LSHMEAB Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: The difference is....Jackson cant take the hits like Josh does.... And yet Allen has missed a month with injury and LJ has not been hurt. Carson Wentz is a big, strapping dude who can "absorb" hits and he's been hurt 2 years in a row. It's folly to assume a guys size precludes him from injury. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: And yet Allen has missed a month with injury and LJ has not been hurt. Carson Wentz is a big, strapping dude who can "absorb" hits and he's been hurt 2 years in a row. It's folly to assume a guys size precludes him from injury. LJ took a shot this week that had him down on the ground....did you miss it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Josh Allen with a tan 21 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said: How about a Marrone / Tyrod Taylor reunion? snicker snicker. They were never together 13 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: The difference is....Jackson cant take the hits like Josh does.... Um, John! Maybe next time, let’s not talk about other QBs getting hurt. Bad mojo! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: The difference is....Jackson cant take the hits like Josh does.... Jackson is too (relatively) frail to take his beatings. Even Josh will eventually crack too if he keeps taking (often late) hits, though I do like the way he’s learned to slide and go OB. What burns me is the way he doesn’t get the same level of protection IN the pocket and after the ball is realsed that somebody named....say.... Tom Brady does. They’d be bounced from the league for some of those things that don’t even get flags at times. And they way they target him, it seems like they’re fine to take the 15 yard penalty! It feels like part of the game plan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, Augie said: Jackson is too (relatively) frail to take his beatings. Even Josh will eventually crack too if he keeps taking (often late) hits, though I do like the way he’s learned to slide and go OB. What burns me is the way he doesn’t get the same level of protection IN the pocket and after the ball is realsed that somebody named....say.... Tom Brady does. They’d be bounced from the league for some of those things that don’t even get flags at times. And they way they target him, it seems like they’re fine to take the 15 yard penalty! It feels like part of the game plan. It’s the Cam Newton treatment. Mobile qbs don’t get the same safety as pocket guys. I remember a season opener where Cam took multiple headshots with no penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s the Cam Newton treatment. Mobile qbs don’t get the same safety as pocket guys. I remember a season opener where Cam took multiple headshots with no penalties. I get most of the hits when they run, but when you’re in the pocket, you’re the same as Brady, or Brees, or anyone else! Maddening, I tell you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I’m interested in how Jackson plays against a better defence. I was not a fan of his in the predraft process. I thought he would have success against bottom 10 defences because they couldn’t handle his running ability but would really struggle is his running game was taken away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 With our cap space, can we do a Brock like deal. We will take the salaries of Flacco and Bortles for 2 seconds and a third. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Augie said: I get most of the hits when they run, but when you’re in the pocket, you’re the same as Brady, or Brees, or anyone else! Maddening, I tell you!!! Oh, I agree. It’s BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 4 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s the Cam Newton treatment. Mobile qbs don’t get the same safety as pocket guys. I remember a season opener where Cam took multiple headshots with no penalties. yeah but they are not supposed to be taking the hits IN the pocket.....these refs are horrible 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, billspro said: I’m interested in how Jackson plays against a better defence. I was not a fan of his in the predraft process. I thought he would have success against bottom 10 defences because they couldn’t handle his running ability but would really struggle is his running game was taken away. It’s worth pointing out he has better passing numbers than Allen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Wow, there is a serious "changing of the guard" going on in the NFL right now. Very soon Eli, Brady, Brees, Rivers Stafford and Big Ben will be gone as well. In the “olden days” (you know, like maybe a decade ago?), a lot of these guys would be gone already. Blanda was the exception! Guys didn’ty play this long, but between training, nutrition, and the league dressing them in skirts, it’s a brave new world! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s worth pointing out he has better passing numbers than Allen. Pointing out that fact makes you a big time HATER! Josh Allen is a world class passer and Lamar Jackson is a scatback! 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s worth pointing out he has better passing numbers than Allen. Yes but if you watch the games Allen is completing a lot more NFL type throws against very good defences. I believe Jackson has played all bottom 5 defences and is still struggling with passing with a much better supporting cast than Allen. I don’t know if any of our offensive players would start on the Ravens. Maybe McCoy? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, buffaloboyinATL said: Wow, there is a serious "changing of the guard" going on in the NFL right now. Very soon Eli, Brady, Brees, Rivers Stafford and Big Ben will be gone as well. I'm getting old. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: yeah but they are not supposed to be taking the hits IN the pocket.....these refs are horrible I think we all agree on THAT! Brady is the Coach K of the NFL. Whine enough, and you become the boss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said: Pointing out that fact makes you a big time HATER! Josh Allen is a world class passer and Lamar Jackson is a scatback! The stats are the stats. I don’t think anyone would want Jackson over Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, HOUSE said: Was never a Joe Flacco fan. Baltimore drafted a QB high for a reason defenses will figure out jackson just like every other new trend. flacco will lead another team to a conference championship. either he or carr will be a jag. question is what do the bucs and giants/redskins do? i don't see either flacco or carr changing confs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, billsredneck1 said: defenses will figure out jackson just like every other new trend. flacco will lead another team to a conference championship. either he or carr will be a jag. question is what do the bucs and giants/redskins do? i don't see either flacco or carr changing confs. You do realize that our QB has really only succeeded running the ball, correct? Will he be "figured out?" This thread is starting to get weird. Edited December 12, 2018 by LSHMEAB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...could be a package deal with Harbaugh............ I think Harbaugh has seen more than enough of Joe to last his career. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 3 minutes ago, billspro said: Yes but if you watch the games Allen is completing a lot more NFL type throws against very good defences. I believe Jackson has played all bottom 5 defences and is still struggling with passing with a much better supporting cast than Allen. I don’t know if any of our offensive players would start on the Ravens. Maybe McCoy? I mean I guess. Allen certainly has the stronger arm but they are both flawed passers. I think our fans are quicker to point out Jackson’s flaws than Allen’s. When in fact, they are both pretty flawed. and the Ravens’ receiving core is nothing special. Crabtree is washed and John Brown has had one good year. 4 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said: defenses will figure out jackson just like every other new trend. flacco will lead another team to a conference championship. either he or carr will be a jag. question is what do the bucs and giants/redskins do? i don't see either flacco or carr changing confs. Do you think the same way about Allen? Because they are playing very similarly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 13 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s worth pointing out he has better passing numbers than Allen. what's it worth, your 2 cents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: You do realize that our QB has really only succeeded running the ball, correct? Will he be "figured out?" This thread is starting to get weird. i would expect this from you....so as you were.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said: i would expect this from you....so as you were.. Facts are stubborn things, aren't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I mean I guess. Allen certainly has the stronger arm but they are both flawed passers. I think our fans are quicker to point out Jackson’s flaws than Allen’s. When in fact, they are both pretty flawed. and the Ravens’ receiving core is nothing special. Crabtree is washed and John Brown has had one good year. Do you think the same way about Allen? Because they are playing very similarly. I don’t see the similarities at all. I think Allen will be a top 10 QB next year and a top 5 the year after. I am very excited about the progress I have seen watching the games. The amount of big time accurate throws by Allen on third down is very encouraging. We haven’t seen that in Buffalo in a long time. I haven’t seen anything close to that from Jackson. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 8 minutes ago, billspro said: The stats are the stats. I don’t think anyone would want Jackson over Allen. I had them very similarly rated coming out and they have played very similar. Allen “looks” more like the prototype qb but at some point, people are going to need to stop blaming his below average accuracy on every on else on the team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, C.Biscuit97 said: I had them very similarly rated coming out and they have played very similar. Allen “looks” more like the prototype qb but at some point, people are going to need to stop blaming his below average accuracy on every on else on the team. Also, the accuracy thing is way over blown. He needs to work on his accuracy from 0-5 yards. Other than that it has been solid. He won’t ever be Drew Brees accurate but can easily be Big Ben accurate. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsredneck1 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said: Facts are stubborn things, aren't they? facts? maybe you overwhelmed me with them. give me some time to digest them... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, billspro said: I don’t see the similarities at all. I think Allen will be a top 10 QB next year and a top 5 the year after. I am very excited about the progress I have seen watching the games. The amount of big time accurate throws by Allen on third down is very encouraging. We haven’t seen that in Buffalo in a long time. I haven’t seen anything close to that from Jackson. But you’re a Bills fan. In reality, they have been very similar. I want you to be right. But our guy has thrown 5 td passes and 9 ints and a 62 QBs rating. Jackson has 4 td passes to 3 ints and a 79.9 qb rating. Again, I want Allen to be the guy but why is one guy just getting dismissed? Especially a guy who was much, much, much better in college against much harder competition. and I would take Allen over Jackson, but man, it’s a lot closer at this point than some Bills fans want to