Daniel Jeremiah mock #3 (Hockenson to Bills)

[WideNine]

31 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Kahale Warring (6'5", 252) or Jace Sternberger (6'4" 251) could be options between the 3rd and the 5th.

They've had a private visit with Sternberger.

 

Both those guys had decent measurables at the combine, but Warring's blocking is sometimes referred to as atrocious and he had plenty of dropped passes. Sternberger also is someone who is a very poor blocker, but would work out well catching passes out of the TE flex option role. As far as YAC there were some comments that he goes down rather easily...still productive though.

 

I am admittedly biased towards Oliver.

 

The book on Oliver is a player who has a higher ceiling - getting better each year. He has great hands, good body control, good positioning on blocks but lacks some strength. The bio below is in line with most of what I have seen from other sources.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/josh-oliver

 

Seems to be on the radar for a lot of teams. He is considered a later round target for the Patriots, Steelers, Cowboys, Browns, Denver... mocked to a lot of teams.

 

Some of his highlight stuff on the Patriots prospect site. Video of San Jose St games are not going to be confused with videos done for Alabama

 

https://www.patriots.com/video/2019-draft-prospects-josh-oliver-te-san-jose

[transplantbillsfan]

7 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Very few...and that's the point: why would you spend s top-10 pick on a position that doesn't produce much offensively?

 

I don't know... why don't you ask all the teams that have taken a Tackle #1 overall historically.

[WideNine]

3 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I actually love Irv Smith in this offense because he can be used at big WR, TE, red zone, hback, and an excellent blocker. We have three taller TEs behind him, he’s more of an offensive weapon 

 

So no hope that Croom has a break out year in that role?

 

Irv Smith is a gamer, wont try to take that away from him.

[thebandit27]

9 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I don't know... why don't you ask all the teams that have taken a Tackle #1 overall historically.

 

Because I'm not confused about what I mean when I say "contribute offensively", which I described quite clearly multiple times in this thread.

 

When you draft an OT that high, you're doing so because you believe that he's an elite pass protector and great run blocker, which means he's having a big impact on the game on every offensive snap.

 

If you intend to draft a TE in the top-10, then he better be a guy that is a great blocker and an elite pass catcher.  Because if he's not an elite pass catcher, then he's only going to be marginally more useful than playing an extra offensive lineman on every down...and that's not worth a top-10 pick.

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

29 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Because I'm not confused about what I mean when I say "contribute offensively", which I described quite clearly multiple times in this thread.

 

When you draft an OT that high, you're doing so because you believe that he's an elite pass protector and great run blocker, which means he's having a big impact on the game on every offensive snap.

 

If you intend to draft a TE in the top-10, then he better be a guy that is a great blocker and an elite pass catcher.  Because if he's not an elite pass catcher, then he's only going to be marginally more useful than playing an extra offensive lineman on every down...and that's not worth a top-10 pick.

You said what I've tried to convey over the years. Only you were much better and more concise then this old man is anymore . Different positions have different values and thus different considerations when drafting, especially in round 1

18 hours ago, JM57 said:

My stupid phone has lost my reply twice now. 

Did you just get that free phone for switching to "SPRINT" ?

Edited April 17, 2019 by MOVALLEYRANDY
Left off question mark

[Victory Formation]

DJ is one of the better ones so his mocks carry more weight. Look back at his 1st round mock last year, he did a good job predicting some of those picks. I hope he is right, I like Hock.

[FeelingOnYouboty]

IDK man Hockenson is considered a consensus Top 10 prospect in this Draft. He’s instantly the most talented TE in Bills history. A future multiple time Pro Bowler and helps us in both the passing and running game. 

 

I’m not going to throw a tantrum if we take him even though the positional value isn’t great.

[Logic]

2 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

IDK man Hockenson is considered a consensus Top 10 prospect in this Draft. He’s instantly the most talented TE in Bills history. A future multiple time Pro Bowler and helps us in both the passing and running game. 

 

I’m not going to throw a tantrum if we take him even though the positional value isn’t great.

Shhhhh. You're gonna upset Cornette'sCommentary!

[MrEpsYtown]

12 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

IDK man Hockenson is considered a consensus Top 10 prospect in this Draft. He’s instantly the most talented TE in Bills history. A future multiple time Pro Bowler and helps us in both the passing and running game. 

