BN reports Jim Kelly to “collaborate” with Josh Allen and Brian Daboll...Tim Graham shoots it down

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

He's a GM. Not a former player who hangs around the facility.

 

NOT the same thing.

 

 

Your opinion is worthless to me, honestly. Sorry.

 

Ditto.  Thankfully you have nothing to do with the operation of the team.  Or maybe you should be the one giving Allen tidbits from time to time.  You obviously must think you're more qualified than a HOF QB.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Ditto.  Thankfully you have nothing to do with the operation of the team.  Or maybe you should be the one giving Allen tidbits from time to time.  You obviously must think you're more qualified than a HOF QB.

 

Then WHY pray tell did you feel the need to respond to my opinion?

 

Just to be an ass?

 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Then WHY pray tell did you feel the need to respond to my opinion?

 

Just to be an ass?

 

Because you are completely off base.  If you had a company with a young CEO learning the ropes, would you not think it would be good to have a former retired successful CEO maybe talk with him about what he learned in his career?

 

 

 

[Haplo848]

So I know this might sound like blasphemy to some, but I wonder how much Jim would actually be able to contribute at this point if he were brought in.  The game moves pretty quickly, and every year you see some new scheme on offense come out as the next big thing, only to have next year some defensive adjustment that crushes that offense, just to see the following year new offensive adjustments that outmaneuvers that stellar defense from the year before, and so on. 

I could see Jim helping out Josh in how to go about making sure he does all the little things right to keep him healthy through the season, how to get the most out of his career, etc.  But the fact of the matter is that Jim has been out of the league for 20+ years.  I just can't see him being able to contribute as much when it comes to the particulars of picking apart today's defenses...

[NoHuddleKelly12]

19 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

He's a GM. Not a former player who hangs around the facility.

 

NOT the same thing.

 

 

 

Perhaps structurally but no one can tell me that Elway's not out there from time to time, mixing in with the QB room and making himself available to be used as a resource concerning his NFL experience...he's the boss there after all, which comes with certain privileges of access

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Haplo848 said:

So I know this might sound like blasphemy to some, but I wonder how much Jim would actually be able to contribute at this point if he were brought in.  The game moves pretty quickly, and every year you see some new scheme on offense come out as the next big thing, only to have next year some defensive adjustment that crushes that offense, just to see the following year new offensive adjustments that outmaneuvers that stellar defense from the year before, and so on. 

I could see Jim helping out Josh in how to go about making sure he does all the little things right to keep him healthy through the season, how to get the most out of his career, etc.  But the fact of the matter is that Jim has been out of the league for 20+ years.  I just can't see him being able to contribute as much when it comes to the particulars of picking apart today's defenses...

EXACTLY.

 

1 minute ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Perhaps structurally but no one can tell me that Elway's not out there from time to time, mixing in with the QB room and making himself available to be used as a resource concerning his NFL experience...he's the boss there after all, which comes with certain privileges of access

Exactly. Kelly is nothing OTHER than a retired player at this point, and as such should have all the access of anyone else NOT employed by the organization, IMO.

 

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Because you are completely off base.  If you had a company with a young CEO learning the ropes, would you not think it would be good to have a former retired successful CEO maybe talk with him about what he learned in his career?

 

 

No, because the whole idea behind changing a CEO is to get a new perspective.

 

Bringing in the old guy taints that, and sorry, I don't want ANY taint from that team working its way into this one.

 

[Pirate Angel]

Test for the 90s crew to drift off into the sunset, the new Bills need to do what works for them not used to work. A young team needs to huddle up for communication purposes...the no huddle just doesn't make sense when you play Brady twice a year ...who in they're right mine would want there defense on the field more? 

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

EXACTLY.

 

Exactly. Kelly is nothing OTHER than a retired player at this point, and as such should have all the access of anyone else NOT employed by the organization, IMO.

 

 

No, because the whole idea behind changing a CEO is to get a new perspective.

 

Bringing in the old guy taints that, and sorry, I don't want ANY taint from that team working its way into this one.

 

Whatever.  Kelly has leadership skills, Allen will be the leader of this team.  Pick his brain about that.  Questions I'd ask Jim if I were Allen:

 

1.  How did hosting parties after every home game help bring the team together?

2.  As a young QB what's the best way to call out veterans if I need to?

 

Just a couple of many leadership type questions one could ask.  Effective leadership skills don't have an expiration date.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

8 minutes ago, Pirate Angel said:

Test for the 90s crew to drift off into the sunset, the new Bills need to do what works for them not used to work. A young team needs to huddle up for communication purposes...the no huddle just doesn't make sense when you play Brady twice a year ...who in they're right mine would want there defense on the field more? 

