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prissythecat

Is Cam Newton Done

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46 minutes ago, Nick the Greek said:

Took the Panthers to a Super Bowl.. that’s a pretty legit accomplishment for any QB I’d say. 

 

 

Yup. Winning the NFL MVP also a reasonably good indicator.

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4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

But, surely, you can agree that his off-field attire has nothing to do with his level of commitment/dedication to football and his team ... right?

Absolutely, he is a competitor. I believe he is fully dedicated, but he's body is starting to break down after getting beaten down for 8 years in the NFL & he can't do what he used to do. But when you struggle on the field, you will get called out for dressing like my grandmother off the field. 

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2 minutes ago, IDBillzFan said:

 

After watching him last night you'd be more accurate saying Cam Newton is MY ceiling on a football field, and my entire football playing experience began and ended with helping my father stage the local Punt Pass and Kick competition in the mid-70s.

 

He was throwing like Stevie Wonder last night. It's incredible to me that they couldn't punch it in at the end. I'm still surprised they didn't fire Riverboat Ron last night. When you are supposed to be a legit contender and you lose both opening games at home...yeesh. 

I can’t see Ron lasting past this year. If they start 0-5 it would be tough to justify keeping him. In regards to Cam, oof, he looked awful last night. Absolutely awful. Missing so many open throws, so many timing errors, inability to finish drives, unwillingness to run. Without his running Cam is an average QB and nothing more. The fact that his own coach took him out of the play at the most important time says everything we need to know. 4th and 1 and the game is on the line do you think Belichick is lining Brady out wide? McDermott lining Allen our wide? His own coach thinks he’s done. His own coach might be done as well. 

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He was never “that good” to begin with in terms of a passer.  He was definitely a good QB with his duel threat capabilities.  But as a passer he never really got a point of reliable consistency outside his MVP season.

 

IMO, his arm talent was never good enough to over come a slight drop in efficiency.  And now with the injuries seeming have taken a toll, it’s really taken him from a top 10 QB (again, top 10 due to his duel threat abilities, not top 10 passer) to a Jameis Winston type tier.  I’m sure he’s still capable of having some big games, but he just doesn’t look like a guy you expect to lead this team to another SB anymore.

 

Long season, and I actually thought he was going to make a nice bounce back season this year with him being healthy.  But two games in and he still looks like he did last year IMO.  

 

Maybe he just needs to find his rhythm still and get his groove back.  So not gonna say he is “done”, but he certainly doesn’t look like he is bouncing back yet either.

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I was pretty stunned they gave the ball to McCaffrey rather than let 6'5 245lb Cam take it on the 4th and goal at the end of the game...I think that said a lot about where he is physically

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Yes.

 

If he can't run, he's a bottom 10 passer among starting QBs, which isn't good enough to win with at the NFL level.

 

His body is destroyed, or he's just no longer willing to put it on the line he did when he first got into the league.

 

You can't win with a QB who has a passer rating in the mid 80s in todays NFL, unless they're an electric runner. 

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54 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

Sadly, the most optimistic reviews of Allen is that Cam Newton would be his ceiling. Let's hope Josh can raise that bar. 

 

 

Those were hardly the most optimistic reviews. You could probably say those were the most likely positive career scenario for Josh, something like that. And again, the MVP indicates clearly that Cam was very good in his time. If he has indeed run out of gas, that wouldn't mean that Josh is also going to run out of gas after his ninth year.

 

Plenty of other paths to success for Josh.

 

 

45 minutes ago, Golden*Wheels said:

His hat game just keeps getting better.

 

I can't believe no one in that locker room ever said to Cam..."Dude. Stop it. You're Embarrassing us."

 

 

Yes.

Edited by Thurman#1

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2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

He was never “that good” to begin with in terms of a passer.  He was definitely a good QB with his duel threat capabilities.  But as a passer he never really got a point of reliable consistency outside his MVP season.

 

IMO, his arm talent was never good enough to over come a slight drop in efficiency.  And now with the injuries seeming have taken a toll, it’s really taken him from a top 10 QB (again, top 10 due to his duel threat abilities, not top 10 passer) to a Jameis Winston type tier.  I’m sure he’s still capable of having some big games, but he just doesn’t look like a guy you expect to lead this team to another SB anymore.

