bbb Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 5 hours ago, NewEra said: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/1965_AFL/probowl.htm got me interested in this team. Is this link wrong? Looks like it says the Bills has 36 players make the pro bowl in 1965. Lol Lot of depth on that team 6 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: Mario Clark, Charlie Romes, Jeff Nixon, Steve Freeman and Rod Kush were pretty good.... Bill Simpson should be in that group, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, bbb said: Lot of depth on that team Bill Simpson should be in that group, too I didn't put him there because I'm pretty sure he wasn't signed until after both Nixon and Kush tore their knees up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted August 19, 2019 Author Share Posted August 19, 2019 32 minutes ago, BarkleyForGOATBackupPT5P said: Probably. One more CB and I'd definitely crown them. Still wish we kept Gilmore or Darby around to make it the next Legion of Boom. You get 2 CB1s lined up every down with pro bowl safeties around them and you have a competitive advantage only teams like Seattle back in the day, Denver's No Fly Zone with Aqib Talib and Chris Harris Jr, Pats with Gilmore / Browner / Revis / Butler / Chung / Mcourtney / Logan.. I think it's a smart way to build a great team. But yeah they're great. Poyer and Hyde have been my favorite signings from this regime. The Safety position went from hopeless to one of the NFL best overnight. McD let Gilmore walk and then blew a 3rd round comp pick to keep a 6th WR and a terrible Guard. But McD also signed Hype and Poyer. I really liked the Hyde signing at the time and I did not think much of the Poyer signing. I wish we could find out the truth as to how much of these moves were Whaley and how much was McD. They had the cap room to keep Gilmore at least on a franchise tag. Oh well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, That's No Moon said: I didn't put him there because I'm pretty sure he wasn't signed until after both Nixon and Kush tore their knees up. Nixon, for sure, but my memory is that he came in and played great in his place - about 10 games in '80 and then didn't he make the INT vs. the Jets at the end in the playoffs in '81? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That's No Moon Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Just now, bbb said: Nixon, for sure, but my memory is that he came in and played great in his place - about 10 games in '80 and then didn't he make the INT vs. the Jets at the end in the playoffs in '81? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Just now, That's No Moon said: Yes Then put him on your list! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 48 minutes ago, bbb said: Lot of depth on that team Bill Simpson should be in that group, too Thirty-six Bills made the pro bowl in 1965!! Can anyone tell me how this is possible? Did 90 players per conference make it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 5 hours ago, NewEra said: For sure. That’s what the stat should be imo. Times voted in NOT as an alternate and even than, it can be tricky. Ruben Brown was named to the initially team more than a few times where he didn’t deserve it. He was named based on his past play imo That... and a huge party that he used to throw every year when he was in Hawaii. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 2010: McKelvin, McGee, Whitner, Byrd 2013: Gilmore, McKelvin, Byrd, Leonard not saying they are 100% better but those were some pretty good DBs at the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Winfield & Clements were bomb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Not the most talent but potentially the best combination of talent and secondary specific coaching/scheme. McD is basically a secondary coach...........this situation is a lot like the special teams when Marv was HC. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, That's No Moon said: Mario Clark, Charlie Romes, Jeff Nixon, Steve Freeman and Rod Kush were pretty good.... Indeed! For my money, Saimes, Janik, Edgerson & Byrd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 1 hour ago, That's No Moon said: Yes I just looked up their stats. Kush never even started a game - until a few in 1983. Simpson started 11 games in 1980. (Coinciding with my memory of him stepping in for NIxon after Nixon tore his ACL in the Chargers game - game 5). He also started all 16 in 1981 and 9 (I think that's all they played) in 1982. Get Kush out of there. Bill Simpson was the man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
from_dunkirk Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 7 hours ago, freddyjj said: Lol. Every guy in Bills secondary made it that year. Never happened with any other nfl team in same year since. So that 65 team was unreal. In 1984 the entire San Francisco 49'ers secondary made the Pro Bowl: Ronnie Lot Eric Wright Carlton Williamson Dwight Hicks https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sfo/1984_roster.htm 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I was just going to nominate the '74 Bills. Tony Greene had 9 INTS. I could have swore he at least made the Pro Bowl, but I don't see it.............Robert James was 1st Team All Pro................Dwight Harrison I remember as being good. But, I can't figure out who even played strong safety. