Buffalo Sabres and NHL: 2019/20: Sabres season officially over. Draft lottery June 26th

[Lurker]

13 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

I wouldn't say no eye for NHL talent.  He can spot it on the blue line.  He's the bizarro Murray in that regard, all D, no F.  Honestly though, I think the team is left in a better spot moving forward with that approach than with Murray's.  The next GM is going to have an easier time moving forward with the cap space and a solid blue line foundation.

 

IDK.   Who on the defense has he brought in that's an upgrade?     Montour's just average, Miller less so.     Joker looks like a good prospect, but he makes almost as many mistakes and giveaways as nice plays.     Dahlin doesn't count--any GM with a pulse would have made that pick.

 

IMO, saying the team is in a better place moving forward is like saying a snail is faster than an earthworm.    The potential for Botts to **** this summer's restocking remains huge in my mind...

[Rockpile233]

I struggle naming one thing Botterill does well through three seasons.

 

For a cap guru, he has managed the cap poorly.

 

The ROR trade is an objective disaster (admittedly a little hindsight there). All the talk about stabilizing the second line, which has plagued the team for years, is especially frustrating when you consider it’s mostly self inflicted. I’m shocked he could never work a trade for Risto who at least had value.
 

The only reason I am still ambivalent on Botterill is that I don’t see anyone having a magic fix for the team next year. Low hanging fruit would be goaltending, which has definitely cost the team points this season. But bigger issue is still secondary scoring, which I don’t see free agency fixing.

 

Tough time to be a Sabres fan. Settling into the sort of cynicism I felt during the Bills drought years. I would guess we don’t have many more seasons to turn it around before Eichel becomes a squeaky wheel to get out of town. 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Rockpile233

[shrader]

3 hours ago, Lurker said:

 

IDK.   Who on the defense has he brought in that's an upgrade?     Montour's just average, Miller less so.     Joker looks like a good prospect, but he makes almost as many mistakes and giveaways as nice plays.     Dahlin doesn't count--any GM with a pulse would have made that pick.

 

IMO, saying the team is in a better place moving forward is like saying a snail is faster than an earthworm.    The potential for Botts to **** this summer's restocking remains huge in my mind...

 

Murray's last team was regularly dressing Cody Franson, Justin Falk, and Taylor Fedun.  Guhle was the only d-man in Rochester who at this point has any potential NHL career in his future.  There should be at least three now (to be fair, the most promising guy in Rochester, Borgen, was a Murray pick)).  So yeah, the blue line is in much better shape today than it was then.  And like I suggested, if I'm building a team, I personally think that it needs to start from back to front.

 

This isn't meant to be some screaming endorsement of Botterill because it's not.  Whoever is doing the job next year, they just happen to have a little more to work with than Botterill did on day 1.  With as bad as they've been for so long now, the gains have to start somewhere, no matter how small they are.

[Nextmanup]

4 hours ago, Rockpile233 said:

I struggle naming one thing Botterill does well through three seasons.

 

For a cap guru, he has managed the cap poorly.

 

The ROR trade is an objective disaster (admittedly a little hindsight there). All the talk about stabilizing the second line, which has plagued the team for years, is especially frustrating when you consider it’s mostly self inflicted. I’m shocked he could never work a trade for Risto who at least had value.
 

The only reason I am still ambivalent on Botterill is that I don’t see anyone having a magic fix for the team next year. Low hanging fruit would be goaltending, which has definitely cost the team points this season. But bigger issue is still secondary scoring, which I don’t see free agency fixing.

 

Tough time to be a Sabres fan. Settling into the sort of cynicism I felt during the Bills drought years. I would guess we don’t have many more seasons to turn it around before Eichel becomes a squeaky wheel to get out of town. 

The ROR deal is arguably the worst trade in franchise history, and that is NOT a product of hindsight.

 

Trading a valuable asset for 10 million inconsequential pieces is never a good idea.  

 

The Sabres current situation appears nearly identical to the Bills under Ralph Wilson, for the later years of his life when he was an absentee owner and the organization was rudderless.  

 

Any time an organization is this bad for this long you can only point to ownership as the cause.

 

 

[Lurker]

16 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

The Sabres current situation appears nearly identical to the Bills under Ralph Wilson, for the later years of his life when he was an absentee owner and the organization was rudderless.  