admit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, C.Biscuit97 said: But you’re a Bills fan. In reality, they have been very similar. I want you to be right. But our guy has thrown 5 td passes and 9 ints and a 62 QBs rating. Jackson has 4 td passes to 3 ints and a 79.9 qb rating. Again, I want Allen to be the guy but why is one guy just getting dismissed? Especially a guy who was much, much, much better in college against much harder competition. and I would take Allen over Jackson, but man, it’s a lot closer at this point than some Bills fans want to admit. Allen was definitely more of a project coming out. I graded him as more of a round 2 prospect but he has exceeded my expectations by a lot. I could be wrong, I spend a lot of time watching QBs though. We should find out the next three weeks. I think we are going to see Allen take a step the last three games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, billspro said: Also, the accuracy thing is way over blown. He needs to work on his accuracy from 0-5 yards. Other than that it has been solid. He won’t ever be Drew Brees accurate but can easily be Big Ben accurate. He has terrible completion % since high school. Fans (again, I get it) pretend like he is the only qb that has dropped passes. And Big Ben was like a 70% passer in college and dominant. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ben-roethlisberger-1.html Allen is super exciting but you need to be consistent to be great. You can’t just keep dismissing everything. Just now, billspro said: Allen was definitely more of a project coming out. I graded him as more of a round 2 prospect but he has exceeded my expectations by a lot. I could be wrong, I spend a lot of time watching QBs though. We should find out the next three weeks. I think we are going to see Allen take a step the last three games. Honestly, he’s been the guy I’d thought he be but he is definitely faster. I get why scouts like him. But how many 1st round guys become better in the pros than they were in college, especially a lower level one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: He has terrible completion % since high school. Fans (again, I get it) pretend like he is the only qb that has dropped passes. And Big Ben was like a 70% passer in college and dominant. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/ben-roethlisberger-1.html Allen is super exciting but you need to be consistent to be great. You can’t just keep dismissing everything. Honestly, he’s been the guy I’d thought he be but he is definitely faster. I get why scouts like him. But how many 1st round guys become better in the pros than they were in college, especially a lower level one? You need more evidence which is fine. We can restart the discussion in a few weeks when there is more information available. Edited December 12, 2018 by billspro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...LMAO.......Augieism 101.......heard this kid speak in a couple of pressers and............interesting to say the least.............. He has a hard southern drawl 1 hour ago, billsfan_34 said: Not the sharpest tool in the shed He's sharp enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: It’s worth pointing out he has better passing numbers than Allen. With better Protection Receivers Running Game 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...LMAO.......Augieism 101.......heard this kid speak in a couple of pressers and............interesting to say the least.............. Did you see the interview after his first extended game time, where Steve Tasker was trying to interview him on the sideline and Jackson kept interrupting the interview to exchange good wishes or words with various players on the opposing team? CF of an interview, but it was the funniest damn thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just now, John from Riverside said: With better Protection Receivers Running Game The guys who drafted Allen built his offense. They traded up to take Zay Jones in the 2nd round. They traded a 3rd for Benjamin. They picked Dawkins in the 2nd. They signed a $3 million backup rb to back up one of the highest paid rbs. I hope they both improve as passers. But it’s weird that one is considered a gimmick while one is just hurt by the lack of talent around him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, the skycap said: He has a hard southern drawl He's sharp enough Lets revisit once defenses get plenty of tape on him. Mr Jackson scored a 13 on the wonderlic- 20 is considered average- 10 is considered literate. Maybe he doesn’t test well, maybe he just had a bad day or maybe he isn’t intelligent which is needed to truly thrive as an NFL QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 hours ago, HOUSE said: Was never a Joe Flacco fan. Baltimore drafted a QB high for a reason Flacco did win a Super Bowl and came close a few other times. All downhill once he signed his new contract 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 A good landing spot in 2019 for Flacco would be the Denver. Then there’s about 5 IFs; Tampa Bay (if Winston is not retained), Miami (if Tannehill is cut loose), NY Giants (if Eli is cut), Washington (if Alex Smith doesn’t heal), or Arizona (if the team has soured on Rosen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 34 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said: Lets revisit once defenses get plenty of tape on him. Mr Jackson scored a 13 on the wonderlic- 20 is considered average- 10 is considered literate. Maybe he doesn’t test well, maybe he just had a bad day or maybe he isn’t intelligent which is needed to truly thrive as an NFL QB. I agree with all this, but I’d rather have a guy who is a savant at reading defenses and moving the matriculating the ball up the field than a guy who can do my calculus homework for me. (But I’m not sure this guy is either!). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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