Everyone talks OL and WR, but our ST sucked last season

[Golden Goat]

2 hours ago, Seoulful Soul said:

 

Everything weak needs to be addressed.

 

Which is why your original post got so many replies. Glad you understand now.

[tumaro02]

So is your point we should be signing people to help ST in which they are doing that or not signing people to help to promote a specific narrative? or 2. just to find something to criticize?

[Seoulful Soul]

11 minutes ago, tumaro02 said:

So is your point we should be signing people to help ST in which they are doing that or not signing people to help to promote a specific narrative? or 2. just to find something to criticize?

 

If you bothered to read anything other than the OP, I said this is good they are addressing all weaknesses of the team, since ST seems to something glossed over.  Is there a reason for your highly aggressive sounding response?   Are you looking to argue and fight with someone you will never meet in your life?

[billsfan1959]

35 minutes ago, Seoulful Soul said:

 

If you bothered to read anything other than the OP, I said this is good they are addressing all weaknesses of the team, since ST seems to something glossed over.  Is there a reason for your highly aggressive sounding response?   Are you looking to argue and fight with someone you will never meet in your life?

He simply asked you a question. Stop being so thin skinned. Throughout this thread, you have been engaging in the very same behavior you are railing against.

[1ManRaid]

8 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

He simply asked you a question. Stop being so thin skinned. Throughout this thread, you have been engaging in the very same behavior you are railing against.

Ya the guy berating everyone else for "talking tough" from the safety of the internet is tossing the most threats, lul.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

10 hours ago, Seoulful Soul said:

 

Yes I do.  But I also know that ST normal has that.  And giving up huge returns and stupid flags on ST plays is completely inexcusable.  I was on shoutcast here during games.  People on this site were screaming for Crossman's head with good reason.

Crossman wasn't the reason for the flags

[ProcessTruster]

15 hours ago, BuffAlone said:

I think this fact is very well known. This is not breaking news

and is obviously being addressed in FA.  Please pay attention OP.  

[Coach Tuesday]

I've always that that Special Teams was a reflection of the Head Coach.  It's not just a matter of picking up good bottom-53 players who can man the Teams, it's making sure to focus on it in practice (the best coaches give it almost an equal footing with Defense and Offense), film study, and game preparation.

 

PLUS in a salary cap league, focusing on Teams is a great way to improve your margin of victory at a low cost - it's inexpensive to sign quality special team players and coaches and focus on it during the week.

 

Beane seems to understand the importance of it.  Not yet sure that McDermott does.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

13 hours ago, SoTier said:

t

 

Yeah, blame Crossman for not being able to turn crap into gold and fire his ass.  McBeane did the same with Castillo the OL coach.  McBeane seem to be really good at using scapegoats to disguise their own shortcomings in evaluating personnel.

 

 Special team doesn’t require all stars. The ST unit was undisciplined and poorly coached. 

 

‘Scapegoat’ is a victim mentality interpretation.  

 

Holding coaches accountable for results is simply  strong competitive leadership.

 

Some folks can’t handle it and think that’s unfair.

 

I remind my kids constantly the world is not fair. 

[Buffalo Junction]

26 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

I've always that that Special Teams was a reflection of the Head Coach.  It's not just a matter of picking up good bottom-53 players who can man the Teams, it's making sure to focus on it in practice (the best coaches give it almost an equal footing with Defense and Offense), film study, and game preparation.

 

PLUS in a salary cap league, focusing on Teams is a great way to improve your margin of victory at a low cost - it's inexpensive to sign quality special team players and coaches and focus on it during the week.

 

Beane seems to understand the importance of it.  Not yet sure that McDermott does.

Good points. The other aspect is LB, S, CB, and TE depth. The backups at those positions often make up the core of your “teams” groups, and we had a serious lack of talent at those spots last season. Hopefully Beanes depth changes and the new coach bring us back up to par with the rest of the league. 

[machine gun kelly]

That’s why we picked up the best returner for kicks and punts in the NFL, and a top flight gunner.

[iinii]

No depth behind a bunch of young guys and the STs usual suffer.