 

Any time an organization is this bad for this long you can only point to ownership as the cause.

 

Ownership's major responsibility is to hire the right front office leader and sign the paychecks.     

 

IMO, Pegs problem is that he doesn't know how to identify or hire good "hockey men."   He let LaFontaine pick Murray and that was a disaster.   The NHL gave him a subtle prod to "look at" Botts, and that's been meh so far.    Soon, we'll be on to door #3 and that will be an adventure as well.

 

The same thing happened on the NFL side, but with McDermott and Beane, he actually got lucky and got it right.    After Sexy Rexy, that was a relief.

 

BTW, Ralph was nowhere near an absentee owner during his later life.   He devoted most of his time to the Bills and "retired" from much of his other business operations.    Ralph also had the "gift" of not knowing how to hire good people and lucked into Polian/Marv as well... 

[plenzmd1]

Chad is pretty clued into the Sabres

 

 

[4merper4mer]

8 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

The ROR deal is arguably the worst trade in franchise history, and that is NOT a product of hindsight.

 

Trading a valuable asset for 10 million inconsequential pieces is never a good idea.  

 

The Sabres current situation appears nearly identical to the Bills under Ralph Wilson, for the later years of his life when he was an absentee owner and the organization was rudderless.  

 

Any time an organization is this bad for this long you can only point to ownership as the cause.

 

 

Bots got bad value for ROR but he was in a corner because ROR had acted in a highly unprofessional manner.  The drunken donut whined about being unable to motivate himself and he did this publiçly.  He did turn things around quickly when he left but whatever.  I guess some part of the insufficient haul is on Bots but I can't put 100% on him,

 

The other moves made by Bots are a series of failures resulting in the grand parade of lifeless packing known as the Sabres.

 

[Cripple Creek]

6 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Bots got bad value for ROR but he was in a corner because ROR had acted in a highly unprofessional manner.  The drunken donut whined about being unable to motivate himself and he did this publiçly.  He did turn things around quickly when he left but whatever.  I guess some part of the insufficient haul is on Bots but I can't put 100% on him,

 

The other moves made by Bots are a series of failures resulting in the grand parade of lifeless packing known as the Sabres.

 

The trajectory is upward.  You either understand this, or you are an idiot.

[May Day 10]

I dont think oreilly was being unprofessional at all.  It was honest and refreshing.  It was also blown out of proportion by the outside world.  Looking back, as someone in the canadian media recently said, oreilly's statement should have been celebrated, not criticized.

 

For years, he was nothing but professional.  He was always the one answering the media after every loss.  He would say the usual pre-canned stuff, and he was criticized heavily for it as a spokesman for a underachieving team.  A certain other star player was protected by the sabres and wouldnt speak to the media unless he wanted to, usually after wins or games that he scored in.

 

Oreilly was part of a group who attempted to bring leadership in (along with gionta and gorges and a few others).  They were largely rejected by the Fortnite playing faction of eichel, reinhart, and bogosian, as well as kane.  

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

I dont think oreilly was being unprofessional at all.  It was honest and refreshing.  It was also blown out of proportion by the outside world.  Looking back, as someone in the canadian media recently said, oreilly's statement should have been celebrated, not criticized.

 

For years, he was nothing but professional.  He was always the one answering the media after every loss.  He would say the usual pre-canned stuff, and he was criticized heavily for it as a spokesman for a underachieving team.  A certain other star player was protected by the sabres and wouldnt speak to the media unless he wanted to, usually after wins or games that he scored in.

 

Oreilly was part of a group who attempted to bring leadership in (along with gionta and gorges and a few others).  They were largely rejected by the Fortnite playing faction of eichel, reinhart, and bogosian, as well as kane.  

Was it professional when he got drunk and ran over a donut store?  Spare me.  Bots has been reeeeeeeeeeallllly bad but he had to get rid of the crying ROR.  It is hard to discern how much of the bad trade can be attributed to him not knowing wtf is going on and how much is due to having his hand forced.

[K-9]

25 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Was it professional when he got drunk and ran over a donut store?  Spare me.  Bots has been reeeeeeeeeeallllly bad but he had to get rid of the crying ROR.  It is hard to discern how much of the bad trade can be attributed to him not knowing wtf is going on and how much is due to having his hand forced.

