WR have they drafted that is good? 

I look at this question more as, what WRs have they brought in, in such case three good ones in Brown, Beasley, and Williams, also Mc kittrick, and the punt returner, so not a bad group. Yes they failed in the Benjamin season, but have rebounded well imo, as they have remade pretty much the whole team during their short tenure, and we are coming up on a draft that is supposed to be rich in WRs, fingers crossed we score a good one, it’s always s bit of a crap shoot at the draft, we shall see. No need to vilify anyone.

 

Go Bills!!! 

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7 minutes ago, Figster said:

Here's the thing, and I get where you guys are coming from. On the field A J Green is elite. Elite doesn't come cheap. Not even in a draft. Take Sammy Watkins for instance. I remember reading an article last year where 9 out of the 13 WR's picked in round 1 the 3 previous drafts have not had more then 40 receptions a season. Only one made the pro bowl. Thats not good return on a 1st round draft pick.

 

Does everyone realize we are trying to beat the Pats? Does our secondary need Tom Brady throwing to A J Green?

 

Just something to think about fellas. A healthy A J Green in the playoffs can make the difference IMO.

I agree. I acknowledge the very reasonable arguments on the other side. I'm not going to bash Beane if he goes the other way on this, but it seems to me we find ourselves perhaps somewhat unexpectedly among the top eight teams or so in the league. It's a weak year in the NFL and with an elite defense, bolstering the offense with an elite skill wr could plausibly make a surprise Super Bowl run possible. All this, of course, predicated on Green truly being healthy, able to grasp the offense quickly, etc.

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49 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, Beane is the guy going for it or not, so it seems reasonable to look at whether it would fly from his viewpoint.   I dont' think you should be disappointed.

 

I think Beane and McDermott sold themselves to the Pegulas as taking the long view...building a contender slowly through the draft and through under-valued FA who can grow with the team, plus a handful of vets with great work ethic and attitude to teach the young guys how it's done.  Beane loves his draft picks, and he covets them.  He gave a 3rd for Kelvin Benjamin, whom he had seen up close and personal, because he thought Benjamin was just the wide-catch-radius big target WR that Allen needed.  For whatever reason, injuries, lack of fire in the belly, checking out....that didn't work.  At the time he commented that if Carolina hadn't picked up Benjamin's 5th year option giving him an extra year, he wouldn't have done the deal.  I don't see Beane giving a 3rd round pick for a very talented WR with a big recent injury history, but who may not be in shape to contribute at his former level this season even if he can play, and who is not signed beyond this season. 

 

I don't understand the $90M in cap space figure.  Overthecap puts us at $25M.  Beane likes his cap $$ too, for all the guys we're gonna re-sign.  While that certainly doesn't preclude us taking on a guy with a $12M salary ($8.25M left if we pick him up now) I don't think he'd see that as good value for an injured player with a muddy timeline to return, a question about how effective he'll be upon return, a need to learn our playbook, and not signed beyond this year.

 

And yes, I don't myself.  If Green were healthy and had been playing at a good level, the picture is different.  If he were signed beyond this season, likewise.

Close to 90 million next offseason.

 

Fair enough. I don't think you can just slow build it through draft picks and OK veteran FAs who fit the culture. At some point and opportunity presents itself and you have to make a big move and go all in. 

 

Bills are 4-1, tied for 2nd best record in the AFC and have an easy schedule going forward for the next 6/7 weeks or so. They can really separate themselves and take advantage. IMO, they have a few holes and their biggest and most glaring is WR.

 

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10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The draft pick compensation would be the concern for sure............not the salary cap hit.   

 

I'd take him just as a rental but it would be also a chance to try out the likely top free agent offensive weapon and see if he is a fit and allow him to get comfortable in Buffalo.

 

It would also keep him away from the Patriots.   That doesn't sound like much of a reason until you remember Corey Dillon going from injured and seemingly in decline for the Bengals to a 1600 yard season with the Pats.   

