Offensive Line: Who Stays Who Goes

[Logic]

Keep Dawkins and Teller. Keep Sirles and McDermott for the time being for depth and competition.

The rest can all battle to the death in a steel cage with Bobby Heenan barred from ringside for the "worst lineman ever" world championship.

[Putin]

2 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Center, guard and right tackle in free agency.  Unless they plan on moving Dawkins then that would shake up what positions need filled then.  Bodine might be kept for depth.  

 

Mills

Miller

Groy 

 

see ya

 

 

What happened to Vlad?

[T master]

I was hoping that they would have a shot at picking up the guy from Bama in the draft but seeing the teams that are a head of the Bills in the draft & winning the last game putting us in the 9th pick in the draft i think Williams will be long gone before the Bills pick comes around .

 

I do believe Bean will have a good choice for where we pick at & i wouldn't put it past him to concocted a way to go up & get Williams if he is still there at a higher pick seeing as there is always some one looking to move in the draft .

 

Even if he goes with eh BPA it will be good for the teams future ...

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Depends how FA goes obviously - but we are in dire need of interior Oline help.

1 hour ago, The Bills Blog said:

People only want Mills back because he got ejected and pumped up the crowd on Sunday.

 

He's struggled to pass protect more than anything else.  He's a UFA though and i wouldn't really pay him much.

[Aussie Joe]

Another team will pay Mills low end starter money like  Seantrel Henderson last year.. 

 

Adios amigo..

[billsfan_34]

Center and Guard is what im looking at! Elevate that play and our tackles suddenly become better. We dont have a guard on the roster that can pull. We also dont have guards or centers on the roster with good technique i.e Teller- Strong but thats it! 

Edited January 3, 2019 by billsfan_34

[LABILLBACKER]

4 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Center, guard and right tackle in free agency.  Unless they plan on moving Dawkins then that would shake up what positions need filled then.  Bodine might be kept for depth.  

 

Mills

Miller

Groy 

 

see ya

Add Ducasse to the cut list and that's about right. They will probably keep Mills and  Bodine as depth. Keep developing Teller and sign Paradis. And Jonah is still in play at LT, slide Dawkins to RT. No clue who's going to play RG?

[Rocky Landing]

O-line does seem to me to be one of the positions that players often get better beyond their first few years. I think Mills is an example of this. So was Ritchie Incognito, for that matter. I don't think we should lose Miller, for that reason. I think Teller could end up being great. Really, I think this should be a discussion of who our starters are, not necessarily who we simply cut. We need more than five quality O-linemen.

 

That being said, Ducasse is a nine year vet that isn't going to get any better, and IMO is a weak link. Cut him. I wouldn't miss him. Didn't love Bodine, either. Cut him. I know a lot of people were highly critical of Groy when he came in for Bodine in the first Miami game, but he also got better by the end of the season IMO. And, his versatility is what has kept him on the team. I think he should remain, but certainly not as a starter.

 

Dion Dawkins has been an above average LT, but he he did have his issues this season. But, he was listed at guard in the draft. Is it out of the question to move him inside? Could Dawkins/Teller develop into a good guard combo?

 

In my opinion, the best O-lines are the ones that play well as a unit, and I hope this is why Castillo is gone. O-line coach is such an important role. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the offseason.

[ctk232]

7 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

Position-wise where do they find new starters?

 

based off the end of this year those players would be

 

LT- Dawkins

LG- Miller

C-Bodine

RG- Teller

RT- Mills

 

Dont know why, but I think they’ll try to get Mills to re-sign. Looking around the league, he is an average RT, although he’s much better in the run than he is against the pass. 

 

But overall all I expect the emphasis to be much more on the inside of the offensive line. I see Miller and Bodine for sure being replaced, and the possibility of competition for Teller is strong as well.

 

im not saying they won’t try to improve the RT situation as well, I just think it will be someone who competes with Mills and doesn’t outright replace him. 

Let's be honest, the OL needs a major facelift at least at three positions. And while I enjoy the speculation, in reality, FA will ultimately shape our line and who stays and goes. While the reality is that we need OL in the draft, Beane likely won't draft OL by need unless it coincides with BPA as well, in the first. Where he looks to fill need is in FA, and it's more likely we're only able to fill one OL position with a top/average name, less likely two, and nearly improbable we land three. 

