Ed Oliver : did the scheme hold him back? (PFF article)

[SouthNYfan]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-how-ed-olivers-pass-rushing-was-held-back-by-houstons-scheme

 

Interesting article I came across.

This was from 03/18 so apologies if it's been linked/discussed before.

I tried searching but there are a billion Oliver and PFF threads/posts that I may have missed it.

[maryland-bills-fan]

I don't do this for a living.  I wonder if a DT from a college team that had a great offense, would look real attractive.  If his team is up 24-0 in the first quarter, might it be "pin your ears back and go for the QB time".   Stat's look good.  Is there a lot of film from him on games where that didn't happen?

 

[SouthNYfan]

4 minutes ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

I don't do this for a living.  I wonder if a DT from a college team that had a great offense, would look real attractive.  If his team is up 24-0 in the first quarter, might it be "pin your ears back and go for the QB time".   Stat's look good.  Is there a lot of film from him on games where that didn't happen?

 

 

I'm not too sure in that regard

I know he's an athletic freak

His pass rush gets questioning though

This article kind of addresses that and says he might be better off with a 4-3 style pass rush (like ours)

Just food for thought

[hjnick]

Maybe the 4-3 would turn him into the rushing superstar he could be.

 

What sucks about Houston's 2018 schedule, Texas Tech was the best team they played... When I watched some of the tape from that game (not a professional here...), he had a decent push in the first quarter and into the second.  After that, he looked gassed out and was not as productive for the rest of the game.

 

I know a lot of people really, really want Oliver (and he looks like a freak), but I really worry about him because I'd like more gametape against P5 lines and how he would have produced against them (more real tape against better competition).

 

Let's face it, Texas Tech's offensive line is not like Alabama's or Wisconsin's Oline and IMO Tech's Oline did a good job neutralizing him.

 

So how would he do against NFL lines?   

[John from Riverside]

I REALLY hate making excuses for a potential top 10 pick

 

but in the case of this guy you can see on film that he is a beast......Oliver is gonna be a stud

[BuffAlone]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I REALLY hate making excuses for a potential top 10 pick

 

but in the case of this guy you can see on film that he is a beast......Oliver is gonna be a stud

I agree. And his best fit within the top ten picks would be Buffalo IMO. That probably means he goes in the top 5 and never lives up to his pick unfortunately

[SouthNYfan]

2 hours ago, hjnick said:

Maybe the 4-3 would turn him into the rushing superstar he could be.

 

What sucks about Houston's 2018 schedule, Texas Tech was the best team they played... When I watched some of the tape from that game (not a professional here...), he had a decent push in the first quarter and into the second.  After that, he looked gassed out and was not as productive for the rest of the game.

 

I know a lot of people really, really want Oliver (and he looks like a freak), but I really worry about him because I'd like more gametape against P5 lines and how he would have produced against them (more real tape against better competition).

 

Let's face it, Texas Tech's offensive line is not like Alabama's or Wisconsin's Oline and IMO Tech's Oline did a good job neutralizing him.

 

So how would he do against NFL lines?   

 

Agree 100%

Level of competition is definitely a factor

I do think that the "athletic freaks" who get by solely on that fizzle at the NFL level because the level of athleticism they face is much higher overall in the NFL

 

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

I REALLY hate making excuses for a potential top 10 pick

 

but in the case of this guy you can see on film that he is a beast......Oliver is gonna be a stud

 

I think he's going to be really good

I don't think the article was excuses, I think it was just giving a possible explanation for why his pass rush numbers on paper don't jive with his talent level and run defense numbers, which are great

I think it's like somebody complaining that a deep threat wrs numbers suck, but then you look at the QB he had and realize he had a noodle arm 

 

I trust our front office to judge that appropriately

(Jesus. That's just something I never thought I'd say... Trusting our front office...)

[mrags]

I’ve been watching videos in this kid. Mainly because he is talked about as the best possible option for us at 9. 

 

Honestly..... I don’t get all the hype. Yes, the kid is really good. But I think many freak athletes who are really good playing in the conference he plays in would also look really good. I think I keep seeing him listed at 275lbs. That seems a little undersized for a DT in the NFL. I know he’ll be able to bulk up and add weight, but the size worries me for an interior DLinemen. 

 

I know I’ll mostly get destroyed for this. But I’d like to hear the arguments for or against him. 

 

2 hours ago, hjnick said:

Maybe the 4-3 would turn him into the rushing superstar he could be.

 

What sucks about Houston's 2018 schedule, Texas Tech was the best team they played... When I watched some of the tape from that game (not a professional here...), he had a decent push in the first quarter and into the second.  After that, he looked gassed out and was not as productive for the rest of the game.

 

I know a lot of people really, really want Oliver (and he looks like a freak), but I really worry about him because I'd like more gametape against P5 lines and how he would have produced against them (more real tape against better competition).

 

Let's face it, Texas Tech's offensive line is not like Alabama's or Wisconsin's Oline and IMO Tech's Oline did a good job neutralizing him.

 

So how would he do against NFL lines?   

I know it’s not just me then 

[SouthNYfan]

17 minutes ago, mrags said:

I’ve been watching videos in this kid. Mainly because he is talked about as the best possible option for us at 9. 

