OldTimer1960 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 9 hours ago, SouthNYfan said: He's 6'2" and 287 at the combine Aaron Donald : 6'1" and 275 I'm not saying he's Donald, but he seems to do just fine at that size. I'm just saying his size isn't really an issue. The rest of the questions I agree with. I'm not sold on him but I wouldn't be upset if we got him. If we are picking defense and not oline/wr/te (another discussion) then I'm okay with Oliver if he's there at #9 But he was down to 281 at his pro day. I imagine that he dropped weight to run as fast a 40 as he could, but I have to wonder would he be able to maintain 287 in the league or would he end up playing close to 280? I know now that there have been a few players that succeeded at DT at light weights - guys like Donald and John Randle come to mind, but they are still the exception rather than the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringMetheHeadofLeonLett Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 No, a scheme doesn't hold a dominant player back. It gives excuses. And probably an excuse to write an overthunked article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjt328 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 11 hours ago, mrags said: If im takin a guy in the top 10, I don’t want a small school guy ever. I want a guy that did it at big schools in college and dominated. A guy that always found a way to produce. One of the reasons I didn’t want Mack either as early as he went. To scary for my taste. Glad I was wrong about Mack. Time will tell about Oliver. Small school guys often get knocked for playing against "weaker" competition. But you can't forget they also play alongside weaker teammates, and opponents can focus 100% on stopping just them. Meanwhile, guys from bigger schools usually have the benefit of playing alongside several other good players, and in many cases look better because of the system. Scouting is a tricky thing. You are literally trying to predict the future. Everything you know about a guy is based on maybe 20-25 games played, how his physical attributes show at the combine, and what you can find out in interviews. There is a reason that only 4-5 guys (at most) are considered "sure-things" every year in the draft, and some of those guys still don't work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 4 hours ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said: No, a scheme doesn't hold a dominant player back. It gives excuses. And probably an excuse to write an overthunked article. On the defensive front in college it happens more than you think. They are concerned about winning not really concerned with a players production. In passing situations Oliver rushed from the nose more than any top tier Dt in the draft. More so than even Dexter Lawerance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeSomeProcess Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 5 hours ago, OldTimer1960 said: But he was down to 281 at his pro day. I imagine that he dropped weight to run as fast a 40 as he could, but I have to wonder would he be able to maintain 287 in the league or would he end up playing close to 280? I know now that there have been a few players that succeeded at DT at light weights - guys like Donald and John Randle come to mind, but they are still the exception rather than the rule. It’s all about what you ask him to do. Let him sit on obvious run situations, let him be the nickle DT and get after the qb. The game has changed drastically and the role of a pass rushing DT is more valuable than a do it all guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stank_Nasty Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, GimmeSomeProcess said: It’s all about what you ask him to do. Let him sit on obvious run situations, let him be the nickle DT and get after the qb. The game has changed drastically and the role of a pass rushing DT is more valuable than a do it all guy. he was a dominant run defender though.... if he shows he can still penetrate in the run game at that size he cant sit. no way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay_Fixit Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Oliver has been my guy all year. If the Bills pick him, I’ll probably have a cigar and a bath. With EXTRA salts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 He has very short arms ... less than 32” ... so it can put him at a disadvantage against longer armed Olinemen. I think there’s a good chance he goes at 15 ... maybe later. I also think it’s unfair and mean that some people call his tiny, short arms ‘flippers’. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slippery Rubber Mats Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 I'd love him at 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 3 hours ago, mjt328 said: Small school guys often get knocked for playing against "weaker" competition. But you can't forget they also play alongside weaker teammates, and opponents can focus 100% on stopping just them. Meanwhile, guys from bigger schools usually have the benefit of playing alongside several other good players, and in many cases look better because of the system. Scouting is a tricky thing. You are literally trying to predict the future. Everything you know about a guy is based on maybe 20-25 games played, how his physical attributes show at the combine, and what you can find out in interviews. There is a reason that only 4-5 guys (at most) are considered "sure-things" every year in the draft, and some of those guys still don't work out. I understand all that. My opinion, is that it takes a generational freak for me to want a small school guy early in the draft. Josh Allen was that. But let’s be honest, we don’t know yet and it’ll take a little time. And there were so many people not sold on Josh Allen because of some of those reasons. Im just saying, if it’s me, I’m not drafting a small school guy in the top 10 unless they are a sure fire pick at that spot. Sorry, I just don’t see that in Oliver. I see a guy that played very well against weaker competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeelingOnYouboty Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 2 hours ago, Jay_Fixit said: Oliver has been my guy all year. If the Bills pick him, I’ll probably have a cigar and a bath. With EXTRA salts. It's a home run of a pick if he's there at #9 and we take him 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 You wanna see Hughes sack count go up? Get him a up the middle pressure guy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 I dont think the scheme held him back because the scheme basically showed he can play any position in the front four. It also showed he can drop as an OLB if you really need him to. I also dont buy he somehow underachieved in college. There is this weird perception his numbers werent as good as they could have been. He has some of the best per game run stuffing numbers of any Defensive Tackle to come out in the last 5-7 years, that includes Donald. The issue I think Oliver runs into is everyone see's his frame and thinks Aaron Donald and wonders why he didnt have the pass rushing numbers Donald did at Pitt, which is an insane expectation to put on any player. Oliver may not be Donald, but who is? Whoever gets Oliver will get a very good 3 technique who can be used as an edge rusher on passing downs. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: I dont think the scheme held him back because the scheme basically showed he can play any position in the front four. It also showed he can drop as an OLB if you really need him to. I also dont buy he somehow underachieved in college. There is this weird perception his numbers werent as good as they could have been. He has some of the best per game run stuffing numbers of any Defensive Tackle to come out in the last 5-7 years, that includes Donald. The issue I think Oliver runs into is everyone see's his frame and thinks Aaron Donald and wonders why he didnt have the pass rushing numbers Donald did at Pitt, which is an insane expectation to put on any player. Oliver may not be Donald, but who is? Whoever gets Oliver will get a very good 3 technique who can be used as an edge rusher on passing downs. I think the point of the article was that the scheme held back his metrics by basically playing him out of position. He's not a big bodied, block eating NT he's a lean, athletic DT in the same mold as Aaron Donald, so the scheme didn't play to his strengths. Basically it would be like if the bills had Allen throw nothing but quick slants and screens, totally ignoring his big arm and instead using him on short plays where his arm strength is wasted and he's less accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 hours ago, John from Riverside said: You wanna see Hughes sack count go up? Get him a up the middle pressure guy. Was that true when Dareus was here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthNYfan Posted April 9, 2019 Author Share Posted April 9, 2019 1 minute ago, PlayoffsPlease said: Was that true when Dareus was here? Yes. He had double digit sacks both seasons with dareus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherlock Holmes Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 Bosa>>>>>>Oliver...what if he becomes a JJ Watt specimen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 The moral of the story is, don't take a 280 lb guy, make him play nose tackle and expect him to get to the passer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: Was that true when Dareus was here? So the answer is yes.....and hopefully even better with one of these drafted DT's 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted April 9, 2019 Share Posted April 9, 2019 (edited) 20 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said: Yes. He had double digit sacks both seasons with dareus. I am not disputing, but were the sack totals more? I think he has had double digits without him. Edited April 9, 2019 by PlayoffsPlease Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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