 

If we are looking to address the biggest needs along the OL specifically, it starts in the middle with Center. The majority of our OL resources should go to finding a stout replacement that can anchor the line, call assignments, and not get bull rushed on every pass rush...Paradis or Morse do seem to be the best options there, but depending on how much we pay to get a guy like that will affect our next priority, Guard. I like the thought of swinging Dawkins in at Guard and maybe Teller at the other - very mobile and physical guys that do better on interior schemes (based upon college careers), and maybe look to address Tackle instead. But whether or not FA goes that way will depend on whether we keep guys like Miller, Groy, Bodine, and Mills. 

 

But on a pure numbers standpoint, it's likely Mills ends up staying, and maybe Bodine or Groy for depth. If Miller somehow ends up staying or getting extended for cheap, I'm really hoping his regression was due to Castillo and can now get back on track to his rookie form.

 

Novel aside, I see our line going two ways next year, depending on who we pick up in FA, and if we end up drafting a guy as well:

 

Center and Guard addressed in FA:

LT - Dawkins/Draft Pick

LG - Teller

C - Paradis/Morse/FA

RG - Saffold/FA/(Potential for Dawkins depending on draft pick)

RT - Mills/Draft Pick

 

Center and Tackle addressed in FA:

LT - FA/Draft Pick

LG - Dawkins

C - Paradis/Morse/FA

RG - Teller

RT - Mills/Draft Pick

 

[TroutDog]

I believe it’s important to remember that this position group works in tandem and a couple of changes, as mentioned above, can help all improve. 

 

I am hoping, however, that we grab Jonah Williams from Alabama if he’s still there at 9. He will be a bookend for many years. 

[NewEraBills]

I think you work from the inside out.  So finding a great C is the most necessary IMO.  Because of familiarity with Daboll I wouldn't mind Ross Pierschbacher, Alabama.  The guy I would prefer though is Eldgton Jenkins.

[freddyjj]

Good topic OP!

 

Let me share my thoughts.  

 

A couple clarifying statements first:

1. LT is a high cost position and few alternatives (ie, not worth it) hitting the market.
2. C is a critical position in Bills Offensive scheme given how complicated it is.  Getting a Veteran who can both call schemes well (Bodine can) and physically dominate (Bodine can't)  might be a priority at OBD.  C is a less expensive position in FA.
3. Difference in LG and RG in Bills' scheme.  LG (remember Richie)  pulls more in Bills Offense.  Teller is barely athletic enough to hold up there and might be better served moving to RG as a result.
4. Dion Dawkins might be targeted to move to new position. (RT or LG).  I feel he would dominate at LG given movement skills.

So In my opinion, FA and the Draft may play out as follows:

1. Bills select an OT at top of draft and they play LT. (Jonah Williams targeted given familiarity with Daboll)
2. Dawkins is moved to LG and Teller to RG.  Both offer more at respective positions than prior starters.
3. FA used to find C and RT.  (Paradis, Morse at C.  Williams or James at RT).
4. Mills, Miller, Groy and Ducasse are allowed to leave.
5. Bodine, Boettger and McDermott kept as backups.

• Bills line would be as follows with 3 veteran starters, a 2nd year RG and rookie LT :
  • LT Jonah Williams / Greg Little
  • LG Dion Dawkins
  • C FA signee Paradis or Morse (Culley has insight on Morse given time in KC)
  • RG Teller
  • RT FA signee Daryl Williams (Carolina connection) Ju'waun James (MIA) or Cameron Fleming (DAL but was at NE with Daboll) .  All 3 are only 26 years old.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by freddyjj

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

9 minutes ago, freddyjj said:

Good topic OP!

 

Let me share my thoughts.  