Points. If you have a D which is finally competent enough to contain/pressure/make TB12's life difficult, then you need to maximize your offense's opportunities/number of chances to make plays, which by definition, if you have more plays to run, should result in more points, which you need a lot of usually to beat the Pats. 

[Lurker]

Neither of those two guys (especially timmah) work hard enough.    

 

I enjoy The Athletic, but one new Bills-related article a week by Graham--even during the season--is a joke...

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 hour ago, Joe in Winslow said:

So you mean to tell me you can't see ANY downside to this?

no, not really. of course I'm not opposed nor have ill feelings toward the presence or interaction of past players such as you and a few others who have been so adamant about it.

 

doesn't bother me, at all.

43 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

He's a GM. Not a former player who hangs around the facility.

 

NOT the same thing.

 

 

Your opinion is worthless to me, honestly. Sorry.

 

as is yours, so there's that.

Edited June 4, 2019 by DaBillsFanSince1973

[May Day 10]

I love Jim Kelly.  He has come such a long way as a man and is a truly inspirational person and a tough son of a B word.

 

 

However, I have always maintained that he should never be put in a role with the organization in any larger capacity as a dignitary.

[Bills Analyst]

54 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Your inner fanboy is showing here. Name me ONE other NFL team that operates like this. Think Steve Grogan  came and held young Tom Brady's hand? Think Joe Namath is out there sharing sage advice with Darnold? How about Marino with Rosen?

 

Well there is this one as well.  

 

“Rodgers said that Bart Starr, who led the Packers to victories in the first two Super Bowls, has served as a mentor to him.

 

“It’s a privilege,” Rodgers said. “Bart has been incredible to me — in the last three years especially — with the e-mails and conversations that I’ve been able to share with him. He’s an incredible man and a guy I’d love to model my career after.””

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/01/rodgers-gets-advice-from-starr-warner-young-but-not-favre/

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

no, not really. of course I'm not opposed nor have ill feelings toward the presence or interaction of past players such as you and a few others who have been so adamant about it.

 

doesn't bother me, at all.

as is yours, so there's that.

 

Again, you jokers are the ones responding to me, not vice-versa.

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Again, you jokers are the ones responding to me, not vice-versa.

 

actually mac, you quoted me and I responded. I'm a joker, I'm a smoker, I'm a midnight toker.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

actually mac, you quoted me and I responded. I'm a joker, I'm a smoker, I'm a midnight toker.

 

No you're not. You're a senior citizen.

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

No you're not. You're a senior citizen.

 

well, nothing wrong with that. if you're lucky, you may live to be one?

[oldmanfan]

18 minutes ago, bmacdona said:

Well there is this one as well.  

 

“Rodgers said that Bart Starr, who led the Packers to victories in the first two Super Bowls, has served as a mentor to him.

 

“It’s a privilege,” Rodgers said. “Bart has been incredible to me — in the last three years especially — with the e-mails and conversations that I’ve been able to share with him. He’s an incredible man and a guy I’d love to model my career after.””

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/02/01/rodgers-gets-advice-from-starr-warner-young-but-not-favre/

Thanks.  Joeinwinslow asked for ONE team (his capitals, not mine) that had a former great QB come in to help mentor a younger guy.  Game, set, match. 

[Gugny]

I don't see any harm in Kelly speaking to Allen.

 

That said - I don't see any real benefit, either.  I've said for years that I was tired of hearing what Thurman, Kelly and Reed thought about the team.  I never cared what they thought.  Even if they'd won a Super Bowl ... I wouldn't care what they thought.  They're yesterday's news.

 

I agree with JSP that this team needs to find its own identity.  They don't need a torch passed from a team that was good 30 years ago.

 

I also agree that this isn't something we see with other teams in the league.  My feeling is that it's a Big Fish/Little Pond situation.

 

I was tired of it 10 years ago.  I simply don't see the benefit.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Thanks.  Joeinwinslow asked for ONE team (his capitals, not mine) that had a former great QB come in to help mentor a younger guy.  Game, set, match. 

 

 

OK, gramps.

 

You found ONE. Congratulations.

 

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

 

OK, gramps.

 

You found ONE. Congratulations.

 

Next time don't make declarative statement that you then have to retract. 

7 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I don't see any harm in Kelly speaking to Allen.

 

That said - I don't see any real benefit, either.  I've said for years that I was tired of hearing what Thurman, Kelly and Reed thought about the team.  I never cared what they thought.  Even if they'd won a Super Bowl ... I wouldn't care what they thought.  They're yesterday's news.

