Sean McDermott: "Culture Trumps Strategy" ?​​​​​​​

[Julio Hopkins]

5 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

What are you trying to say about him being the anti- McD?  You think McVay hasn't established a culture for his team?  I highly doubt that.  As for fans worrying about their cap situation and lack of picks, the've gone all in on winning this year or next year.  Then their team will get broken up, when they have to pay Goff and others.  And we'll see what happens to them then. 

 

I liked Sammy, wish he were still here.  But not at 15 million a year.  He's done nothing to support that.  And with the Chiefs in 4 games so far he has 14 catches for 176 yards and 1 TD.  That's just not enough production to merit the huge contract.

 

No, I think McVay understands how to build a winning team.  While McDermott's plan is essentially replace the previous regime's guys with my own guys.  You can keep preaching culture, but forgive me if I call bull **** when guys like Kelvin Benjamin are on the roster.  That's fine if you don't think Sammy is worth his contract, I'm gonna go with Andy Reid.    

 

We'll see what happens in two years, I personally believe McDermott will be gone after the 2020 season.  That said, I'm interested in what McVay/Snead do when Goff's contract is up.  

[Cripple Creek]

9 hours ago, NoSaint said:

Bright side: I think we might’ve given him a big free agent deal if we didn’t trade for him. He easily could’ve been a FA target next year but I think we let him walk now

You think? I hope that decision was made as Benjamin bitched out of multiple games.

[Bing Bong]

9 hours ago, NoSaint said:

A solid corner with a 2 year 1.8m contract is legit the type of things dreams should be made of for an nfl team. Instead, we almost paid Gaines/vontae a combined 2 year 6.8m

 

toss that $5m at a line upgrade, and the dareus/Starr savings at a WR (which also would’ve avoided the Coleman dead money) 

 

the ripples are always interesting to contemplate 

You didn't know any cap screw ups are all Whaley's fault huh? A non-process GM is the worst cap management GM you can ask for.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[zonabb]

This is the week I officially am throwing in the towel on McD. Gave him the benefit of the doubt for a season plus. I am a huge believer in good people and building around intelligence but I am laughing at this statement for its idiocy and ignorance. I was willing to put up with the monotone pressers because I don't care how he responds to their questions because as far as I am concerned they are owned nothing and neither are we. When was the last time we had a an open-questions weekly press conference from a private business in WNY other than the Bills? But watching this team's bad football (execution), bad scheme and coaching, and bad talent, I can honestly say they've lost me.

 

What he is saying when he says "culture" is about people and talent. I agree wholeheartedly that you don't fill your team with idiots and a-holes who put themselves before the team. But as a coach and leader, you should be able to deal with a few wayward and talented souls as long as you're a good leader and people either respect or follow you. And it appears to me their aversion to non-process guys has lead them to believe, falsely, that they ca win with culture alone, and that is the dumbest thing I've heard a coach stammer here in a long time. 

 

He is right about one thing, his strategy as a coach seems to take a backseat to all else. This is some bad talent playing a bad scheme on offense. It's the least progressive and creative football in the league. And Allen unfortunately is down with the ship for me too. Like the kid but all the culture in the world won't make this year a learning opportunity for him because he does not have the talent around him to actually learn and improve. And I think in all honesty, losing Eric Wood is the biggest loss for Allen's development. 

 

Titans 27-7

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Plenty of good coaches only pick players who fit their scheme. Belichick, for instance.

 

Ah.  But are you talking Belichick*** now, or Belichick*** when he took over Carroll's 8-8 Patriots and led them to 5-11 his first year?

 

I think if you cared to look carefully at the roster of the Pats back in those years and how they played, you'll find that Belichick indeed changed his scheme to fit the young players he had.  All the pruning he did was of older guys. 

 

If he brought in new guys, sure, they fit his scheme.

 

2 decades later sure, he picks players who fit his scheme. Why shouldn't he? 

That's the luxury you earn through 2 decades of success, where FA want to come to you and play for a proven winner.

 

A more persuasive analogy would be to look at what coaches and GMs who have recently turned teams around have done. 

Jaguars for example, or if that one is too painful, Rams or Eagles.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 hours ago, NoSaint said:

Heck, Sammy would still be in his option year, just like benjamin. So a little more there as Sammy was top 10 in the draft, but dareus instead of starr would’ve saved substantially. We would have more cap space I believe, without a formal double check. 

 

Don’t make the Sammy trade, and you likely don’t do the Darby trade - which again gives us a better player and cheap. 

 

Wed be down a 2nd round pick overall but have more cap and more talent. Could use a different pick for the allen trade and spend the cap space on a good vet to replace the missing draft pick (or have picked mahomes)

 

I accept there are differing opinions on some of these guys but this narrative floating around that there was absolutely no option for beane to run a different course irks me.

 

Bright side: I think we might’ve given him a big free agent deal if we didn’t trade for him. He easily could’ve been a FA target next year but I think we let him walk now

 

Sammy would be more expensive than Benjamin - his option was $13M as I recall.  So $4.5M difference - huh, the dead money on Coleman knocks that down to a wash.