 

I’m not going to throw a tantrum if we take him even though the positional value isn’t great.

 

I tend to agree. If Oliver is gone, I really hope we go in this direction. I will throw a tantrum if we take a RT or Andre Dillard. I'd much rather  take a shot on a guy like this. 

[YoloinOhio]

Well we got Smoky (Brown) and Sauce (Beasley) so guess we need a pork Hock out there 

[BillsFan1988]

On 4/16/2019 at 6:49 PM, RoyBatty is alive said:

Possible, see what OTs are still there and if any great player happens to slip.  I would prefer BPA and I dont think Hockendon would be close to BPA at 9, some players always slides.

I guess u don't value TEs that can block like a tackle in the run game and stretch the seems in the passing gm as well as lineup all over the field and create mismatches. I much rather have Hock then any of these offensive lineman in this draft. I believe the lineman are highly overrated in this draft. 

 

J Williams - doesn't even have a locked in position yet flexibility is great if your a bkup but for top 10 pk I want a guy that's solidified at his position and is really good not a maybe .

 

J Taylor- another guy people say can kick inside .  . That's a red flag.  We don't need a team full of Jacks of all trades masters of none. 

 

A Dilliard- Dilliard is a LT but never faced great comp in pac 12 and never needed to run block . 

[MrEpsYtown]

43 minutes ago, BillsFan1988 said:

I guess u don't value TEs that can block like a tackle in the run game and stretch the seems in the passing gm as well as lineup all over the field and create mismatches. I much rather have Hock then any of these offensive lineman in this draft. I believe the lineman are highly overrated in this draft. 

 

J Williams - doesn't even have a locked in position yet flexibility is great if your a bkup but for top 10 pk I want a guy that's solidified at his position and is really good not a maybe .

 

J Taylor- another guy people say can kick inside .  . That's a red flag.  We don't need a team full of Jacks of all trades masters of none. 

 

A Dilliard- Dilliard is a LT but never faced great comp in pac 12 and never needed to run block . 

 

Hockenson is a better run blocker than Dillard is imo. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Hockenson is a better run blocker than Dillard is imo. 

 

Haha. That may well be true. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Added bonus: Defenses won’t know if we’re running or passing when he’s in the game because he’s elite at both receiving and blocking.

[Nihilarian]

9 hours ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

IDK man Hockenson is considered a consensus Top 10 prospect in this Draft. He’s instantly the most talented TE in Bills history. A future multiple time Pro Bowler and helps us in both the passing and running game. 

 

I’m not going to throw a tantrum if we take him even though the positional value isn’t great.

I tend to disagree with the bolded.

 

When you have a really good receiving TE, he helps out the younger QBs immensely in that when the OC puts the TE in certain formations the defense has to reveal itself. To man or zone coverage and if the safety is here or there it will tell the QB which kind of man or which kind of zone so now the QB knows the defensive coverage before the ball is snapped. 

 

A good TE that can win outside as a receiver has become a very valuable chess piece in the better offenses as you can move him around the formation to get the look you want. Then if the Bills go two tight ends that can give a run look to the offense because this makes the defense gear up to stop the run. That receiving TE slips a block and he is open.

 

If I'm not mistaken Bills OC Brian Daboll was the Patriots TE coach for a number of years and he should be pounding the table for TJ Hockenson as this kid doesn't need much development and should make an instant impact and be an instant starter. TJ might be getting a lot of hype from the media...because he deserves it

 

The positional value hasn't been great in Buffalo over the years because they haven't had top NFL offensive coordinators who would even know how build a top passing scheme or to utilize a top tight end. The list of bums and nobody's in that offensive coordinator position in Buffalo has been astoundingly bad going back to after 2003 with Kevin Gilbride. Greg Roman, Anthony Lynn aside but those gentlemen were more suited to building a power run game. 

[maryland-bills-fan]

TE can be run by committee.   On most plays they are incidental to the point of attack. 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

..NFLN gang had Irv Smith to Pats at #32 last night..............

[thebandit27]

I think there's a real chance that the Bills take Rashan Gary

[SWATeam]

17 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I think there's a real chance that the Bills take Rashan Gary

To play 3T?

