WR situation is like going in with Peterman as starter last year

[MJS]

24 minutes ago, Awwufelloff said:

I agree completely with you and all posters disagreeing are homers. Just have to wait until the season starts to prove them wrong as usual. I mean 1 playoff year in 20 and it was a fluke yet still believe the Bills make great decisions. Allen is an inaccurate QB and as we saw last year no one could get separation, that is still a huge issue. I see another year with loads of INTs. We need to do what KC did with Hill/Hunt/Kelce/Watkins. Surround your young franchise QB with as many weapons as possible. Not a big fan of a slow RB either, have enough of those. 

Yep, Hill and Hunt are really working out for them, right?

 

John Brown and Cole Beasley BOTH get excellent separation, as does Foster. It's clear, crystal clear, you don't know what you are talking about.

[Rob's House]

A thread dedicated to complaining that we didn't reach to fill a need. How nice.

 

Good teams draft with an eye toward the future and maximizing value. Know nothing fans want it right now even if it's not available.

[Awwufelloff]

8 minutes ago, MJS said:

This is truly a moronic take. The WR's are 10 times better. You added two legit NFL receivers in John Brown and Cole Beasley. You have Foster coming back in year two after showing considerable development in year 1. They added other depth signings as well. Zay Jones goes from your #1 WR to your #3, at best. It's way better.

 

Yeah, we don't have a legit #1 elite receiver, but you can't fix everything in one off season.

 

Brown, Beasley, and Jones are all WR3 on good teams. We don't even have a WR2 like Woods, Ridley, Watkins, Kupp, etc... Not to mention WR1 like Julio, ODB, Green, Brown, etc...

 

The best teams have a variety of offensive weapons or the best QB of all time. Pats, Chiefs, Rams, Saints are the teams we should be trying to mirror ourselves after. 

Edited April 27, 2019 by Awwufelloff

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

"Over and Over again" is more hyperbole - he's a second-year player and while mistaken, it was clear they actually felt he wouldn't start going into last season.

 

You seem a bit contradictory.  First of all, the off season isn't done yet.  We aren't even done with the draft.  Second, you want them to properly address OL - well, what does signing all those FA (including Mitch Morse from KC, who is not a journeyman) and drafting an OL in the 2nd round then constitute in your mind?  Third, that's where they traded back in after a TE.   If draft picks are being used on one position, they can't be used on another, that's just logic.

 

You write as though Allen's success was entirely limited by his supporting cast.  Allen was a work in progress throughout last season.  Kyle Williams pretty much came out and said on radio after the embarassing GB loss that Allen needed to learn how to prepare in the NFL week in week out (translation: put on a party hat after the Vikes smashing and didn't take it off and grind in his prep for GB as he needed to do).  Did Allen develop and show promise at times, yes, but at other times plays were there to be made with a better- placed throw or a better read, and he missed them.  This isn't intended to trash on Allen - he was a rookie, growing pains are expected, but let's not write a "Allen needs only a world-class supporting cast which the Bills have failed to provide to be great" script.

 

Where did you hear that?

[Kirby Jackson]

Just thinking out loud but is anyone opposed to offering the 5th for Sanu? Atlanta is deep at WR and may be interested in another pick. I’m not sure that would get it done but Sanu would be another nice piece. He’s a similar caliber player to Brown and Beasley but with a little different skill set. He’s a guy that would raise the talent level at the position. 

[MJS]

3 minutes ago, Awwufelloff said:

 

Brown, Beasley, and Jones are all WR3 on good teams. We don't even have a WR2 like Woods, Ridley, Watkins, Kupp, etc... Not to mention WR1 like Julio, ODB, Green, Brown, etc...

 

The best teams have a variety of offensive weapons or the best QB of all time. Pats, Chiefs, Rams, Saints are the teams we should be trying to mirror ourselves after. 

Beasley is one of the best slot receivers in the league. Brown has been a high end #2 his entire career. You don't know of what you speak, dude.

[Troll Toll]

7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

"Over and Over again" is more hyperbole - he's a second-year player and while mistaken, it was clear they actually felt he wouldn't start going into last season.

 

You seem a bit contradictory.  First of all, the off season isn't done yet.  We aren't even done with the draft.  Second, you want them to properly address OL - well, what does signing all those FA (including Mitch Morse from KC, who is not a journeyman) and drafting an OL in the 2nd round then constitute in your mind?  Third, that's where they traded back in after a TE.   If draft picks are being used on one position, they can't be used on another, that's just logic.