 

But overall, your point is sound.  It's not that Sammy was "too expensive", objectively; we could have picked up his option, which might only have made him more attractive in a trade (see Benjamin, Kelvin).  But let's say the objective talent e v a l was he wasn't a fit here.  That's not a problem as a one-player e v a l.  The problem is that we let walk or traded away substantial WR talent, and totally failed to adequately replace it.

 

I don't think that was the plan.  I think that McDermott and Beane felt that Boldin, Matthews, Thompson, then Holmes, Benjamin >= Watkins, Woods, Goodwin

 

There are several points here:

1) questions about the current staff's ability to accurately assess offensive talent, as well as a player's mental state/commitment to the team & game (Boldin, Davis etc)

2) Benjamin came in to rave reviews from Beane about how the coaches and teammates would love him, his attitude, his work ethic.  Either this is a case of inability to accurately assess a guy or............context matters, and it's sort of futile to try to change a culture by bringing in "right-minded process guys". 

 

Just maybe, when you move "right minded process guys" into a situation where they don't feel their team has a fighting chance to win, they check out.

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

On 10/4/2018 at 5:23 AM, PIZ said:

Anyone in management should understand this quote.  You cannot have a successful strategy if your team members don't buy into your culture.  It never worked for my teams and I've been doing it for 18 years.  One bad team member can destroy your culture and in turn, destroy your strategy going forward.

 

 

My own theory is culture and leadership are overrated. 

 

The main goal for everyone is making money. 

 

For me to make money I have to show up and get results. You either have it or you don’t. 

 

Leadership and culture are overrated. 

Edited October 5, 2018 by Straight Hucklebuck

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

 

...at what point do we get beyond all of these labels, concepts, warm 'n fuzzy feel goods, or any other God forsaken distractions and get back to playing football?.....

[SoTier]

23 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

McVay built such a great bridge with Sammy they kept him for one year and weren't interested in resigning him.  Dareus has like 9 tackles in 4 games this year.  Gordon has played one game in NE and that means Belichick has built a bridge?  Watch that"bridge" crumble if and when Gordon screws up again.

 

Oh, and Milano?  Defensive player of the week two weeks ago.  I think a lot of teams would be happy to have him.

 

Finally, cap space.  They made a commitment to get out from under contracts that were weighing down the team.  Dareus being the prime example.  You don't give a huge contract to a guy half assing it through games.

 

Point 1: McVay tried to re-sign Watkins but KC offered more.

Point 2: One good game against a flat team doesn't make a career.   Milano is nothing special, and I'll stand by my statement that he might not make the rosters of many NFL teams.

Point 3: The poster I questioned claimed that Pegula insisted on cutting cap commitments by the end of 2018.  I don't believe that's true in any form.  As I said, maybe Pegula wanted them to cut the amount the Bills actually spent on player salaries in 2018 and going forward, but that's not the same thing as "fixing the cap situation", whatever that means.

 

20 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Ah.  But are you talking Belichick*** now, or Belichick*** when he took over Carroll's 8-8 Patriots and led them to 5-11 his first year?

 

I think if you cared to look carefully at the roster of the Pats back in those years and how they played, you'll find that Belichick indeed changed his scheme to fit the young players he had.  All the pruning he did was of older guys. 

 

If he brought in new guys, sure, they fit his scheme.

 

2 decades later sure, he picks players who fit his scheme. Why shouldn't he? 

That's the luxury you earn through 2 decades of success, where FA want to come to you and play for a proven winner.

 

A more persuasive analogy would be to look at what coaches and GMs who have recently turned teams around have done. 

Jaguars for example, or if that one is too painful, Rams or Eagles.

 

,

Except that the Jags, Rams and Eagles new HCs all kept their teams' best players and built around them, so that would be the opposite of McDermott and Beane.  Hell, Marrone even  replaced Bortles as his starting QB during 2017 preseason IIRC in order to put him on notice to get his act together -- and he did.  And Dareus doesn't seem to have any trouble fitting into the Jags' "culture".

 

 

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

On 10/5/2018 at 4:07 AM, Ol Dirty B said:

 

ScottLaw

 

do we ignore those?

 

Yes. Yes we do.

 

[PlayoffsPlease]

I have enjoyed this thread but now am channeling my inner Al Davis and merging culture and strategy into a single concept. jus Win Baby 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, SoTier said:

Except that the Jags, Rams and Eagles new HCs all kept their teams' best players and built around them, so that would be the opposite of McDermott and Beane.  Hell, Marrone even  replaced Bortles as his starting QB during 2017 preseason IIRC in order to put him on notice to get his act together -- and he did.  And Dareus doesn't seem to have any trouble fitting into the Jags' "culture".

 

Yes, exactly. That's my point to the contention I was responding to, that all great coaches choose players to fit their scheme.

[GreatComeback]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes, exactly. That's my point to the contention I was responding to, that all great coaches choose players to fit their scheme.

