It's time to draft a TE

[Prickly Pete]

5 hours ago, Pete said:

Keith McKeller aka K-gun

 

"Great"?

You're dreaming

[The Senator]

31 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

I guess that eliminates Ernie Warlick Too.

 

A lot of these posters weren’t around to see ‘Big Hoss’ play in 1965, much less 1962!

 

Guy made the AFL All Star team all four season he played here.  The CFL All Star team before that.

.

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

3 hours ago, Just Joshin' said:

What was the reason he was not used much?

Not really sure. The O.C. never really pushed the TE in the passing game. Watch Nauta to have a good combine and move up boards. 

[The Senator]

6 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

Buffalo hasn't used a high pick (rounds 1-3) on a TE since 2005 when they selected Kevin Everett in the 3rd.  Since that time, several teams have featured TE's who create mismatches, can stretch the middle of the field, and provide Allen with a great weapon.  Most of the top offenses feature one who does just this.   

 

This year's draft offers some solid options and you're not going to find much in free agency.  It's time they use a 2nd or 3rd on a TE.  

 

Everett might have been great - we’ll never know.  Tragic accident.

 

Bills have so many needs, I just don’t see them taking a TE on day one, barring a trade down or other draft day machinations.

 

I could see Jace Sternberger in the 3rd, maybe T.J. Hockenson in the 4th. I really think they’ll wait to take a TE til rounds 4 or 5, when they have 2 picks in each round.

 

JMO

.

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by The Senator

[fansince88]

5 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

 

Pete Metzelaars

 

 

 

This was my thought

 

[Pete]

38 minutes ago, OJ Tom said:

 

"Great"?

You're dreaming

I am guessing you didn’t watch the bills 1988-94?  McKeller was an excellent blocker, and a complete TE, unlike jimmy graham and other too TEs.  Are you familiar with k-gun?

[elltrain22]

Heck yeah! Get one in the first 3 rounds. Which is why we gotta move down, and get some extra premium picks. 

 

Gimmie Irv Smith, TJ Hockenson, Noah Fant, CJ Conrad all day!! All for that, this will really allow our passing game to and running game to open up

[njbuff]

I like Croom a lot more than most of Bills fans.

 

With that said, the Bills should draft a TE in this draft.

[Green Lightning]

18 hours ago, Pete said:

Keith McKeller aka K-gun

McKeller and Metzelaars were good, not great. 

[FeelingOnYouboty]

Kaden Smith-TE Stanford 6’5 255 is the guy I want

[Mr. WEO]

16 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

...and then you went there Weo.

 

Croom does not fit our true TE needs, but could still be a useful part of the Bills offense, and I don't think his personal life, although awkward, is weighing on coaching decisions to play him or not. 

 

His measurables are almost identical to KB's, but he is faster and has better hands. He was the goat last year for trying to do too much on a play, but his heart was in the right place. 

 

His blocking is anywhere from horrifying to work-in-progress, but he can certainly line up as that big TE-sized WR hybrid that KB was supposed to be for the Bills.

 

I felt like he was coming on as more of a receiving option for Allen towards the end of the year.

 

 

 

 

Come on, Croom's a nobody.  3rd TE on any team that's carrying 3.

 

They need to draft TE.  Need at least 2 new TE's on this awful TE roster (as is).

[BillsFan1988]

19 hours ago, row_33 said:

Not a priority for many decades for the Bills, lots of other needs ahead of this.

 

What we need is difference makers and in today NFL other then QB u won't find much positions that make a difference more then a TE. 

 

If the Bills see TJ Hockenson as the next Kelce then it's a no brainer . Can't find these guys in free agency.  Basically franchise QBs & TEs never hit free agency there to valuable .  With that being said take the guy and fill your "needs" elsewhere. 

[Jay_Fixit]

19 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

holy moly how long do you expect this rebuild to take?

Pete Metzelaars

 

But yeah, agreed that has been an empty position for a long time.

Metzelaara and great should never be in the same sentence again.

[Pete]

51 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:

McKeller and Metzelaars were good, not great. 

KGun is one of the greatest offenses in NFL history and McKeller's blocking and receiving abilities helped make that offense go.  Kgun is named after McKeller . Keith = K

Edited February 3, 2019 by Pete

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Come on, Croom's a nobody.  3rd TE on any team that's carrying 3.

 

They need to draft TE.  Need at least 2 new TE's on this awful TE roster (as is).

 

I agree they need an upgrade at TE and Croom is not that guy, but I do think he can be coached up to fill that larger WR option they wanted from KB. If his combine numbers are accurate he has really good size and speed, comparable to KB's except faster.