 

Long season, and I actually thought he was going to make a nice bounce back season this year with him being healthy.  But two games in and he still looks like he did last year IMO.  

 

Maybe he just needs to find his rhythm still and get his groove back.  So not gonna say he is “done”, but he certainly doesn’t look like he is bouncing back yet either.

I think he's done.  The problem for any quarterback is that as he gets older, he has to get better at the mental game.  His physical skills are going to deteriorate, and the edge that keeps him in the game is his ability to read defenses, anticipate and make the right throw, accurately.   If you've succeeded as a young QB because of your thinking ability, like Brady, you have a head start.   When you've succeeded because of superior physical skills, you've got to work hard at improving your mental game, because your physical game is going to decline more than a guy like Brady.  

 

You could see this progression in Peyton's game.   He had a great arm and it slowly deteriorated.   He never was very mobile.   But he grew into a true coach on the field, and that's how he survived.   You can see it in Ben, too.   He just can't do all the things he used to be able to do, but he is surviving on his ability to run an offense and to understand defenses.   He looks to me like he's approaching the end.   

 

Cam just never was a field general, and I can't see him becoming one now.  

 

It's encouraging to me that the Bills are placing all their emphasis of Allen's mental game, his ability to read defenses, to anticipate things, to run the team on the field.   That's the hill he has to climb to be a true franchise QB, and he's on his way.  If he can climb to the top remains to be seen, but I'm encouraged.   Honestly, I don't think Cam ever started climbing that hill. 

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I think he has the ability. 

 

He looks to me like a guy who's tired of playing football. Same for Big Ben.

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Nick the Greek said:

Took the Panthers to a Super Bowl.. that’s a pretty legit accomplishment for any QB I’d say. 

So didnt Doug William's;)

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31 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think he's done.  The problem for any quarterback is that as he gets older, he has to get better at the mental game.  His physical skills are going to deteriorate, and the edge that keeps him in the game is his ability to read defenses, anticipate and make the right throw, accurately.   If you've succeeded as a young QB because of your thinking ability, like Brady, you have a head start.   When you've succeeded because of superior physical skills, you've got to work hard at improving your mental game, because your physical game is going to decline more than a guy like Brady.  

 

You could see this progression in Peyton's game.   He had a great arm and it slowly deteriorated.   He never was very mobile.   But he grew into a true coach on the field, and that's how he survived.   You can see it in Ben, too.   He just can't do all the things he used to be able to do, but he is surviving on his ability to run an offense and to understand defenses.   He looks to me like he's approaching the end.   

 

Cam just never was a field general, and I can't see him becoming one now.  

 

It's encouraging to me that the Bills are placing all their emphasis of Allen's mental game, his ability to read defenses, to anticipate things, to run the team on the field.   That's the hill he has to climb to be a true franchise QB, and he's on his way.  If he can climb to the top remains to be seen, but I'm encouraged.   Honestly, I don't think Cam ever started climbing that hill. 

 

 

Nicely put. Good post.

 

It's hard to get a sense from the outside of exactly how much of a tactician or master of the mental game he is, but he's never given much of an indication that he's really good at that area, and you're right on that you've got to improve there as your physical abilities wane, which they will.

 

Never liked Cam as a person, but he was fun to watch in the games. Not so much so far this year.

Edited by Thurman#1

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Think the Panthers would trade us Cam for Allen + a 1st?

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10 minutes ago, dpberr said:

I think he has the ability. 

 

He looks to me like a guy who's tired of playing football. Same for Big Ben.

 

 

I think it's more that he feels the need to protect his shoulder. His legs aren't the issue now, and he's gotta be highly aware that shoulders take a beating in the NFL on running plays. 

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I'd like to see a game where Daryl Williams isn't playing like a scared bullfighter to decide on Cam.  That might have been the worst display of Left Tackling I have seen in the NFL in a while...it was painful to watch and it gave Cam the yips on a lot of throws...

 

Credit Cam after the game...he threw noone but himself under the bus.

Edited by JoeF

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13 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I think he's done.  The problem for any quarterback is that as he gets older, he has to get better at the mental game.  His physical skills are going to deteriorate, and the edge that keeps him in the game is his ability to read defenses, anticipate and make the right throw, accurately.   If you've succeeded as a young QB because of your thinking ability, like Brady, you have a head start.   When you've succeeded because of superior physical skills, you've got to work hard at improving your mental game, because your physical game is going to decline more than a guy like Brady.  