[YoloinOhio]

7 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

To play 3T?

Not answering for Bandit but my two cents - yes, 3 tech but he can be moved around 

[SWATeam]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not answering for Bandit but my two cents - yes, 3 tech but he can be moved around 

That's how I would see it.  Not impressed with his tape at end.

 

I would trust them if they made the pick, but it's a complete projection.  

[thebandit27]

12 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

To play 3T?

 

4 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not answering for Bandit but my two cents - yes, 3 tech but he can be moved around 

 

I think he would play in a lot of different places.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

I think there's a real chance that the Bills take Rashan Gary

 

I do too if he is on the board.

[Bangarang]

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

I think there's a real chance that the Bills take Rashan Gary

 

Thats scary and not in a good way 

[BigBuff423]

On 4/16/2019 at 12:26 PM, thebandit27 said:

He better catch 70+ passes for 1,000+ yards if they pick him in the top 10

 

I agree. I am NOT a fan of taking a TE until 3rd or 4th Round based on how long they develop and how history has demonstrated their contributions. If you're anyone in the 1st round, they need to be a first year significant contributor in some measurable capacity. Only one TE in the last 20 years has shown to be worth the 1st round status: Tony Gonzalez. Gronk was a 2nd rounder and he's shown he's worth it, but that's where it stops for me. I'd rather take a OT / DL in top 10 this year or trade back for a LB and pick up an extra 2nd or 3rd round pick. 

 

I also one who thinks while the Bills did really well in FA with Offense, they have real holes on Defense and need good depth, which is where the strengths lie in this Draft, again IMO. To that end, I'd like the majority of the 1st through 4th round picks to be on Defense with a WR / RB thrown in the mix. 

[JaCrispy]

6 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Thats scary and not in a good way 

Scary Gary...?

Edited April 18, 2019 by JaCrispy

[Rocket94]

Yes you guys. I truly believe that Edmunds would flourish on the outside. White would be in the middle and sideline to sideline. If White is there, I would not pass him up. In late round one or round two, several DT's should be available. Then we have the potential Frank Clark acquisition. I will believe that when I see it. How well does Daniel Jeremiah know the Bills? We need impact defensive players. We are not scaring or stopping anyone. The verdict is out...

Murphy, Lorax and Lawson are not good enough...

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Yes you guys. I truly believe that Edmunds would flourish on the outside. White would be in the middle and sideline to sideline. If White is there, I would not pass him up. In late round one or round two, several DT's should be available. Then we have the potential Frank Clark acquisition. I will believe that when I see it. How well does Daniel Jeremiah know the Bills? We need impact defensive players. We are not scaring or stopping anyone. The verdict is out...

Murphy, Lorax and Lawson are not good enough...

 

Someone found the font size button.

[Rocket94]

The fonts were an accident! I am not looking for attention. However, the Bills defensive front needs attention...otherwise, get ready for some long Sunday afternoons.

Edited April 18, 2019 by Rocket94

[FeelingOnYouboty]

3 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I tend to disagree with the bolded.

 

When you have a really good receiving TE, he helps out the younger QBs immensely in that when the OC puts the TE in certain formations the defense has to reveal itself. To man or zone coverage and if the safety is here or there it will tell the QB which kind of man or which kind of zone so now the QB knows the defensive coverage before the ball is snapped. 

 

A good TE that can win outside as a receiver has become a very valuable chess piece in the better offenses as you can move him around the formation to get the look you want. Then if the Bills go two tight ends that can give a run look to the offense because this makes the defense gear up to stop the run. That receiving TE slips a block and he is open.

 

If I'm not mistaken Bills OC Brian Daboll was the Patriots TE coach for a number of years and he should be pounding the table for TJ Hockenson as this kid doesn't need much development and should make an instant impact and be an instant starter. TJ might be getting a lot of hype from the media...because he deserves it

 

The positional value hasn't been great in Buffalo over the years because they haven't had top NFL offensive coordinators who would even know how build a top passing scheme or to utilize a top tight end. The list of bums and nobody's in that offensive coordinator position in Buffalo has been astoundingly bad going back to after 2003 with Kevin Gilbride. Greg Roman, Anthony Lynn aside but those gentlemen were more suited to building a power run game. 