 

I thought he was making progress last year getting open and catching passes, he needs to get more polished with his route running, but there is no reason not to give it time if he is showing progress. 

 

If the Bills dig into this deep draft and pick up a bona fide TE, I am sure Croom will see less reps so it will sort itself out in regards to how much he can contribute.

[Pete]

Happy Birthday K-Gun Offense

ByRYAN TALBOT Dec 2, 2014

•  
•  
•  
•  

0

The K-Gun offense turned 24 today.

Jim Kelly and the Buffalo Bills unveiled the K-Gun offense on December 2, 1990 against the Philadelphia Eagles. The K-Gun was named after tight end Keith McKeller, an athletic tight end on the Bills. The K-Gun offense revolved around Kelly calling his own plays without huddling the offense. The up-tempo pace made life difficult for defenses. Buffalo's opposition was unable to make personnel changes due to the pace of the Bills offense.

The K-Gun offense was extremely successful for the Bills because of their personnel. Players like Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed, James Lofton, McKeller, Don Beebe and others ran wild and tired out their opponents.

In the K-Gun's debut, Kelly finished the first quarter going 8-for-8 for 229 yards and three touchdowns. He finished the game completing 19-of-32 passes for 334 yards, three touchdowns and one interception. Lofton led all receivers with five receptions going for 174 yards and a touchdown. The Bills defeated the Eagles 30-23 and the NFL was never the same again. 

Start the Conversation

">247Sports

https://247sports.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/Article/Happy-Birthday-K-Gun-Offense-105160360/

•  

[MattM]

17 hours ago, chef4131 said:

Wait a minute I dis agree with this statement 

 

sincerely,

Reuben Gant

His nickname in my house growing up was “Stone Fingers”—never heard “Reuben Gant” on its own without “Stone Fingers” preceding it.....

[GunnerBill]

20 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

Honestly don't know about this. IMO by far and away the best TE last season was Kittle in SF- they had a mediocre offense albeit one decimated by injuries. Kelce is great and played in a great offense, but Ertz is also great and played in a mediocre one. Ebron is a good TE and played in a good offense, but Cook is also a good TE and played in a bad offense. Rams, Saints, Steelers- all top offenses that manage just fine without a top quality TE. I don't think it's a position of importance any moreso than RB to tell the truth, when you look at the distribution of the best tight ends in the league there isn't a ton of correlation between the quality of your offense and the quality of your TE. 

 

I agree with this. I do want the Bills to pick a Tight End. On first look it is a good class. I'd have to be convinced that a guy was the best player on the board to take a tight end in the 1st though. A lot of those TEs mentioned above were 2nd round picks or later. 

16 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

 

I'm not sure how often the Bucs or Steelers line up in 2 TE sets, but just going by these teams it seems to me that having TWO capable tight ends can help diversify your pass offense, but I stand by what I said about RBs playing as important if not more important a role than TEs in the best modern NFL offenses. 

 

The answer to your question is a lot especially Tampa. 

[Green Lightning]

1 hour ago, Pete said:

KGun is one of the greatest offenses in NFL history and McKeller's blocking and receiving abilities helped make that offense go.  Kgun is named after McKeller . Keith = K

That's all true, he was a key weapon in an great offense. That said, as a tight end he was not in the class of a Witton, Gates or a Gronk. Very good but not great.

[WideNine]

I began to think more about TE's in this draft when struggling to rank the WR's that were available. I don't think I am that alone this year - Bleacher Report which usually has some strong draft opinions only has N'Keal Harry going before TE's in the 1st... so we are not alone. They have Buffalo taking Bama's Jonah Williams which OBD may talk themselves into - not sure if he is a #9 talent, but could be splitting hairs as most reviews that do not focus on his height (a mere 6' 5") and arm length, cannot deny he has been productive.

 

Not that every TE is going to be San Fran's Kittle, but at 1377 yards, he was just shy of Tyreek Hill's league leading yards. He also came out of that same Iowa program as Fant and Hockenson and is only in his 2nd year. If we could get close to that level of production out of a TE with some blocking too, that would be a pick well spent.

 

Kittle went in the 5th round. He was ranked the fifth best tight end prospect in the draft by NFL analyst Mike Mayock, sixth best by NFL analyst Gil Brandt, and was ranked the eighth best tight end by NFLDraftScout.com. Last year he set NFL records so, that tells you a bit about how expert the experts are.

