Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 He hasn't signed yet so I doubt he is going to get serious money. I know he is older but I am thinking just a 2-3 year deal. He is a solid player who can open up the field for the WR and RBs. Kroft is a solid #2 and weak #1. Croom is average at best. A trio of Cook, Kroft and a 3-4 round draft pick with a lot of potential seems very good to me, and if they don't get a TE in the first four rounds we still have Croom as the #3. We have a lot of money left and not a lot of guys to spend it on barring a big trade. Cook and Kroft together, along with our two speed guys, Brown and Foster, on the outside, plus Beasley, makes for a lot of possibilities and interchangeable parts in what Daboll likes to do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: He hasn't signed yet so I doubt he is going to get serious money. I know he is older but I am thinking just a 2-3 year deal. He is a solid player who can open up the field for the WR and RBs. Kroft is a solid #2 and weak #1. Croom is average at best. A trio of Cook, Kroft and a 3-4 round draft pick with a lot of potential seems very good to me, and if they don't get a TE in the first four rounds we still have Croom as the #3. We have a lot of money left and not a lot of guys to spend it on barring a big trade. Cook and Kroft together, along with our two speed guys, Brown and Foster, on the outside, plus Beasley, makes for a lot of possibilities and interchangeable parts in what Daboll likes to do. ...interesting assessment I found........valid or not bud?....... "According to Pro Football Focus, Cook graded out as a below-average run blocker in 2018. As we have seen in the early parts of free agency, it’s the “complete” tight ends who are getting paid and not the receiving tight ends. At this stage of his career, it’s unlikely Cook is going to change. In fact, he may only get worse as a blocker as his athleticism fades. " 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I just don't think the NFL is THAT interested in Tight Ends that don't block. Fans look at TE now solely as a receiving position. I just don't think the rest of the NFL does the same. After all, if they just wanted a guy that was good for 6 to 800 yards and was super tall, they would just draft a WR. The TEs value is the dual threat ability. Cook isn't much of a dual threat. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Hammersticks Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I would be all for adding Jared Cook. Not sure why he hasn’t signed yet. I know he got some interest from at least a couple teams. Health issues? Asking for too much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobChalmers Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 They're going to draft Hock. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...interesting assessment I found........valid or not bud?....... "According to Pro Football Focus, Cook graded out as a below-average run blocker in 2018. As we have seen in the early parts of free agency, it’s the “complete” tight ends who are getting paid and not the receiving tight ends. At this stage of his career, it’s unlikely Cook is going to change. In fact, he may only get worse as a blocker as his athleticism fades. " That may be why no one has given him a big contract, and neither would I, but I believe we are past that point now. So he can be had for a reasonable deal, and we have Kroft as the willing blocker and dual threat. Just now, BobChalmers said: They're going to draft Hock. Cook, Kroft and Hock would be fantastic. And there would be room for them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Are Gronk and Kelce great blocking TE's? Ertz? Olsen? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starrymessenger Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 You're missing nothing. That dude can play. Has some nasty in him too. If he's not trying to leverage his 2018 season too much I'd love to see him in a Bills uni, unless the braintrust is looking to use a very early draft pick on a blue chip prospect after a trade down (which I doubt - they are going DT IMO). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DasNootz Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I think teams look at him as fool's gold. His career has been pretty disappointing up until this season, when he was the #1 target in Oakland. His blocking is below average and it sounds like he wants to be paid as a top TE. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, Mr. WEO said: Are Gronk and Kelce great blocking TE's? Ertz? Olsen? Let me think about that no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: Let me think about that no. Gronk is a realllly good blocker. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: Let me think about that no. Exactly. Top TE's are guys who are receiving matchup nightmares. Teams aren't using them for their great blocking skills or "dual threats". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Are Gronk and Kelce great blocking TE's? Ertz? Olsen? Gronk was a monster as a blocker this year. Or so I’m told 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: Gronk is a realllly good blocker. When he wants to be, yes, he is very good, and when he is available. So half the time he is a good blocker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MClem06 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 We trade 9 pick up an extra early second and late 3rd and go down 6 or 7 spots and grab Hockenson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Virgil said: Gronk was a monster as a blocker this year. Or so I’m told Jack Doyle is considered the best blocking TE in the NFL by some. Who wants him over Kelce or Graham or Ertz or Olsen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magox Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Gronk is a dominant blocker. He mauls defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: When he wants to be, yes, he is very good, and when he is available. So half the time he is a good blocker. This is a weird response. I don't really understand what you are driving at. The original point is that the best TEs are also good blockers. Gronk is a great example of that. Kelce is also a really good blocker, but Gronk is better. What does playing time have to do with anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Exactly. Top TE's are guys who are receiving matchup nightmares. Teams aren't using them for their great blocking skills or "dual threats". It's great to have but there are so few of them, like none, except Gronk when he wants to be and is healthy, which ain't often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Are Gronk and Kelce great blocking TE's? Ertz? Olsen? Gronk and Olsen are. Kelce and Ertz are average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, Kelly the Dog said: It's great to have but there are so few of them, like none, except Gronk when he wants to be and is healthy, which ain't often. If you want the "match up nightmare" (far and away my favorite dumb fan cliche) just draft a tall WR. Tight Ends are more than just that. The Tight End position is the most misunderstood in all of football. The great Tight Ends are amazing wide receivers, but they also block really well. Just now, Mat68 said: Gronk and Olsen are. Kelce and Ertz are average. And Cook is well below average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: It's great to have but there are so few of them, like none, except Gronk when he wants to be and is healthy, which ain't often. The criticism was upstream is that Cook isn't a great blocker and that teams favor equally good blocking and receiving. It seems to me that's not true. Teams would rather have a TE who can't be covered by LBs and Safeties more so than a guy who will hang back to be another O-lineman on a few plays. 1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: If you want the "match up nightmare" (far and away my favorite dumb fan cliche) just draft a tall WR. Tight Ends are more than just that. The Tight End position is the most misunderstood in all of football. The great Tight Ends are amazing wide receivers, but they also block really well. And Cook is well below average. You say that without apparent irony.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 11 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: That may be why no one has given him a big contract, and neither would I, but I believe we are past that point now. So he can be had for a reasonable deal, and we have Kroft as the willing blocker and dual threat. Cook, Kroft and Hock would be fantastic. And there would be room for them. Believe it or not, teams watch film! All joking aside, this play from late this past season is already infamous: 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: This is a weird response. I don't really understand what you are driving at. The original point is that the best TEs are also good blockers. Gronk is a great example of that. Kelce is also a really good blocker, but Gronk is better. What does playing time have to do with anything? Because when he is having back problems he is not a great or very willing blocker, which is a lot of the time. Kelce is a decent blocker. He's quite good for a great receiving TE but that doesn't mean he's any Lee Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: Believe it or not, teams watch film! All joking aside, this play from late this past season is already infamous: I'm sure that's Gruden's lasting image of Carr as well... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 A TE that blocks good can totally help the run game. So pick one. Dominant running game or a TE that can go for 800 yards. I’d take the running game. Hoping Kroft and the rest of the new lineman bring Shady back to his glory days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Jack Doyle is considered the best blocking TE in the NFL by some. Who wants him over Kelce or Graham or Ertz or Olsen? Oh, I’m not contributing to the argument about blocking TE’s being better. I’m just saying Gronk can block 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: Believe it or not, teams watch film! All joking aside, this play from late this past season is already infamous: We have seen Cook for years. He's almost always been an underachiever. I don't think he is in the top 10 TEs or anything, but we have like the top 39th and the top 87th. He would make a lousy group into a decent group. Team him with Kroft and a talented rook and suddenly we may have a good room. Right now we are at the very bottom of the league still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said: If you want the "match up nightmare" (far and away my favorite dumb fan cliche) just draft a tall WR. Tight Ends are more than just that. The Tight End position is the most misunderstood in all of football. The great Tight Ends are amazing wide receivers, but they also block really well. And Cook is well below average. That's why he is not signed. That's what makes the good ones such match up nightmares. One play they are inline blocking, split him out vs a linebaker. They switch a safety or corner on him. Motion in and run at the saftey or corner. Easier than when he is in it's a pass. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, Mat68 said: That's why he is not signed. That's what makes the good ones such match up nightmares. One play they are inline blocking, split him out vs a linebaker. They switch a safety or corner on him. Motion in and run at the saftey or corner. Easier than when he is in it's a pass. And also why there is only a handful that can do both at a high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: We have seen Cook for years. He's almost always been an underachiever. I don't think he is in the top 10 TEs or anything, but we have like the top 39th and the top 87th. He would make a lousy group into a decent group. Team him with Kroft and a talented rook and suddenly we may have a good room. Right now we are at the very bottom of the league still. Yeah, but ... "not a process guy" is my working assumption. To reiterate, that play was a big deal. Carr blew up at him, and rightly so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Just now, dave mcbride said: Yeah, but ... "not a process guy" is my working assumption. To reiterate, that play was a big deal. Carr blew up at him, and rightly so. I didn't imply he was an Academic All-American. I agree he just may not be a process guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Jmo, but I don’t think the dual capabilities are what drives the TE market today. Yes, of course teams are ever searching for it, but today, the majority of TEs are either/or. That’s what has brought a rise in H-Backs and resurgent FBs. Every team has their short yardage O which may include O or D linemen. Basically, if Gronkowski isn’t available, pick your poison -a huge target for your QB, a solid blocker who won’t pose a real threat downfield or Dawkins/Kyle slipping out into the flat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 25 minutes ago, BobChalmers said: They're going to draft Hock. I honestly hope so. I think he is the one guy who could be there when the Bills pick, that in 3 years could be the best player at his position in the NFL. We haven't had one of those since Bruce. Hock the one and Kroft as the 2 would be great and could help us run a more dynamic offense. Also Hockenson imo is more a sure thing for an elite pass catching option than any receiver in this draft. The guy even has the built in nickname like Gronk does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 28 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Are Gronk and Kelce great blocking TE's? Ertz? Olsen? Gronkowski yes, in fact they had him block a ton during last year’s SB run. The rest are mediocre blockers but their pass catching more than makes up for it. RE Cook- I thought he had a good year on a bad team. He got hot for a few weeks which may have inflated his stats a bit iirc, but he’s a solid option at TE for me. He’s be TE1 immediately on the Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 Another thing about good blocking TEs, or guys who are sometimes considered good blocking TEs, quite a few of them are split out a large portion of the plays, and are all but WRs, and aren't really blocking to the effect that an inline TE who is a good blocker will help the run game. And even if this TE is a good blocker for the run plays while split out, the defense is likely to have one more LB or S in there if he is in there and split wide, which is a harder block than a CB. There are not a lot of dual threat TEs in the league. Cook would be a nice little weapon to add to our revamped passing game. Kroft is average and Croom is not good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 13 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said: Jmo, but I don’t think the dual capabilities are what drives the TE market today. Yes, of course teams are ever searching for it, but today, the majority of TEs are either/or. That’s what has brought a rise in H-Backs and resurgent FBs. Every team has their short yardage O which may include O or D linemen. Basically, if Gronkowski isn’t available, pick your poison -a huge target for your QB, a solid blocker who won’t pose a real threat downfield or Dawkins/Kyle slipping out into the flat. It could be argued that Gronk is the ONLY good blocker among good pass catching TEs at the moment, and I think he'll retire. The other good pass-catching TE who comes to mind as a good run blocker is Delanie Walker, but he missed basically all of last season and is old. He may in fact be done; he'll be 35 when the 2019 season begins and he's coming off a serious, Theisman-esque injury to boot. Dual threats at the position are very hard to find. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshAllenHasBigHands Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 31 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Because when he is having back problems he is not a great or very willing blocker, which is a lot of the time. Kelce is a decent blocker. He's quite good for a great receiving TE but that doesn't mean he's any Lee Smith. That is very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4BillsintheBurgh Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 31 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: Believe it or not, teams watch film! All joking aside, this play from late this past season is already infamous: Seems like a Benjam-esque thing to do. I imagine Gruden was not interested in bringing him back after that one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 There's a reason he's set to be on his 4th team in 5 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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