By refusing to pay ROR’s $7m bonus BEFORE he was traded, TPegs totally destroyed the market for any decent return, so I’d say most of that bad trade can be attributed directly to Sabres ownership as a result.

[GG]

Interesting that RK confirmed this morning that Eichel is battling through an injury, but said that it's not serious enough to keep him off the ice. 

 

"Everyone is going through aches and pains at this point in the season, with lots of ice packs handed out after the games."

 

What are the odds that the injury is bigger than an ache or pain?

[K-9]

7 minutes ago, GG said:

Interesting that RK confirmed this morning that Eichel is battling through an injury, but said that it's not serious enough to keep him off the ice. 

 

"Everyone is going through aches and pains at this point in the season, with lots of ice packs handed out after the games."

 

What are the odds that the injury is bigger than an ache or pain?

I’d say the odds are pretty good since they had him go a couple games without taking a face off in order to protect whatever it is. 

[shrader]

23 minutes ago, GG said:

What are the odds that the injury is bigger than an ache or pain?

 

Post-season amputation

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, 4merper4mer said:

Was it professional when he got drunk and ran over a donut store?  Spare me.  

 

Spare me the sham indignation about cracking a window at a Timmy Ho's.   

 

If that was a reason to get down on a player, then the same thing would apply to Bruce, Jimbo and a host of other Bills over the years...

[plenzmd1]

20 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Spare me the sham indignation about cracking a window at a Timmy Ho's.   

 

If that was a reason to get down on a player, then the same thing would apply to Bruce, Jimbo and a host of other Bills over the years...

Don't  get me started on the probity of having a statue downtown of a guy who died driving 110MPH  while on a whisky, lude, amphetimine and lord knows what else concoction, and only by the grace of God somehow did not kill someone else. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by plenzmd1

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Lurker said:

 

Spare me the sham indignation about cracking a window at a Timmy Ho's.   

 

If that was a reason to get down on a player, then the same thing would apply to Bruce, Jimbo and a host of other Bills over the years...

 

If one organization is willing to accept it, that doesn't mean that they all are.  If it was in fact something that Pegula didn't want on his team, he's entitled to that opinion.  It's a whole different world than the early 90s.  Personally, I think this thing is overblown here, but I could see it being a sour point with a front office.  From a PR stance, I'd bet a team was much more concerned about Kane's accusations, but the build your own drive through was going to catch their eye too.

 

@plenzmd1, yeah, that Horton stuff always bugs me.  When was a statue put up?  I haven't been in that arena in probably 10 years at this point.

[plenzmd1]

10 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

If one organization is willing to accept it, that doesn't mean that they all are.  If it was in fact something that Pegula didn't want on his team, he's entitled to that opinion.  It's a whole different world than the early 90s.  Personally, I think this thing is overblown here, but I could see it being a sour point with a front office.  From a PR stance, I'd bet a team was much more concerned about Kane's accusations, but the build your own drive through was going to catch their eye too.

 

@plenzmd1, yeah, that Horton stuff always bugs me.  When was a statue put up?  I haven't been in that arena in probably 10 years at this point.

Not quite sure when, and it is not right outside the arena, but kitty corner to the Timmy's in the base of Harbor Center, close to the light rail station. My guess would be it went up when Harbor Place opened..

Edited March 5, 2020 by plenzmd1

[JohnC]

3 hours ago, K-9 said:

By refusing to pay ROR’s $7m bonus BEFORE he was traded, TPegs totally destroyed the market for any decent return, so I’d say most of that bad trade can be attributed directly to Sabres ownership as a result.

I've always felt that the owner was the driving force to get rid of ROR. I agree with you that by not giving him the bonus his value was severely diminished. From a hockey value standpoint it was a self-inflicted wound. On the other hand I can understand the owner's disgust toward a player on a lucrative long term contract and whose bonus clause was approaching and publicly stating that he doesn't want to be part of your team. It certainly wouldn't surprise me that the owner ordered the GM to get rid of him before the bonus clause kicked in. 

 

The Blues had two or three prospects in their system who were rated higher than Tage and were nearly ready to make the jump to the NHL. They were adamant that they would not include the higher rated prospects in a deal with us. Because we didn't have the leverage in a deal with them or any other team (as you noted) we settled. In this case being strategically more patient would have been the smarter thing to do. However, when the boss directs the underling to take an action he is obligated to follow orders. 