 

Honestly..... I don’t get all the hype. Yes, the kid is really good. But I think many freak athletes who are really good playing in the conference he plays in would also look really good. I think I keep seeing him listed at 275lbs. That seems a little undersized for a DT in the NFL. I know he’ll be able to bulk up and add weight, but the size worries me for an interior DLinemen. 

 

I know I’ll mostly get destroyed for this. But I’d like to hear the arguments for or against him. 

 

I know it’s not just me then 

 

He's 6'2" and 287 at the combine

Aaron Donald : 6'1" and 275

 

I'm not saying he's Donald, but he seems to do just fine at that size.

I'm just saying his size isn't really an issue.

 

The rest of the questions I agree with.

I'm not sold on him but I wouldn't be upset if we got him.

If we are picking defense and not oline/wr/te (another discussion) then I'm okay with Oliver if he's there at #9

 

[mrags]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

He's 6'2" and 287 at the combine

Aaron Donald : 6'1" and 275

 

I'm not saying he's Donald, but he seems to do just fine at that size.

I'm just saying his size isn't really an issue.

 

The rest of the questions I agree with.

I'm not sold on him but I wouldn't be upset if we got him.

If we are picking defense and not oline/wr/te (another discussion) then I'm okay with Oliver if he's there at #9

 

To me, he doesn’t look even nearly close to the size of a Donald. 

[SouthNYfan]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

To me, he doesn’t look even nearly close to the size of a Donald. 

 

Well combine measurements aren't estimates.

Donald has bulked up a bit since.

Google search has him at 280-285 now, so who knows.

Oliver doesn't look small to me though.

[LSHMEAB]

Star is being paid 10 mil a year to eat space, so one would expect the 3T DT to have plenty of opportunities to get to the QB. Interesting read about Oliver and the scheme. I'd be fine if he were the pick at 9. 

[mrags]

4 minutes ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Well combine measurements aren't estimates.

Donald has bulked up a bit since.

Google search has him at 280-285 now, so who knows.

Oliver doesn't look small to me though.

Like I said. I’m sure I’m in the minority. It’s just what I see. He still hasn’t done it against very good competition. Who knows. Maybe he doesn’t lose a step at all, maybe he ends up looking lost out there against starting NFL caliber talent. 

 

Wilkins and Burns are my pics. Both play against better competition. Both look the part. But I cannot won this argument because the rest of the football watching world disagrees with me. Time will tell I guess. 

[SouthNYfan]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

Like I said. I’m sure I’m in the minority. It’s just what I see. He still hasn’t done it against very good competition. Who knows. Maybe he doesn’t lose a step at all, maybe he ends up looking lost out there against starting NFL caliber talent. 

 

Wilkins and Burns are my pics. Both play against better competition. Both look the part. But I cannot won this argument because the rest of the football watching world disagrees with me. Time will tell I guess. 

 

Oh listen I'm not telling you I'm all in on Oliver

I'm just saying that size isn't his problem and I used Donald as a size comp

Everything else is you said is definitely valid and makes sense

[mrags]

1 minute ago, SouthNYfan said:

 

Oh listen I'm not telling you I'm all in on Oliver

I'm just saying that size isn't his problem and I used Donald as a size comp

Everything else is you said is definitely valid and makes sense

I get it. I’d also point out that Donald is an exception. Not the rule. Most good DTs in the league are much closer to the 300lb mark or over. 

 

Donald just happens to be a freak 

Edited April 8, 2019 by mrags

[SouthNYfan]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

I get it. I’d also point out that Donald is an exception. Not the rule. Most good DTs in the league are much closer to the 300lb mark or over. 

 

Donald just happens to be a freak 

 

Like Oliver??

 

Sorry I had to.

[mrags]

Just now, SouthNYfan said:

 

Like Oliver??

 

Sorry I had to.

Well played 

[SouthNYfan]

3 minutes ago, mrags said:

Well played 

 

I had to.

You tossed me a softball.

[YattaOkasan]

He anchors against double teams well. Not sure what else he needs weight for. I sorta wish they had just broken down last years snaps and grades and not the last 3 years. Tillery’s pass rush score was what I noted most about that presentation. He was better rusher from nose and non nose. I’m sure he’s worse against the run. 

[Mat68]

3 hours ago, hjnick said:

Maybe the 4-3 would turn him into the rushing superstar he could be.

 

What sucks about Houston's 2018 schedule, Texas Tech was the best team they played... When I watched some of the tape from that game (not a professional here...), he had a decent push in the first quarter and into the second.  After that, he looked gassed out and was not as productive for the rest of the game.

 

I know a lot of people really, really want Oliver (and he looks like a freak), but I really worry about him because I'd like more gametape against P5 lines and how he would have produced against them (more real tape against better competition).

 

Let's face it, Texas Tech's offensive line is not like Alabama's or Wisconsin's Oline and IMO Tech's Oline did a good job neutralizing him.

 

So how would he do against NFL lines?   

As an undersized Dt, he was asked to play nose tackle.  Heads up over the center.  The offense double even triple teamed him all game.  He is a perfect 3 tech.  Utilize his rare speed and quickness to penetrate by lining him up in gap of the guard and tackle.  Seemed to me Houston used him to take up as many blockers as possible, while still asking him to make plays.  When he was allowed to rush from non-nose positions he rank near the top of the class.