 

I agree with JSP that this team needs to find its own identity.  They don't need a torch passed from a team that was good 30 years ago.

 

I also agree that this isn't something we see with other teams in the league.  My feeling is that it's a Big Fish/Little Pond situation.

 

I was tired of it 10 years ago.  I simply don't see the benefit.

From a football perspective I see your point.  But Kelly also led a team that had its share of interesting personalities, and insight into how he approached leadership could certainly be helpful to a young guy that has to now shoulder that responsibility.

[NoHuddleKelly12]

16 minutes ago, Gugny said:

I don't see any harm in Kelly speaking to Allen.

 

That said - I don't see any real benefit, either.  I've said for years that I was tired of hearing what Thurman, Kelly and Reed thought about the team.  I never cared what they thought.  Even if they'd won a Super Bowl ... I wouldn't care what they thought.  They're yesterday's news.

 

I agree with JSP that this team needs to find its own identity.  They don't need a torch passed from a team that was good 30 years ago.

 

I also agree that this isn't something we see with other teams in the league.  My feeling is that it's a Big Fish/Little Pond situation.

 

I was tired of it 10 years ago.  I simply don't see the benefit.

I agree that Allen & Co. need to find their own identity and own it--however, you cannot wish away nor should you want to, that they stand on the shoulders of those that have gone before, each a representative of the Buffalo Bills, a once-proud franchise that needs all the help it can get to climb back up the mountain of NFL relevancy and sustained success. If that once proud history and getting back to that (plus MORE) adds extra juice/motivation for Allen, who seems to genuinely enjoy interacting with Kelly (including hanging out at his house), who are any of us to judge that? Do we really think Allen is mentally incapable of taking what would help him and separate out (with the help of Dabs) whatever won't?

 

BTW, if the past is so irrelevant and worthless, why bother rooting for a specific franchise to begin with? Wouldn't it be more fun to live only in the moment, and root for, say, New England or the Rams, or whoever is the team du jour each year? If I can't enjoy success both now and from previous years, what's the point of feverishly wishing for it to come even next year, if I have to immediately slough that off as yesterday's news...just wondering, as that seems like a lot of effort with no lasting payoff. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by NoHuddleKelly12

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Next time don't make declarative statement that you then have to retract. 

 

You're not my real dad, You can't tell me what to do.

How about this: Find me ALL the instances in the past 10 years where teams deliberately brought in old guys to have  a tea party with young guys.

 

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

From a football perspective I see your point.  But Kelly also led a team that had its share of interesting personalities, and insight into how he approached leadership could certainly be helpful to a young guy that has to now shoulder that responsibility.

 

Fair point.  And if Allen has requested to speak to Kelly about leading a football team, I think it's great that Kelly has agreed to speak with him.

 

If this was initiated by Kelly, then I would take issue with that.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

Fair point.  And if Allen has requested to speak to Kelly about leading a football team, I think it's great that Kelly has agreed to speak with him.

 

If this was initiated by Kelly, then I would take issue with that.

 

I think this is a fair response. If Allen reached out, then yes. But if someone in the franchise or in Kelly's camp initiated it, I want no part of it.

 

[Gugny]

2 minutes ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I agree that Allen & Co. need to find their own identity and own it--however, you cannot wish away nor should you want to, that they stand on the shoulders of those that have gone before, each a representative of the Buffalo Bills, a once-proud franchise that needs all the help it can get to climb back up the mountain of NFL relevancy and sustained success. If that once proud history and getting back to that (plus MORE) adds extra juice/motivation for Allen, who seems to genuinely enjoy interacting with Kelly (including hanging out at his house), who are any of us to judge that? Do we really think Allen is mentally incapable of taking what would help him and separate out (with the help of Dabs) whatever won't?

 

BTW, if the past is so irrelevant and worthless, why bother rooting for a specific franchise to begin with? Wouldn't it be more fun to live only in the moment, and root for, say, New England or the Rams, or whoever is the team du jour each year? If I can't enjoy success both now and from previous years, what's the point of feverishly wishing for it to come even next year, if I have to immediately slough that off as yesterday's news...just wondering, as that seems like a lot of effort with no lasting payoff. 

 

I never said the past should be disregarded or forgotten.

 

I'm just saying that the past doesn't need to be part of the present.  Especially if the present isn't requesting it.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

You're not my real dad, You can't tell me what to do.

How about this: Find me ALL the instances in the past 10 years where teams deliberately brought in old guys to have  a tea party with young guys.