[ChevyVanMiller]

Matthew Barnaby arrested and charged with assault.

 

https://www.wgrz.com/article/news/crime/buffalo-sabres-matt-barnaby-arrested/71-17681746-140b-4cd5-9b46-50d1f4d8e984?fbclid=IwAR2l_lUdqb1go1Zd9OI28hmHhFxEaPGQGM0NFnkHSiQ0jib6CA-UNzmCrew

[K-9]

Eichel is skating just fine. But whatever it was that prevented him from taking face offs for a couple games has definitely effected his shot. He’s lost his fast ball from the looks of things; no pace on his wrister at all.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

Eichel is skating just fine. But whatever it was that prevented him from taking face offs for a couple games has definitely effected his shot. He’s lost his fast ball from the looks of things; no pace on his wrister at all.

 

Yeast Infection?

[K-9]

17 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

Yeast Infection?

I might suspect that if it were another player, but Eichel is the last one in that team to come down with that.

[plenzmd1]

 

[Greybeard]

On 3/5/2020 at 8:49 AM, K-9 said:

By refusing to pay ROR’s $7m bonus BEFORE he was traded, TPegs totally destroyed the market for any decent return, so I’d say most of that bad trade can be attributed directly to Sabres ownership as a result.

            I have a hard time believing a guy who has payed out as much as TPegs has for coaches sitting a couch would B word about paying 7M for an asset.  What is that a week at the pumps.

          Teams only have so many assets.  It really doesn't make sense for Pegs or Botts, however I can see Botts not wanting to take cap hit of $7M, as it affects his ability to manage the team payroll.

23 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

Don't  get me started on the probity of having a statue downtown of a guy who died driving 110MPH  while on a whisky, lude, amphetimine and lord knows what else concoction, and only by the grace of God somehow did not kill someone else. 

           Probity!!  That's the first time I have ever seen that used in a sentence. +++++

[May Day 10]

So apparently the Sabres are likely going to have cap penalties next season as Dahlin and Jokiharyu are going to get performance kickers this year.

 

 

At least we got Simmonds who 'has experienced games in March' and Frolik sitting there in the press box.  

 

 

Magically, everything will be great next year though because Fantasy Hockey or something.

[K-9]

20 minutes ago, Greybeard said:

            I have a hard time believing a guy who has payed out as much as TPegs has for coaches sitting a couch would B word about paying 7M for an asset.  What is that a week at the pumps.

          Teams only have so many assets.  It really doesn't make sense for Pegs or Botts, however I can see Botts not wanting to take cap hit of $7M, as it affects his ability to manage the team payroll.

Be that as it may, JBotts was in a hurry to get the deal done before ROR’s $7m bonus came due in that July. ROR’s cap hit was gonna come off the books, regardless, after he was dealt, so I don’t see that as a factor at all. For whatever reason, the Sabres didn’t want to pay out $7m for a player that was out the door and that limited the number of potential trade partners.
 

It makes more sense to me that TPegs wondered why he should give a guy $7m for nothing than it does for JBotts to deliberately limit his options. Just because TPegs is made of money and has had to spend a ton on fired coaches, which is strictly a function of a coach’s contract btw, doesn’t mean he isn’t willing to save $7m when he can. 

[shrader]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

Be that as it may, JBotts was in a hurry to get the deal done before ROR’s $7m bonus came due in that July. ROR’s cap hit was gonna come off the books, regardless, after he was dealt, so I don’t see that as a factor at all. For whatever reason, the Sabres didn’t want to pay out $7m for a player that was out the door and that limited the number of potential trade partners.
 

It makes more sense to me that TPegs wondered why he should give a guy $7m for nothing than it does for JBotts to deliberately limit his options. Just because TPegs is made of money and has had to spend a ton on fired coaches, which is strictly a function of a coach’s contract btw, doesn’t mean he isn’t willing to save $7m when he can. 

 

And I can definitely see a scenario where a guy doesn't want to be the one to pay the bonus purely out of spite.

 

And that Ristolainen video upthread?  That was hilarious.