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I'll let you know in Nov or Dec. 12 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: White is a legit top 5 CB. Hyde and Poyer are both top 20 safeties, not elite but fringe ProBowl players. And the depth for legit CBs is 4 or 5 deep. Gaines coming off IR late in the season is like getting a Christmas present that was forgotten in the closet. Winfield/Clements was a great CB duo but the safeties were terrible - Milloy in decline and Coy Wire was awful. Odomes was very good but the rest of the secondary was average or below. Butch Byrd is greatest DB in Bills history. But I really don't know much else about the rest of the guys he played with. I thought the Bills AFL defense's were built around DL and LBs, but I may be wrong. Didnt Gaines get released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formerlyofCtown Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 11 hours ago, SoTier said: In 1992, the Bills had Kirby Jackson, Nate Odomes who made the Pro Bowl in 1992, Henry Jones, an All Pro SS in 1992, and Mark Kelso. That was probably the best secondary the Bills had since the merger. Jackson's suffered a career ending injury after leaving Buffalo for Seattle, so he only played 5 years. I don't care who the Bills other safety was in 2003 but Winfield, Clements, and Milloy were all Pro Bowlers either for the Bills or for other teams, so I'd rate them second best. Winfield's last season with the Bills was 2003. He went on to start for 9 more seasons with Minnesota and was a three time Pro Bowler. Clements last season with the Bills was 2006. He went on to start 4 more seasons for San Francisco and 1 more for Cincinatti. Milloy played for the Bills for 3 seasons, 2003-2005. He then went on to start for 3 seasons in Atlanta and played 2 more seasons in Seattle, starting 15 games in 2010, so he was hardly "washed up" in 2003. Since none of the current Bills DBs has been a Pro Bowler or been named a top 100 player, it's hard to make the case that they are "the best secondary ever". They play well in McDermott's scheme but except for White, they don't seem to be outstanding individuals. Other Bills squads have had 1 outstanding individual among pretty average players that played well as a unit. Y'know for a team that supposedly has this "elite level" secondary and an "elite" defense, the Bills sure couldn't stop teams from scoring on them in the Red Zone in 2018. Maybe that's why the rest of the NFL and media ignore them when it comes to handing out honors. You do realize that now the PB is voted on by fans. Even the top 100 isnt completely legit as players vote on it and many players that belong are overlooked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bills Blog Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 12 hours ago, The Jokeman said: As a group yes, I'm not 100% sold on Levi as a starter but like our nickel and dime CBs yet I think scheme and coaching also plays a part as McDermott McDermott/Frasier know zone coverage. Would you feel differently if he weren't undrafted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 So in inferring the conclusion is no... not the best ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I haven’t been around as long as some on this board, but I think I can safely say this is the best defensive backfield I’ve ever seen for the Bills. Watching them in person was even more impressive. On TV, you only see that second that the ball gets there. But watching the progression of plays live on Friday night was eye-opening as far as how good they are. That was my biggest takeaway leaving BofA Stadium Friday night - how good our DBs are. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 10 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said: McD let Gilmore walk and then blew a 3rd round comp pick to keep a 6th WR and a terrible Guard. But McD also signed Hype and Poyer. I really liked the Hyde signing at the time and I did not think much of the Poyer signing. I wish we could find out the truth as to how much of these moves were Whaley and how much was McD. They had the cap room to keep Gilmore at least on a franchise tag. Oh well I'm not sure either, although I would give credit to McDermott if I had to choose. He's still coaching the scheme very successfully with these guys which mean something. He was the one there for Tre White, Poyer, and Hyde. But again the regime still seems to hit on all their dumpster diving. I was partial to Taron Johnson last year.. I can't think of a secondary addition that didn't exceed expectations.. except Vontae Davis lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Not the most talent but potentially the best combination of talent and secondary specific coaching/scheme. McD is basically a secondary coach...........this situation is a lot like the special teams when Marv was HC. Also not surprising that both McD and Jauron chose to rebuild the secondary as their first order of business given their being DBs as players and then coaches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR8 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 I'd say the best was the 2004 Nate Clements - Antoine Winfield - Terrence McGee CB Trio with Lawyer Milloy and Izell Reese at safety Reese being the only weakness, which was address with Troy Vincent, but after they lost Winfield to FA... in 2005 they had Clements, McGee, and Jabari Greer, with Milloy and Vincent, which was also great, but I think the Winfield, Clements, McGee with Milloy outweighs them by a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
947 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 The AFL had 8 teams, making the Pro Bowl back then was much easier than today based on # of players competing for those spots. Can't really count Pro Bowl appearances when comparing 1965 players to 2019 players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 3 hours ago, The Bills Blog said: Would you feel differently if he weren't undrafted? No, it's just his play on the Torrey Smith pass and others make me worry that he's the weak link of the secondary. Yet as bad as he looked on said play he still was able to cause an incompletion but it was worth seeing him out of position and having to turn himself around to make a play etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 59 minutes ago, 947 said: The AFL had 8 teams, making the Pro Bowl back then was much easier than today based on # of players competing for those spots. Can't really count Pro Bowl appearances when comparing 1965 players to 2019 players. Well, if you’re gonna get all technical, the AFL had AllStars, not Pro Bowls. No ALF star made a Pro Bowl until the ‘70 merger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Well, if you’re gonna get all technical, the AFL had AllStars, not Pro Bowls. No ALF star made a Pro Bowl until the ‘70 merger. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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