 

People need to give Beane and McDermott some time.  It’s unfair to judge them so soon.  Let’s see what happens on year 3 after they have the chance to spend $100 million in Free Agency. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 10/5/2018 at 6:14 AM, oldmanfan said:

McVay built such a great bridge with Sammy they kept him for one year and weren't interested in resigning him.  Dareus has like 9 tackles in 4 games this year.  Gordon has played one game in NE and that means Belichick has built a bridge?  Watch that"bridge" crumble if and when Gordon screws up again.

 

Oh, and Milano?  Defensive player of the week two weeks ago.  I think a lot of teams would be happy to have him.

 

Finally, cap space.  They made a commitment to get out from under contracts that were weighing down the team.  Dareus being the prime example.  You don't give a huge contract to a guy half assing it through games.

 

You do realize that NTs don't prove their value by making tackles, right?  (the actual number is 17 I think)

 

I think the fair question raised is "why was MD half-assing it through games here, while right now he's playing 65% of the snaps on one of the best defenses in the NFL?"

I believe that the situation with McDermott had likely deteriorated enough that they decided their best alternative to move him, but again, that begs the question "why"?

 

Culture is not this fixed and immutable structure that you plonk players into.  The players make the culture and the players change in response to it.  The same guy who is rave reviews for his hard work and effort in Situation 1 can turn to dross in Situation 2.  Go reread what Beane had to say about Benjamin when we brought him in, and compare to what we see now.

 

 

[ProcessTruster]

On 10/3/2018 at 11:58 AM, Soda Popinski said:

It's pretty evident we can't win with the lack of talent on this roster.   I'm going t wait and see what he and Beane do this offseason.  If they get linemen and wrs, improve the defense and get rid of Peterman in favor of an actual QB at backup them I'm still trusting the process.     

 

But the process better start protecting the QB better and catching the ball. 

agree.  but  the Oline and WRs this year will pretty much be what they are.  once the $50M dead cap anvil is taken off their backs, you'll see the right players come on board next year, plus 10 draft picks.  Ralph, Doug W and Rex did a good job of bringing this franchise completely to its knees.   T-T-P. 

[PromoTheRobot]

16 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...at what point do we get beyond all of these labels, concepts, warm 'n fuzzy feel goods, or any other God forsaken distractions and get back to playing football?.....

 

2019 hopefully.

[ProcessTruster]

16 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...at what point do we get beyond all of these labels, concepts, warm 'n fuzzy feel goods, or any other God forsaken distractions and get back to playing football?.....

2019.  this year is just a big long training and tryout camp.  $50m in dead cap space will do that

[oldmanfan]

59 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You do realize that NTs don't prove their value by making tackles, right?  (the actual number is 17 I think)

 

I think the fair question raised is "why was MD half-assing it through games here, while right now he's playing 65% of the snaps on one of the best defenses in the NFL?"

I believe that the situation with McDermott had likely deteriorated enough that they decided their best alternative to move him, but again, that begs the question "why"?

 

Culture is not this fixed and immutable structure that you plonk players into.  The players make the culture and the players change in response to it.  The same guy who is rave reviews for his hard work and effort in Situation 1 can turn to dross in Situation 2.  Go reread what Beane had to say about Benjamin when we brought him in, and compare to what we see now.

 

 

Leaders define the culture.  Employees decide to embrace the culture or not.  Those who don't leave.  Those who do stay.

 

They tried to get Dareus on board.  From Marrone through McD ever coach did, and he kept fighting it.  Maybe Coughlin and Marrone (on his second tour of duty with Dareus) finally got it through his head that you either buy in and straighten up or your career is over.

[GreatComeback]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You do realize that NTs don't prove their value by making tackles, right?  (the actual number is 17 I think)

 

I think the fair question raised is "why was MD half-assing it through games here, while right now he's playing 65% of the snaps on one of the best defenses in the NFL?"

I believe that the situation with McDermott had likely deteriorated enough that they decided their best alternative to move him, but again, that begs the question "why"?

 

Culture is not this fixed and immutable structure that you plonk players into.  The players make the culture and the players change in response to it.  The same guy who is rave reviews for his hard work and effort in Situation 1 can turn to dross in Situation 2.  Go reread what Beane had to say about Benjamin when we brought him in, and compare to what we see now.

 

 

 

From all reports and from trusted players like Eric Wood and Kyle Williams there is a good culture in place.  

 

Moving on from Marcel and Sammy were certainly the right moves for many reasons.  The Bills signed Marcel when he was a top DT and his play deteriorated since 2015.  By the way your argument about him doesn’t hold value either.  For his contract, he should be playing more than 65% of the snaps.  He’s just not worth his deal.  

 

Many fans have no clue what it takes to build a successful NFL franchise.  I think it’s time to give these guys a break.

1 hour ago, ProcessTruster said:

agree.  but  the Oline and WRs this year will pretty much be what they are.  once the $50M dead cap anvil is taken off their backs, you'll see the right players come on board next year, plus 10 draft picks.  Ralph, Doug W and Rex did a good job of bringing this franchise completely to its knees.   T-T-P. 

 

I agree with you.  The second guessing of the Bills fan base is off the charts

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, FrankReichComeback#14 said:

From all reports and from trusted players like Eric Wood and Kyle Williams there is a good culture in place.  

