"Hey, which way is north?"

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/25/world/europe/wdl-aviation-british-airways-germany-scotland.html

 

 

[stuvian]

at least he got the continent right

[Marv's Neighbor]

That happens when an airline relies on low bid contractors who maybe work too many flights, for too many different airlines.  Any in house person would have realized that the flight number was not correct for that segment/sector.  Then you get a complacent aircrew that just look at the flight plan, and enter the same incorrect data into the flight management computer on the plane.   Just because it's properly formatted and printed does not make it correct.  Take-off, engage the auto pilot, and not pay attention to where the plane is actually heading.  Many airlines keep the shades mostly drawn, so the passengers can use the entertainment systems, making the passengers mostly clueless.  I guess none of the passengers were paying attention to the map feature in the entertainment system?

[sherpa]

1 hour ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

That happens when an airline relies on low bid contractors who maybe work too many flights, for too many different airlines.  Any in house person would have realized that the flight number was not correct for that segment/sector.  Then you get a complacent aircrew that just look at the flight plan, and enter the same incorrect data into the flight management computer on the plane.   Just because it's properly formatted and printed does not make it correct.  Take-off, engage the auto pilot, and not pay attention to where the plane is actually heading.  Many airlines keep the shades mostly drawn, so the passengers can use the entertainment systems, making the passengers mostly clueless.  I guess none of the passengers were paying attention to the map feature in the entertainment system?

 

The part of your post after the second sentence is inaccurate and impossible.

The crew thought the flight was going to Edinburgh.

That's what it was filed for and that's what their flight plan said.

 

It is not remotely possible to "take-off, engage the autopilot and not pay attention to where the airplane is heading."

 

Nor is it possible to not notice that if you think you are flying from London City airport to Dusseldorf, which is a largely easterly heading, that you would not notice that you didn't fly over the English Channel, transit Belgian or Netherlands airspace and talk to their controllers and enter Germany, but instead head northwest and check in with Scottish.

 

Again, they were told the flight was to Edinburgh and flew the plan as intended.

 

 

[row_33]

1 hour ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

That happens when an airline relies on low bid contractors who maybe work too many flights, for too many different airlines.  Any in house person would have realized that the flight number was not correct for that segment/sector.  Then you get a complacent aircrew that just look at the flight plan, and enter the same incorrect data into the flight management computer on the plane.   Just because it's properly formatted and printed does not make it correct.  Take-off, engage the auto pilot, and not pay attention to where the plane is actually heading.  Many airlines keep the shades mostly drawn, so the passengers can use the entertainment systems, making the passengers mostly clueless.  I guess none of the passengers were paying attention to the map feature in the entertainment system?

 

don't they have quotas to fill and defeats of all vital physical and mental challenges once set up for hiring policies at global corporations?

 

 

[Marv's Neighbor]

3 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

The part of your post after the second sentence is inaccurate and impossible.

The crew thought the flight was going to Edinburgh.

That's what it was filed for and that's what their flight plan said.

 

It is not remotely possible to "take-off, engage the autopilot and not pay attention to where the airplane is heading."

 

Nor is it possible to not notice that if you think you are flying from London City airport to Dusseldorf, which is a largely easterly heading, that you would not notice that you didn't fly over the English Channel, transit Belgian or Netherlands airspace and talk to their controllers and enter Germany, but instead head northwest and check in with Scottish.

 

Again, they were told the flight was to Edinburgh and flew the plan as intended.

 

 

The crew was told?  Who "told" them?  The contract Dispatcher, Ground Ops, the crew desk?  Questions should have been raised well before the plane left the gate.  Was there maybe a last minute;  crew change, gate change, plane change etc., that contributed to the 'mix up?"  That's not mentioned, but you have to wonder. If the crew boarded through the terminal, what did the gate signs say?  Do they ever notice all the handle tags on the luggage, or maybe look at an airbill when they're on the ramp?  Simply saying they "flew the plan as intended," is just trying to rationalize what happened.  All the passengers "intended" to deplane at Dusseldorf! The company obviously intended that to happen too.