 

I understand what you are saying about your perception of McBeane's personnel moves.........they've drafted well..........but I think it's just as easy to draw comparisons between what they have been trying to do and what the Patriots do.    I really don't know if McBeane is actually a draft pick hugger or if that was a function of drafting relatively high(or needing to in the case of trading up for Allen).

Let's not forget that Beane ALREADY gave up a third for a far inferior WR to get over the hump in 2017.  Green is by all accounts a "process guy" who, when healthy, is one of the best receivers of the last decade. Do you think the Cowboys regret trading a first for Amari Cooper last season? 

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, Beane is the guy going for it or not, so it seems reasonable to look at whether it would fly from his viewpoint.   I dont' think you should be disappointed.

 

I think Beane and McDermott sold themselves to the Pegulas as taking the long view...building a contender slowly through the draft and through under-valued FA who can grow with the team, plus a handful of vets with great work ethic and attitude to teach the young guys how it's done.  Beane loves his draft picks, and he covets them.  He gave a 3rd for Kelvin Benjamin, whom he had seen up close and personal, because he thought Benjamin was just the wide-catch-radius big target WR that Allen needed.  For whatever reason, injuries, lack of fire in the belly, checking out....that didn't work.  At the time he commented that if Carolina hadn't picked up Benjamin's 5th year option giving him an extra year, he wouldn't have done the deal.  I don't see Beane giving a 3rd round pick for a very talented WR with a big recent injury history, but who may not be in shape to contribute at his former level this season even if he can play, and who is not signed beyond this season. 

 

I don't understand the $90M in cap space figure.  Overthecap puts us at $25M.  Beane likes his cap $$ too, for all the guys we're gonna re-sign.  While that certainly doesn't preclude us taking on a guy with a $12M salary ($8.25M left if we pick him up now) I don't think he'd see that as good value for an injured player with a muddy timeline to return, a question about how effective he'll be upon return, a need to learn our playbook, and not signed beyond this year.

 

And yes, I don't myself.  If Green were healthy and had been playing at a good level, the picture is different.  If he were signed beyond this season, likewise.

Well, it is a long-view notion to trade for him because he presents no cap hit or commitment beyond this season and the Bills are so far under the cap that the money is effectively meaningless. A wise approach to the long view is to exploit relatively low-cost opportunities to win in short-window time frames provided the team is good. Judging from their remaining schedule, I have the Bills getting to 11-5 in fairly comfortable fashion. Winning a playoff game seems like a legit goal, and for that, you need some elite talent on offense. 

Edited by dave mcbride
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10 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Close to 90 million next offseason.

 

Fair enough. I don't think you can just slow build it through draft picks and OK veteran FAs who fit the culture. At some point and opportunity presents itself and you have to make a big move and go all in. 

 

Bills are 4-1, tied for 2nd best record in the AFC and have an easy schedule going forward for the next 6/7 weeks or so. They can really separate themselves and take advantage. IMO, they have a few holes and their biggest and most glaring is WR.

 

Well, that's one of the underlying debate themes on this board, right?  McD and Beane are acting as though, in fact, you can slow build it through draft picks and undervalued and OK vet FAs who fit the culture.  They wagered that they could gut the roster of talented but expensive players and bring in enough new talent quickly enough to stay within the "shelf life" the Pegulas will allow them.

 

Others here disagree with their strategy and think it won't work.

 

I don't think McDermott and Beane feel we're in a place where a "big move" will get them over the top.  I think Daboll believes in group play at WR rather than in "one true star", and I'm not sure he's wrong - one true star who is always open absolutely makes a difference, but when that one star is taken away by other teams or lands on IR, then what?  I think he wants his developing QB to learn to see the field, progress in his reads, and take whatever the D offers.

 

Myself, I think that the "big move" the Bills need is really between Josh Allen's ears - will the message he got while in concussion protocol, and seemed to demonstrate on the field in Tenn, hold good?  If we do need a "big move" on the roster, I would argue it is more likely to be a piece on our still-unsettled OL and an elite pass-rusher or LB than to be an elite WR.  I have confidence that McBeane see the need for the pass rusher, I'm as yet uncertain they value OL quite as highly as they should, despite the focus on it this off-season.

 

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