 

Eric Wood isn't in the locker room any more.  Kyle Williams is, but what do you expect him to say publically other than "we're working hard, we've got to do better" boilerplate?  You can't judge culture by what team leaders say to the press.

 

Others with some gouge have said there was fear in the locker room after the Chargers game and guys who were known problems, were being problems to others.  That's rumor, but if the culture is so great

-Why has the D come out flat in 3 of 4 games?

-What about the on again/off again effort from the OL (independent of blocking scheme or assignment issues)?

-How do you explain Benjamin, extolled by Beane as a hard worker, team guy the coaches will love at the time of the trade and now visibly slacking to the point where McDermott has publically called him on it (not just talking drops, talking the effort in route running, effort in blocking, that "hands" team on ST joke)?

 

1 hour ago, FrankReichComeback#14 said:

Moving on from Marcel and Sammy were certainly the right moves for many reasons.  The Bills signed Marcel when he was a top DT and his play deteriorated since 2015.  By the way your argument about him doesn’t hold value either.  For his contract, he should be playing more than 65% of the snaps.  He’s just not worth his deal.  

 

You're correct that Dareus play fell off under Rex and stayed low under McDermott.  No one is arguing whether or not Dareus play fell off.  The point is, to build a great team, other coaches take guys who are already on the roster and can play and get them to buy in and turn it on.  We actually saw that with Dareus going from Wannstache/Gailey to Pettine then Schwartz/Marrone.  The fact is Dareus is currently contributing strongly to a top defense, arguing he's still capable of playing at a high level, just wasn't motivated here.

 

I am vastly amused by people telling me my arguments don't hold value when actually, they don't know the facts themselves.  Let's have a look at top NT salaries:

 

Now let's look at snap counts (note this source differs from PFR, everyone is lower - offered for comparison purposes)

Cox 56%

Atkins 54%

Kawann Short 37%

Marcell Dareus 42%

Malik Jackson 46%

Gerald McCoy 57%

Linval Joseph 54%

Tim Jernigan NFI, has not played

Star Lotulelie 34%

Dontari Poe 36%

 

So right away we see Dareus is playing # snaps right in line with the two guys flanking him in salary

 

1 hour ago, FrankReichComeback#14 said:

Many fans have no clue what it takes to build a successful NFL franchise.  I think it’s time to give these guys a break.

I agree with you.  The second guessing of the Bills fan base is off the charts

 

I find this ironic under the circumstances.

 

 

[GreatComeback]

4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Eric Wood isn't in the locker room any more.  Kyle Williams is, but what do you expect him to say publically other than "we're working hard, we've got to do better" boilerplate?  You can't judge culture by what team leaders say to the press.

 

Others with some gouge have said there was fear in the locker room after the Chargers game and guys who were known problems, were being problems to others.  That's rumor, but if the culture is so great

-Why has the D come out flat in 3 of 4 games?

-What about the on again/off again effort from the OL (independent of blocking scheme or assignment issues)?

-How do you explain Benjamin, extolled by Beane as a hard worker, team guy the coaches will love at the time of the trade and now visibly slacking to the point where McDermott has publically called him on it (not just talking drops, talking the effort in route running, effort in blocking, that "hands" team on ST joke)?

 

 

You're correct that Dareus play fell off under Rex and stayed low under McDermott.  No one is arguing whether or not Dareus play fell off.  The point is, to build a great team, other coaches take guys who are already on the roster and can play and get them to buy in and turn it on.  We actually saw that with Dareus going from Wannstache/Gailey to Pettine then Schwartz/Marrone.  The fact is Dareus is currently contributing strongly to a top defense, arguing he's still capable of playing at a high level, just wasn't motivated here.

 

I am vastly amused by people telling me my arguments don't hold value when actually, they don't know the facts themselves.  Let's have a look at top NT salaries:

 

Now let's look at snap counts (note this source differs from PFR, everyone is lower - offered for comparison purposes)

Cox 56%

Atkins 54%

Kawann Short 37%

Marcell Dareus 42%

Malik Jackson 46%

Gerald McCoy 57%

Linval Joseph 54%

Tim Jernigan NFI, has not played

Star Lotulelie 34%

Dontari Poe 36%

 

So right away we see Dareus is playing # snaps right in line with the two guys flanking him in salary

 

 

I find this ironic under the circumstances.

 

 

 

You make a few good points but from what a I can gather you seem to be extremely down on McDermott and Beane.  You want to criticize what, in your opinion, are bad moves yet you are reluctant to give them the appropriate amount of praise.  Just seems like a lot of confirmation bias and not very fair takes.  

 

Also for you to discredit Eric Wood who still has many connections in the organization and to say “Kyle is just towing the company line,” on culture is extremely disrespectual to both veterans.  You are a fan who watches games from home and you have no idea what the culture of the lockerom is like.  I will take guys for Wood, Kyle, Shady and others who have given us no reason to think that anything they say is “boilerplate.”  Those players are actually there - you are not.  

 

In my opinion, if you are going to criticize any of the moves of this administration decisions like parting with Marcel Is fairly small.  LGiven his contract and his attitude, I think it wasn’t a good move getting him off the team.  Bottom line - he wasn’t producing.  Happens all the time.