 

You write as though Allen's success was entirely limited by his supporting cast.  Allen was a work in progress throughout last season.  Kyle Williams pretty much came out and said on radio after the embarassing GB loss that Allen needed to learn how to prepare in the NFL week in week out (translation: put on a party hat after the Vikes smashing and didn't take it off and grind in his prep for GB as he needed to do).  Did Allen develop and show promise at times, yes, but at other times plays were there to be made with a better- placed throw or a better read, and he missed them.  This isn't intended to trash on Allen - he was a rookie, growing pains are expected, but let's not write a "Allen needs only a world-class supporting cast which the Bills have failed to provide to be great" script.

 

 

I’m not looking for a world class supporting cast, I’m looking for a supporting cast that isn’t bottom of the league. The optics of it to me are that they got a proven center, promising tackles, some high end WR3s, old RBs, questionable at best guards and a downgrade at TE. Asking for him to have 1 receiver that can consistently get 1000 yards isn’t asking for that much. He was able to make do with the horrible O-line last year, but the WR situation was untenable. You could argue Foster was their best receiver last year and will be their best receiver going into this year. He strung together a couple good games at the end of last year, but he is far from a proven commodity.

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

Beasley is one of the best slot receivers in the league. Brown has been a high end #2 his entire career. You don't know of what you speak, dude.

High end 2s hit 1000 yards receiving. He is a low end 2 or a high end 3.

[C.Biscuit97]

6 minutes ago, MJS said:

Beasley is one of the best slot receivers in the league. Brown has been a high end #2 his entire career. You don't know of what you speak, dude.

You’re reaching with this.  Brown is not a high end 2. Come on. And I like Beasley but he only works with a number 1 and/or good TE taking coverage away.  The Cowboys’ passing attack was awful before they got Cooper.

[Troll Toll]

12 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

A thread dedicated to complaining that we didn't reach to fill a need. How nice.

 

Good teams draft with an eye toward the future and maximizing value. Know nothing fans want it right now even if it's not available.

Sorry, didn’t realize good teams pick 9th in the draft without trading to get there.

[Rob's House]

1 minute ago, Troll Toll said:

Sorry, didn’t realize good teams pick 9th in the draft without trading to get there.

If you don't know, now you know

[Chicken Boo]

I'm in total agreement.  Together, it's not a great group but could still be productive.  I hate this Carolina Panther way of leaving your QB without a legit #1 to lean on.  

 

An injury to Brown would be troublesome, to say the least.

 

I better not hear a peep about receivers "not being able to get open" this season!

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 hours ago, Troll Toll said:

It is the train wreck everyone sees coming. So many of the top receivers were there for the taking with a trade up into the 2nd. Is Cole Beasly our top receiver? We have nobody that can consistently win on the outside. We don’t have guys that align with Allen’s skillset. The Titans now have Corey Davis AND AJ Brown. Allen would kill it with those guys. Buffalo definitely could have made some trade to get Brown. Instead, I don’t know if their 3rd round picks make the team in 2 years.

 

I understand that you can’t fix a broken offense like ours was in one offseason, but I feel like they are setting up Allen to struggle... again! Allen needs someone that can track and catch his deep throws, otherwise teams will cheat towards the LoS again. It’s just frustrating knowing Allen has no shot of realizing his full potential this year.

 

 

Hmm. On paper it is still a huge improvement from what we went into the season with last year. The focus this off-season was improving the o-line. They've nailed that. The running game was absolutely non-existent last year due to a bad o-line. And I'm sure it didn't help Allen much either. Fixing the line will have a bigger effect than drafting a receiver early. We made some moves at TE, which was needed. I don't expect these pick ups at TE to light up the world but I also don't expect a drop off from last years squad. We know Beasley can catch the ball. That's worth an A grade by itself.  John Brown, likely better than whoever our 4th WR was last year.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

I'm in total agreement.  Together, it's not a great group but could still be productive.  I hate this Carolina Panther way of leaving your QB without a legit #1 to lean on.  

 

An injury to Brown would be troublesome, to say the least.

 

I better not hear a peep about receivers "not being able to get open" this season!

 

All part of the plan! Build the lines and nothing else. It's pretty obviously a dream for most people around here.

[C.Biscuit97]

3 minutes ago, Chicken Boo said:

I'm in total agreement.  Together, it's not a great group but could still be productive.  I hate this Carolina Panther way of leaving your QB without a legit #1 to lean on.  

 

An injury to Brown would be troublesome, to say the least.

 

I better not hear a peep about receivers "not being able to get open" this season!

Even Carolina tried with Benjamin, Fuchess, and Moore.

[Chicken Boo]

11 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Even Carolina tried with Benjamin, Fuchess, and Moore.

 

Ill give them a B for effort.  They have had plenty of chances to snag Cam better than what he has had.  The jury is still out on Moore.

 

Allen Robinson was there for the taking last season.