[Pete]

BTW Everyone talks OL and WR .  I myself am talking about DT/Edge.  WR is much lower on my priority list below-OL,TE, RB

[MrEpsYtown]

8 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Crossman wasn't the reason for the flags

 

Ethan I respect your opinion, but man you defend Jon Miller, Jordan Mills, and Danny Crossman? You are certainly on your own island my friend. Crossman was terrible and if the guys on your squad are committing lots of penalties, it's becuase your scheme sucks or you aren't teaching proper technique. It's a coache's job to get the best out his players, and that is why Crossman and Castillo are gone. Crossman got hired by a tanking team to help the tank and Castillo has no job. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by MrEpsYtown

[SoTier]

7 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

 

 Special team doesn’t require all stars. The ST unit was undisciplined and poorly coached. 

 

‘Scapegoat’ is a victim mentality interpretation.  

 

Holding coaches accountable for results is simply  strong competitive leadership.

 

Some folks can’t handle it and think that’s unfair.

 

I remind my kids constantly the world is not fair. 

 

Apparently, everybody is accountable except for McDermott and Beane -- y'know, the guys who hire assistant coaches and make decisions on players.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Apparently, everybody is accountable except for McDermott and Beane -- y'know, the guys who hire assistant coaches and make decisions on players.

 

I’m not sure the point here so tears... but firing people you hired and cutting people you acquired is absolutely holding oneself accountable 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Ethan I respect your opinion, but man you defend Jon Miller, Jordan Mills, and Danny Crossman? You are certainly on your own island my friend. Crossman was terrible and if the guys on your squad are committing lots of penalties, it's becuase your scheme sucks or you aren't teaching proper technique. It's a coache's job to get the best out his players, and that is why Crossman and Castillo are gone. Crossman got hired by a tanking team to help the tank and Castillo has no job. 

I'm not defending them. I am just not saying they are the root cause of the problem and simply replacing them will be an improvement.  I don't believe there is any correlation between ST coaches and performance on the field. Look at April and Crossman's careers. They both have had awful and highly rated units.  The Bills have had terrible WR and LB groups for a couple years now and the depth behind the starting secondary has either been injured or just not good. Those positon groups make up the bulk of the important ST groups.  

My question for you is, every person who has ever watched a football game knows you can't block in the back yet game after game multiple penalties.  Do you really think Crossman did not teach that?

And if you throw Crossman under the bus for the penalties, what about the rest of the staff for all the presnap penalties???

Again I don't care one bit who is the ST coach, I just know changing the coach is not an effective improvement strategy.

As for Miller and Mills, neither are even average but had ok moments.  Im just not convinced the replacements, while more expensive are any better. I've also criticized Teller who was even worse last year but hope will improve.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

13 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Crossman wasn't the reason for the flags

 

 

...any idea why he was a holdover through 3 regimes?..........

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

 

...any idea why he was a holdover through 3 regimes?..........

That is a good question. Best guess is within coaching circles he probably knows what he is doing and is respected far more than this board knows his qualifications. 

Again, I don't care who the STs coach is. I won't give any credit to the new coordinator if they perform better nor criticize if they are the same or worse. Its all the players on the field.

 

[JoPar_v2]

20 hours ago, Seoulful Soul said:

 

If you bothered to read anything other than the OP, I said this is good they are addressing all weaknesses of the team, since ST seems to something glossed over.  Is there a reason for your highly aggressive sounding response?   Are you looking to argue and fight with someone you will never meet in your life?

 

I get what you’re saying. I think people came at you because you imply ST is ignored or glossed over. Not here it isn’t. Most people who visit here regularly are pretty plugged in on signings, coaching changes, team stregths, weaknesses, etc. The dismal ST last year did not go unnoticed (there were constant threads about ST every week during the season), nor did the moves the team’s made since then to address it. Suggesting these things were missed may be why you got some of the responses you did.

 

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

6 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

That is a good question. Best guess is within coaching circles he probably knows what he is doing and is respected far more than this board knows his qualifications. 

Again, I don't care who the STs coach is. I won't give any credit to the new coordinator if they perform better nor criticize if they are the same or worse. Its all the players on the field.

 

 

...not 100% sure, but I thought there were some in season ST personnel changes that may have affected him (others will know much better)...but it does appear McBeane & Company are committed to addressing ST personnel along with a new ST Coach.......hopefully better days are ahead..........

[MrEpsYtown]

3 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I'm not defending them. I am just not saying they are the root cause of the problem and simply replacing them will be an improvement.  I don't believe there is any correlation between ST coaches and performance on the field. Look at April and Crossman's careers. They both have had awful and highly rated units.  The Bills have had terrible WR and LB groups for a couple years now and the depth behind the starting secondary has either been injured or just not good. Those positon groups make up the bulk of the important ST groups.  