[sherpa]

16 minutes ago, Marv's Neighbor said:

The crew was told?  Who "told" them?  The contract Dispatcher, Ground Ops, the crew desk?  Questions should have been raised well before the plane left the gate.  Was there maybe a last minute;  crew change, gate change, plane change etc., that contributed to the 'mix up?"  That's not mentioned, but you have to wonder. If the crew boarded through the terminal, what did the gate signs say?  Do they ever notice all the handle tags on the luggage, or maybe look at an airbill when they're on the ramp?  Simply saying they "flew the plan as intended," is just trying to rationalize what happened.  All the passengers "intended" to deplane at Dusseldorf! The company obviously intended that to happen too.

 

Their schedule told them.

They have a schedule and they do not change that without notification. It involves a number of things, hotel/transportation changes etc., so if there is a change to your schedule, you know it.

 

I'm not familiar with London City airport, so it may be that the crew boards from the ramp, or there are no terminal ..destination signs, and I have never looked at baggage tags. 

 

Still, I am very familiar with flight management system uploads and how flights are managed from the flight deck.

You don't get the plan up-link until you type in the destination ICAO identiier.

Not possible they typed in the identifier for Edinburgh instead of Dusseldorf, as it would cause a host of other issues.

 

Point is they were expecting to fly to Edinburgh, had a flight plan for Edinburgh, loaded the flight management system for Edinburgh and flew to Edinburgh.

Not possible to stare at a screen that displays your route and not notice it is going northwest instead of east, and a hundred other things that would have tipped them off.

In short, not their issue.

 

 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

Their schedule told them.

They have a schedule and they do not change that without notification. It involves a number of things, hotel/transportation changes etc., so if there is a change to your schedule, you know it.

 

I'm not familiar with London City airport, so it may be that the crew boards from the ramp, or there are no terminal ..destination signs, and I have never looked at baggage tags. 

 

Still, I am very familiar with flight management system uploads and how flights are managed from the flight deck.

You don't get the plan up-link until you type in the destination ICAO identiier.

Not possible they typed in the identifier for Edinburgh instead of Dusseldorf, as it would cause a host of other issues.

 

Point is they were expecting to fly to Edinburgh, had a flight plan for Edinburgh, loaded the flight management system for Edinburgh and flew to Edinburgh.

Not possible to stare at a screen that displays your route and not notice it is going northwest instead of east, and a hundred other things that would have tipped them off.

In short, not their issue.

 

 

 

Sherpa, Sherpa -

 

They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into.

 

I say, "Let 'em crash!"

 

[sherpa]

11 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

Sherpa, Sherpa -

 

They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into.

 

I say, "Let 'em crash!"

 

 

The "they" in my post was in answer to a question about the  cockpit crew.

 

Nothing to do with the passengers.

[Ted Striker]

26 minutes ago, sherpa said:

The "they" in my post was in answer to a question about the cockpit.

 

The cockpit! What is it?

[KD in CA]

2 minutes ago, Ted Striker said:

 

The cockpit! What is it?

 

It's the place where the pilot sits but that's not important right now!

[Gray Beard]

Doesn’t a flight attendant say “welcome aboard flight xxx to destination yyy” as the doors are closing?  Or is that old fashioned, and they don’t do that anymore?

 

Or did the flight attendants know where they were supposed to go, but the cockpit crew was given the wrong flight plan, and nobody noticed?

Edited March 26, 2019 by Gray Beard

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

It's the place where the pilot sits but that's not important right now!

 

...captain, how soon till we can land?

 

...I can't tell.

 

You can tell me, I'm a doctor.

 

No, I mean I'm just not sure.

[sherpa]

21 minutes ago, Gray Beard said:

Doesn’t a flight attendant say “welcome aboard flight xxx to destination yyy” as the doors are closing?  Or is that old fashioned, and they don’t do that anymore?

 

Or did the flight attendants know where they were supposed to go, but the cockpit crew was given the wrong flight plan, and nobody noticed?

 

The flight attendants thought the flight was scheduled for Ediburgh as well.

It is called a "wet lease," where the entire operation is subbed out to a leasing company.

You don't have to worry about it in the US.

Contracts prohibit it.

10 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

...captain, how soon till we can land?

 

...I can't tell.

 

You can tell me, I'm a doctor.

 

No, I mean I'm just not sure.

 

"Well can you guess?"

 

"In about two hours."