 

Honestly, it is pretty tough this year to gauge 1st round talent. There are a few really outstanding players, they show up in big games and against good competition. Then you hit a log jam of prospects that all have potential upside. If the Bills stay at their 9th pick I see them taking one of the top defensive talents. If they trade down and pick up an extra 2nd, they could go in any direction with a later 1st round selection: great defensive prospect that fell, offensive lineman, WR, or standout TE (but as others have noted, TE's usually are not taken in the 1st).

 

I pulled the 1st round TE notable list looks like it was since 2002 from NFL.com (below). I would add Ebron (2014) to the list because apparently Detroit does not know how to use a TE and Indy does as he had a pro-bowl year in his new system and O. J. Howard has been productive for Tampa. Gronk was a second rounder with 1st round value... if Hock gets through the first, he would be worth the second round look.

 

Kittle's success has teams looking more closely at TE's coming out of that Iowa program so Fant and Hock will both go this year - just a matter of where.  The Patriots dipped into the 1st twice and the 2nd round once for TE's this past decade, Iowa's program is run by a former Patriot's TE coach, so it is not inconceivable that they will do so again with their 1st or 2nd pick. One way to extend the noodle arm of Brady is to have someone like Hockenson as an outlet receiver. That being said, it has been a while since a notable TE has been taken in the 1st.

 

As you look through draft sites now as opposed to a month ago most have a 1-2 round grade on Hockenson. If we miss on him I also like the kid from San Diego too Josh Oliver. He is a very fluid runner and has great balance, the book on him is that he has great hands and is a former basketball standout. Came from Allen's neck of the woods in California so perhaps they would get along on and off the field. Would have to work on his blocking, but I like his upside as a later round option.

 

* O. J. Howard, Tampa Bay

1. Vernon Davis, 49ers (No. 6, 2006)
2. Dallas Clark, Colts (No. 24, 2003)
3. Heath Miller, Steelers (No. 30, 2005)
4. Kellen Winslow, Browns (No. 6. 2004)
5. Brandon Pettigrew, Lions (No. 20, 2009)
6. Jeremy Shockey, Giants (No. 14, 2002)
7. Dustin Keller, Jets (No. 30, 2008)
8. Marcedes Lewis, Jaguars (No. 28, 2006)
9. Jermaine Gresham, Bengals (No. 21, 2010)
10. Daniel Graham, Patriots (No. 21, 2002)
11. Greg Olsen, Bears (No. 31, 2007)
12. Ben Watson, Patriots (No. 32, 2004)
13. Jerramy Stevens, (No. 28, 2002)

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by WideNine

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree with this. I do want the Bills to pick a Tight End. On first look it is a good class. I'd have to be convinced that a guy was the best player on the board to take a tight end in the 1st though. A lot of those TEs mentioned above were 2nd round picks or later. 

Man that would be a real waste imo...much like RB I don’t think there’s any value in taking a tight end in the first. 

[Da webster guy]

Croom played well from what I saw.  Had a great learning year, had a few dozen targets and caught most of em, rose to the occassion when given the chance.  He might very well beat out whoever we draft in training camp.  Has good hands, good size, can run.  

He went undrafted more due to injury concerns than ability.  Had some major ones and missed a lot of time back in school.  

[WideNine]

4 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Man that would be a real waste imo...much like RB I don’t think there’s any value in taking a tight end in the first. 

 

I know that hindsight is 20/20, but in 2010 we picked C J Spiller in the 1st and Torrel Troup in the 2nd. NE picked Gronkowski in the 2nd.

 

Would Gronk had made a better value in the 1st for the Bills?

 

I am with you on the RB ranking, because I think good o-lines make average RB's look great. I am also against taking any of this year's WRs or TEs at the 9th pick, but if the Bills trade down I am fine with a lower 1st or early 2nd if the TE they target is the BPA. People seem ok with drafting from an average crop of WR's in the 1st yet struggle with the idea of grabbing from an above average crop of TE's. Probably has more to do with the fact that we have pressing o-line needs too that are weighing on draft value.

 

I think there are plenty of solid RT's and a few Guards that will be available from the later 2nd through the 5th. Center I would like to see them fill with a vet if they do not break the bank on one - would have been sold on taking Biadasz early if he declared - he didn't, so have set my hopes on FA.

 

 

[TheBeaneBandit]

I've been feeling the Bills will try and trade up from their 2nd round pick most likely for a OT, maybe WR. But if Hockenson is still floating around in the late 20's I'm totally on board with the Bills putting together a package to go up and get him. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by TheBeaneBandit

[GoBills808]

Just now, WideNine said:

 

I know that hindsight is 20/20, but in 2010 we picked C J Spiller in the 1st and Torrel Troup in the 2nd. NE picked Gronkowski in the 2nd.