Edited April 27, 2019 by Chicken Boo

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

OP is seriously forgetting how bad the running game was last year. I love what we have done to fix this. We addressed the line in Free Agency and with our second round pick. And just in-case the problem was old as dirt running back's we also took fresh legs with our 3rd pick. McCoy and Ivory ran for 3.2 and 3.3 ypc respectively. And with Allen's big arm I doubt those low ypc were due to teams overloading the box on us. There was just nowhere to run. 

[Wayne Cubed]

I'm not sure what other peoples expectations of this draft with regards to the WR position but I always thought and said this draft did not have an elite WRs. There were no WR1s in this draft, evidenced by how the WR position in general has been drafted. It's a deep WR draft but not high on elite talent. This was always known, so I wasn't expecting the Bills to fix the WR room this draft.

 

Saying that what I thought the BIlls should have been doing is trade for a WR1, it was the only way they were going to get one on this team this year. If they could do that then they could look for a WR2 in the draft. What looks like what happened is they've gotten their WR2 in free agency after they were unsuccessful in getting Brown, a true WR1. Maybe they could have gone after Beckham but I think his price was too high for McBeane.

 

Next years draft looks full of very good skill positions so maybe they'll have to kick the can down the road for their WR1? That could prove problematic if they plan on being good next year and pick in the 20s.

 

 At this point I'm not sure what their actual plan is unless they are able to trade for one.

[Pete]

One other point to reiterate- next years draft there aren't many good offensive lineman.  But it is very deep at the skill positions.  Taking that into consideration, we are better off drafting oline this year and WR next year

[Troll Toll]

I feel like I’m in a Twilight Zone episode. Daboll has basically always had an offense at the bottom of the league. Maybe I’m misunderstanding expectations of other fans? I don’t think Buffalo finishes with a top 20 offense this year. Are people cool with that because the defense will carry the load? Do people actually think Buffalo will go from one of the worst offenses to a top 20 offense with the moves they made? 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Awwufelloff said:

 I see another year with loads of INTs. 

Allen's final six games he had an 8:7 TD to INT ratio. One of those picks was on an end of half hail mary. So 8:6 really. I could live with a sophomore season from Allen that was 21 TDs to 16 INTs. And probably another 6-8 TD's on the ground.

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

OP is seriously forgetting how bad the running game was last year. I love what we have done to fix this. We addressed the line in Free Agency and with our second round pick. And just in-case the problem was old as dirt running back's we also took fresh legs with our 3rd pick. McCoy and Ivory ran for 3.2 and 3.3 ypc respectively. And with Allen's big arm I doubt those low ypc were due to teams overloading the box on us. There was just nowhere to run. 

With an improved o line, your running game is going to be better.  Very few rbs make your running game better.  McCoy was a good rb behind a good o line.  It’s why rb is such an after thought position now.  Your o line makes your running game.

5 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I feel like I’m in a Twilight Zone episode. Daboll has basically always had an offense at the bottom of the league. Maybe I’m misunderstanding expectations of other fans? I don’t think Buffalo finishes with a top 20 offense this year. Are people cool with that because the defense will carry the load? Do people actually think Buffalo will go from one of the worst offenses to a top 20 offense with the moves they made? 

I think your name kills your points but I agree.  There is so much blind trust in Daboll who literally has one of the worst offense resumes in the nfl.  He was worse than Dennison.  In fact, the only reason he wasn’t fired is because McBeane would look terrible if they fired 2 OCs in 2 years.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

With an improved o line, your running game is going to be better.  Very few rbs make your running game better.  McCoy was a good rb behind a good o line.  It’s why rb is such an after thought position now.  Your o line makes your running game.

I agree. But McCoy was 30 last year.  As was Ivory. So i just don't want to completely rule out that maybe he could have aged on us.

[mrags]

29 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

 

High end 2s hit 1000 yards receiving. He is a low end 2 or a high end 3.

That’s still better than the low end 3s you claim we had last year. Which are now our actual 3s and 4s. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

38 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Where did you hear that?

 

Good and fair question.  It was on a radio interview -Kyle Williams on a post - game, Schop and the Bulldog, on WGR. 

And don't get me wrong, Kyle was very tactful, didn't say anything that could be directly interpreted as throwing Allen under the bus but I thought his meaning was clear.  He said " "In the long run, we don't talk about this loss ruining anything.  It's a clear sign of a lack of execution and preparation. We don't have the luxury of riding the roller coaster of whether we're good or not."   Then he was asked what kind of help he thought he or other veterans could provide to the rookie QB to avoid that roller coaster because he made good throws and plays the previous week and must have felt good about yourself but yesterday (against GB) was erratic (words to that effect) and Kyle said "I think there's a difference between feeling good about yourself and being realistic about how you need to prepare and I'm not just speaking about Josh, I'm talking about everybody, never get too high, never get too low, and I think it's something you learn with repetition, with experience and having gone through the course of what an NFL season was like...sometimes the thing you have to weather is success, you know, 'how are we going to handle this?' ....make sure he's hearing the right things, understanding the right things..."