 

If you want to fault anyone, it should be The Pegulas.  When the hired McDermott they should have fired Whaley and started fresh with a new GM.  Instead they kept Whaley and his crew around as lame ducks to protect the scouting work they had done.  IMO I think this was a result of Terry’s friendship with Doug.  He kept him around until after the draft.  

 

This was a bad call as it left McDermott to call the shots in personnel.  While I am very pleased with him as HC, he is not a GM.  You can argue that he made a few blunders in terms of the screwing up the compensation formula by signing MOR veterans,  not picking up the 5th year option on Sammy, and a few other choices.  

 

The bigger question mark is, what would Beane have done at QB in the draft had he been hired in Jan?  Does he take Mahomes or Watson?  

 

I dont blame McDermott for punting on QB.  He knows a big decision like that is a bit above his pay grade and he didn’t trust Whaley to pick his QB for him.

 

Again, I will preach.  Let the pros do their job. Give them time.

 

 

[liverpoolkev]

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 2:09 PM, John from Riverside said:

I have absolutely no idea how anyone can make a comparison between the two

 

McD.....commands respect and his players play for him

 

Gregg Williiams.....I bet there are players on his own team that would love the kick the **** out of him

1

1

McD.....commands respect and his players play for him; that's why they are constantly getting embarrassed. The people that he shipped out, for the most part, was the playmakers that couldn't stomach his bull crap.....  for  I would rather have the Rams culture Woods is going very nice there or maybe KC culture I would even take Jacksonville culture with freakin Blake Bortles. Marcel is doing very well there. Fact is MCBEAN was a bad hire his offensive and defensive staff is a joke. His scouting dept leaves a lot to be desired his trades has been unnecessary to say the least.

He is way over his head, which I feared ......He will go down in flames like his; love for Peterman  Another black eye for the Palugas ......please stick to whatever business you guys were in before football/hockey......you guys are terrible at assessing coaching/GM talent 

Edited October 6, 2018 by liverpoolkev
spelling

[Victory Formation]

9 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You do realize that NTs don't prove their value by making tackles, right?  (the actual number is 17 I think)

 

I think the fair question raised is "why was MD half-assing it through games here, while right now he's playing 65% of the snaps on one of the best defenses in the NFL?"

I believe that the situation with McDermott had likely deteriorated enough that they decided their best alternative to move him, but again, that begs the question "why"?

 

Culture is not this fixed and immutable structure that you plonk players into.  The players make the culture and the players change in response to it.  The same guy who is rave reviews for his hard work and effort in Situation 1 can turn to dross in Situation 2.  Go reread what Beane had to say about Benjamin when we brought him in, and compare to what we see now.

 

 

That's when it helps to have a coach who can manage personalities well. Being an NFL coach requires a bit of insight into psychology, it's not that X personality is bad, it's about how can I communicate with him in a way that's going to get through to him.

 

You have to wonder about McD's mediation skills when even his own guy (Kelvin Benjamin) does not want to be here.

 

Once again, different personality types are NOT a bad thing if you can manage them, it's actually a really good thing. Coach McD could benefit on a few psychology courses in the offseason, I think he could benefit from it.

 

 

[NoSaint]

9 hours ago, FrankReichComeback#14 said:

 

People need to give Beane and McDermott some time.  It’s unfair to judge them so soon.  Let’s see what happens on year 3 after they have the chance to spend $100 million in Free Agency. 

 

Flip side- better believe in them after 2 years to give them such an important offseason. Can’t be a total write off year this year, though pains are obviously expected 

[BADOLBILZ]

On 10/4/2018 at 10:56 PM, K-9 said:

Folks aren't appreciating the depths to which the relationship between Dareus and McBeane had deteriorated. A divorce was inevitable and I'm not sure it was as easy to just have him hang around as some might think. Especially in light of a new staff with new standards, etc. trying to establish a certain order. 

 

Agreed that McDermott and Co. went well out of their way to create an untenable situation with Dareus.

 

Even vanilla-Bill-shill Chris Brown was coming on the pregame in PRESEASON and ripping Dareus with the obvious blessing of McBeane.

 

And getting deeply personal........like "how does this guy who has lost so many people in his life not want to be a better teammate?".

 

It was getting absurd.

 

McD was determined to cast a dominant shadow over this roster at any personnel cost.

 

But things change quickly in the NFL.......and winning and time change relationships.

 

Somehow despite this "bad" relationship Dareus' was proving to be a one man run defense in helping the Bills to a 5-2 start.

 

Been a lot of bad relationships on teams that went on to great success that were mended or managed with time and winning.

 

McD couldn't deal with it and while it may not be his WORST personnel move because there have been many bad ones....... it is the one most directly responsible for a ton of UGLY blowouts ever since.

[#34fan]

Let's see if this team's "culture" gets it spanked at home tomorrow.

[BADOLBILZ]

On 10/5/2018 at 3:51 PM, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...at what point do we get beyond all of these labels, concepts, warm 'n fuzzy feel goods, or any other God forsaken distractions and get back to playing football?.....