 

How about this:  I could care less about such instances, because it doesn't matter a hill of beans what other teams do, and because I was not the one making such a big deal about it.  I think having guys that have been through it talking to younger guys coming up in generally a good idea, whether it's football or business or whatever.  Maybe they share what worked in terms of leadership and, perhaps even more importantly, share things they messed up. 

Sorry you're getting so upset.  Are you going to send your dad to beat me up after school now?

2 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

Fair point.  And if Allen has requested to speak to Kelly about leading a football team, I think it's great that Kelly has agreed to speak with him.

 

If this was initiated by Kelly, then I would take issue with that.

I see this point.  If I'm Allen I'd take whatever time Jim wanted to give me.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Are you going to send your dad to beat me up after school now?
 

 

 

That would be interesting, as he's likely older than you. It'd probably be a race to see who breaks a hip first.

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

5 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

I never said the past should be disregarded or forgotten.

 

I'm just saying that the past doesn't need to be part of the present.  Especially if the present isn't requesting it.

It appears (we just don't know) that the Bills brain trust is actively seeking this out/running with it. If they actually are utilizing film study with Kelly to create new wrinkles with Josh based on those concepts, with Dabs as the gate-keeper, then I hope they will have your undivided support. 

[DC Tom]

2 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

You must have had one!  The rest of us were waiting for “You’re an idiot!”  ?

 

Okay.

 

You're an idiot.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

14 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

Okay.

 

You're an idiot.

Should have opted for the Milky Way.  I think the nuts make you cranky(er)...

Edited June 4, 2019 by Ridgewaycynic2013
Added (er). It fits.

[Not at the table Karlos]

Didn’t read entire thread so I’m sure it’s been said already but Jim has said on many occasions that he has no interest in coaching. With his health I don’t see him changing his mind. 

[MJS]

Pretty silly to assume that other teams don't have their past great players come in to help motivate their current players. That's very common.

[Punching Bag]

9 hours ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

The failures need to go.

 

 

If you really feel the need then demonstrate it not just say.  Go.

3 hours ago, mcdamit said:

Mr Sunshine Tim Graham 

 

I have met him and he resembles that remark.

[BigPappy]

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

BAGGAGE.

 

People like you, people like DaBillzwhatever1973, people like vorpma IDOLIZE Kelly to the point where they're blind to his obvious weaknesses. And that idolization carries some really awful expectations, like somehow Jim's gonna lay hands on the kid and turn him into something THEY want Josh to be. Let the kid be himself. Let him grow into the role himself. Don't put an unnecessary albatross around his neck.

 

Jim was a great QB. It's time, though, that he faded off into the sunset. He's had his day. Let this guy have his.

 

 WOW dude! You are pretty cynical not to mention over reaching in your statement. I am guessing because you are reading way to much into what YOU think was going on in those meetings. He was INVITED to talk with Daball and JA so that he could speak to his own experiences of what worked for him and what didn't in the scheme he ran while calling his own plays. They were looking for incite from someone who played the position and called his own plays, seemingly that it appears that JA may be calling his own plays (in what i am going to guess is) in certain game situations. I SERIOUSLY doubt that our current coaching staff wants to turn JA into a replica of Jim. More likely is that they want to take some of the strength that he had as a play caller and see if he can instill in JA some of that knowledge. 

  As for your idolizing of Kelly comment, people can idolize someone for the memories they have from watching one of the greats play the game of football without overlooking their weakness's or flaws. It's called having respect for something some accomplished doing something they loved. Try showing some.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, BigPappy said:

It's called having respect for something some accomplished doing something they loved. Try showing some.

perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that Jim was a great QB.

 

This isn't about trivializing his accomplishments. It's about having the franchise not mess with the current occupant of the position.

 

[NoHuddleKelly12]

8 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

perhaps you missed the part where I mentioned that Jim was a great QB.

 

This isn't about trivializing his accomplishments. It's about having the franchise not mess with the current occupant of the position.

 

Common ground. 

 

Also, I think an analogy may be the presidency [DISCLAIMER NOTE: I am not trying to make this political by ANY means, so don't anyone else either please]. Any "current" president pick your era, would have faced unique geopolitical realities/challenges in an ever-changing world, which only they can or must deal with in the now. However, that same occupant would also most likely benefit from insights gleaned from previous occupants to that unique office, such as how to prioritize your day, multi-task, handle staff issues, the media, interacting with other world leaders on the world stage, what the White House cooks are best at, or that one thermostat that they just can't seem to fix right in the residence, etc. Am I making any sense?

[Marv's Neighbor]

Tim Graham can be SFB stupid!

[Doc]

Vic versus Tim for Bills news?  Yikes.

[One Buffalo]