 

Would Gronk had made a better value in the 1st for the Bills?

 

I am with you on the RB ranking, because I think good o-lines make average RB's look great. I am also against taking any of this year's WRs or TEs at the 9th pick, but if the Bills trade down I am fine with a lower 1st or early 2nd if the TE they target is the BPA. People seem ok with drafting from an average crop of WR's in the 1st yet struggle with the idea of grabbing from an above average crop of TE's. Probably has more to do with the fact that we have pressing o-line needs too that are weighing on draft value.

 

I think there are plenty of solid RT's and a few Guards that will be available from the later 2nd through the 5th. Center I would like to see them fill with a vet if they do not break the bank on one - would have been sold on taking Biadasz early if he declared - he didn't, so have set my hopes on FA.

 

 

I didn’t mean value in a player-for-player sense, more position wise. I think it’s way more important, if you want a great offense, to have good wideouts and RBs than it is to have a good TE. And I don’t advocate for drafting RB before the 3rd.

[3rdand12]

22 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I fully agree, but I also think I’m higher on Croom than most people. We need to add talent, and Croom needs to learn when he’s no longer going forward to find the stinkin’ ground while holding onto the darn ball! 

Daboll had good things to say about his progress. I suspect he will continue to improve with Allen etc.

Still need to add/improve the TE group imho

[WideNine]

41 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I didn’t mean value in a player-for-player sense, more position wise. I think it’s way more important, if you want a great offense, to have good wideouts and RBs than it is to have a good TE. And I don’t advocate for drafting RB before the 3rd.

 

I want the Bills to beat NE so badly that I can taste it, but I think success for us will come with balance across the board with our offensive weapons. Last year I did not feel that our RBs or TE's really contributed enough to this concept - some of that was the skill, some of that was the o-line. I think if we fix the o-line, and fix the TE position our offense will have more balance. I would like to see a nice outside receiving threat as well to compliment Foster, but I do not see any that I am sold on as day one guys.

 

Funny clip from a great coach that always has that hung over look (I love his delusional line) :

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:

Man that would be a real waste imo...much like RB I don’t think there’s any value in taking a tight end in the first. 

 

And generally I agree (well certainly top half of the 1st round). But there are exceptions - just as Zeke and Barkley and Gurley were at running back. You have to be convinced the guy is absolutely the biggest difference maker on the board and to me there are very few Tight Ends who are going to be that inside the first 15 picks of any NFL draft. 

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Da webster guy said:

Croom played well from what I saw.  Had a great learning year, had a few dozen targets and caught most of em, rose to the occassion when given the chance.  He might very well beat out whoever we draft in training camp.  Has good hands, good size, can run.  

He went undrafted more due to injury concerns than ability.  Had some major ones and missed a lot of time back in school.  

 

McBeane will not enter 2019 with Jason Croom as the starter, especially because he has that injury history and they'll seek to have more competition at the position.

 

Croom also isn't the blocker that I think they're looking for to help establish the running game.   

 

 

[Pete]

I think the Bills draft a TE this season(maybe two- 10 picks is fun!), and possibly add a veteran too.  Maybe someone like Maxx Williams?  We need a good blocking TE at the very least

Edited February 3, 2019 by Pete

[Prickly Pete]

19 hours ago, Pete said:

I am guessing you didn’t watch the bills 1988-94?  McKeller was an excellent blocker, and a complete TE, unlike jimmy graham and other too TEs.  Are you familiar with k-gun?

 

Ha, yeah I had season tickets.

 

This isn't worth my time...carry on.

[3rdand12]

4 hours ago, WideNine said:

 

I agree they need an upgrade at TE and Croom is not that guy, but I do think he can be coached up to fill that larger WR option they wanted from KB. If his combine numbers are accurate he has really good size and speed, comparable to KB's except faster.

 

I thought he was making progress last year getting open and catching passes, he needs to get more polished with his route running, but there is no reason not to give it time if he is showing progress. 

 

If the Bills dig into this deep draft and pick up a bona fide TE, I am sure Croom will see less reps so it will sort itself out in regards to how much he can contribute.

Good post.

Croom likely has some potential as a hybrid TE/WR. and did improve enough during the season to keep rooting for him. Still need to acquire two more. One blocker with some hands. and perhaps draft the TE of the future for Bills earlier than later : )