 

 

 

I know this much............nobody posts as much and is as consistently wrong as you.

 

Perhaps you like the culture at your job because you can post nonsense on TSW from your desk all day and it's allowed.?

 

The "every successful organization has to have great culture" stuff is UTTER nonsense in the real world.

 

Talent,  innovation and competitiveness are what drive company growth in the private sector............and it really doesn't matter that much how the company gets them.

 

Culture is often a shackle that allows competitors to undermine bigger companies.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, liverpoolkev said:

McD.....commands respect and his players play for him; that's why they are constantly getting embarrassed. The people that he shipped out, for the most part, was the playmakers that couldn't stomach his bull crap.....  for  I would rather have the Rams culture Woods is going very nice there or maybe KC culture I would even take Jacksonville culture with freakin Blake Bortles. Marcel is doing very well there. Fact is MCBEAN was a bad hire his offensive and defensive staff is a joke. His scouting dept leaves a lot to be desired his trades has been unnecessary to say the least.

He is way over his head, which I feared ......He will go down in flames like his; love for Peterman  Another black eye for the Palugas ......please stick to whatever business you guys were in before football/hockey......you guys are terrible at assessing coaching/GM talent 

 

 

The problem is that the Pegula's really don't know what they want.

 

There needs to be an organizational directive from ownership.

 

The Rams are an interesting situation because Kroenke stuck with Fisher for far too long........in part because of the team moving.........but after that time with Fisher he KNEW he did not want a play-not-to-lose defensive coach.

 

This is Pegula's first kick at that can.

 

It will be interesting to see if/when the heat starts for McBeane if they pull the same sh*t that Marrone and Rex did.........basically put Pegula on the spot and demand an extension or to be fired.

 

That kinda' behavior shows the lack of respect that Marrone and Rex had for the Pegula's.

 

TP is between a rock and hard place because he doesn't know anything about  building a winning football organization and everyone knows it.........so the first assumption is that any time he fires someone it's not a decision made from a place of keen perspective.

 

And he's effectively fired 2 HC's in 3 years (Marrone by not agreeing to his demands).

 

But at the same time he can see like everyone else that his team has been less than efficiently managed by Rex and McD.

 

That first hire was a critical one.........that's why people inside the NFL were recommending he hire a football Czar-type to make that decision rather than what happened.........getting duped by a tough-talking interviewee.

[oldmanfan]

33 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

I know this much............nobody posts as much and is as consistently wrong as you.

 

Perhaps you like the culture at your job because you can post nonsense on TSW from your desk all day and it's allowed.?

 

The "every successful organization has to have great culture" stuff is UTTER nonsense in the real world.

 

Talent,  innovation and competitiveness are what drive company growth in the private sector............and it really doesn't matter that much how the company gets them.

 

Culture is often a shackle that allows competitors to undermine bigger companies.

 

 

It's me who said the stuff about culture.  And you're nuts.  Culture defines who you are as a company.  No one yet in this board has been able to identify a successful company that does not care about culture.

56 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Agreed that McDermott and Co. went well out of their way to create an untenable situation with Dareus.

 

Even vanilla-Bill-shill Chris Brown was coming on the pregame in PRESEASON and ripping Dareus with the obvious blessing of McBeane.

 

And getting deeply personal........like "how does this guy who has lost so many people in his life not want to be a better teammate?".

 

It was getting absurd.

 

McD was determined to cast a dominant shadow over this roster at any personnel cost.

 

But things change quickly in the NFL.......and winning and time change relationships.

 

Somehow despite this "bad" relationship Dareus' was proving to be a one man run defense in helping the Bills to a 5-2 start.

 

Been a lot of bad relationships on teams that went on to great success that were mended or managed with time and winning.

 

McD couldn't deal with it and while it may not be his WORST personnel move because there have been many bad ones....... it is the one most directly responsible for a ton of UGLY blowouts ever since.

Do you recall the pictures of McD one on one with Dareus on the practice field in preseason?  Spending time with him one on one?  Don't give me this crap that he went out of his way to alienate him.  McD wants players focused on their job.  Dareus wasn't.  Your highest paid guy on your team can't be that guy.

 

If you are a Parcells you can treat a Lawrence Taylor differently because Taylor was completely there when the bell rang.  Dareus wasn't.  

1 hour ago, liverpoolkev said:

McD.....commands respect and his players play for him; that's why they are constantly getting embarrassed. The people that he shipped out, for the most part, was the playmakers that couldn't stomach his bull crap.....  for  I would rather have the Rams culture Woods is going very nice there or maybe KC culture I would even take Jacksonville culture with freakin Blake Bortles. Marcel is doing very well there. Fact is MCBEAN was a bad hire his offensive and defensive staff is a joke. His scouting dept leaves a lot to be desired his trades has been unnecessary to say the least.

He is way over his head, which I feared ......He will go down in flames like his; love for Peterman  Another black eye for the Palugas ......please stick to whatever business you guys were in before football/hockey......you guys are terrible at assessing coaching/GM talent 

Woods left as a free agent; he was not "shipped out".