[plenzmd1]

22 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

So apparently the Sabres are likely going to have cap penalties next season as Dahlin and Jokiharyu are going to get performance kickers this year.

 

 

At least we got Simmonds who 'has experienced games in March' and Frolik sitting there in the press box.  

 

 

Magically, everything will be great next year though because Fantasy Hockey or something.

I have not listened to the Bots interview on GR from yesterday, but did read some excerpts on Twitter...and its kinda scary on these two points

 

1) Scoring chances and expected goals are subjective...prolly why Risto is still here. Bots sounds like he does not believe in advanced numbers, or they have numbers internally that don't agree with the public numbers. Either way, scary to think this guy only goes by "eye test"

2) Wants to resign Simmonds????Are you kidding me?

 

[May Day 10]

 

The team is restricted by the cap.  All teams are.  There are certain ways to spend money to improve your team that is un-capped, such as picking up that bonus.  I dont get why they do favors for other teams such as absorb Hunwick's contract to do Pittsburgh a favor, but balk at OReilly's bonus.  Either way, its a failure.  Our 'no financial mandates owner' decided to place a critical financial mandate at a poor time.... or the GM made an historically bad move.... or a combination of both.  

Edited March 6, 2020 by May Day 10

[shrader]

36 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

I have not listened to the Bots interview on GR from yesterday, but did read some excerpts on Twitter...and its kinda scary on these two points

 

1) Scoring chances and expected goals are subjective...prolly why Risto is still here. Bots sounds like he does not believe in advanced numbers, or they have numbers internally that don't agree with the public numbers. Either way, scary to think this guy only goes by "eye test"

2) Wants to resign Simmonds????Are you kidding me?

 

 

Please listen to the interview.  I don't know whether or not it will give you some clarifications on your two points, but it's definitely better than just basing your opinion on a couple twitter excerpts.

[plenzmd1]

5 minutes ago, shrader said:

 

Please listen to the interview.  I don't know whether or not it will give you some clarifications on your two points, but it's definitely better than just basing your opinion on a couple twitter excerpts.

good point, and  why i said have not listened, certainly understand context is important on some these quotes. 

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, May Day 10 said:

So apparently the Sabres are likely going to have cap penalties next season as Dahlin and Jokiharyu are going to get performance kickers this year.

 

 

At least we got Simmonds who 'has experienced games in March' and Frolik sitting there in the press box.  

 

 

Magically, everything will be great next year though because Fantasy Hockey or something.

Would you say they're trending up?

[plenzmd1]

one of the greats has passed

 

For guys of my age, i still see him and the Flower flying up and down the ice...almost mythical with that grey hair of his. 

[Greybeard]

10 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

one of the greats has passed

 

For guys of my age, i still see him and the Flower flying up and down the ice...almost mythical with that grey hair of his. 

              He played in the shadow of his brother and he wasn't that big, but that guy took ***** from no one.  I loved those 60's Hab's teams.

[GG]

Stolen from Sabrespace.  Btw, it's now 48 games and 5 regulation wins!

 

 

[Jauronimo]

4 minutes ago, GG said:

Stolen from Sabrespace.  Btw, it's now 48 games and 5 regulation wins!

 

 

Impressive

[Rockpile233]

I went last night and, as always, thoroughly enjoyed the intermission videos highlighting the 06 run and the bumper ball hockey soccer game.

 

 

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, plenzmd1 said:

good point, and  why i said have not listened, certainly understand context is important on some these quotes. 

 

Attached is a link of Paul Hamilton on WGR. This is a 12 minute link. The last part of the segment Paul H. reports that the GM's strategy to rebuild the team still revolves around the "draft and develop" approach as the centerpiece of the upgrading of the roster.  This link is informative as to what the GM's mindset is toward rebuilding the roster. If you only want to listen to a portion of it the 9 min to the end of the segment is the most interesting.  

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/media/audio-channel/03-06-paul-hamilton-with-howard-and-jeremy

[K-9]

2 hours ago, GG said:

Stolen from Sabrespace.  Btw, it's now 48 games and 5 regulation wins!

 

 

Ouch. That says a lot more about mentally weak players than it does their talent level. Every year, post all star break when the games get tighter as teams gear up for the stretch and get into playoff mode, this team crumbles. That’s gonna be a lot harder to fix than just by adding new players.