 

You could see this progression in Peyton's game.   He had a great arm and it slowly deteriorated.   He never was very mobile.   But he grew into a true coach on the field, and that's how he survived.   You can see it in Ben, too.   He just can't do all the things he used to be able to do, but he is surviving on his ability to run an offense and to understand defenses.   He looks to me like he's approaching the end.   

 

Cam just never was a field general, and I can't see him becoming one now.  

 

It's encouraging to me that the Bills are placing all their emphasis of Allen's mental game, his ability to read defenses, to anticipate things, to run the team on the field.   That's the hill he has to climb to be a true franchise QB, and he's on his way.  If he can climb to the top remains to be seen, but I'm encouraged.   Honestly, I don't think Cam ever started climbing that hill. 

 

Good post.

 

Simply put, Cam has never been a good passer. A career QB Rating of 86 pretty clearly shows that.

 

What he has been is a good dual threat QB because he was such an incredible runner early in his career. However, as the injuries and concussions have piled up, he seems less willing to put his body on the line, and if defenses can rush him like they would a regular QB, vs having to play contain and keep him in the pocket, he's going to have less time to throw, and they're going to do what we've seen from other QBs in the past where they make a running QB "play Quarterback". 

 

As you said, Cam has never been a field general. He's been a play maker at the QB position, which is different. If he's asked to drop back 50 times like he did yesterday, with that supporting cast, he's going to struggle badly. He's not that type of player, and as you said he hasn't progressed enough on the mental side of the game to make up for his deficiencies reading the field and throwing with accuracy. 

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1 hour ago, Nick the Greek said:

Took the Panthers to a Super Bowl.. that’s a pretty legit accomplishment for any QB I’d say. 

 

35 minutes ago, aceman_16 said:

So didnt Doug William's;)

 

 

You're right that Doug Williams "didnt" take the Skins to the SB that year. He QB'd them very successfully in the playoffs, but that's it.

 

Williams didn't "take them" to the Super Bowl. During the season that year he started two games. Very questionable if they'd have made the SB with Williams at QB all year. Like  Hostetler's Giants, if Simms doesn't get them to the SB, we probably wouldn't even know Hostetler's name.

 

During the season that year, Jay Schroeder went 8-3, someone I don't even remember named Ed Rubbert went 3-0 and Doug Williams went 0-2.

 

You have to give Cam credit for QBing them to the SB.

 

 

Edited by Thurman#1

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1 hour ago, aceman_16 said:

I have never liked Cam to begin with.... so I question if he ever started.

Right there with you.

 

As I wrote in the TNF thread, he has always been a frustrating combination of unrealized potential and inconsistent play.

 

A "skills" QB to be sure.

 

 

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I don't know about "done" but he is most certainly NOT a top-tier quarterback.

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42 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

But, surely, you can agree that his off-field attire has nothing to do with his level of commitment/dedication to football and his team ... right?

No I can’t. Imo, it is his level of commitment/dedication to football -specifically the evident lack thereof- which finds him on the brink of retirement, if not a seat on the bench.

Yes, to the OPs question.

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1 hour ago, uticaclub said:

Sadly, the most optimistic reviews of Allen is that Cam Newton would be his ceiling. Let's hope Josh can raise that bar. 

Please, Josh, do not win the MVP like Cam. Do not take us to a Super Bowl. Do not go 15-1 in a season. That may be fine if you’re QBing a perpetual loser like Carolina, but here in Buffalo we’ve been spoiled by decades of excellence, from Collins to Van Pelt, from Johnson to JP, from Trent to Tyrod. 

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1 hour ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

He had surgery on throwing shoulder in offseason and another injury in preseason. I don’t think he’s healed all the way. His arm has looked weak at times. 

He has played hurt quite a bit the last few seasons. He looks old and broken right now. His body has taken and given out a lot of abuse so far in his career. Something isn't right.

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For such an average QB he is quite arrogant.  Without that sense of humility, I question if he is even aware of what areas he needs to improve upon to grow..

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1 hour ago, Golden*Wheels said:

I can't believe no one in that locker room ever said to Cam..."Dude. Stop it. You're Embarrassing us."

 

This! 

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