My question for you is, every person who has ever watched a football game knows you can't block in the back yet game after game multiple penalties.  Do you really think Crossman did not teach that?

And if you throw Crossman under the bus for the penalties, what about the rest of the staff for all the presnap penalties???

Again I don't care one bit who is the ST coach, I just know changing the coach is not an effective improvement strategy.

As for Miller and Mills, neither are even average but had ok moments.  Im just not convinced the replacements, while more expensive are any better. I've also criticized Teller who was even worse last year but hope will improve.

 

Gotcha dude and I'm not trying to call you out, just an observation. I do think coaches are to blame for pre snap penalties and things of that nature. They are clearly doing something wrong. And I think Castillo, Crossman, and Culley had proven that whatever they were doing was ineffective. It's a results orientated job and they were not getting the job done. There was a need for change there. Same for Miller and Mills. Like you said, whether the new guys will be better or not is up for debate and nobody knows, but you have to try something new when things aren't working. Like Albert Einstein said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." It was time for a change in those areas. 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Gotcha dude and I'm not trying to call you out, just an observation. I do think coaches are to blame for pre snap penalties and things of that nature. They are clearly doing something wrong. And I think Castillo, Crossman, and Culley had proven that whatever they were doing was ineffective. It's a results orientated job and they were not getting the job done. There was a need for change there. Same for Miller and Mills. Like you said, whether the new guys will be better or not is up for debate and nobody knows, but you have to try something new when things aren't working. Like Albert Einstein said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." It was time for a change in those areas. 

 

I didn't think you were calling me out. 

I agree change was coming and hope for the better. I'm firmly in the camp that Shady is not in decline and it was all the OL and inexperienced QB play that hampered the run game. 

FYI, there is no evidence Einstein ever said the quote most attributed to him....

 

[Pete]

On 3/23/2019 at 7:06 PM, NoSaint said:

 

Its not a great post and is far from true. Guys like boobie and Easley were great teamers that were bad at their actual jobs as examples. Plenty of good players wouldn’t be particularly good special teamers.

Marcus Easley was a beast on special teams IMO

Edited March 25, 2019 by Pete

[Hapless Bills Fan]

16 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I'm not defending them. I am just not saying they are the root cause of the problem and simply replacing them will be an improvement.  I don't believe there is any correlation between ST coaches and performance on the field.

 

You lost me right there

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but most people involved in sports indeed think coaching has a huge correlation to performance on the field.

In particular, most people would say that whether guys are out of position or miss tackles they are in a position to make and allow a big play has a lot to do with how they are being prepared and coached.  Most people would say whether guys commit dumb penalties also has a lot to do with preparation and is hugely influenced by the coaches.

 

 

13 hours ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Gotcha dude and I'm not trying to call you out, just an observation. I do think coaches are to blame for pre snap penalties and things of that nature. They are clearly doing something wrong. And I think Castillo, Crossman, and Culley had proven that whatever they were doing was ineffective. It's a results orientated job and they were not getting the job done. There was a need for change there. Same for Miller and Mills. Like you said, whether the new guys will be better or not is up for debate and nobody knows, but you have to try something new when things aren't working. Like Albert Einstein said, "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." It was time for a change in those areas. 

 

 

Nit, but the first known published use of this quote is actually a Narcotics Anonymous pamplet.  The misattribution to Einstein is commonly made, however.

 

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/23/same/

[buffaloboyinATL]

I was JUST thinking about this. (back in the first week of free agency when we signed all the special teams upgrades.) 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

18 hours ago, SoTier said:

 

Apparently, everybody is accountable except for McDermott and Beane -- y'know, the guys who hire assistant coaches and make decisions on players.

 

I'm uncertain of your basis for saying this?  A number of folks here regularly express reserved judgement or even doubt about both of them.

We take crap for it to, but it does get expressed.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You lost me right there

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but most people involved in sports indeed think coaching has a huge correlation to performance on the field.

In particular, most people would say that whether guys are out of position or miss tackles they are in a position to make and allow a big play has a lot to do with how they are being prepared and coached.  Most people would say whether guys commit dumb penalties also has a lot to do with preparation and is hugely influenced by the coaches.

 

 

 

Nit, but the first known published use of this quote is actually a Narcotics Anonymous pamplet.  The misattribution to Einstein is commonly made, however.

 

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/23/same/

Defense and offensive coordinators I completely agree that coaching is crucial. Special teams coaching matters very little if at all especially with the rule changes outlawing things like the wedge.