 

"You can guess in about two hours?"

[boater]

2 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

Sherpa, Sherpa -

 

They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into.

 

I say, "Let 'em crash!"

 

I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue.

 

Really.

Edited March 26, 2019 by boater

[Augie]

It beats the Malaysia fiasco! 

[Marv's Neighbor]

19 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Their schedule told them.

They have a schedule and they do not change that without notification. It involves a number of things, hotel/transportation changes etc., so if there is a change to your schedule, you know it.

 

I'm not familiar with London City airport, so it may be that the crew boards from the ramp, or there are no terminal ..destination signs, and I have never looked at baggage tags. 

 

Still, I am very familiar with flight management system uploads and how flights are managed from the flight deck.

You don't get the plan up-link until you type in the destination ICAO identiier.

Not possible they typed in the identifier for Edinburgh instead of Dusseldorf, as it would cause a host of other issues.

 

Point is they were expecting to fly to Edinburgh, had a flight plan for Edinburgh, loaded the flight management system for Edinburgh and flew to Edinburgh.

Not possible to stare at a screen that displays your route and not notice it is going northwest instead of east, and a hundred other things that would have tipped them off.

In short, not their issue.

 

 

I guess it never is!

[/dev/null]

 

[4merper4mer]

The Earth's poles are shifting and it is starting to show.

[ExiledInIllinois]

21 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

The Earth's poles are shifting and it is starting to show.

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2019/02/05/the-magnetic-north-pole-is-mysteriously-moving-and-the-us-government-finally-caught-up/?outputType=amp-type

 

It's always the Canadians!  /smh...

[/dev/null]

7 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

The Earth's poles are shifting and it is starting to show.

 

6 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

https://www.adn.com/nation-world/2019/02/05/the-magnetic-north-pole-is-mysteriously-moving-and-the-us-government-finally-caught-up/?outputType=amp-type

 

It's always the Canadians!  /smh...

 

kinda like when you're standing at a urinal and realize that your underwear shifted around and the d*ckhole is off to the side.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

On 3/27/2019 at 11:12 PM, 4merper4mer said:

The Earth's poles are shifting and it is starting to show.

A lot have moved out of Cheektowaga...

*

When the people got off the errant plane, was there a sign telling them they were in ‘Goslow’?

[WotAGuy]

Once again, the customers were the only ones that knew what the $&@! was (supposed to be) going on. 

[Chef Jim]

I'm actually quite surprised that something like this doesn't happen more often.  And to the person that asked don't they say "welcome to flight _________ heading to ________"?  I fly several times a year and yes they do say that.  Maybe they said it in English and everyone on the plane spoke German??  The chance of that is slim and none so they may just have not mentioned it.  

[DC Tom]

On 3/26/2019 at 2:06 PM, sherpa said:

 

Their schedule told them.

They have a schedule and they do not change that without notification. It involves a number of things, hotel/transportation changes etc., so if there is a change to your schedule, you know it.

 

I'm not familiar with London City airport, so it may be that the crew boards from the ramp, or there are no terminal ..destination signs, and I have never looked at baggage tags. 

 

Still, I am very familiar with flight management system uploads and how flights are managed from the flight deck.

You don't get the plan up-link until you type in the destination ICAO identiier.

Not possible they typed in the identifier for Edinburgh instead of Dusseldorf, as it would cause a host of other issues.

 

Point is they were expecting to fly to Edinburgh, had a flight plan for Edinburgh, loaded the flight management system for Edinburgh and flew to Edinburgh.

Not possible to stare at a screen that displays your route and not notice it is going northwest instead of east, and a hundred other things that would have tipped them off.

In short, not their issue.

 

 

 

You don't even need that much knowledge to see this.  With all the controlled air space they'd be flying through, how in the hell could it be the pilots that screwed up?  Regional ATC centers would have had to have that flight plan on file.  

[KD in CA]

On 3/31/2019 at 11:53 AM, DC Tom said:

 

You don't even need that much knowledge to see this.  With all the controlled air space they'd be flying through, how in the hell could it be the pilots that screwed up?  Regional ATC centers would have had to have that flight plan on file.  

 

CNN would have been in ‘rogue airplane coverage’ hysteria mode before they even attempted to land.