 

Again, it was very tactful, didn't finger point Josh, but the implication was fairly clear in context that perhaps the success against the Vikes had gone a bit to the heads of some of the younger players (lthe guy he was asked about) and interfered with preparation for the GB game....and that it was a common rookie mistake experience would cure.

 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/news/williams-were-all-putting-lot-line-win

 

It's about 11 minutes in

[Bookie Man]

?

[oldmanfan]

9 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I feel like I’m in a Twilight Zone episode. Daboll has basically always had an offense at the bottom of the league. Maybe I’m misunderstanding expectations of other fans? I don’t think Buffalo finishes with a top 20 offense this year. Are people cool with that because the defense will carry the load? Do people actually think Buffalo will go from one of the worst offenses to a top 20 offense with the moves they made? 

Yes.  

[Doc]

29 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I’m not looking for a world class supporting cast, I’m looking for a supporting cast that isn’t bottom of the league. The optics of it to me are that they got a proven center, promising tackles, some high end WR3s, old RBs, questionable at best guards and a downgrade at TE. Asking for him to have 1 receiver that can consistently get 1000 yards isn’t asking for that much. He was able to make do with the horrible O-line last year, but the WR situation was untenable. You could argue Foster was their best receiver last year and will be their best receiver going into this year. He strung together a couple good games at the end of last year, but he is far from a proven commodity.

High end 2s hit 1000 yards receiving. He is a low end 2 or a high end 3.

 

26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

You’re reaching with this.  Brown is not a high end 2. Come on. And I like Beasley but he only works with a number 1 and/or good TE taking coverage away.  The Cowboys’ passing attack was awful before they got Cooper.

 

The receiving corps isn't even close to bottom of the league.  That's just ridiculous.

 

And Brown was on-pace for almost 1,100 yards last year before they switched to Jackson.  The same for Foster, if he'd played all 16 games producing at the level he did for the last 7.

[Kelly the Dog]

You're letting a guy who calls himself Troll, troll you? 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

8 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I feel like I’m in a Twilight Zone episode. Daboll has basically always had an offense at the bottom of the league. Maybe I’m misunderstanding expectations of other fans? I don’t think Buffalo finishes with a top 20 offense this year. Are people cool with that because the defense will carry the load? Do people actually think Buffalo will go from one of the worst offenses to a top 20 offense with the moves they made? 

 

We were 30th in both points and yards last year. If we don't improve to the mid to low 20's at a minimum then i will be disappointed. I'm not predicting a top 16 offense but it could happen. When you have a second year QB it is all about that QB's personal development and improvement. We could easily be a 26th ranked offense next year but if Allen personally breaks out into the player we think he can be then it has been a positive season.

[Chandler#81]

1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said:

You're letting a guy who calls himself Troll, troll you? 

and with this, both he and his thread are done.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

49 minutes ago, Troll Toll said:

I’m not looking for a world class supporting cast, I’m looking for a supporting cast that isn’t bottom of the league. The optics of it to me are that they got a proven center, promising tackles, some high end WR3s, old RBs, questionable at best guards and a downgrade at TE. Asking for him to have 1 receiver that can consistently get 1000 yards isn’t asking for that much. He was able to make do with the horrible O-line last year, but the WR situation was untenable. You could argue Foster was their best receiver last year and will be their best receiver going into this year. He strung together a couple good games at the end of last year, but he is far from a proven commodity.

High end 2s hit 1000 yards receiving. He is a low end 2 or a high end 3.

 

Wise fans realize that one pronounces on the quality of a roster during the draft on paper, but that actual football games are played on Sunday on turf.

 

You correctly identify the scope of the upgrades the Bills had to make on offense.  They have obviously taken steps to not be at the bottom of the league.  You've made your view known that the Bills are still at the bottom of the league regardless. 

 

Time will tell.

 

PS just to inject a bit of fact as to the contention "high end #2s hit 1000 yds receiving":

Four teams had 2 players with over 1000 yds receiving last season; only 3 teams had 2 WR with over 1000 yds receiving last season.  For those counting at home, that means 28 teams did NOT have 2 players with over 1000 yds, including last year's Super Bowl Champion (which had 0 players >1000 yds receiving)

So yes, you are asking for a world- class supporting cast if you insist your #2 WR has >1000 yds, and you're also asking for a successful QB (Cousins, Rivers, Roethlisberger, and the up and coming Mahomes).