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, FrankReichComeback#14 said:

You make a few good points but from what a I can gather you seem to be extremely down on McDermott and Beane.  You want to criticize what, in your opinion, are bad moves yet you are reluctant to give them the appropriate amount of praise.  Just seems like a lot of confirmation bias and not very fair takes.

 

Well, I'll give you props: at least you're polite and you're not talking about "haterade" or "negative nancies".

 

I'm more than happy to give McDermott and Beane praise for what good things they've done.  What would you like to see praised?

 

1 hour ago, FrankReichComeback#14 said:

Also for you to discredit Eric Wood who still has many connections in the organization and to say “Kyle is just towing the company line,” on culture is extremely disrespectual to both veterans.  You are a fan who watches games from home and you have no idea what the culture of the lockerom is like.  I will take guys for Wood, Kyle, Shady and others who have given us no reason to think that anything they say is “boilerplate.”  Those players are actually there - you are not.  

 

I used to know a guy who was a fully certified air traffic controller in ZTL - Atlanta Center, some of the busiest airspace in the world.  He used to refer to his immediate supervisors and the next level management guys as "Satan".  "Satan" would present himself to the public as one of the ranks (since they still worked traffic) and tell us "Staffing is Adequate, Morale is High, and Safety is Never Compromised".  Meanwhile, in front of the scopes, chronically sleep deprived guys working mandatory overtime would buy caller-ID to not answer the phone unless friends or families, because if they were contacted on a day off they had to come in.

 

But I digress.

 

In any kind of corporate structure with project teams and so forth, there are always people given leadership and PR roles by management.  Those people have those roles because they are trusted not to throw the organization or their teammates under the bus in public.  It would be highly naive to think they're talking without a filter. 

 

Disrespectful, Whatever. I hope for his own sake Wood is no longer intimately plugged into the daily life of the team.  For a guy forced to retire, that would be highly unhealthy.

 

You're damn straight, neither of us is in the locker room.  If you want to take what carefully-spoken veterans like KW or ex-players like Wood say as the whole story, your perogative.  But if the culture is great and everyone plugged in, how do you explain:

-Why has the D come out so flat in the first half of 3 of 4 games

     -spotting the Ravens 24 1st half points plus 3 on an INT

     -spotting the Chargers 28 first-half points without any INTs, fumbles, blocked punts, or other mishaps

     -spotting Green Bay 13 first half points plus 3 on an INT

-What about the on again/off again effort from the OL (independent of blocking scheme or assignment issues)? 

     -One play they hold, the next sees Mills and Miller being slung about like rags or Ducasse or Bodine being walked back into the QB.

-How do you explain Benjamin, extolled at the time of the trade by Beane as a hard worker, team guy the coaches will love and now visibly slacking to the point where McDermott has publically called him on it (not just talking drops, talking the effort in route running, effort in blocking, that "hands" team on ST joke)?

 

1 hour ago, FrankReichComeback#14 said:

In my opinion, if you are going to criticize any of the moves of this administration decisions like parting with Marcel Is fairly small.  LGiven his contract and his attitude, I think it wasn’t a good move getting him off the team.  Bottom line - he wasn’t producing.  Happens all the time.

 

The point is, if our culture is so great and Dareus just a washed-up bad apple, why is Dareus down in Jax producing?

Meanwhile Benjamin, whom Beane extolled when traded here, is now phoning it in at times to the point where even McDermott is starting to call him out publicly.

 

Might not make you go "hmmmmm".  Make me go "hmmmmm."

[GoodHands15]

On 10/3/2018 at 12:12 PM, LSHMEAB said:

I never really understood why "choir boy" was synonymous with virtue. I'm sure there's plenty of bad apples who once sang in a group.

 

An interesting mystery.

 

Because it sounds better than choir man/men?

 

Are choir boys synonymous with virtue or innocence?

 

 

Does innocence imply virtue?

.

.

.

I would hate to be a choir boy in 2018.

High risk. 

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, liverpoolkev said:

McD.....commands respect and his players play for him; that's why they are constantly getting embarrassed. The people that he shipped out, for the most part, was the playmakers that couldn't stomach his bull crap.....  for  I would rather have the Rams culture Woods is going very nice there or maybe KC culture I would even take Jacksonville culture with freakin Blake Bortles. Marcel is doing very well there. Fact is MCBEAN was a bad hire his offensive and defensive staff is a joke. His scouting dept leaves a lot to be desired his trades has been unnecessary to say the least.

He is way over his head, which I feared ......He will go down in flames like his; love for Peterman  Another black eye for the Palugas ......please stick to whatever business you guys were in before football/hockey......you guys are terrible at assessing coaching/GM talent 

He took at team that was nearly as devoid of talent and went to the playoffs last year

 

Which basically.....makes your take look clownish

[Hapless Bills Fan]

51 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The "every successful organization has to have great culture" stuff is UTTER nonsense in the real world.

Talent,  innovation and competitiveness are what drive company growth in the private sector............and it really doesn't matter that much how the company gets them.

Culture is often a shackle that allows competitors to undermine bigger companies.