 

A couple clarifying statements first:

1. LT is a high cost position and few alternatives (ie, not worth it) hitting the market.
2. C is a critical position in Bills Offensive scheme given how complicated it is.  Getting a Veteran who can both call schemes well (Bodine can) and physically dominate (Bodine can't)  might be a priority at OBD.  C is a less expensive position in FA.
3. Difference in LG and RG in Bills' scheme.  LG (remember Richie)  pulls more in Bills Offense.  Teller is barely athletic enough to hold up there and might be better served moving to RG as a result.
4. Dion Dawkins might be targeted to move to new position. (RT or LG).  I feel he would dominate at LG given movement skills.

So In my opinion, FA and the Draft may play out as follows:

1. Bills select an OT at top of draft and they play LT. (Jonah Williams targeted given familiarity with Daboll)
2. Dawkins is moved to LG and Teller to RG.  Both offer more at respective positions than prior starters.
3. FA used to find C and RT.  (Paradis, Morse at C.  Williams or James at RT).
4. Mills, Miller, Groy and Ducasse are allowed to leave.
5. Bodine, Boettger and McDermott kept as backups.

• Bills line would be as follows with 3 veteran starters, a 2nd year RG and rookie LT :
  • LT Jonah Williams / Greg Little
  • LG Dion Dawkins
  • C FA signee Paradis or Morse (Culley has insight on Morse given time in KC)
  • RG Teller
  • RT FA signee Daryl Williams (Carolina connection) Ju'waun James (MIA) or Cameron Fleming (DAL but was at NE with Daboll) .  All 3 are only 26 years old.

 

 

 

Honestly looks a lot better than what we got.  I'd probably be willing to hedge a bet that they may also draft a depth player in rounds 3-5.  The guys at number 5 should have to work their asses off to keep a job.

[TigerJ]

The only linemen I'm sure are staying are Dawkins and Teller.

[Mountain Man]

5 hours ago, Tatonka68 said:

 and draft Jonah Williams as OT. 

There is no way Williams makes it to 9

[freddyjj]

1 minute ago, Mountain Man said:

There is no way Williams makes it to 9

Lots of simulations have him dropping and he will if there is a run on QBs and Edge rushers - which there usually is.    .  2-3 of each would cause an OT to drop.  AZ, OAK, SF, Jets  and Lions need pass rushers.  OAK, JAGS, TB, Giants need a QB.

 

Williams won't go at  #1 to AZ as not a value pick at 1.  

 

It may be very likely he drops unless someone trades up to snag him ahead of us.

16 minutes ago, TigerJ said:

The only linemen I'm sure are staying are Dawkins and Teller.

And my scenario has them as only remaining starters.  We do have to field 53 and will need backups.  Of the current 9 roster players at OL, I suggest we keep 5 - and 3 are as backups.

[Dkollidas]

3 hours ago, ctk232 said:

Let's be honest, the OL needs a major facelift at least at three positions. And while I enjoy the speculation, in reality, FA will ultimately shape our line and who stays and goes. While the reality is that we need OL in the draft, Beane likely won't draft OL by need unless it coincides with BPA as well, in the first. Where he looks to fill need is in FA, and it's more likely we're only able to fill one OL position with a top/average name, less likely two, and nearly improbable we land three. 

 

If we are looking to address the biggest needs along the OL specifically, it starts in the middle with Center. The majority of our OL resources should go to finding a stout replacement that can anchor the line, call assignments, and not get bull rushed on every pass rush...Paradis or Morse do seem to be the best options there, but depending on how much we pay to get a guy like that will affect our next priority, Guard. I like the thought of swinging Dawkins in at Guard and maybe Teller at the other - very mobile and physical guys that do better on interior schemes (based upon college careers), and maybe look to address Tackle instead. But whether or not FA goes that way will depend on whether we keep guys like Miller, Groy, Bodine, and Mills. 

 

But on a pure numbers standpoint, it's likely Mills ends up staying, and maybe Bodine or Groy for depth. If Miller somehow ends up staying or getting extended for cheap, I'm really hoping his regression was due to Castillo and can now get back on track to his rookie form.

 

Novel aside, I see our line going two ways next year, depending on who we pick up in FA, and if we end up drafting a guy as well:

 

Center and Guard addressed in FA:

LT - Dawkins/Draft Pick

LG - Teller

C - Paradis/Morse/FA

RG - Saffold/FA/(Potential for Dawkins depending on draft pick)

RT - Mills/Draft Pick

 

Center and Tackle addressed in FA:

LT - FA/Draft Pick

LG - Dawkins

C - Paradis/Morse/FA

RG - Teller

RT - Mills/Draft Pick

 

I’m hoping for the most part that you’re right. 