 

I just mean on the totem pole positional value goes like this

 

QB

MLB

DE

CB

LT

C

DT

WR

TE/S

G/RB

 

1 hour ago, thebandit27 said:

I think there's a real chance that the Bills take Rashan Gary

 

 I think so too if he's there. A high ceiling, still raw player who breaks every measurable

Edited April 18, 2019 by FeelingOnYouboty

[Rocket94]

We do not need a tight end right now with our first pick. Let us rebuild our defense first to stop people, and let Josh develop some more this year. Next year we will be better suited to engage in shoot outs. All of this talk about Hock and Metcalf...I think it is a wonderful dream like scenario...just not realistic. Who is going to stop teams from marching down the field? This current DL is horrid. 

[JM57]

4 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

We do not need a tight end right now with our first pick. Let us rebuild our defense first to stop people, and let Josh develop some more this year. Next year we will be better suited to engage in shoot outs. All of this talk about Hock and Metcalf...I think it is a wonderful dream like scenario...just not realistic. Who is going to stop teams from marching down the field? This current DL is horrid. 

The amount of Bills fans obsessed with defense in 2019 is too damn high. They haven't had a good offense since the one year with Bledsoe and have cycled through good to great defenses multiple times since then, with what to show for it?

 

Fix the offense. This is an offensive happy league with rules benefitting them. Then you don't have to worry about always holding the opponent to 13 points.

Edited April 18, 2019 by JM57

[Bangarang]

13 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

I think so too if he's there. A high ceiling, still raw player who breaks every measurable

 

3 years in a major football program, a lack of production, and still very raw? That’s a big red flag for me. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Rashan Gary or T.J. Hockenson

 

I'm guessing 90% of the board would be fine with Hockenson at #9 then

[Rocket94]

I would take a strong defense first. This current unit is not working...obvious and empirically proven. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Just now, Bangarang said:

 

3 years in a major football program, a lack of production, and still very raw? That’s a big red flag for me. 

 

I think our coaching staff would look at him be and like, 'WE CAN WORK WITH THIS!" 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Rocket94 said:

I would take a strong defense first. This current unit is not working...obvious and empirically proven. 

 

By their ranking of 2nd in total defense in 2018. Empirical.

[Rocket94]

Misleading statistic and you know it. So, you are content with Murphy, Lawson and Lorax? A rotation of marginal DT's? 

[thebandit27]

22 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

 

I just mean on the totem pole positional value goes like this

 

QB

MLB

DE

CB

LT

C

DT

WR

TE/S

G/RB

 

 

Wow...MLB that high?  I don't share that opinion.  I actually think that falls rather low on the list.  I mean, in recent years, the Bills have gotten solid MLB play from mid-round picks like Preston Brown, street FAs like Zach Brown, and former UDFAs like Julian Stanford (who, IMO, looked every bit as good as Edmunds in spot duty last year).

 

I'd say it looks more like this:

QB

Pass rusher

CB

WR

LT

C

Everything else that's not STs

STs

[dlonce]

On 4/16/2019 at 6:51 PM, JM57 said:

 

Why does it have to be one or the other? There are very few guys that are above average or better at all aspects of playing TE. Gronk was a REALLY good blocker. Did that stop him from catching passes? Kittle and Kelce both graded out very favorably in the blocking department in 2018. They both had over 1300 yards receiving. If you think that's the ceiling for Hockenson, then you have a rare talent and you take him. Even in the top 10. I don't know how anyone could have watched Gronk dump all over this team every time they played and NOT realize the value of an elite TE

 

Gronk and Brady fit like a hand and glove. Brady used his TEs,made Aaron Hernandez look like a gold jacket candidate.

Hindsight...

 

If you draft a TE this high up you better pray he’s an All Pro in your system.

This reeks of Eric Ebron and how the former board jumped all over him as our pick. Deja Vu.

 

Im positive he’s not going 9 to the Bills,neither is Metcalf. Thank god,it would be a wasted pick.

Pegulas future Son In Law will be croomed to be the starter.

 

Too many high end DTs there and we need to replace Williams with potential quality.

Edited April 18, 2019 by dlonce