 

I don't know that I agree with you here.  Culture, in reality, is the set of beliefs, assumptions and expectations that govern how people within an organization actually interact and behave.  Culture as spoken about by management, is often the expression of an aspirational set of values that are observed by the rank-and-file not to match behaviors that are in practice rewarded.

[GoodHands15]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

e point is, if our culture is so great and Dareus just a washed-up bad apple, why is Dareus down in Jax producing?

Meanwhile Benjamin, whom Beane extolled when traded here, is now phoning it in at times to the point where even McDermott is starting to call him out publicly.

 

Might not make you go "hmmmmm".  Make me go "hmmmmm."

Jags had a defined culture in place. Dareus was affordable due to them being in Super Bowl contention mode. Their build is almost finalized. He is not a leader but if he’s in a follower position he prolly balls out when he’s not the one setting expectations.

 

 

Taking 14.2 mil hit this year dead cap.

Creating a discipline based culture with younger guys is much easier when you don’t have a person of his personality type leading their attention.

 

Also. He’s off the books after 2018.

14.2 mil dead cap.

 

Star:

6.7 —2018

11.5 

10.1

10.8–2021

 

MD:

 

$9.925 million salary in 2018, as well as non-guaranteed salaries of $8.335 million (2019), $12.35 million (2020) and $12.4 million (2021)

 

Results on the field are one thing, but we don’t want to go into 2020 looking to pay a space eater 3.8 million more than another space eater. We want max cap power towards impact positions with our young studs now entering their 2nd-4th years. 

 

You need Calais Campbell, Ndimniche, Ramsey, Jack,  Bouye, Telvin Smith, Fournette, OFFENSIVE LINE, GOOD WR, and even a Bortles....before bringing in a Marcel Dareus to fill a small deficiency in run defense via trade to put your D from top 10 to top 3. 

 

Imo.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by GoodHands15

[Victory Formation]

53 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

He took at team that was nearly as devoid of talent and went to the playoffs last year

 

Which basically.....makes your take look clownish

Who's fault is that? He purged our roster of talent, be fair. Can't give him a free pass for having a bare cupboard when he's the guy that threw everything in the trash.

 

Can he lead men? Not every 6'5 300lb player is going to let a 5'8 150lbs coach control their every move. These guys aren't kids anymore, hell a lot of these guys have kids and families and tons of people relying on them. There will be lots of different characters, identities, humors, flaws and personalities and a good coach will see the good in his men and lead them, not trade them away for nothing!

[Big Gun]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

Culture defines who you are as a company.

No it doesn't.

 

You sound like a dumb corporate shill who blows hot air in meetings thinking you know everything because the company sent you to stupid culture classes.

[Victory Formation]

Give me Antonio Brown or OBJ ALL DAY LONG. I'd even take Terrell Owens in his prime, YOU BETCHA! Those guys are winners, definitely not culture guys but I'd want them on my team!

 

Ever see those dog show trainers that literally train dogs to the point where they lose their personalities and become robots? YUCK! That's what MCD wants!

 

Dez should have been in Buffalo 2 weeks ago!

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by NewDayBills

[liverpoolkev]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 5:32 AM, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's the fault of being still early in a rebuild ... a rebuild during which the owner exacted a promise to clean up the salary cap morass by the end of this year.

 

That dead cap space looks awful this year and terrific next year.

 

I personally don't see a lot of gaping holes on the defense. Certainly still room for improvement, but "gaping holes"? I don't see it on defense. On offense, yeah. That tends to happen, though, that a new coach prioritizes the side of the ball that he specializes in.

 

And yeah, Smith-Schuster would've been an improvement over Zay, or so it looks so far. But the rest of that draft looks damn good. Tre' White at #27? Dawkins in the 3rd, trading up to get him? Looks very smart in retrospect. Milano in the 5th? Even Peterman in the 5th might easily turn out to be a good pick if he ends up as a long-time backup, here or elsewhere, though it's far from sure that will happen. You can't blame them for the Zay Jones pick without also praising them for White, Dawkins and Milano. And that was all before Beane even came on board.

 

 

2

But the rest of that draft looks damn good. really? Tre' White at #27? instead, we could have stayed put at 10 and got either Watson or Mahomes.Thanks, McDermott.  I think I take a franchise QB over a DB any day of the week. Dawkins in the 3rd, trading up to get him? why was that a good move because Bean called McDermott to tell him his boss was thinking about him....This is what happens when you get rid of the draft board that the previous scouting staff sets up....You rely on your buddy from another team to call looks very dumb in retrospect. Milano in the 5th?   you got to be crazy Why do you think our run defense is so bad now he thought a  linebacker should play at a safety weight  like his glory days in Carolina   Peterman in the 5th might easily turn out to be his hang noose  like TOLBERT why is he still on the team  

[oldmanfan]

59 minutes ago, pop gun said:

No it doesn't.

 

You sound like a dumb corporate shill who blows hot air in meetings thinking you know everything because the company sent you to stupid culture classes.

I'm one who has lived it and developed it.  Your statement indicates you don't have a clue.  Instead of blowing hot air, answer the one question I have posed:  name one successful  organization that does not have a successful culture.