 

I could see them going after a bigger name tackle though. With Darryl Williams being hurt most (or all?) OG this season, he might not get big offers from most teams, whereas Beane & McDermott know his history from being in Carolina.

 

I definitely think Morse or Paradis end up here. Paradis: Denver seems to be in that “middle ground”... too good to tear down, not good enough to be a contender. 

Morse: Kansas City has been paying some big time players and has more to pay in Dee Ford and others in the next couple with Mahomes & Tyreek Hill soon enough. 

 

Ramon Foster & Saffold are the top two guards I’ve seen out there. I wonder if Foster is fed up with the antics in Pittsburgh and maybe is looking for an organization with a better room to be in as Pittsburgh obviously has their fair share of issues.

 

Regarding the draft, I see Buffalo trading down. There’s high end Pass rusher talent all over the draft, I think Williams and Little could get taken before Buffalo Picks. I could see Haskins, Little, Williams and 5 Defensive players going in the top-8, leaving us with maybe the 6th best defensive player, or a chance to move down as quarterbacks always get taken too early, and Cincinnati, Miami & Washington are all teams that could need QB’s right behind the Broncos who could also need a QB ( and whom we pick directly in front of). 

 

Trading down and garnering extra picks, I could see us drafting 2 linemen in the first 3 rounds, and then if we have two other picks in the first three rounds, using those in skill position players. I would also see them grabbing guys that are versatile in where they can play on the line. All of the Wisconsin guys interest me a great deal. The team didn’t play as well as many expected but they have four guys that could go in the first three rounds and they’re almost all pretty versatile and have lined up at guard & tackle (Dieter has played every position I believe, and I think McDermott appreciates that type of versatility).

 

if we could get three free agent linemen (starting tackle, starting center, guard for competition to start) and supplement that with two young linemen that can line up at guard and tackle, I’d be thrilled.

 

LT- Dawkins & 3rd Round Pick

LG- 2nd Round Pick & UFA depth

C- UFA & Bodine

RG- Teller & UFA compete 

RT- UFA & McDermott 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Dkollidas

[ctk232]

14 minutes ago, Dkollidas said:

I’m hoping for the most part that you’re right. 

 

I could see them going after a bigger name tackle though. With Darryl Williams being hurt most (or all?) OG this season, he might not get big offers from most teams, whereas Beane & McDermott know his history from being in Carolina.

 

I definitely think Morse or Paradis end up here. Paradis: Denver seems to be in that “middle ground”... too good to tear down, not good enough to be a contender. 

Morse: Kansas City has been paying some big time players and has more to pay in Dee Ford and others in the next couple with Mahomes & Tyreek Hill soon enough. 

 

Ramon Foster & Saffold are the top two guards I’ve seen out there. I wonder if Foster is fed up with the antics in Pittsburgh and maybe is looking for an organization with a better room to be in as Pittsburgh obviously has their fair share of issues.

 

 

I would hope Saffold falls into the same boat as Morse with upcoming contracts in LA, it's likely they look to either restructure an offer for him if they want to keep him, or cut ties with what's coming up in the next year or two. Either way, with a good amount of teams looking to strengthen their OL after this year, and some also for their newly found rookie QB (i.e. Zona, Jets, even Houston, Tennessee, and Carolina) we will likely end up paying more for any OL guys we bring in, than they will ultimately be worth. As FA goes.

Edited January 3, 2019 by ctk232

[Socal-805]

 

This was THE worst O_line in the league.  I don't think there is a wrong answer here.

 

Keep Dawkins -

 

Get a true Center - free agent - and build from there.

 

 

[Boatdrinks]

I’d try to upgrade at RT, C, then G. Some may have to be retained out of necessity. Bodine seems a decent backup C / swing G. Mills is very average, but elite Tackles rarely hit free agency. Any good FA OL will take a massive overpayment to sign. That’s the reality of OL play in the NFL right now.